Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 507

Hi Bob,

First I gotta let you know that every once in a while I read a few notes from you in this forum and then I run to my gear and run the ARC again. And invariably I get better results. You should write their manuals. That would have saved me a lot of trials and time.

Now to the point. I too have a Velodyne sub. A DD-18. And through my reading in this forum, and an exchange of info with Curt (Velodyne's AVS forum), I have decided to first run the sub's EQ in manual mode, setting all the parameters including phase and contour in order to get a flatter response and a seamless integration with my front speakers. And then I ran the ARC.

So do you think this is wrong? I mean if you have decided otherwise then you probably have been there already. Right?

Enlight me.

Thank you

No I don't exactly think it is wrong, it's just that in my case it seems to have worked better with the DD EQ bypassed.

I *THINK* what is going on is that the DD EQ is doing something to the frequencies higher up than it shows which is causing problems because ARC is depending on the subwoofer to work a little higher up than "normal".

In any event, with the DD EQ bypassed, the ARC-processed results -- as demonstrated with the Velodyne's own test sweeps -- are as good as I achieved manually, remembering that you need to find a compromise Velodyne EQ setting that works reasonably well for multiple seating positions even though it is not perfectly flat for any one of them.

Given that ARC was able to do the job all on its own, without apparent problems higher up in frequency for any speaker, I feel comfortable leaving it to do the job -- the Velodyne EQ remains bypassed.

I could imagine other room scenarios where the Velodyne EQ could be just the thing you need to carry some of the heavy lifting and free up ARC's resources to do work elsewhere.

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My recommendation is that you try it with ARC alone FIRST -- Velodyne EQ bypassed. Also make sure the cross overs in the Velodyne are disabled so that the only cross over processing is happening in the D2 (Select the cross over entry in the Velodyne menu and hit Reset on its remote). This should be done whether or not you are using the Velodyne's EQ. By the way, I also run my Velodyne at the Servo=8 setting ("Musical").

After you see what ARC can do with that, then feel free to experiment with the Velodyne stuff.

However, I do *NOT* think it is a good idea to add the Velodyne stuff AFTER setting up ARC. Turn off ARC and set the Velodyne EQ the way you want it and then do a new set of ARC Measurements that include the impact of the Velodyne EQ.

[ETA: Come to think of it, a better approach might be to turn the Velodyne EQ off, then do an ARC Measurement and Upload to get ARC's idea of the proper cross overs and speaker levels installed in the D2 *WITHOUT* any Velodyne EQ, then turn Room EQ (i.e., ARC's processing) OFF for the source you are using to run the Velodyne's own test sweeps, then turn ON the Velodyne EQ and adjust it as you think best (but WITHOUT modifying the levels and cross overs set by ARC), then, finally, run a NEW set of ARC Measurements so ARC is now taking into account the Velodyne's internal EQ in making its own final set of settings.]

Also by the way, in my setup, Polarity Normal and Phase 0 in both the Velodyne and in the D2 turned out to be the right setting. This will not be the case for every room. You can still adjust Polarity and Phase AFTER doing the ARC setup if you want -- even if you are using the controls inside the Velodyne to accomplish that.
--Bob

Thats true, I forgot to mention that I got an extension arm fot the mic stand so that I can set the mic exactly over the chair at ear height.

I have no doubt that ARC will increase your listening pleasure once its part of the system. From your curve you have a 5dB dip at 1.25khertz and another at 3.15k hertz. ARC will surely flatten your mids. To get good midrange it is essential that you are relatively flat from 100hz. to 2Khz. Probably the shrilleness that you are hearing is at 1.6khz.

I have a component similar to SMS1 and a microphone multiplexer with 4 lab grade microphones that I use to flatten the sub before the arrival of the ARC. In my case, I use ARC's final subwoofer's graph and ajdust for the dips and valleys that I see. The resulting graph is +/- 1.5 from 22 to 120 hertz. ARC does little more for my Sub but does wonders for the rest of the other 7 channels.

Just noticed something weird. Took another measurement of my room with ARC but did not upload. Watched a movie and then noticed that the movie config settings were at a default of all speakers at 80 Hz crossover and no equalization on option. Loaded user settings and everything was back to ARCk settings. Is this normal?
John

Yes. Although it would be better if you got some warning.

ARC returns some settings to their default values as part of its configuration prep prior to starting the Measurement sweeps. And it doesn't restore them afterwards.

Of course if you do an Upload then those values will be set to what ARC now Uploads. But if you don't do an Upload you will need to Reload Saved User or Installer Settings -- or do an Upload of some prior ARC calculation -- to get them back where they are supposed to be.

This is yet another reason why it is vital to Save User and/or Installer Settings after doing an ARC Upload so that you capture those uploaded Setup menu values for later Reloading.

I suspect the lack of warning is due to the "Advanced" mode being a last minute addition to the ARC application. They had originally planned on sending it out with only the normal mode -- where an Upload always happens.

However, even in normal mode you can have this problem if the ARC Measurment process fails for any reason. The original Setup menu values are not restored. You have to do it yourself -- typically by a Reload Saved User Settings.
--Bob

Bob,
did what you said initially and that was to save in two places. I did this and once I restored as I mentioned it was fine. Watched the whole movie with the default settings Will have to watch it again
thanks,
John

Careful there! Watching a whole movie with the wrong Settings, and not noticing, may come to be known as John Syndrome!


--Bob

Nice one, Bob

Bob,
Infamy for the wrong reason may be better than obscurity for the right one
John

Question. Can two diff ARC settings be kept, one in the user and the other in installer? Would be handy to compare.

Bob,

If ARC sets EQ = OFF before doing its sweeps during measurements, does it automatically resets EQ = ON after upload? After every upload I see a notice for me to turn EQ on, but when I check my sources, it is already on or off, just as before. What's your experience?
-Ben

The original ARC stuff left EQ OFF after the first Upload -- and thus the warning message to remember to go turn it on yourself.

I believe they may now have corrected that so that it turns EQ ON for all sources during the first Upload but I can't confirm that since, of course, I'm no longer doing my first Upload. In any event, you should check after the first Upload and turn it on for each source as necessary.

If you Reload Factory Defaults (as when doing a firmware install) then EQ OFF will be set for all sources. Your current EQ ON/OFF setting for each source is remembered as part of Saved User and/or Installer Settings. So you can Reload from those.

ARC sets the Anthem to the FM/AM input when doing its Measurements, so that's the only one where it might have to fiddle with whether EQ is ON or OFF during the Measurements themselves. I haven't actually checked to see if ARC is doing any such fiddling.

What I do know is that ARC, currently, preserves the EQ On/Off settings I have in place for each source when I do a new Upload. So the only time you need to check is after the first Upload.

But again, if you do a new Measurement without an Upload you will need to Reload Saved User Settings (or a new Upload of older ARC results) to restore the cross overs and speaker level settings that ARC had to reset to defaults prior to making that new Measurement.
--Bob

Ok, Bob, I got it. It's just that the reminder doesn't seem to quite fit into the situation each time I reload a new set of measurements. As for AM/FM source, I do notice that ARC always set Bass Mgt from Music to Movies everytime I do a reload, which I think is strange. Thanks.
-Ben

I just ordered the ARC for my AVM50 @ TruTone yesterday. I can't wait.
The best thing about being in Mississauga , as Jayray knows is I will be without my unit for about 1 hour and don't have to send it in.

my question for you already lucky ARC users, Is it hard to set up the ARC.... I'm talking in the home side of things. I THOUGHT IT WAS PLUG IN THE MIC, place the mic and boom AVM50 makes the settings and away you go.

But from what I'm reading, it's sounds a lot more.

ARC is pretty easy to run. There are two options when you fire up ARC, one option sets everything for you, or the advanced mode that lets you change some things. Even the advanced setup is not very hard if you do just a little "homework". Read the manual and instructions thoroughly, do a search here for anything you are not sure about, and you should be fine.

Sorry guys, I haven't been following too closely, I though you couldn't "get" ARC on/with an AVM 50, I thought it was only available for the D2 with it's greater horsepower. But I guess there's now another upgrade to put dual DSPs in the 50.

So a couple questions:

How do you get this, just talk to my dealer?
Will it work with an AVM-20HD (which my understanding is hardware-identical to an AVM-50?

Hi All,

I installed and ran ARC-1 yesterday on my D1 processor with (ultimately) good results. The D1 firmware rev is 1.33 and ARC ver 1.2.4. As reported by some owners the bass was too strong after my first attempt with ARC calibration. After installing ARC ver 1.2.5 and running ARC again, the bass was tame and proper.

The overall frequency response is more neutral. Movie dialog is more understandable. This is a decent upgrade. I can't wait to use the D1 more!

Cheers

Upgrades can be done at the dealer. It is my understanding that the ARC upgrade is only available for the AVM30-HD, AVM40 and AVM50. No option for the AVM-20HD atm.

The AVM ARC upgrade is only available for the AVM-30HD (i.e., the one that's already been upgraded to add a video board), the AVM-40, and the AVM-50. It is not available for the original AVM-30 (unless you send the unit to the factory to get the video board added) or AVM-20, nor, we've been told, for the AVM-20HD.

The upgrade involves replacing the single DSP hardware in the AVM with a dual DSP. This change is dealer installable, i.e., you don't have to send the unit to the factory.

You get the dual DSP change-out, plus the ARC application software itself, a specially calibrated microphone, a longish mic to USB cable, and an OK but not great mic stand for $800 (plus perhaps a bit of labor charge at the dealer for the hardware install, which only takes about 5-10 minutes).

If you don't already have one of these AVM units, you can also buy a NEW AVM-40 or AVM-50 factory bundled with the dual DSP and ARC for $500 over the previous pricing (all pricing is Anthem's MSRP).

It is shipping now. Order it through your Anthem dealer. A number of us here have also purchased a $30 boom-style mic stand (from some other source) to use instead of Anthem's included stand.

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Setting up ARC is ridiculously easy and well worth the effort. Some people experiment with re-doing the Measurements or playing with ARC's default "Targets" for Calculation, and of course that takes more time if you want to do that, but not all that much more time.

You need to take a bit of care in a few preliminary steps in the Anthem, and in your choice of microphone locations during the ARC Measurements, and you need to make sure ARC is turned on in the AVM after you Upload the ARC results to it, and that you Save the resulting Setup menu settings after the Upload.

You will also need to upgrade your AVM to the V1.33 firmware (or newer) prior to running ARC Measurements. At the moment, the latest ARC software is V1.2.5 and you should download and install that one if you get shipped an older version from Anthem.

You will need a computer running Windows XP or Vista with one USB port for the microphone cable and either a real serial port or a separate USB to serial adapter plugged into a second USB port for communicating with the AVM during the setup. Most folks are using a laptop for this. A wireless mouse makes it easier to get out of the way when doing the ARC Measurements. The Keyspan USA-19HS USB to Serial adapter works well (with the latest driver from the Keyspan site).

The Measurement and setup process can easily be done in an hour -- probably more like half an hour if you are organized. You will need a time when there are no significant external noises in your listening room that would interfere with the ARC Measurement process.

The ARC V1.2.5 install kit is available for download now from the AVM downloads page on the Anthem site. In that ARC install folder you will also find an updated Operating Manual for the AVM-40 and AVM-50 (combined now in one Manual). The new Section 3.15 in that Manual describes the ARC setup process.

Lots of notes on setting up ARC and what it does for you are in this thread in the pages dating back to April when the ARC upgrade first shipped for the D2.

One very important thing to be aware of is that the two ARC licensing and calibration files that come on its install CD will set ARC to work only with the specific serial number of your AVM (and the mic shipped with your copy of ARC). That means it is crucial that your dealer send in the correct serial number for your AVM when he places the order, and that you get delivered the ARC kit intended for your AVM if he receives more than one of them from Anthem at the same time. You get the serial number for your AVM by pressing Select repeatedly on the remote. The last set of info that gets displayed before it starts over again includes your unit's serial number.
--Bob

Great!

At this point, anyone who has ARC V1.2.4 should immediately replace it with ARC V1.2.5. Don't even bother running Measurements with ARC V1.2.4 to see if you happen to be affected by the "bass earthquake" bug.

Folks who are still using ARC V1.2.2 can afford to wait a bit if it is not a convenient time to do re-Measurement with ARC V1.2.5. But you should switch to the newer version at some point.

All AVM ARC users will need V1.2.5, as the AVM Anthem units are not supported in ARC V1.2.2.

And of course, everyone using ARC should be using V1.33 in the Anthem firmware at this point.
--Bob

Hm, that's a shame, what's the difference between the 20HD and 30HD then? Sorry for all the basic questions, I've just been enjoying my 20 and not following all this. Of course that brings up another question, which software do you pick from the website for a 20HD, the AVM50 software?


Unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps) I've already got an AVM-20 2.1. Though given that the scaler is missing one feature I need, maybe trying to swap for a 40 is a reasonable option. Though I think it would cost me just as much as the 20HD upgrade but without the scaler.

I don't know why the original AVM-30 and the AVM-20HD are excluded from the ARC upgrade. I'd be willing to bet, however, that it is a technical reason rather than just marketing trying to get you to buy a newer unit.

And I'm afraid I haven't been tracking the AVM-20HD well enough to know what's up with firmware for it. I would assume, to start, that the AVM-50 firmware is the right one, but I'm not certain.
--Bob

In an e-mail to me, Nick mentioned that "the AVM 20-HD has a different core on which the ARC doesn't work". I thought the AVM 20-HD was functionally equivalent to the AVM-50, but I'm guessing that it is only equivalent on the video side based on the comments from Nick. Also, you use the software for the AVM-50. There is not any specific software for the AVM 20-HD. On a side note, I have not been able to use any version of the settings editor to save my configuration before upgrading the firmware. None of the versions that I have tried recognize the AVM 20-HD. I sent a note to Nick a few weeks ago about it, but I have not heard back with a resolution.

Buddy

Thanks again Bob, and Buddy, guess I'll just keep plugging away with my eyes and ears open for the best way to get the great new features out there without giving up my Anthem or sucking me dry

I have downloaded and installed ARC 1.2.5 and did remeasurements. The sound has stepped up notch. The dialogue is cleaner and overall sound is more immersing and it just plain and simple sounds really good. Another thing I did was change from THX Ultra 2 to DPLIIx. I wonder if that caused a difference in sound. I will have to do some comparison listening to really determine. I didn't try 1.2.4 because of the negative feedback; but, 1.2.5 seems like a winner. Try it out. I don't think you will be sorry.

On another note, I have heard people say that they lay the back of their recliners back when running ARC. Does that really improve the measurements from ARC? Some people say they raise the mic up high enough so that it's above the back of the recliner to prevent reflections from back of the recliner. Is that better than laying the back of the recliner back?

I just completed a re-Measurement with ARC V1.2.5. I also did some minor speaker repositioning as part of this. So far everything sounds great. I've not yet spotted any dramatic changes however, compared to the ARC V1.2.2 setup I had been using.

Once again, I set up a separate Movie and Music configuration where the Music configuration differs by having no Center speaker.

Cross overs this time were set by ARC to 80Hz for the LF/RF pair, 120Hz for the subwoofer, and 90Hz for the Center and Surrounds. All quite reasonable.

As last time, I did Calculations at the default 5KHz Max EQ Frequency Target and also at 12KHz and 20KHz. The 12 KHz Calculated lines are a bit bumpier than the 5KHz but nothing dramatic. This matches what I saw in V1.2.2. Curiously this time the 20KHz lines are not that much bumpier than the 12KHz lines.

In any event, I decided to Upload the 12KHz results and that's what I'm listening to now. As time passes, I'm getting less nervous about using these 12KHz results. They seem to be working well in my room.

And my oh my it does sound good!
--Bob

CAUTION: Possible Speaker Calibration "loud buzz" bug, perhaps due to ARC V1.2.5!

One of the things I do after an ARC Upload is to go to Setup / Speaker Calibration and double check with my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter that the speaker levels appear to have been properly Uploaded by ARC.

After the ARC V1.2.5 Upload I just described, I did this as well. And the levels all do seem to be correct. But I got one big surprise:

When I moved from Music Subwoofer to Noise Level by scrolling down one more time with the Down arrow I got a brief but loud burst of noise. It sounded like a sawtooth waveform (a harsh buzz, not a hum) around 60Hz and possibly around 80dB. It lasted for about 1/10th second and appeared to be limited to (or simply was loudest from) the Right Front speaker.

While on the Music subwoofer line, if you simply turn off the test tones by pressing the Back button you do not get this noise. People should use this as a workaround.

It may be that ARC V1.2.5 is doing something a bit different in its Upload which is related to this issue, as I've not had it with prior ARC versions.

The ARC results themselves, both for Movie and Music, sound just fine, so if there IS a bug here it appears to be isolated to the Setup / Speaker Calibration menu.

I've reported the details to Anthem tech support.
--Bob

I just tried what you described. I didn't get any noise when I went from the Music Sub to Noise Level. However, when I go from Movie Sub to Music Sub, I do hear a thump every time I scroll between Music Sub and Movie Sub.

I'm not sure which of those two mic positioning options is really better. A 3rd choice is just to move the mic closer to the screen by about, say, a foot, so that it is not so close to the seat back. I think lowering the seat back is probably fine. You just want to reduce the near-field reflections off the seat back messing up what the mic hears.

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With ARC in place I've pretty much stopped using THX post processing altogether. I believe this is due to the "timbre adjustment" that THX is trying to add to the sound. The ARC sound is clean enough that the THX processing just seems to get in the way.

There are some movies where I will turn on THX Re-Equalization, even though the rest of the THX post processing is turned off. This is to remove the treble bias in the Center speaker that was added for theatrical release. I find myself doing that pretty infrequently these days, however.

Of course for older mono movies I'll go all the way to Mono-Academy audio mode to remove the severe treble bias built into those older sound tracks.
--Bob

My ARC kit should arrive this week for my AVM50. In reading through the manual on the setup procedure, I have some questions. I appologize if some of my questions are obvious when actually running it so just tell me if that's the case.

1. In the manual it states, "Positions 2 and 3 should be symmetric to the left and the right of the centerline and the same applies to the remaining positions." Is the centerline considered you primary seating position? Can someone explain exactly what this means?

2. How far in front of your seating position can the mic be?

3. In the manual it states, "Set the mic in the first position. Don't stand near the mic while sweep tones are playing." Where can I be when sweep tones are playing? Should I leave the room?

4. Also, in the manual it states, "If you made measurements for a music configuration, assign bass manager accordingly." What does this mean?

5. Do you have to run measurements each time you update the ARC software?

Thanks,