Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 479

Arc set it, I didn't. I only mentioned it because a lot of users said it set theirs to 120. Mine was at 120 on the first measurement. I remeasured because I moved the front speakers about a foot and toed them in. Everything stayed the same except the sub crossover changed.

Dick

On the mic for the ARC, is the USB wire connector that connects into the mic supposed to be bent a bit? My 5 year-old son moved was messing around with the mic (after he's been told not to) and the tip is now bent. I can't remember if it was always like that or if he just did it.

Thanks,

David

No, but USB connectors are not that sensitive, so if ARC is seeing the microphone and not complaining you are probably OK.

The USB cable provided with ARC is nothing special (except for being unusually long). If necessary, you can get a replacement cable from any decent source such as Monoprice. Just make sure it has the mini-USB connector at the end that's supposed to plug into the microphone.

If the socket built into the microphone is damaged you are in a bigger pickle as the ARC microphones are individually calibrated and matched to your ARC license (via the 2 calibration files that get installed). So you can't simply use any USB microphone.
--Bob

I just checked - everything is working fine even with the damaged cable - I ordered a new cable to be certain (for $5 what the hell).

On the other hand, my little man is in big trouble when he wakes up tomorrow. Any suggested punishments for a 5 year-old? Take away Wii for a week? PS3?

I have only used the newer TW boxes (first 8240 and now the 4240). Both of them have the same problem that you mentioned before. HDMI is OK at reboot, but when you switch away, the picture is gone. I was never able to get the audio to work through HDMI. I am using component video now which I think looks pretty good.

The only problem I have is that the "Edges On" feature on the D2 does not always kick in for all my component video sources. I usually have to switch the source to something else and then back again, or change aspect ratios to get the D2 to crop the picture. It works fine with HDMI though.

From what I am hearing, TWC does not support HDMI very well, and many of their customers have this problem.
They are really a backwards company.

Walt,
Both the PCs run identical O/S, ie XP and loaded with ARC 1.21. The same 21ft serial cable was used. Only difference is the second PC is 4 years old, compared the the first, which is only 6 months old.

Like I said, I still don't know why one works and not the other. Probably a hidden factor somewhere, but unfortunately I'm not sufficiently tech savvy to determine the cause. Measurements were taken with the first PC. It just won't upload the results.
-Ben

I understand the logic behind this but then aren't we spoiling the signal extensively? I mean this the path as I reckon:
- BD (1920x1080?/24) > HTPC (1920x1080i/50) > D2 (1920x1080p/24)
This way I think I lost all the advantage of supporting the original 24fps. Right?
What do you think I should do?
And one more thing, I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the Gennum processes its de-interlacing only when fed Interlaced signal (logical). So is this the reason why you recommend using a 1920x1080i/50 signal?

I think I am going sideways....
I have video settings in the HTPC (nvidia), in the D2 and in the Sharp projector. I am lost.
So I decided first to isolate the D2.
I projected the test patterns from the D2 and proceeded as described in the Anthem manual. This led me to some major changes in my projector settings. When the test patterns looked as expected (i used an optical filter set from a Digital Video Essentials dvd) I thought I was Go for setting the nvidia.
But then the HTPC's output looked terrible. So i started setting the nvidia settings. I couldn't get it done somehow. Things looks wrong.

What is the best pratice, Please?

Nick at Anthem told me they discovered that some of the PC manufacturers were shipping altered versions of Windows bundled with some of their computers, rather than the version of Windows you might buy separately at retail and then upgrade via the automated Windows Update process. And apparently some of these altered versions of Windows had the effect of screwing up the RS-232 connection. I would think it more likely that the differences are bugs in the low level BIOS firmware code in the PC that Windows depends upon.
--Bob

I think I've managed to confuse you.

First are you in the US or in Europe? There is no reason at all to use a /50 signal in US markets. Those are for European TVs.

Second, you should *NOT* be using interlaced signals for film-based Blu-Ray discs if your HTPC supports 1080p/24. And for video-based Blu-Ray discs you should be using 1080i/60 (in US markets).

For film-based Blu-Ray discs the path should be: BD (1080p/24 off the disc) --> HTPC (1080p/24) --> D2 --> TV where the output from the D2 is set to the "best" video resolution and frame rate for your TV. The frame rate to your TV will be /24 if the TV supports it properly and /60 otherwise. I.e., it is OK to convert /24 from the disc to /60 if your TV doesn't support /24 -- let the D2 do this conversion.

For video-based Blu-Ray discs the path should be: BD (1080i/60 off the disc) --> HTPC (1080i/60) --> D2 --> TV where the output from the D2 is set to the "best" video resolution and /60 frame rate for your TV. I.e., do not try to convert /60 input into /24 output.

A player like the PS3 can be set to automatically switch its output from 1080p/24 to 1080i/60 according to what's coming off the disc. Ideally your HTPC Blu-Ray playback system should do the same.

----------------------------

There are lots of ways to screw up video calibration setup so I can't tell what you might have done wrong from your post. Carefully re-read the "Video Calibration for non-ISF Techs" post in the collection of links in the first post of this thread for suggestions.

First, what are your Setup / Video Output settings in the D2 and does your projector use an HDMI or a DVI input? For an HDMI to DVI connection to your projector, are you using Studio RGB output from the D2? Second, double check the "picture mode" setting in your projector as described in that post, as well as turning off image enhancement "features" in the projector.

If your "best" projector settings for displaying the D2's internally generated test patterns are still quite a bit different from those you used with your HTPC, then either you have your D2's Video Output set wrong or your HTPC was sending out an odd signal which you compensated for using the settings in your projector. Thus you also need to revisit the settings in your HTPC for its output to the D2.
--Bob

thx to benleeys & bob for the info. since i'll be using a mac / bootcamp / xp combination, who knows what might happen.
come thurs pm, should there be a first - ever seismic reading coming from florida, y'all will know the source.
walt

I had a chance to work on an Anthem ARC system this Saturday. The results with the ARC system were very poor. The wide band pink noise from each channel was no where near timber matched and it ruined the surround effect by redirecting too much sound to the fronts. The measurements shown on the PC from the ARC software did not come close to representing my measurements. It also boosted the bass such that the woofer bottomed out. None of these problems were evident when manually adjusting the system.

I would pass on this feature and buy good tools and adjust it manually if you want to DIY this.

Wow I had the exact opposite results.

I clearly hear my surround information from my back speakers and the transition from front to rear for sound is night and day improvement.

The bass for me is much smoother and blends with all my speakers much better to the point that I don't know where my sub is placed. The bass no longer overpowers everything.

John

Jeff, which version of D2 firmware and ARC software were you using? Did you by any chance look to verify that the cross overs and speaker levels got properly uploaded to the D2?

What you are reporting sounds a lot to me like the Upload of ARC results didn't work properly. This has been a problem with some PC serial connections and the first versions of the ARC software.

What you are reporting is at odds with what other posters on this thread are hearing. It would be good to try to figure out where the difference is here.
--Bob

WOW!!!! I'm surprised at that. Well, I guess it's "different strokes for different folks". I must say that the ARC improved my sound tremendously. I'm just immersed in sound. I can't identify where the sound is coming from unless it's hard mixed to a particular speaker which is the way that it should be. The bass is very smooth and integrates very well with the rest of the system. I just can't stop grinning with the results of my ARC.

I had similar results the first time I ran it and had the same reaction as you did. OTOH, my first D2 was defective in other ways and a new one with updated firmware and updated ARC software was an entirely different animal.

ARC Movie vs. Music configuration -- no difference in ARC algorithm

I got an email from Nick at Anthem today clarifying something I've had in the back of my mind for a while: There is no difference in the ARC calculations/targets, or in how the results are used in the D2 during listening, between the Movie and Music configuration.

Producing a separate Music configuration lets you specify a different speaker set (e.g., no center channel or no subwoofer for Music), and conceivably you could use different mic positions when measuring for Music listening although I would imagine that would be rare. But if the speaker setup and mic measurements are identical then the results will also be identical for Movie and Music, both in the calculations/targets and in how those results are used in the D2 when playing content (assuming the same Audio Mode is engaged).

Which means there's no reason to set up a separate Music configuration with ARC unless you want to force a difference such as changing which speakers are to be used in the mix or when making different, manual adjustments to the ARC Targets.
--Bob

I normally do a separate Movie and Music configuration because I remove the center channel from the Music configuration. I do the same measurements in the same positions. However, the ARC produces different results for my rears. For movie, the crossover is 95 and for music, the crossover is 100 which is a small difference.

Yes, Bob, I read about this somewhere else earlier. What's puzzling me is that my new PC (which refused to load the results) is loaded with XP that is purchased independently at retail. And the older PC (which sucessfully loaded the results) is using OEM software! Both O/Ss have been similarly updated.

I am going to take new readings again after I finish installing new traps in my room. Maybe I'll get lucky this time.
-Ben

I do the same, and saw some differences in cross over early on. The more careful I am in resetting the mic positions properly for the Music pass the more likely it is that I will get precisely the same cross overs for both Movie and Music.

Mind you, the actual audio to the speaker is a combo of the cross over and the ARC correction parameters. So a slight difference in cross over like this may be meaningless as ARC may simply be reversing that with slightly different correction parameters. Your measurements may simply be right on the border for which way ARC chooses to go, even though the net results are identical.

Anyway, it was results like yours (and my early results) that prompted me to ask Nick. The answer is that any difference you are seeing is due to subtle differences in the measurement -- not to any difference in the algorithm.
--Bob

Yes, I probably did not precisely place the mic in the exact same spot; but, I'm very happy with my sound. After all, it's all about what you hear and not what you see when it comes to audio. BTW, is your sub fixed?

Velodyne swapped out the subwoofer's amp under warranty. But UPS's train from California got lost (should have turned left in Albuquerque). So the replacement amp is now "rescheduled" for delivery today.
--Bob

Yes, I just hate when they don't make the right turn. Well, I hope you get it today and all works out for you.

For music I have only the Fronts working. By removing the Sub (and hence the crossover) resulted in a 5dB lift of the low frequency target line at 20Hz.
-Ben

That makes sense. You specified a different speaker setup and ARC compensated.

However, what Nick is saying is that if you ALSO removed the Sub from the Movie configuration Arc would have calculated the same results as what you are now getting for Music. I.e., ARC doesn't do anything special for Music that's different from what it does for Movie.
--Bob

Bob,

I do not know the versions of what was involved. All I know is we ran it twice with the same poor results. I also looked at the measurements reported by the software and they were wrong. I do not see how that poor of measurement could ever result in good results. I have seen many of these types of systems and none have been any good, but this one was particularly horrible.

I do not have continued access to this system so it is impossible for me to report more on this. The client is in europe at this point so I doubt he will comment for a while.

I would be willing to look at another person's system who believes their's is correct to see how good it really is.

I agree. I checked to see if they had a different box (maybe a Motorola) and they did not in my area. The tech at TW told me that they had a lot of complaints with the new boxes and software because they are slow.

I hope you do get a chance to evaluate an ARC setup that appears to be working correctly. The sort of gross, audible errors you are reporting would, I think, have generated far more complaint posts here if they were common. So far, the only cases we've had reported here like that were due to faulty Uploads of results to the D2.

Anthem did change the measurement process after the initial ARC V1.0 shipments due to some problems in certain listening rooms, but I've no idea whether that would explain what you were seeing. They also changed the instructions for mic positioning to make sure ARC could better distinguish room response from inherent speaker performance (see Section 3.15 of the D2 V1.3x Operating Manual downloadable from the Anthem D2 site).

If you have a chance to find out from the client, please do check on the version #'s. The latest D2 firmware version at the moment is V1.33. The latest ARC application version at the moment is V1.2.2.

If you happen to still have the ARC application on your own computer, along with the results file it produces, it might also be helpful if you can screen capture and post its chart windows here along with what you were seeing that was different in your own measurements. You can do that (run ARC in Advanced mode) without having to have your computer connected to the client's D2.
--Bob

Yes, I would love to see the graphs that were produced by ARC that caused such a horrible listening experience.

Yup. Very useful for that.