Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 509

My on screen display stopped working.

The D2 is running 1.31. I downloaded and ran ARC 1.2.5. ARC successfully uploaded the results to the D2. I then did a "save user settings" and the on-screen display disappeared before displaying "Done", never to return. Never had any problem before. Any ideas appreciated.

Bob,

Everything checks out fine.
Levels are -
Front L/R -3.5/-3.0
Center +3.5
Surrounds L/R +1.5/+2.0
Sub -4.5
Here are the charts -

There are two possibilities here. First, it may just be coincidence. Some people who have lost the On Screen Display have discovered that something simply didn't get initialized properly the last time they installed firmware. A re-install of the firmware fixed the problem. This appears to be random. It is unusual for this problem to manifest after running fine without problems however. Usually if this is your problem, you will see it almost immediately after installing new firmware.

The other is that ARC V1.2.4, and thus ARC V1.2.5, *REQUIRE VERSION V1.33 OF THE FIRMWARE*.

Now I'm surprised that the ARC V1.2.5 application didn't check the firmware level and refuse to run. I would also not expect loss of the On Screen Display to be a symptom of running ARC with the wrong firmware. But I suppose that could be what's going on.

In any event, here's what you should do to address both of these possibilities:

* I'm assuming your Save User Settings actually worked according to the Front Panel display, i.e., that loss of the On Screen Display is your only issue here. If you've lost the Front Panel display as well, or have any other reason to believe the Save User Settings didn't actually work, then something more serious is going on and you should STOP HERE and give Anthem tech support a call before proceeding.

* Download and install the V1.33 firmware. It is available from the Anthem public download page. Don't skip any steps. For example, make sure you Reload Factory Defaults before doing the install, and make sure that you have no powered source or display device HDMI connections during the install. Since you are coming from V1.31, you should not need to separately save and restore your Video Source Adjust menu settings via a PC file (using the Live Video Settings Editor application). The stuff you just Saved to User Settings will contain those. But since we are not certain of the status of your Saved User Settings, it would probably be wise to run Live Video Settings Editor (from the V1.33 install kit) and Get and Save your Video Source Adjust menu settings to a PC file just in case.

* Presuming the install of V1.33 completes without problems, the next step is to do a Reload Saved User Settings to get back your particular settings.

* Do you have an On Screen Display at this point? If so good, proceed below. Otherwise STOP HERE and give Anthem tech support a call.

* Double check your Setup menu and Video Source Adjust menu settings. Everything look OK? Remember that if necessary you can reload your Video Source Adjust menu settings from the PC file you saved above.

* Now run ARC V1.2.5 in Advanced mode. Open the file with your V1.2.5 results. Perform an Upload.

* Do a Save User Settings. Do you still have an On Screen Display. If so, good. Otherwise STOP HERE and give Anthem tech support a call.

* I'm not certain that the ARC V1.2.5 Measurements you did -- the results you just uploaded -- are truly good since I don't know whether ARC V1.2.5 has any dependencies on the V1.33 firmware during the Measurement part of the process. So just to be on the safe side, my recommendation would be, that if everything is good at this point as regards your On Screen Display then you should probably do a NEW ARC V1.2.5 Measurement and Upload those results to replace the ones you just loaded.
--Bob

I'm not sure, but I think the latest ARC's need v1.33 to run properly. Contact Anthem tech at the e-mail or phone number on the D2 website if loading v1.33 doesn't work.
The download for v1.33 is on the Anthem/D2 page of their website under the 'latest software' link. Sorry, I'm not computer literate enough to post the link for you.
Follow the included v1.33 downloding instructions carefully for a safe download.
I don't know if you will need to download the ARC1.2.5 again and re-measure or recalculate and upload again. Some of the smarter, more experieced posters (Bob) can advise you on the particulars much better than I can.
Since you can't use your OSD you will have to use the D2 front panel display to do the uploads. Hope this helps.

I don't see any problems in your charts (keeping in mind that I don't really know what ARC is doing under the hood). You have some pretty significant room modes between 50 and 120 Hz but it looks like ARC thinks it has them tamed. There are no significant residuals (uncorrected problems) in the low frequencies as far as ARC is telling you.

The Calculated line for your subwoofer is already down by 10dB at 120Hz so the high crossover doesn't seem to be keeping it loud out that far. Which means it SHOULDN'T be localizable.

And the relative levels of the mains and the subwoofer also seem OK to me below that point so I think ARC's Calculations show the overlap of cross overs is working well.

Localizability of the subwoofer is due to the higher frequencies coming from it -- say 80 to 200 Hz. Since you have a pretty big room mode in that region, my one thought is that your mic positions were not spaced far enough apart or did not alternate either side of center as you go from position to position.

That is, ARC has detected the room mode, but hasn't properly corrected for it due to the mic positions being too close, or not alternating. And so you still have more residual variation in high bass response than you should have from seating position to seating position. And if you happen to sit down where an uncorrected high bass peak still remains, then you spot the sound as coming from the subwoofer. If this is the case, then I would expect your perception of subwoofer localizability to vary according to your choice of seating position -- even a few feet would make a difference.

And manually changing the cross overs (e.g., lowering the sub to 80Hz) would not completely eliminate the problem because ARC still has the wrong impression of how to correct for the room modes in your room.

If any of this sounds familiar, then the next step is to rethink your mic positions during the Measurement.

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Another possibility is that you have your room configured differently for Measurement than when you are actually listening. The key thing in these low frequencies is cubic feet of air volume (since obviously the basic dimensions of your room aren't going to change). I.e., having a closet or door opened vs. closed can vary the room modes in the bass.
--Bob

Looks like Bob gave you a much more complete answer while I was composing mine.
But I do have a question for Bob if your still on line.
I just downloaded ARC1.2.5 and remeasured since I wasn't sure if you needed to, and I decided to turn off my subs' eq and let ARC do all the work. I then calculated and uploaded the new ARC.
Everything went perfect. I can't say I notice a difference in quality, which is to say that the sound is still outstanding.
My question is, do I need to erase the previous ARC before uploding the new one? Or does the new upload automatically erase the old one?
I know this may seem like a stupid question,(remember me- I thought I had a magic PS3 controller a week ago) but there is an 'erase' tab on the ARC and I want to make sure that I'm uploading the ARC correctly.
Thanks,
Tom

tngiloy,
You do NOT have to Erase the previous ARC results before Uploading the new one. Each Upload replaces any prior Upload.

The Erase function is only needed if you want to remove ARC data from your Anthem -- for example if there is a bug, or if you are selling the unit to someone who wants to start out "from scratch". An Erase via the ARC application, followed by a Reload Factory Defaults in the Setup menu will return the unit to its true factory default state.
--Bob

All I can say is "wow!" Had my first hands-on with the ARC last night and I just used the "simple" setting. I used care when placing the microphone in different positions but I didn't measure exactly or anything.

Crossovers were set to 40-45hz range all around. Sub crossover was set at 120hz.

Bass from my 4 JL F113s is spectacular. Great impact, no overhang, not localizable.

Overall imaging and sense of immersion is much improved.

The treble was slightly increased by ARC and this is the only part I'm not crazy about. It's just ever so slightly "forward" sounding. If I had to make a choice between pre-ARC and ARC with "forward" I'd easily go with ARC. I know it's adjustable so I'll just spend some time with it.

Like many people here, I've spent a lot of money on the room itself as far as acoustics and decor goes. The equipment is also expensive. BY FAR, the best bang for the buck is the ARC. It boggles me how cheap it is and how much difference it made, even in a dedicated room.

If anyone is sitting on the fence about purchasing one...are you nuts? just get it, you won't be sorry!

Ah ha! That explains why these little guys have been scratching on the door trying to get out! They should be at your place soon....



--Bob

Follow-up on "loud buzz" in Speaker/Calibration issue with ARC V1.2.5:

Nick at Anthem tells me they've been able to reproduce what I'm hearing using the ARC results file I sent them. They are looking into it now to see if it is some sort of corruption in my ARC results file or a bug in ARC itself. Film at 11:00.
--Bob

On another topic, Nick mentioned that the issue of "localizable" subwoofers is not subject to easy answers.

Sometimes its a matter of your proximity to the subwoofer ("Using the subwoofer as an end table," as he put it). But there are room characteristics that are just going to make it easier to detect that audio is coming from the subwoofer.

He says ARC is solving real problems by raising the subwoofer cross over up to, say 120Hz, but to trust your ears. If your subwoofer seems too localizable at ARC's default setting, then lower the Target cross over for it a bit and see how much that helps. A lower cross over may very well result in a better compromise solution.

However, you should at least try the ARC defaults first, as you may very well discover they work surprisingly well even though the cross overs appear unusual to you.

---------------------------------

ARC has my sub cross over at 120Hz and that is working great for me, in my room. When I did my prior, manual setup using the Velodyne EQ, I noticed that I could raise the sub cross over no higher than 110Hz before the subwoofer stood out too much. Obviously ARC is handling things differently, but the thing to take away from this is that if ARC sets your cross over to 120Hz, and you notice the subwoofer too much, it may suffice to lower the Target cross over no further than 110Hz or a similar small adjustment. I.e., don't feel you HAVE TO go all the way to 80Hz (or lower) just because 120Hz didn't work well.
--Bob

By default, ARC works its EQ solution up to 5KHz for each main speaker. When you look at the Calculation lines in the Advanced mode charts, and compare to the Target lines, it should be obvious where ARC set the upper end of its EQ.

So look at Target and Calculated beyond 5KHz. You may discover that raising the Target for Max EQ Frequency helps things.

Or if you really like your prior upper band better, I suppose you might even try LOWERING the Target for Max EQ Frequency.

So far, all the advice I'm getting from Anthem is against raising the Max EQ Frequency Target above the default 5KHz, but at least in my case, in my room, I'm running it at 12KHz right now and it seems to be working just peachy.

Don't overdo raising it though, or you will likely see oscillations appearing in the lower frequency portions of the Calculations line (due to ARC putting some of its resources into the higher frequencies).

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ETA: Also the treble results for ARC are sensitive to the height of the microphone during Measurement. Give some thought to whether your first try at the mic positioning might have been higher or lower than seated ear height.
--Bob

"So far, all the advice I'm getting from Anthem is against raising the Max EQ Frequency Target above the default 5KHz, but at least in my case, in my room, I'm running it at 12KHz right now and it seems to be working just peachy."


Bob,
What do you mean by peachy. What differences did you detect. Got my new mic stand and was going to remeasure but thought of experimenting a little.
John

Keep in mind that you can do multiple calculations off of one good set of Measurements. In fact, I recommend you exit ARC and Write Protect the file with the Measurements in them before doing the first Calculation using it.

Then make as many copies as you need of that file and do different Calculations in each -- Write Protecting each of them as you go, and leaving your original Measurements file untouched.

You can can then Open any of those results files and Upload it as and when you choose.

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My early experiments with raising Max EQ Frequency above 5KHz, back in the ARC V1.1 era, were not promising. There was a distinct harshness that was obviously wrong, and the curves showed signs that raising that Target had caused ARC to divert resources from lower frequencies. At that time I had tried 10KHz and 20KHz.

Then we got reports that some people here were getting improved results using 12KHz with the current version of ARC (V1.2.2 at that point). So I decided to try it, fully expecting to get the same bad results I had found before. I picked 12KHz not for any reason based on my Measurements or what I was hearing, but simply because that was the number posters had just been talking about.

And much to my surprise there WASN'T any obvious flaw in the results!

I've been trying, since then, to pin down what if anything is really different about the 12KHz results and the 5KHz results I had been using. I think the upper register is cleaner -- particularly for my center channel -- and try as I might I've not been able to catch the 12KHz results doing anything wrong.

So when I just now did my re-Measurement with ARC V1.2.5, I did Calculations at 5KHz, 12KHz, and 20KHz to compare the charts, but decided to Upload the 12KHz results. And that's what I'm listening to now. And it sounds great! I've not loaded the 5KHz or 20KHz results for comparison, but I've really got no complaint about the 12KHz stuff I'm using now, so I'm in no rush to do that.

So "peachy" it is. However, my good results raising this Target may be peculiar to my room and equipment. It is still the case that Nick recommends NOT raising that Target above 5KHz.
--Bob

I'm happy to report my OSD is now working.

The cure was to load 1.33 into the D2. Everything works & sounds excellent. Now the only problem I have is the D2/ARC highlights the fact that I need start searching for a bigger sub to fill the non-dedicated room I have to use for my home theater. Where does it End?

Thanks to Bob and tngiloy for their advice/suggestions.

Great! I still don't know why the OSD is going out for some folks, but at least the re-install seems to deal with it.

When looking into subs, also keep in mind that a pair of smaller subs may work better than one big sub if you have the room to put them some distance apart. That's because they'll couple differently to the room at different locations which means the bass room modes will be reduced even without going through the effort of bass absorbing room treatments.

Of course you could also talk to DRHANKZ about his "low rider" style floor thumpers that bounce his room down around 1 Hz....
--Bob

Thanks for the sub advice. I'm currently using a pair of Sunfire True subs but with the D2/ARC's help, I'm developing the opinion that they aren't big enough to deal with my large room that is open to another room. I'm thinking of trying something bigger like a DD-18, either adding to or replacing the existing.

I have to ask what DRHANKZ uses to get down to 1 Hz?

With everything that has been going on with ARC and finally getting mine run and uploaded (which sounds great, by the way - I had some serious room modes going on around 30HZ and 70HZ), I have forgotten to ask if anyone has noticed any problems with the Anthem triggers not working. I have my Velodyne sub amp running off trigger one which used to turn the sub amp on when I powered on the Anthem. I think this was related to the 1.33 upgrade, but I am not sure since I have not really used the system since the upgrade other than to verify and check all my settings and follow directions everyone has provided to get ready for the ARC install. I noticed that my subs were not on when I started doing my measurements, backed out of ARC and rechecked trigger setups. They looked OK, but don't seem to be working. I tried trigger 2 but it did not help.

Thanks,

Another question on playing with ARC. Does anyone know if it is possible to run a measurement of each speaker from the primary position only, and then save the results in a spearate file to get a look at the individual speaker profiles? Or are you forced to go through the multiple positions? I don't want to calculate and load the Anthem from this measurement, but it could be a very useful tool for comparing different speakers (other brands or models) or different sspeaker or subwoofer locations to get a better understanding of how different configurations would work in a given room.

Thanks again,

The current version of the ARC application doesn't really provide a lot of tools for analysis, and in particular, no, there's no way to just do a single position measurement of your set of speakers.

I wouldn't be surprised if this changes over time, but for now ARC is focussed on the automatic setup stuff.

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For the Velodyne, remember that you have to go in and change the setting for how it powers on to look for the 12 volt trigger. By default the Velodyne looks for an audio signal instead. Also, it can be confusing but the Velodyne has its trigger input built into the serial OUTPUT jack. Make sure you are using the correct jack.

I use trigger 3 from the Anthem to power up my DD-15 and its working fine with V1.33.

If you are using a DD series Velodyne, you can easily tell if the Velodyne is waiting on, and then getting the trigger: First disconnect the serial plug providing the trigger. The Velodyne's video should now have the message that it is waiting for the 12 volt input. Now connect the serial plug and turn on the Anthem and that message should go away.

Also remember that in the Anthem, in addition to setting the flag to activate trigger 3 on Power up (for example), you ALSO need to change the setting to Enable the entire set of Triggers in the first place.
--Bob

Bob,

I have a pair of the SC 12s. 2 passive 12" subs with a SC-1250 amp in my equipment rack. Normally, with the Anthem off and the sub amp in standby, powering on the Anthem also sends a 12 volt signal to the sub amp trigger input turning it on, the amp LED goes to blue and the Display lights up blue showing the current volume setting. Now, nothing happens and I need unplug the trigger cable, then use the sub remote to turn on the Amp. If I leave the trigger cable from the Anthem plugged in, the sub amp will not turn on with the sub amp remote, since it detects the presence of the trigger cable. I verified all my settings, triggers enabled and trigger 1 and 2 set to fire at power up. I have grand kids visiting and they are on the PS-3. When I can get them off, I will try to meter the trigger cable from the Anthem at power on to find out if I am getting the 12 volt output. I will post my results later.

Cheers

Yes, that's the right next step. Of course it could be just a break in the wire you are using for the trigger connection. It sounds like you are doing the right stuff to diagnose this.

In any event, my Trigger 3 stuff is working fine with D2 V1.33, so it is not a systemic V1.33 problem. I don't know of any other settings in the D2 that would alter the operation of the Trigger stuff. I presume you are powering on the Main path of the D2, right? That's what ARC will be doing when it sets up to run its test sweep tones.

The only other thing I can think of is that some triggerable devices have a switch to select between pulse and continuous voltage triggers. If your amp is like that, it's possible that switch got bumped. The Anthem sends out a continuous voltage. At the Anthem mini-jack trigger output, the Tip is positive and the Sleeve is ground.
--Bob

Saved one set of ARC settings in User and another set in Installer. Tried to do a comparison and when I tried to load from Installer, I got an error saying factory default would be loaded. Luckily, the user settings could be loaded back and all was fine. Has this happened to anyone and could it be a problem with the uploaded settings in the first place?
John

Thanks for the bouncies!

If you set the upper limit for ARC at 5khz then the shape of the curve above 5khz doesn't change but it looks like the LEVEL above 5khz is adjusted a little. Am I right about this? i.e. the measured and calculated lines above 5khz are parallel but not at the same volume level, and this alone could change the overall timbre, possibly what I'm experiencing.

I'm sure things will be slightly different when I more carefully place the microphone in each position but it was late and I just wanted to see if it worked.

What is the room gain measurement? Is it how much gain the room has or the amount of gain ARC is applying? I suspect it is how much gain the room has because my room has lots of low end gain and the number is close to 4.

thanks

Not yet.

I just started playing with those this past weekend so that I could compare ARC with Audyssey Pro. I store the settings for ARC+setup in user memory and the appropriate settings for A/P in installer memory. Not the easiest A/B but it has worked, so far, about 2 dozen times.

As Peter Schuck explained it, studios mix/eq recordings on the assumption that there will be a bump from midbass room gain and since ARC flattens the response, this function allows you to re-insert the room gain in compensation. According to this, leaving out the room gain would result in an anemic sound but, imho, this depends on what you are listening to. It seemed to do well with movies but not so well with the classical music that I mostly listen to so I left the room gain in the MOVIE ARC EQ and minimized it (1dB) in the MUSIC ARC EQ. Nice to have that option.

According to Nick, a room gain of 0 to 6dB is normal. Mine is at 0.8dB and 0 for music. I am listening to this room gain factor for several days now and I prefer a room gain of around 3.5 dB for movie and around 2 dB for music. My Bass sounds a little thin with the default room gain set by ARC.

Most of the RG that are posted are around 4 dB up. Why then are mine so low (granted they are still normal)? Am I boosting too much the Bass by forcing a higher RG?

Your observations confirm, I think, the subjectivity of the matter. Schuck maintains that ARC's suggestions should result in a subjectively even response is based on the presumption that all mastering engineers were consistent in their balancing.

So...no 12 volts on the Trigger out cable and the cable ohms out fine. Looks like I need to go back through the manual and make sure I am setting this up correctly. Again, I will report back.

I will work on it later as it is now time to put on Bella Fleck - Live at the Quick.

Thank you,

What you are trying to do won't work, but it shouldn't have screwed up the Installer settings the way you describe.

The ARC Room Correction Parameters are not Saved as part of a Save User and/or Installer Settings. All that you can capture in those are the Setup menu settings and the Video Source Adjust menu settings.

The rest of the ARC stuff is kept separate, and won't even be altered if you do a Reload Factory Defaults -- which is why the ARC application has a special Erase option to get rid of that stuff if you ever want to.

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I suppose that the Anthem firmware may be smart enough to realize that the settings you are trying to reload from Installer are not consistent with the current set of ARC data currently installed (and thus is forcing you to Factory Defaults), but I've not tried to do what you are trying to do so I don't know. It would seem like an odd sort of thing for it to do though.

If you want to compare two sets of ARC results there is no way to do it other than to Upload a new set each time you want to change.
--Bob