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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 510

post #15271 of 40764
7/30/08 at 1:35am
Hello,

I need recommendations to calibrate my HTPC's video output.
I am posting this thread here because my D2 is in the chain.
First about my config:
- HTPC > D2 via DVI to HDMI cable (high grade)
- HTPC runs vista and has nVidia 8600GTS adapter
- HTPC is my only source for video (for the moment)
- D2 > Sharp XV-Z20000 projector via HDMI <> cable (very high grade)

What I did:
- I first calibrated my projector using the D2's patterns and Joe Kane's filters.
Now I am trying to calibrate the HTPC's output but I am not happy with the results. The colors looks good but somehow the whites looks gray. Playing with brightness and contrast don't improve the whites, instead my gray and black patterns looks bad.
Do you have any recommendation?
BTW I am using my proj in High Brightness mode. Otherwise it looks too dark.

Thanks
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post #15272 of 40764
7/30/08 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

What you are trying to do won't work, but it shouldn't have screwed up the Installer settings the way you describe.

The ARC Room Correction Parameters are not Saved as part of a Save User and/or Installer Settings. All that you can capture in those are the Setup menu settings and the Video Source Adjust menu settings.

The rest of the ARC stuff is kept separate, and won't even be altered if you do a Reload Factory Defaults -- which is why the ARC application has a special Erase option to get rid of that stuff if you ever want to.

--------------------------------

I suppose that the Anthem firmware may be smart enough to realize that the settings you are trying to reload from Installer are not consistent with the current set of ARC data currently installed (and thus is forcing you to Factory Defaults), but I've not tried to do what you are trying to do so I don't know. It would seem like an odd sort of thing for it to do though.

If you want to compare two sets of ARC results there is no way to do it other than to Upload a new set each time you want to change.
--Bob

Bob,
I tried this after doing new measurements with the new stand. When I went back to my original measurements, I liked the sound better. Will stick with the original ARC settings which incidentally were taken with the mic about a foot forward from the seat back and doing the symmetrical measurments better. What a surprise it sounded better when done properly
John
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post #15273 of 40764
7/30/08 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

Hello,

I need recommendations to calibrate my HTPC's video output.
I am posting this thread here because my D2 is in the chain.
First about my config:
- HTPC > D2 via DVI to HDMI cable (high grade)
- HTPC runs vista and has nVidia 8600GTS adapter
- HTPC is my only source for video (for the moment)
- D2 > Sharp XV-Z20000 projector via HDMI <> cable (very high grade)

What I did:
- I first calibrated my projector using the D2's patterns and Joe Kane's filters.
Now I am trying to calibrate the HTPC's output but I am not happy with the results. The colors looks good but somehow the whites looks gray. Playing with brightness and contrast don't improve the whites, instead my gray and black patterns looks bad.
Do you have any recommendation?
BTW I am using my proj in High Brightness mode. Otherwise it looks too dark.

Thanks

I'm assuming whites look fine when you use the D2's internally generated test patterns. That shows your projector is working fine and the output settings from the D2 are likely correct.

What data format are you sending from the HTPC to the D2? If you are sending RGB, your problem could be in the choice of Studio vs. Extended RGB or you could have the HTPC set to send out one of those but the D2 set to expect the other. The setting in the D2 is in Video Source Adjust / Picture / Input Color Space for that input source.

If you are sending YCbCr from the HTPC, it may have a bug in the way it generates that. Try RGB if you can.

Studio RGB, the normal choice for when you use RGB in the home theater environment, encodes White as digital 235. Extended RGB, often used by computer graphics cards to talk to their monitors, encodes White as digital 255.

If you have the HTPC set to send Studio RGB but the D2 set to expect Extended RGB then the D2 will mistakenly see White in the input stream as being light gray. There may not be enough calibration range to fix that, and trying to fix it will produce problems that also need to be fixed at the Black end. This is just one example of how setting mismatches could produce the problem you are seeing.
--Bob
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post #15274 of 40764
7/30/08 at 9:49am
I don't believe we've had any posts yet from ARC for AVM customers outside of the few people who live near the Anthem factory and were able to pick up their's at dealers right near there.

I'm just curious about when ARC for AVM will start showing up at US dealers, or overseas for that matter. I believe we had a couple posts from folks who ordered it and were told to expect it this week or early next week.

Please do follow up when it actually gets delivered. One thing I'd like to find out is whether most Anthem dealers end up doing the hardware install part of it for free.
--Bob
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post #15275 of 40764
7/30/08 at 1:02pm
Well I finally upgraded from v1.31 to 1.33 and from ARC1.2.1 to 1.2.5 and it is definately better. I was very reluctant to do this because mine was working and sounded great. I also remeasured using Bob's alternating positions about one foot out from the back of the chair. I can't believe the clairity, the tight solid bass and the airy highs. This is the deal of the century.
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post #15276 of 40764
7/30/08 at 1:28pm
And the crowd goes wild!



--Bob
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post #15277 of 40764
7/30/08 at 3:15pm
did some more measurements on my AVM50 using the new stand and with more accurate measurements for height and then watched Die Hard with a Vengence. The bridge collapse scenes had some of the most impressive LFE and after ARC, I was speechless. This was the most impressive example I have experienced with ARC and it passed with flying colours
John
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post #15278 of 40764
7/31/08 at 4:47am
Hello,

Before I start moving my gear around, I would like to know if my D2 allow to use the balanced (XLR) outputs for Left and Right channel in conjunction with regular single ended (RCA) outputs for the other channels (except L+R of course).

Actually I am asking because I have the intention of removing (temporarily. or "OMG" permanently?) my stereo High-End preamp from my system. Thus I will need to connect my CD player straight to my D2 and then my D2 straight to 2 monoblocs for the Left and Right channels.

So I will be very happy to get some feedback from "stereo" music freaks/purists amongst you.

For exemple, I would like to know:
- do you think the D2 will be up to the task compared to my Electrocompaniet EC4.8 preamp?
- should I connect my Electrocompaniet EMC 1 UP Cd player to my D2 via analog XLR or via the AES/EBU digital connector meaning I won't use my "supposedly" high-end upsampler?


Thanks
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post #15279 of 40764
7/31/08 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

Actually I am asking because I have the intention of removing (temporarily. or "OMG" permanently?) my stereo High-End preamp from my system.

Interesting. I am busy going the other way - putting a 2ch preamp between my sources and making the SSP just a movie source. Why did you decide to remove it? Maybe we should start a thread "preamps - integrated or separate?"...
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post #15280 of 40764
7/31/08 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Interesting. I am busy going the other way - putting a 2ch preamp between my sources and making the SSP just a movie source. Why did you decide to remove it? Maybe we should start a thread "preamps - integrated or separate?"...

The thing is, as a purist (or at least this is the way i see myself), I always thought the 2 worlds should be kept separated.
Until I discovered the D2 + ARC.....
Now i am wondering what the ARC will do for stereo music coming from a high-end player....
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post #15281 of 40764
7/31/08 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Interesting. I am busy going the other way - putting a 2ch preamp between my sources and making the SSP just a movie source. Why did you decide to remove it? Maybe we should start a thread "preamps - integrated or separate?"...

Eric - there already is a similar thread - Pre-amps with HT pass thru

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=979945
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post #15282 of 40764
7/31/08 at 8:32am
good morning, walt here.
problem! two weeks ago i loaded v1.33 and v1.22 and all went well. the "go-ahead" was given for v1.25, i downloaded same, and problems.
first, 1.25 will not run as i get a 'cannot find the mic correction file'. with that , the install is done. (which whipped out the old settings from 2 weeks back)
so, reverted to v 1.22, which starts the measurement process, measures: l;c;r and one surround, not the other and no sub. then i get a message "failed : error code 0X03.
this happens regardless of std or custom install.
attempted a re-install from original disk, was rebuffed, as there is a newer version on the desktop :i.e. v. 1.25
please help.
thx
walt
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post #15283 of 40764
7/31/08 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

Hello,

Before I start moving my gear around, I would like to know if my D2 allow to use the balanced (XLR) outputs for Left and Right channel in conjunction with regular single ended (RCA) outputs for the other channels (except L+R of course).

Actually I am asking because I have the intention of removing (temporarily. or "OMG" permanently?) my stereo High-End preamp from my system. Thus I will need to connect my CD player straight to my D2 and then my D2 straight to 2 monoblocs for the Left and Right channels.

So I will be very happy to get some feedback from "stereo" music freaks/purists amongst you.

For exemple, I would like to know:
- do you think the D2 will be up to the task compared to my Electrocompaniet EC4.8 preamp?
- should I connect my Electrocompaniet EMC 1 UP Cd player to my D2 via analog XLR or via the AES/EBU digital connector meaning I won't use my "supposedly" high-end upsampler?


Thanks

I can answer the connection part of this: The XLR outputs and the RCA outputs are always live simultaneously. As is standard for balanced connections, the voltage on the XLR connections differs by 6dB from the voltage on the RCA connectors, so if you are mixing them you will need to account for this. Typically amps with XLR inputs handle this with a switch at the input (or automatically), or of course you could do it in the Setup volume trims. See Section 2.2 of the manual.
--Bob
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post #15284 of 40764
7/31/08 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yacht422 View Post

good morning, walt here.
problem! two weeks ago i loaded v1.33 and v1.22 and all went well. the "go-ahead" was given for v1.25, i downloaded same, and problems.
first, 1.25 will not run as i get a 'cannot find the mic correction file'. with that , the install is done. (which whipped out the old settings from 2 weeks back)
so, reverted to v 1.22, which starts the measurement process, measures: l;c;r and one surround, not the other and no sub. then i get a message "failed : error code 0X03.
this happens regardless of std or custom install.
attempted a re-install from original disk, was rebuffed, as there is a newer version on the desktop :i.e. v. 1.25
please help.
thx
walt

The text file that comes with the V1.25 install kit explains this.

Your original install CD includes two licensing and calibration files. They are easy to spot as their file name is made up of numbers -- the serial number of your Anthem and the serial number of the calibrated mic.

Those two files need to be put into the place where the application gets installed for the application to run.

The easiest way to do this is to copy them into the install folder itself (i.e, where the Setup program is) prior to running the Setup program to perform the install of the new version of ARC.

Or you can do it after the install. Copy those two files to:

My Computer, Local Disk C:\\Program Files\\Anthem\\AnthemRoomCorrection

which is where the installer puts the application.

------------------------------------

Now you said you reverted to V1.2.2 but couldn't do it by re-installing it, so I'm puzzled how you did that since the V1.2.5 install should have deleted your prior V1.2.2 install.

Did you move stuff to someplace other than Program Files, or try to run the uninstalled V1.2.2 application from the CD or something?

In any event, go check what is in the AnthemRoomCorrection folder described above. The V1.2.5 version should be the one that's in there.

Let's get your V1.2.5 version working (by copying in those two licensing/calibration files) and we'll work the problem from there.
--Bob
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post #15285 of 40764
7/31/08 at 10:22am
2 questions:

1. I have my D2 (D1-HD) connected to my Sony VPL-VW60 via HDMI and have the HDMI output configuration 1 set to 1080p/60 and the configuration 2 set to 1080p/24. I use configuration 1 for everything, except when I have 1080p/24 native coming out of my PS3.

Problem - the Setup Menu for the D2 seems to be very inconsistent. Sometimes it works great (nice bold lettering and blue background), other times the menu comes up distorted - wavy and black and white, other times it does not display at all.

There does not seem to be a rhyme or reason behind when it works and when it does not. I probably have some setting on the D2 wrong, but can't figure out which one it might be.

Suggestions?

2. My Velodyne SMS-1 has only a composite video output and the D2 does not convert composite to HDMI, which is what I use to my projector. What have others with an SMS-1 done to overcome this problem (this applies to some other equipment I have that only has composite out also)?

Thank you,

Mike

PS - my SMS-1 may become obsolete for me once I get my ARC kit - which is on order....
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post #15286 of 40764
7/31/08 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post

2 questions:

1. I have my D2 (D1-HD) connected to my Sony VPL-VW60 via HDMI and have the HDMI output configuration 1 set to 1080p/60 and the configuration 2 set to 1080p/24. I use configuration 1 for everything, except when I have 1080p/24 native coming out of my PS3.

Problem - the Setup Menu for the D2 seems to be very inconsistent. Sometimes it works great (nice bold lettering and blue background), other times the menu comes up distorted - wavy and black and white, other times it does not display at all.

There does not seem to be a rhyme or reason behind when it works and when it does not. I probably have some setting on the D2 wrong, but can't figure out which one it might be.

Suggestions?

2. My Velodyne SMS-1 has only a composite video output and the D2 does not convert composite to HDMI, which is what I use to my projector. What have others with an SMS-1 done to overcome this problem (this applies to some other equipment I have that only has composite out also)?

Thank you,

Mike

PS - my SMS-1 may become obsolete for me once I get my ARC kit - which is on order....

You can get an inexpensive (Radio Shack) composite to S-Video adapter which will allow you to plug your Composite sources into the D2's S-video inputs. The video quality won't be great of course, but it WILL convert that to HDMI for output.

However you may still have an issue with the SMS-1 as the similar video from their DD subwoofers only puts out half the video fields so the scaler in the D2 has trouble digitizing the signal. I.e., it may work for "pass through" to the D2's S-video output, but you won't see a clean signal on HDMI.

--------------------------------

The Setup menu is an internally generated S-video source. It is possible that you have a hardware problem in the S-video portion of your D2. Do you have any other S-video sources? Are they having similar problems?

There was a particular batch of video boards (about 1 months production last spring) that could develop a problem like that. By this point, those that could fail likely have failed and been replaced, but I suppose yours might be a late bloomer.

Alternative, there have been quite a few reports here of folks having problems with the on screen display of Setup which appear to be due to something not having been initialized properly during their last firmware install. The fix for this is simply to re-install the firmware. The latest D2 firmware is V1.33.

So try a firmware install first, and if that doesn't fix your problem, give Anthem tech support a call.
--Bob
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post #15287 of 40764
7/31/08 at 10:56am
Bob,
Thanks for all your info and experimentation to aid us all. Last week had the pleasure of 4 hrs with Bob McConnell of Anthem. Man, does this guy know his stuff. BTW, he will be teaching at Cedia for Anthem dealers. Get in line now!
As to pricing for labor on ARC upgrade, as Bob said, it will take 15 min or better just to remove the screws. Has anyone ever removed as AVM from its box, place on service bench, remove case, remove board, replace board then reverse rest of process, then check out unit. A bit more time I would suggest. Then consulting with most customers on the phone and possibility of service call if everything cannot be perfectly reinstalled. Also,liability...if ANYTHING goes wrong, guess who's on the hook?
Yes, we will be charging for labor.
Waiting on AVM-50 ARC board, ordered 3 wks ago, but Paradigm/Anthem has been closed last wk and this wk. They will reopen Mon and I will be shipped then. Will report later.
tjg
tjg
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post #15288 of 40764
7/31/08 at 11:49am
bob: thx for the info! i am a 30 year mac guy, 3 week windows guy - basically it is all greek to me.
i am on the way to the h/t and my new pc, to find the files, & move as recommended.
hopefully all will go as per your plan
- - - and, yes, i attempted to re-run 1.22 from the hard disk, after all else failed.
walt
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post #15289 of 40764
7/31/08 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post

2 questions:


Problem - the Setup Menu for the D2 seems to be very inconsistent. Sometimes it works great (nice bold lettering and blue background), other times the menu comes up distorted - wavy and black and white, other times it does not display at all.

Sometimes, I have a similar problem with the setup menu going black and white and every time it happens, the cause is the s-video cable connector (D2 s-video out to monitor s-video in) being partially out of the D2 output s-video connector. For some reason the connector does not seem to grab well and I have to push it in and then it is good. I did not try another cable because it is a long run and I don't have a spare (35 feet) so I don't know if the problem is with the cable connector or the output D2 connector.
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post #15290 of 40764
7/31/08 at 12:33pm
I've had a similar problem with the display of the setup menu. I get diagonal lines of blue and red. Since I took my AVM50 in for ARC upgrade and reinstalled all the cables, I haven't seen it. If I do, I will certainly check there first.
John
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post #15291 of 40764
7/31/08 at 12:40pm
Follow up on S-Video "Interference Lines" problem

Some months back I reported a problem I was having with S-video input sources (including the Setup menu). The symptom was that horizontal interference lines would appear -- looking a lot like improperly blanked "horizontal retrace" lines -- and that the the image would not be stable vertically, but would jump around a bit.

It was also the case that after watching any S-video source for long enough (about 20 minutes) the problem would almost completely go away. However, if you went to another source for half an hour or so and then went back to an S-video source, the problem was back as before.

[Please note that this is quite distinct from the problem some have reported here of having "wavy" S-video or Setup menu displays, or having their Setup menu go "black and white" or vanish completely.]

Working with Anthem tech support, we had mixed results that indicated it MIGHT be a software problem related to V1.3x firmware, or that it MIGHT be a hardware problem in my video board. In fact it might be a combo where the software is not picking up properly on variations between video boards, and where my video board had a little more variation than normal.

In any event I wasn't in any rush to get this fixed and so we waited to see if the software guys would come up with something. I also didn't want to do a hardware change while I was testing the new ARC stuff.

---------------------------------------

It finally came time to swap out my video board, and the good news is that the new video board appears to have fixed this problem. I still don't know for sure whether there is a software component to this, but perhaps Anthem will figure that out when they get back the video board that exhibited the problem.
--Bob
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post #15292 of 40764
7/31/08 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post

......... My Velodyne SMS-1 has only a composite video output and the D2 does not convert composite to HDMI, which is what I use to my projector. What have others with an SMS-1 done to overcome this problem (this applies to some other equipment I have that only has composite out also)?

Thank you,

Mike

PS - my SMS-1 may become obsolete for me once I get my ARC kit - which is on order....

Mike,
The easiest is to connect directly to your TV. Myself, I use a PC monitor. If your monitor cannot accomodate an S-Video or composite input directly, you can use a TV tuner like the Vsion VTB100 as an intermediate.
-Ben
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post #15293 of 40764
7/31/08 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJG55 View Post

Yes, we will be charging for labor.
tjg

And here I thought you would be donating your time out of the shear joy of improving the world's audio!

Seriously, it doesn't surprise me that some dealers will charge, at the very least until they get a handle on how easy or hard it actually is and whether there are likely to be any problems afterwards. My understanding is that it is about the same effort as doing the DSP change for the original AVM-20 units.

And I gather there's no additional dealer margin built into the $800 MSRP to cover this?

Anyway, the real point here is to help set expectations for readers here who are considering this upgrade. We already know the MSRP is $800 (including the dealer-installable hardware and the ARC kit itself). If you were trying to guess, on average, what the dealer installation fee would be on top of that across the country, do you think budgeting, what, an additional $100 would be wise?
--Bob
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post #15294 of 40764
7/31/08 at 2:02pm
B
No, there is no extra margin built in, actually less than normal product. This is Paradigm after all. One of the lowest margin lines out there, but it does let us offer truly exceptional value products and clients continue to return.

Yes, I would like to perform this service for free, being the altrustic lad I am, to improve the universl order, but I also would like to be here in the future to further serve my clients.

Without having done this upgrade yet, depending on the market, I would estimate $100-$200.
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post #15295 of 40764
7/31/08 at 2:03pm
I don't know if anyone has haggled the asking price for the ARC with their dealer but I find it difficult to believe that there isn't a margin built into the msrp. Same for the dsp upgrade. I think it's unacceptable for a dealer to charge additional money to install it if it only takes that little time. Just one opinion.
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post #15296 of 40764
7/31/08 at 2:18pm
Yes, Bogg
that's why there are so many independent dealers out there.
tjg
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post #15297 of 40764
7/31/08 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Follow up on S-Video "Interference Lines" problem

Some months back I reported a problem I was having with S-video input sources (including the Setup menu). The symptom was that horizontal interference lines would appear -- looking a lot like improperly blanked "horizontal retrace" lines -- and that the the image would not be stable vertically, but would jump around a bit.

It was also the case that after watching any S-video source for long enough (about 20 minutes) the problem would almost completely go away. However, if you went to another source for half an hour or so and then went back to an S-video source, the problem was back as before.

[Please note that this is quite distinct from the problem some have reported here of having "wavy" S-video or Setup menu displays, or having their Setup menu go "black and white" or vanish completely.]

Working with Anthem tech support, we had mixed results that indicated it MIGHT be a software problem related to V1.3x firmware, or that it MIGHT be a hardware problem in my video board. In fact it might be a combo where the software is not picking up properly on variations between video boards, and where my video board had a little more variation than normal.

In any event I wasn't in any rush to get this fixed and so we waited to see if the software guys would come up with something. I also didn't want to do a hardware change while I was testing the new ARC stuff.

---------------------------------------

It finally came time to swap out my video board, and the good news is that the new video board appears to have fixed this problem. I still don't know for sure whether there is a software component to this, but perhaps Anthem will figure that out when they get back the video board that exhibited the problem.
--Bob

I had the OSD problem too a few months ago. I had to send my unit back to the factory. They had to completely reinstall my software to fix the problem. All is well now.
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post #15298 of 40764
7/31/08 at 4:00pm
"HELP"!!!!!!!

So I got in to Trutone to pickup my ARC and get it installed into my AVM50. alls good it went well walked out and all excited. Get home hook it all up and no Audio.
The front panel reads.. "HDMI AUDIO MUTED, HDCP MONITED NEEDED"
Anthem is closed right so I thought I'd try you always helpful forum people...lol

Cabel / PS3 / SACD NOTHING. i do get picture on the ps3 , but not on the cabel box.
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post #15299 of 40764
7/31/08 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TREVLAN View Post

"HELP"!!!!!!!

So I got in to Trutone to pickup my ARC and get it installed into my AVM50. alls good it went well walked out and all excited. Get home hook it all up and no Audio.
The front panel reads.. "HDMI AUDIO MUTED, HDCP MONITED NEEDED"
Anthem is closed right so I thought I'd try you always helpful forum people...lol

Cabel / PS3 / SACD NOTHING. i do get picture on the ps3 , but not on the cabel box.

Don't Panic!

First, you need to install V1.33 after the ARC related DSP hardware change is made. This is true even if you ALREADY have V1.33 installed.

Don't skip any steps when doing that install. Make sure you Reload Factory Defaults prior to the install and that you have no powered HDMI source or display connections during the install. If you have your settings saved in Saved User and/or Installer settings you can reload from those after the install.

After doing that, double check your connections, then start with the basics.

Can you get the Setup menu to display? If not, use the Front Panel to view your Setup menu settings. Start with the Video Output configuration menu and make any adjustments necessary to get video.

Once you can get the Setup menu to display, check through the rest of your settings and see if your settings have been reloaded properly. If not, correct them.

Since you don't have ARC results loaded into the Anthem yet, the Source Setup / Room EQ should be set to OFF for every source at this point.

By this point you should know that your Speaker Configuration settings are correct. Now go to the Speaker Calibration menu and see if the Anthem's test tones are coming out of the correct speakers.

Given that this is working, try a NON-HDMI audio source, is that working?

Now try your HDMI audio sources again.
--Bob
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post #15300 of 40764
7/31/08 at 5:10pm
The D2 V1.32c (June 26) version of the firmware has been removed from the password protected download page. This was the "alpha" software test version that was testing the new HDMI code. With any luck this means a new test version of the firmware with the next try at that new HDMI code will come out soon.
--Bob
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