Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 561

The last gasp of specialized SACD hardware before audio-only Blu-Ray starts being marketed?
--Bob

In case it isn't obvious, let me just state this clearly:

Folks with AVM-50/ARC hardware should *NOT* try the "test" ARC V1.2.8 or V1.2.8.1 versions.

Wait for a newer "test" version that fixes the hardware ID problem Jayray found.

ETA: I don't know if there is a difference here between factory produced AVM-50/ARC units and units upgraded in the field from AVM-50 to AVM-50/ARC. But it's probably best for all AVM-50/ARC users to hold off for now.

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UPDATE (11-13-08): This problem has apparently been fixed in "test" ARC V1.2.10.

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--Bob

Mebbe. I cannot see the future.

Kal,
It makes sense to me. The marketing push for Blu-Ray Profile 3.0 stuff probably won't begin until Christmas 2009 with the big push in 2010.

In any event, I suspect 2009 may be the best year to buy SACD related hardware -- mature technology at increasingly reasonable prices as manufacturers try to get what they can out of that market before the changeover.

I wonder how many folks who just purchased "bitstream decoding" receivers can be tempted to replace them with "DSD direct processing" receivers (that also still do "bitstream decoding")?
--Bob

You echo my thoughts exactly. I plan to get a new XA5400ES and horde it away somewhere....

I also wonder how much the downturn in the auto industry will affect the roll-out of Blu-Ray Profile 3.0, since factory and aftermarket auto installs are such a big percentage of the audio-only player market.

SACD and DVD-Audio could never tap that market, but I'm sure the Blu-Ray consortium was expecting it to be a big deal for their roll-out.

But all sorts of plans for the next two years will have to adjust to the new economic realities.

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Anyway, back on topic, I'll be very surprised if the Anthem v.2 products offer ANY sort of "DSD direct" audio -- either unprocessed to the DACs or processed while staying in DSD. But I would not be at all surprised to see the v.2 products include DSD input converted internally to LPCM. Since the D2 v.2 upsamples to 192KHz, it might even be a differentiator -- i.e., offered in the D2 v.2 but not in the AVM-50 v.2.

If the hardware will support DSD to LPCM conversion (and I suspect it will), this might be something added in future firmware after the v.2 launch.
--Bob

B
see if this works.

 

McNabb ARC plot.pdf 412.1787109375k . file

Yes, that works. Hang on while I give it a look...
--Bob

Asked Nick if correction for ARC 1.2.8.1 would be downloadable now, but here is his response:
"not yet, next version will be getting other changes. Trying to get a bass algorithm that'll keep the worst case while not affecting the rest."

TJG55,
Well you are down about 8dB at 15KHz in all the main speakers. This could be a characteristic of the speakers, but it could also be a pointing error.

Also do the basics of putting your ear near the tweeter to make sure it is getting audio and double check that there are no high frequency response settings on the speaker that might be improperly set.

When doing the ARC Measurements, make sure all of the mic positions are at seated ear height and that the tip of the mic is not up against or shadowed by the back of the chair. Raise the mic tip to clear the back of the chair or move it forward (away from the chair back) by a foot or so.

ARC should be able to correct up to 6dB of that if you raise the Max EQ Frequency target in the Targets window above the default 5KHz -- perhaps to 15KHz or so. You can do some test calculations with different Targets settings without having to re-Measure. Watch for an increase in errors in lower frequencies of the Calculated results as an indication you might be pushing it too far.

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Meanwhile you appear to have a pretty deep room "Null" around 150Hz to 180Hz. The Center speaker is getting the worst of this -- over 12dB down. ARC can not correct all of that.

Again, do the basics just in case this is a speaker issue and not a room issue. Make sure the speakers are wired correctly -- particularly if they have separate inputs for the different frequency drivers. For example, bi-wired speakers with the wires reversed for one driver can produce phase cancellation at the crossover between drivers. Also check to see if there is any frequency response setting for the low mid-range that might be improperly set. These speakers may also have a bass port that can be opened.

The subwoofer appears OK.

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ARC has pretty much corrected things except for that 150Hz problem in the Center speaker.

So consider if you need to repoint the speakers to deal with the 15KHz issue (particularly if they are mounted high) or if you need to re-Measure based on mic positioning.

And try some Calculation experiments with a higher Max EQ Frequency Target to see what help you can get from ARC with the 15KHz issue without further messing up the lower frequencies. At the default 5KHz setting, ARC is applying no correction for issues at frequencies above 5KHz.
--Bob

Speakers are all Paradigm Studio, 100s, cc690. adp 590. All new but 100s checked out prior with no anomalies present. Very mysterious that ALL of them show same 15k drop. maybe a HF gererating device in room? Faulty piece of equip?

Well, Bob, I took your warnings pretty seriously so:
- I did a backup on the D2
- Another backup of my ARC 1.2.5 setup files
- And another of my old 1.2.5 measurement
Just in case...
Then... I monitored my volume level all along and started to work on 1.2.9 aka 1.2.8.1
So here are my results:
- You were right about the Xover set on the D2, they are different. Now mine are around 60~65Hz all over (7.1 config)
- The music profile when set to stereo only leaves the front speakers set to "Advanced" but with no sub. Which is good.
- My gain for 7.1 movies was set to 3.9 and music to 0.7 so I took an old advise you gave me and raised my music gain to 3.
- Although there was no sub for music, ARC set my front speakers target frequency to 55 (?!). I reset it to 25 before I started calculating.
- The loud pops have disapeared )
- My movie profile sounds the same as before, I think...
- My stereo music profile sounds HUMONGOUSLY BEAUTIFUL, I LOVE IT ))))

xtrips,
For Music, remember what the release notes said for your 2.0 configuration. Even though there is no subwoofer, ARC applies a low frequency contour to your main speakers. So you need to manually reset the crossover for those back to 25Hz in the ARC Targets window and re-calculate. However, ARC will Upload a proper 2.0 configuration so there's no additional step you need to do in you Setup menu after the Upload.

It looks like you may have already done that judging from the Targets curves for Music, but just checking to make sure. You've got a deep hole in your room response at 30Hz, but you already know that. Except for that your Music Calculated curves look very good.

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Your Movie curves look good too, and the new crossovers should work well for you.

Your Center speaker Measures very hot from 40Hz to 120Hz and that's left some residual oscillations in the Calculated curve for Center. Particularly the swing between 70Hz and 80Hz of about 6dB.

If you can tone down that portion of the Measured curve for Center that would improve things. You also might want to try pulling back on the Max EQ Frequency Target to see if Center improves in those lower frequencies. It looks like you've got that Target pretty close to 20KHz right now.

That range around 70-80Hz is worth some effort to improve -- lots of content in there.
--Bob

I don't have any good suggestions for you on that other than checking their pointing and your method of setting the mic for ARC Measurements. Perhaps some of the other folks in here with more experience with room effects and room treatment can chime in.

One thing I do want to double check, though, since you are doing setups for different clients. You do know that you have to use the microphone that came with the licensing/calibration files for each ARC setup, right? You can't use one ARC mic for different setups because the calibration data locked to the serial number of the Anthem is specific to the mic that came with that particular Anthem's ARC kit. ARC will prevent you from using the wrong files for a given Anthem, but it has no way to know if you mistakenly use the wrong ARC mic taken from a different ARC kit.
--Bob

Looking at the stereophile review of your speakers, their measurement also seem to show a dip in the high frequency off axis. Have you tried to toed in your speaker ?

Yes. I get a somewhat different roll-off with my Paradigms but that is why I had to use more HF EQ with ARC.

Attachment 124233

Attachment 124234


Here's my new mesurements with arc1.29

 

110808c.doc 160k . file

 

110808m.doc 82.5k . file

Quote:"If you can tone down that portion of the Measured curve for Center that would improve things."

How do I achieve that?

The future is the download of High Resolution FLACs. Hopefully DRM free such as Linnrecord.

I seriously doubt small disk producer will convert from producing SACD to BD Audio. This is a really small market better achieved using downloads.

I'm not sure. It might respond to some bass trapping behind it or perhaps a bit more spacing away from whatever vertical surface is behind it and/or any shelf underneath it.
--Bob

Well, actually, it is a new center i just bought. Both the top and the underneath surface are curved, and it has no legs, spikes or whatever.
And it is laid on a glass shelve, itself being on a tripod with spikes.
The whole set (tripod + center) is just in front, and a bit below a very large fixed projection screen.

So what improvement do you think would be best?

What is Anthem's current plans for the D1? Any chance of a revamped version with HDMI audio, but without the video processor (aka D1v2)?

This is apparently still a current product, but I can't see why someone would opt for this model over a D2 - but, an audio-only HDMI unit would be very appealing for those who have separate video processors (and the D2 lacking a true video passthrough).

For Music, you've got essentially no Room Gain (the gradual hump near the crossovers). I suspect ARC is getting confused by the drop in Measured values from 500Hz down to 100Hz and thinks your room has no natural Room Gain to be preserved -- or has a negative Room Gain which makes no sense (so ARC uses 0 instead). I suggest you go into the Targets window and tell ARC to apply a modest amount of Room Gain -- perhaps 2dB or 3dB. Leave the "Forced" box checked.

What are you using for a subwoofer that is producing such flat Measurement from 20Hz to 300Hz? ARC had to tone down the high end of that to keep your sub from becoming too easy to localize. In any event LFE rolls off all by itself above 125Hz. I'm just surprised to see a sub working so hard up that high.

It looks to me like you could raise the Max EQ Frequency Target up to say 15KHz or even 20KHz to clean up that residual dip you've got at around 12KHz.

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For Movie, the same comments on Room Gain and Max EQ Target Frequency apply.

One real puzzle is that ARC doesn't seem to be applying any correction to your Left Rear speaker except in the tiny range from 100Hz to 200Hz. Now the errors in your uncorrected Measured curve for that speaker are not big, so this is not a huge issue, but I think you may have found a bug in the new ARC code.

Try making the adjustments in Room Gain and Max EQ Target Frequency and Calculate again. If you still see no correction in the Calculated curve across most of the Left Rear speaker frequency range (for example that uncorrected hump between 60Hz and 100Hz) I suggest you email your ARC V1.2.8.1 results file to Nick at Anthem with a suggestion that they look into that.
--Bob

What you are describing is a Statement series product equivalent to the AVM-40. I suspect Anthem didn't see enough price advantage to try to insert such a product between the D1 and the D2. And of course since Anthem doesn't sell a stand alone video processor they probably want to up-sell people to the D2.

Anyway, to answer your question, we've heard no hints here of such a product being developed.
--Bob

Does it have a rear bass port you can close or any other lower frequency response adjustments?

If not, I would start by moving it away from the screen and closer to the front edge of the shelf. That will reduce the reflected bass gain coming off the wall behind it and the shelf underneath it.

I suppose that sitting it on a pad of some sort or mounting a bass trap on the wall behind it would be the next steps. But I'm doing a lot of guessing here. Correcting issues like this is not my area of expertise.

If you don't find an easy answer, you might want to ask in either the speaker forum or the home theater setup and room treatment forum here.

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It could be the case that this speaker is simply designed to run hot in those frequencies. Some folks like a boost like that in their Center channel. Other Center speakers have settings for shelf mount vs. wall mount.
--Bob

Guys.... I currently have anthem D2 version 1.33 and arc version 1.2.2. Any reason i should upgrade the arc to 1.2.5 - which seems to be the latest on the anthem site?

There have been some bug fixes that may or may not affect you (see the change notes included in the downloaded folder), but beside that, many people here, including me, believe they are hearing improved audio with V1.2.5 over the V1.2.2 stuff.

It's hard to know if that's real, or wishful thinking, or if folks are simply getting better at doing their ARC Measurements. But it seems to be a pretty common result here.

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Anthem is in the process of testing a newer version -- currently V1.2.8.1 is the "test" version, and my results with it have been very pleasing indeed -- even better than what I had with V1.2.5. So if you want to hold off for a bit, keep an eye out for when that next version hits the public download page. It will probably be called something like V1.2.9 at that point. My guess would be sometime in December.
--Bob

Wow...some of you are wicked smart. Where did you learn about all this?

I have a simple question and would appreciate some help. I purchased a AVM 50 for my father 2 years ago. It's the latest version with the Gennum chip. I'd like to buy him the ARC set up for Christmas. I see it costs $700. I also noticed the D2 ARC upgrade is only $399. So what's the difference? Do I have to add some hardware to the AVM 50 to make ARC work?

If so, what is it and is it hard to install? I'm good with my hands and have worked on PC's before. Could I do it?

I'd really appreciate the info as I'd like to buy this soon for the holidays. Lastly is the consensus on the board that ARC is worth the cost? Is it really that good? I imagine my install would be better than most since I'm not a professional and haven't dialed in my settings. That's why this feature sounds so appealing. I'm all about automation.

Thanks for the help!

Big Tex

Thanks Bob, I too am puzzled with my room gain (room is heavily treated), with more than 20 measurements to date, my max. room gain is just 1.9 and the minimum around .4 dB. With my present measurement, its around .9 dB.

Witjh regards to the Subs, they are DIY's, 4 of them to be exact. There is a parametric eq between the D2 and the amplifier driving the subs. The high sub response is because there is no crossover on the subs.

I have added 1.6 dB of room gain (2.5 in total for movie) and 0 for music (maybe adding a dB might make the sound more full bodied). quite satisfied with the results but still experimenting.

I will email Nick about my measured results especially the uncorrected left rear speaker at certain frequencies. BTW , previously Nick told me that a room gain of 0 to 6 dB is normal.