Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 405

Originally Posted by drhankz

My Philosophy about doing D2 upgrades is NEVER
do them when I can't pick up the phone and get
Nick to Answer

Originally Posted by dschamis

Bob - if you do this does that mean that the same music will also be playing on my Main speakers (unless I turn my power amps off)?

Originally Posted by yourlilbro

Also, I'am using a Prismasonic 1500R lens. When going through the scaling setup on the anthem, I put in Anamorphic stretch, but this does nothing to the letterbox movie, I also tried letterbox/pillarbox, and panoramic, All of this do nothing. Do I need that software update?

Now?

Thanks,
Farhan.

Originally Posted by yourlilbro

Plus, does anyone know why I can't seem to get into the OSD? Everytime I press setup it only comes out in my Anthem's front panel display.

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

Good plan. While you are waiting, what Audio Mode are you using in the Anthem? The Audio mode may limit what the Anthem can accept as incoming HDMI PCM.

In particular, make sure THX post processing is turned off.

You might need to use NONE for these odd input channel configurations, as the surround algorithms may depend upon either stereo or 5.1 input.
--Bob

Originally Posted by RROSEN

I don't suppose you have any way to connect the OPPO to another processor so see if you get the same issue?

I read on Secrets of Home Theater Oppo 98x write ups that they have an issue with bass management for any x.0 sources, but I don't see how that would cause the other channels to fail, it apparently just causes the LFE channel to not get fed any signal. Anything with x.1 works fine. I can't remember if this was a SACD only issue either, but like I said I don't really see how this is your cause, but worth a thought.

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

Yes, normally it does. Again, only the Main path can "process" digital audio inputs. And if you are using the Main path to process that for Zone 2, then you can't specify an alternate audio source for the Main path.

However each Zone has its own power on/off. I don't have a Zone 2 setup so I'm not sure what happens if you Copy Main -> Zone 2, select a Main path input device and then power off the Main path.

You can also Mute the Main path independently of Zone 2 (each path has it's own volume controls, and volume control happens after the digital audio is processed).
--Bob

Originally Posted by dschamis

I don't mean to complain, and I really do love my D2, but this seems crazy to me. How hard can it be to run Zone2 through a digital audio processor? I don't know about you guys but I don't have too many analog inputs these days.

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

For D2 owners:

I'm seriously considering getting a D2. I currently have a P5 and Sig 7.1 setup (S6/C5/ADP3/S2) with a PB13-Ultra. I'm using an Onkyo 905 right now, mostly as a pre-pro (and powering the ADP3's) but really like what I'm reading and what I've heard with the D2 (w/ ARC).

So - if you have the D2:
1) What are the top 1-3 things that would make you recommend getting one?
2) What are the top 1-3 things that you wish they would have done differently/added/removed?

Given the price, I'd like to make sure it's worth it, versus just changing over to an Integra 9.8 or something. (I know I'll also need 2 more amps to replace the 905.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

For D2 owners:

I'm seriously considering getting a D2. I currently have a P5 and Sig 7.1 setup (S6/C5/ADP3/S2) with a PB13-Ultra. I'm using an Onkyo 905 right now, mostly as a pre-pro (and powering the ADP3's) but really like what I'm reading and what I've heard with the D2 (w/ ARC).

So - if you have the D2:
1) What are the top 1-3 things that would make you recommend getting one?
2) What are the top 1-3 things that you wish they would have done differently/added/removed?

Given the price, I'd like to make sure it's worth it, versus just changing over to an Integra 9.8 or something. (I know I'll also need 2 more amps to replace the 905.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

The main gotchas for D2 purchasers are as follows:

1) It is HDMI V1.1. That isn't going to change via upgrade. If Anthem ever comes out with an HDMI V1.3 product (and out best intelligence to date is they haven't even BEGUN such a project) it will be a new product.

2) This means it will never have support for "Deep Color" nor for decoding TrueHD or DTS-HD MA bitstreams inside the D2. You will need to buy players that decode those internally to HDMI PCM. "Deep Color" is pretty much a non-issue as Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and HDTV formats do not allow content that contains "Deep Color".

3) It is limited to 5.1 channel input for Analog audio and for HDMI PCM. It can raise both of those to 7.1 speaker output, but you can't input more than 5.1.

4) Although it has 4 jacks for subwoofers, they all share the same signals and controls. There is no way to separately control the signal to the 4 subwoofers.

5) There is only one video processor. This means for example, you can't mix audio from an HDMI source with video from any other source because the video processor is tied up extracting the audio from the video stream coming in from the HDMI source.

6) Updates and custom installation remote control are via RS-232 serial connection as opposed to something more modern like ethernet or USB.

7) The Anthem dealer network is sparse and buying from a non-authorized dealer voids the warranty. You may have to travel to get to a dealer.

8) The video solution does not provide a means to "squeeze" video input streams. This is an issue for some folks setting up Constant Image Height projector systems who want to leave their anamorphic lens in place and have the Anthem squeeze normal 16:9 programming so that the lens doesn't make it look too stretched. Such folks need to be prepared to swap out their anamorphic lens for a normal lens when viewing normal (16:9 or 4:3) content.

9) There is only one HDMI output. If you want to drive more than one HDMI display you will need to do something with and external HDMI switch/splitter.

And that's about it.

On the upside, the audio and video quality is SPECTACULAR. The video processing is extraordinarily flexible -- comparable to the best standalone video specialty processors for home theater. With the addition of ARC the D2 also provides a world-class Room EQ solution.

Setup and operation are also very flexible. It is very rare that we've had a poster in this thread come up with a configuration problem that we couldn't solve (other than the folks who want to drive more than one HDMI display).

And Anthem's technical support is top notch. The best I've ever encountered for home theater products. This thread is chock full of examples of that. This is incredibly important given how immature the HDMI market is -- and Blu-Ray as well.

The D2 is, and remains, the single best home theater product purchase I've ever made.
--Bob

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

Thanks, this is great.

I have a great local dealer, where I got my current batch of items, so I'm good there.

"Deep Color" - Are you saying there isn't a source out there yet that supports sending deep color? I know I have my projector set this way, and it was calibrated this way. I was under the impression that the setting I configured on my HTPC also set it this way? If nothin now, what was it implemented for? But I'm not totally up to speed on this, so can you give me a little more detail, and/or shoot me a link?

I don't care about DTS-MA/HD or TrueHD decoding in the pre-pro, but I do care about multi-channel LPCM. Are you saying the D2 only supports 6-channel LPCM over HDMI, and not 8-channel? That's actually a potential big deal, as more and more BD are coming with 7.1 soundtracks (not many right now, but presumable we should be seeing more). Is this software/firmware upgradable, or a hardware limitation?

In terms of one HDMI out - does it support a second output over component, or even composite? If I wanted to have a small display in my rack area, does it support upping everything to HDMI, and at the same time sending everything to component or composite? Or is there only one path, digital or analog?

The constant-height thing could become an issue, but when I'm ready for a 2.4 screen, I'll need to upgrade my projector to one that makes it easier to switch formats via IR or something (my current VW60 might actually support it already).

Non-issues for me (now and as far out as I can see): 6-channel analog in, single sub control (although this might be an issue in the distant future, I can probably live with it or upgrade then), serial-port upgrades, ethernet (would be nice, but hardly a deal-killer).

Thanks again for the thorough response. If you can help a little more with my additional questions, that would be great!

Originally Posted by Kruginator

Bob,

I see you are a prolific poster in both the D2 and the Denon 3800 threads. Do you sleep?

Thanks for your contribution. I appreciate it because you have helped me in the past and your insights continue to help me grow my understanding of the details around this hobby.

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

Anyway, it is what it is. If separately selectable zone 2 digital audio is important to you then the D2 is not for you.
--Bob

Originally Posted by Ian_Currie

I have a question:

I had setup all my inputs to have mode=none when playing 6.0 sources. Today I thought I'd try using some of the modes (PLIIX etc) however, I cannot get my D2 to change modes.

I tried both the remote and the unit, hitting MODE followed by rotating the volume knob. I also tried power the unit on/off. I tried going into SETUP and changing the default mode for the current input. And I tried DD 5.1 versus uncompressed 5.1.

Am I missing something, or is there perhaps something wrong with the latest software - or specifically my machine?

Originally Posted by Ian_Currie

I thought I'd give this a gentle bump... and add some info. I *can* change the mode if the source is TOSLINK, but not if the source is HDMI.

If anyone has any info about this, I'd appreciate it, thanks.

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

The ONLY sources for "Deep Color" content at the moment are a new HD camcorder (Sony I believe), or computer graphics rendered on the fly from a special computer graphics card (note that this does NOT mean playing movie discs on an HTPC).

The Blu-Ray and HD-DVD disc specs don't support "Deep Color". There may be a NEW disc format in the future that adds it, but the contents of every "Blu-Ray" and "HD-DVD" disc are, and always will be "traditional color". The data on those discs is also recorded as YCbCr 4:2:0 (i.e., both the horizontal and vertical spatial color resolution are halved compared to gray scale spatial resolution). Basically they can't cram more color data into those formats without running afoul of the disk capacity and max bits per second disk read limits for the format.

Similarly, there is no "deep color" content for HDTV, SD-DVD discs, or SD-TV.

There have been various claims that video processors can take "traditional color" input and produce better "deep color" output by using the extra bits to hold what would otherwise be rounding errors in their processing. Although you can imagine cases where this would produce a measurable improvement, in real world video watching you can't really gain because you can't create information that wasn't in the source content to begin with. Rounding errors are ALREADY built into the source content.

NOTE HOWEVER: 10 or 12 bit (i.e., deep color) video processing INSIDE of devices -- whether video processors or TVs -- *IS* a good thing with real benefits. It is the step to where you are TRANSMITTING that color bandwidth over the HDMI V1.3 cables where things get kind of hand-wavy. Also Deep Color puts higher demands on HDMI cable quality, just like higher video resolution does.

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Yes, the D2 (and AVM-50) only support 6 channel (5.1) input for HDMI PCM, just as is the case for their multi-channel Analog inputs. The Anthems will "process" that up to 7.1 speaker output.

We have a poster here, FILMMIXER, who is in the business of making audio tracks for big budget, commercial movies. He has commented on this several times, basically to the effect that the result of feeding 5.1 into the Anthem and letting it produce 7.1 output is very good indeed -- often indistinguishable. But that there are some few films which are attempting to feature aggressive rear surround content in 7.1 tracks.

Personally, I think 7.1 content will be nothing much more than a novelty for quite some time -- quite possibly forever. Keep in mind that movie theaters aren't set up for 7.1 either.

Nevertheless, it is a true limit of the Anthems, and the Anthems will almost certainly NOT receive an upgrade to add 7.1 input. If that bothers you, then the Anthems are not for you.

NOTE: This is a bigger deal for cheaper AVRs that DON'T offer a good audio solution for raising 5.1 input to 7.1 speaker output. Keep in mind that the vast majority of the home theater market out there right now is 5.1 speakers or less, and commercial movies are produced accordingly. That means even 7.1 tracks are designed to work well in 5.1 speaker setups. And matrixing rear surround content into the side surround channels of a 7.1 track, specifically to help 5.1 input systems produce 7.1 speaker output, is still normal.

-------------------------------------

The Component output situation is complicated. First you can't get most HDMI sources out as Component due to copy protection.

You CAN "pass through" a Component source to the Zone 2 Component outputs while ALSO processing an HDMI source for the Main outputs. If you want these to be from the same device then you need a source that has both styles of output active simultaneously.

NOTE: Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have, in their specs and in every player, a restriction that can be activated by any movie disc that prohibits high def video output over Component whether or not you are also using HDMI. To date there are NO DISCS that activate this restriction, and there is no reason to believe the studios are going to activate that restriction for new movies any time soon. So right now, most of those players implement unrestricted Component simultaneous with HDMI. But just so you know...

Also, most HDTV set top boxes allow simultaneous Component and HDMI. But most upscaling SD-DVD players DO NOT! For SD-DVD players you will likely be limited to NO Component output (not even 480i or 480p) if you are using the HDMI output.

Finally, the Anthem only has one video processor. If you are using that to process HDMI video (scaling and such) for your Main display, then you can't separately process Component video for your Zone 2 display. Your choices are to have Zone 2 be a COPY of the Main input (either processed or unprocessed) or to be UNprocessed video from another source. And if you Copy the Main video processed, you can't separately control the processing for Zone 2. That means you can't scale Main to one resolution for you primary display and Zone 2 to another resolution for your secondary display for example.

Most people use Zone 2 by separately cabling Component from their sources and passing UNprocessed Component to their secondary display (which means scaling and such gets done inside the secondary display).

See Chapter 2 of the manual for details.
--Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

The modes that are actually available depend upon whether you have 7.1 speakers configured, whether THX post processing is turned on, and the type of audio input you are receiving.

Do you have Rear surround speakers configured in your system? If not, I believe your only choice may be whether THX is turned on or not.

The Audio Modes deal with raising a fewer number of input channels to a larger number of speaker output channels. If you have 6 channel input and a 5.1 speaker configuration, there is no work for those modes to do.
--Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

We here at "Bob Pariseau" attempt to provide quality service 24/7/365.

Sleep is overrated.

--Bob

Originally Posted by B&W700guy

You should have purchased the 9.8. For $500.00 more you could have gone Audyssey Pro. The 805 may have pro, but not sure. I think that would be Apples to Apples comparison.

Originally Posted by RROSEN

AbMagFab,

The D2 only accepts 5.1. In such a way as to react as if there were only 5.1 sent. So in effect from the D@'s perspective it doesn't recognize/see the 6th/7th channels of the 7.1 out from the source and only reads the 5.1 and matrix's the other two channels for it's own out.

There is no mapping or tweaking that cam get around this or I can assure you Bob would have detailed it

That said, I am in agreement with other posters (Bob included) where I really don't see this as an issue for two reasons. Firstly there isn't much content out there ATM and what there is and where there is likely to be in the near future are more likely to be marketing/bragging rights related that a significant trend towards universal adoption. Secondly the sounds amazing outputting 7.1 from 5.1 sources from my experiences. Just thinking of LOTR ROTK chapter 37: Battle of Pelennor Fields gives me goosebumps hahaa.

I also figure that the same engineers who encode that 7.1 track(s) will do everything in their power to ensure that you can pull a matrixed 7.1 from the 5.1 version that will sound as close as possible to the discreet 7.1 version as possible. This only makes sense as the vast majority of the audience will be processing the 5.1 version.

Hahaa, that said, what makes perfect sense to me strangely enough sometimes does not for the majority of others

Cheers,

Richard

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

The D2 will tell the player it can only accept up to 5.1 as HDMI PCM. What happens next depends on the player.

The player could refuse to offer the 7.1 track as an available sound track, it could send only the 5.1 subset portion of that 7.1 track, or it could blend the rears into the surrounds and send that as a 5.1 track.
--Bob