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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 638

post #19111 of 42682
I'm now the proud owner of a D2v.* Picked it up yesterday and have spent most of the day setting it up.* It came with firmware V2.02 and ARC V2.0.1.Thanks to everyone for all the valuable info (especially Bob P.), which has been very helpful in the setup process.I've attached charts from my first ARC attempt using a Max EQ frequency target of 10KHz, any feedback would be appreciated.* So far I'm very pleased with the results with the exception of the sub, because I now have much less bass versus pre ARC.* ARC has set my sub level to -8.5 which I'm guessing is the reason.* Does this sound right?* Do I need to remeasure?* My sub is a Paradigm DSP3400.Also, the uploaded crossover value for the sub was only 60Hz, whereas the the target window in ARC shows 80Hz.* I believe that Bob had reported a similar issue with the new test version of ARC.* I went ahead and changed the sub crossover to 80Hz to match the ARC target window.* Was this the right thing to do?* Anybody have some suggestions for my sub issues?* With the exception of the sub, the rest of my speakers sound pretty nice using ARC.Thanks.-Brad
LL
LL
post #19112 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJB23 View Post

I'm now the proud owner of a D2v.* Picked it up yesterday and have spent most of the day setting it up.* It came with firmware V2.02 and ARC V2.0.1.Thanks to everyone for all the valuable info (especially Bob P.), which has been very helpful in the setup process.I've attached charts from my first ARC attempt using a Max EQ frequency target of 10KHz, any feedback would be appreciated.* So far I'm very pleased with the results with the exception of the sub, because I now have much less bass versus pre ARC.* ARC has set my sub level to -8.5 which I'm guessing is the reason.* Does this sound right?* Do I need to remeasure?* My sub is a Paradigm DSP3400.Also, the uploaded crossover value for the sub was only 60Hz, whereas the the target window in ARC shows 80Hz.* I believe that Bob had reported a similar issue with the new test version of ARC.* I went ahead and changed the sub crossover to 80Hz to match the ARC target window.* Was this the right thing to do?* Anybody have some suggestions for my sub issues?* With the exception of the sub, the rest of my speakers sound pretty nice using ARC.Thanks.-Brad

Welcome to the cool kids thread!

First of all, go set your sub crossover back to the 60Hz that ARC Uploaded.

The new version of ARC that you are using can have different values for the room correction "cutoffs" (shown in the Targets window) and the bass management crossovers (shown in Setup > Speaker Configuration after the ARC Upload). This is normal and indicates ARC is using this extra flexibility to come up with a better solution.

And it likely has nothing to do with your perception of weak bass.

The results for your sub look good down to just below 30Hz which is not unusual for a home theater sub. This is the frequency where it drops down below what I've been calling the "basic volume level" of your setup -- the flat part of the Target curve to the right of the Room Gain hump near the crossovers -- about 80dB in your setup.

There are subs that can go deeper into the subsonics. And you may get additional deep bass extension from your current sub by checking for whether it has subsonic filtering of some sort turned on, or by repositioning it a few inches to couple more strongly with your room. Try closer to a solid wall or corner to pick up some Boundary Gain at the lowest frequencies.

[Also be aware that the "test" ARC V2.0.1.1 that's currently in field testing seems to have an even better bass solution that improves the lowest bass frequencies for subs that really can go that deep. It will probably be released "officially" after some more testing -- most likely as ARC V2.0.2.]

However in your case I suspect you've just gotten used to what your uncorrected system sounded like. You have some pretty significant peaks around 30-40Hz in LF/RF and even in the sub itself (compare the red Measured curves to the black, dashed Target curves). Your sub was about 5dB above Target, and even comparing to the "flat" line of the basic volume level -- about 80dB in your setup -- your RF was a good 10dB hot near 35Hz, and your LF almost as bad. For comparison, 6dB is the same as doubling the volume. Depending on how you had your previous crossovers set up, you might not have heard much of the LF/RF down there, but the sub error would definitely be in there. These kinds of errors can give the false impression of solid bass, when in fact it is just wrong. ARC has corrected all that.

--------------------------------------

The volume level trim ARC Uploaded for you sub simply indicates that you have the internal volume control in the sub turned up too high. Read back a page or so and you'll see I gave an outline of how to set Setup > Level Calibration > Test Level and the internal volume control in your sub to get everything into the right ballpark prior to doing ARC Measurements.

[NOTE: There are a couple bugs in the Setup > Level Calibration menu in the V2.02 firmware in your D2v that will get in the way of doing this easily. You can call Anthem tech support on Tuesday (Canada is closed this Monday) for access to the "test" V2.02c firmware, or just take a guess about how much to lower your sub's volume control for the moment.]

This is also explained in detail in the ARC related post links collected in the first post of this thread.

After setting that up, and perhaps repositioning your sub a few inches as I suggested, go ahead an do a new Measurement pass with ARC.

-----------------------------------------

I'm glad you tried experimenting with raising Max EQ Frequency to 10KHz. The results look good. In fact your Measured curves are clean enough that I think you are a candidate for raising that even more -- perhaps 15KHz or even all the way up to 20KHz. You don't need to re-Measure to play with this. Just try a few different results curves looking for how far up you can go with that -- backing off if the lower frequency results start showing more errors.
--Bob
post #19113 of 42682
Thanks Milt and Bob!

Bob, you're right...it sounds illogical but none the less I want to try. While the mains do show up as performing well in the highs, they also don't have as big an impact on where the microphone is located. As I move the mic further away from each surround, it appears I loose MHz on the highs. Since the mains are directional and always face the mic head on, there doesn't appear to be an issue. The surrounds are flush within the wall and as I move the mic away, the results go to po po. The testing equipment we used allowed us to measure once below the speaker so we could confirm that the tweeter (highs) at least worked.

Quite honestly, I doubt the newer version will make that big a difference but I thought I would try. Who knows?

You guys rock...always there to answer my question. I have another one.

I now have two subs in different corners in the room. I tried running ARC with both subs operating at the same time but it didn't seem to work well. So I went back in and told the Anthem I had one sub and ran ARC. Once ARC finished, I then turned the 2nd sub back on in the AVM and turned the phase on the 2nd sub to 180. The subs are in exact opposite corners (i.e. they face each other- had no choice). So ARC has the main (tested) sub (in front of the couch) at phase 0 and I manually put the other sub (behind the couch) at phase 180. It sounds great. I feel like I had to work around ARC.

Is that the wrong thing to do? In ARC 2.0 should I tell the Anthem I have 2 subs and will ARC figure out they're in two separate locations and determine how to phase them in together or should I do what I did this time and run ARC with one sub and manually phase the other one in?

Additionally, I didn't quite understand where I would need to go to change the crossover? What’s the target’s page; the page in advanced mode? That’s in the ARC software and not on the AVM…right? Please explain how to do this. I assumed I needed to mess with the crossovers in the AVM…guess not….

Thanks EVERYONE for ALL the help! I have tomorrow off so I'll run ARC 2.0 and share the results. I'm dying the see if it makes a difference.

Oh...I just thought of this. In an effort to get more bass (before new subs) I removed the foam port covers on my B&W mains to get them a little lower. It made a 10 Hz difference. Should I put the foam port cover back in the speakers which in theory will create a higher fall off on the highs which should tell the sub to get more bass in the 40 to 50 Hz range or is it in my best interest to keep more lows on the mains? What's the sweet spot for a sub; what Hz range? What would you studs do; foam ports or no foam ports? Please see the graphs below to compare the mains and subs (before and after)

Bob...great recommendation on SVS...they rock and they were cheap. I almost bought the JL113 but the SVS was too good a deal.

Thanks for ALL the help!!!!

PS. If you have any other comments on the new charts (v.1.21) please let me know. I put in new subs, changed the ports on the mains and ported the center channel. I was trying to make it better. Surrounds still suck by ARC standards...
LL
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LL
post #19114 of 42682
This is in continuation of above....

Just checked out the targets page. According to my targets I used in Advanced mode, it had a target of 120 for the sub but after calibration ARC clearly doesn't send anything above 50 to the sub. Does that mean I need to change the target on the mains higher to force more to the sub? The target on the mains is 40. This is assuming 2.0 has the same issues at 1.21 which according to Bob probably doesn't. Just trying to learn.

In ARC 2.0 is it best to target max EQ freq to 15,000 or 20,000?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!
post #19115 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post

Thanks Milt and Bob!

Bob, you're right...it sounds illogical but none the less I want to try. While the mains do show up as performing well in the highs, they also don't have as big an impact on where the microphone is located. As I move the mic further away from each surround, it appears I loose MHz on the highs. Since the mains are directional and always face the mic head on, there doesn't appear to be an issue. The surrounds are flush within the wall and as I move the mic away, the results go to po po. The testing equipment we used allowed us to measure once below the speaker so we could confirm that the tweeter (highs) at least worked.

Quite honestly, I doubt the newer version will make that big a difference but I thought I would try. Who knows?

You guys rock...always there to answer my question. I have another one.

I now have two subs in different corners in the room. I tried running ARC with both subs operating at the same time but it didn't seem to work well. So I went back in and told the Anthem I had one sub and ran ARC. Once ARC finished, I then turned the 2nd sub back on in the AVM and turned the phase on the 2nd sub to 180. The subs are in exact opposite corners (i.e. they face each other- had no choice). So ARC has the main (tested) sub (in front of the couch) at phase 0 and I manually put the other sub (behind the couch) at phase 180. It sounds great. I feel like I had to work around ARC.

Is that the wrong thing to do? In ARC 2.0 should I tell the Anthem I have 2 subs and will ARC figure out they're in two separate locations and determine how to phase them in together or should I do what I did this time and run ARC with one sub and manually phase the other one in?

Additionally, I didn't quite understand where I would need to go to change the crossover? What’s the target’s page; the page in advanced mode? That’s in the ARC software and not on the AVM…right? Please explain how to do this. I assumed I needed to mess with the crossovers in the AVM…guess not….

Thanks EVERYONE for ALL the help! I have tomorrow off so I'll run ARC 2.0 and share the results. I'm dying the see if it makes a difference.

Oh...I just thought of this. In an effort to get more bass (before new subs) I removed the foam port covers on my B&W mains to get them a little lower. It made a 10 Hz difference. Should I put the foam port cover back in the speakers which in theory will create a higher fall off on the highs which should tell the sub to get more bass in the 40 to 50 Hz range or is it in my best interest to keep more lows on the mains? What's the sweet spot for a sub; what Hz range? What would you studs do; foam ports or no foam ports? Please see the graphs below to compare the mains and subs (before and after)

Bob...great recommendation on SVS...they rock and they were cheap. I almost bought the JL113 but the SVS was too good a deal.

Thanks for ALL the help!!!!

PS. If you have any other comments on the new charts (v.1.21) please let me know. I put in new subs, changed the ports on the mains and ported the center channel. I was trying to make it better. Surrounds still suck by ARC standards...

Re-read the ARC related post links in the first post of this thread. You'll find in one or more of those posts detailed instructions for setting up with more than one sub.

Here's a short summary:

1) Go to Setup > Speaker Configuration and specify that you have only 1 sub. This is the necessary setting for use with ARC regardless of how many subs you have. Always specify "1 Sub" if you intend to use ARC.

2) Next set the sub volumes separately. Turn one sub off (at the sub itself -- unplug it if necessary). Go to Setup > Level Calibration. Zero out every line in there. Then set Noise Level to produce 75dB SPL (the LF speaker will be the one playing). Then scroll to either sub line and, leaving that line at 0dB, adjust the volume knob in the still powered sub to produce 73dB SPL (not 75dB). Turn off that sub and turn on the other sub (again, at the subs). Adjust it's volume knob to also produce 73dB. You are done. In combo they'll produce roughly 75dB and they are balance with respect to each other. "Roughly" is close enough.

3) Next set the phase for each sub separately. With only one sub powered at a time, adjust the Polarity/Phase for that sub to best match the LF speaker. Use the phase/polarity controls on the sub itself. You'll need the phase adjustment tones on a calibration DVD -- details are in those post links in the first post of this thread. When both subs are in phase with LF then they are also in phase with each other.

4) Now do ARC Measurement (with BOTH subs powered on). ARC will hear the two subs as a combo and will correct accordingly. This is the only proper way to use ARC with more than one sub.

5) After you do your ARC Upload you should find that 1 Sub is still specified. The speaker volume trim and crossover uploaded for the sub will be the correct values for your combo of two subs.

------------------------------------------------------------

Do I understand correctly that even your other test gear showed a significant loss of high frequencies from your surrounds whenever the mic wasn't directly underneath them? If so then this is an indication that these speakers, installed this way, aren't going to be able to do the job for you. As currently installed they are too directional at high frequencies -- i.e., what ARC is showing in its charts for them, sad to say, is correct.

-----------------------------------------------------------

The way you adjust crossovers (and you really shouldn't have to do this) is to open your saved file of Measurements in ARC Advanced mode and bring up the Targets window. You adjust the "cutoffs" shown there and ARC takes care of the crossovers based on that.

Do not fiddle with the crossovers in the Setup menu after ARC has Uploaded results. The crossovers it Uploads must be paired with the room correction results it also Uploads. Make changes, if you must, in the Targets window in ARC. Accept those changes (which dismisses the Targets window), re-Calculate and re-Upload.

ETA: Note that with the new ARC, V2.0.1, the Uploaded crossovers may end up being different from the "cutoffs" you set in the Targets window. This is normal and correct.

------------------------------------------------------------

The porting issue on your main speakers is tough to predict. I would start with the speaker maker's recommended "default" configuration and only change from that if you decide you don't like what ARC does when they are set that way.

I'm afraid I can't tell by your description what these two sets of charts are supposed to be showing, but the way you set up the two subs separately invalidates the bass in these charts anyway. So you'll need to try again following the two sub procedure I outlined above (more fully described in links in the first post).
--Bob
post #19116 of 42682
Thanks Bob.

You're right about me needing to get used to the difference in the bass.* I never had the sub set at the proper level in my old system.* I'm going to turn the gain down on the sub, reposition it and then re-measure, but probably won't have time till next weekend.

I already tried raising the Max EQ frequency to 20KHz and acutally loaded those settings into my D2v and they sound realy good.* The charts for one of the rears and for one of the surrounds showed slighly more errors (not much) at the lower frequencies, which is why I backed off to 10KHz.* I didn't notice much difference with the charts for the rest of the speakers.* Since I already loaded the 20KHz settings, I thought I'd listen to them for a couple days and then load the 10kHz setting so I can do a proper comparison.

Thanks again Bob.

-Brad
post #19117 of 42682
Jayray,
I've reconfirmed the 7.1 channel to 5.1 speaker problem using the 7.1 TrueHD track from "Nightmare Before Christmas" Blu-Ray (decoded to HDMI LPCM in the PS3).

Chapters 2 and 14 are particularly revealing.

You need to concentrate on the solo singing voices which are coming out of the Center speaker rather than the music which is coming out of the other speakers. When the PS3 is set to do the down mix to 5.1 channel output the result is airy, crisp and open -- everything we've come to expect from ARC.

But when the PS3 is set to output the full 7.1 channels (meaning the D2v should be doing the down mix to 5.1 speaker output) the Center speaker sounds "uncorrected". The audio is not distorted. It is, apparently, just not corrected. It sounds, to me, just like the Center speaker sounds if you turn Room EQ OFF. In my case that means it sounds a little more like it is in a box and with some harshness in the highs. Since the other main speakers are correct the contrast between them and Center should be evident unless your Center needs little correction to begin with. The bass is also boomy although these two chapters don't have much bass so it is not obvious.

I'm going to try Golden Compass now.

ETA: By the way, with the PS3 set to use only up to 5.1 channel output, ARC V2.0.1.1 is producing simply outstanding results from this disc. There is a tremendous amount of foley (sound effects) detail added to the scenes in all sorts of subtle ways, and it gets revealed in all its glory. And the bass sounds wonderful. The music sections are just phenomenal. I'm really excited about where this new ARC is going.
--Bob
post #19118 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJB23 View Post

Thanks Bob.

You're right about me needing to get used to the difference in the bass.* I never had the sub set at the proper level in my old system.* I'm going to turn the gain down on the sub, reposition it and then re-measure, but probably won't have time till next weekend.

I already tried raising the Max EQ frequency to 20KHz and acutally loaded those settings into my D2v and they sound realy good.* The charts for one of the rears and for one of the surrounds showed slighly more errors (not much) at the lower frequencies, which is why I backed off to 10KHz.* I didn't notice much difference with the charts for the rest of the speakers.* Since I already loaded the 20KHz settings, I thought I'd listen to them for a couple days and then load the 10kHz setting so I can do a proper comparison.

Thanks again Bob.

-Brad

You are on the right track.

Remember, trust your ears. Due to the directionality of speakers at high frequencies it is possible for ARC to get bad data up that high. That means that sometimes a low Max setting will sound better even though the curves might look better with a higher setting.

Errors in the low frequencies that are within about 1.5dB either side of the Target line or even 2dB or probably ignorable. So if you get a lot of high frequency improvement and the errors introduced in the low frequencies are small like that, then you will probably find it a better compromise to keep that extra high frequency improvement.

I'll say it again. Trust your ears. You don't listen to charts.

If you post the 20KHz charts I'll give you my opinion about whether the lower frequency errors are any problem.
--Bob
post #19119 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Re-read the ARC related post links in the first post of this thread. You'll find in one or more of those posts detailed instructions for setting up with more than one sub.

Here's a short summary:

1) Go to Setup > Speaker Configuration and specify that you have only 1 sub. This is the necessary setting for use with ARC regardless of how many subs you have. Always specify "1 Sub" if you intend to use ARC.

2) Next set the sub volumes separately. Turn one sub off (at the sub itself -- unplug it if necessary). Go to Setup > Level Calibration. Zero out every line in there. Then set Noise Level to produce 75dB SPL (the LF speaker will be the one playing). Then scroll to either sub line and, leaving that line at 0dB, adjust the volume knob in the still powered sub to produce 73dB SPL (not 75dB). Turn off that sub and turn on the other sub (again, at the subs). Adjust it's volume knob to also produce 73dB. You are done. In combo they'll produce roughly 75dB. "Roughly" is close enough.

3) Next set the phase for each sub separately. With only one sub powered at a time, adjust the Polarity/Phase for that sub to best match the LF speaker. Use the phase/polarity controls on the sub itself. You'll need the phase adjustment tones on a calibration DVD -- details are in those post links in the first post of this thread. When both subs are in phase with LF then they are also in phase with each other.

4) Now do ARC Measurement (with BOTH subs powered on). ARC will hear the two subs as a combo and will correct accordingly. This is the only proper way to use ARC with more than one sub.

5) After you do your ARC Upload you should find that 1 Sub is still specified. The speaker volume trim and crossover uploaded for the sub will be the correct values for your combo of two subs.

------------------------------------------------------------

Do I understand correctly that even your other test gear showed a significant loss of high frequencies from your surrounds whenever the mic wasn't directly underneath them? If so then this is an indication that these speakers, installed this way, aren't going to be able to do the job for you. As currently installed they are too directional at high frequencies -- i.e., what ARC is showing in its charts for them, sad to say, is correct.

-----------------------------------------------------------

The way you adjust crossovers (and you really shouldn't have to do this) is to open your saved file of Measurements in ARC Advanced mode and bring up the Targets window. You adjust the "cutoffs" shown there and ARC takes care of the crossovers based on that.

Do not fiddle with the crossovers in the Setup menu after ARC has Uploaded results. The crossovers it Uploads must be paired with the room correction results it also Uploads. Make changes, if you must, in the Targets window in ARC. Accept those changes (which dismisses the Targets window), re-Calculate and re-Upload.

------------------------------------------------------------

The porting issue on your main speakers is tough to predict. I would start with the speaker maker's recommended "default" configuration and only change from that if you decide you don't like what ARC does when they are set that way.

I'm afraid I can't tell by your description what these two sets of charts are supposed to be showing, but the way you set up the two subs separately invalidates the bass in these charts anyway. So you'll need to try again following the two sub procedure I outlined above (more fully described in links in the first post).
--Bob



Thanks Bob!

If I tell the AVM I only have one sub will I need a splitter on the sub out of the AVM to get a signal to sub #2? I assume the 2nd sub output on the AVM (I'm using now) is going to be inactive if I tell the AVM I only have 1 sub. The funny thing is I performed the 1st three recommended steps correctly, I messed up when I didn't tell the AVM I had only 1 sub. Never saw that one coming. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

In the latest version of ARC, should I set the target high to 15,000 or 20,000?

I agree...the surrounds will probably not improve...but I did verify...only verified that the tweeter (highs) works (in direct line of sight). It's a long story but the HT guy didn't test the tweeter from a listening position, they were in a hurry. They went around and tested each speaker separately just to confirm the speaker was as at a minimum functioning. So all I know for sure is the speaker works, as for acoustics and set up...that's what ARC will tell us. It was I that hypothesized that distance from the mic (seating location) is the issue...I could be wrong...at least I'm hoping so. Long story short, ARC 2.0 probably won't fix it but I'm holding out hope because short of replacing these nice speakers I have no other alternative. At least I know the speaker works.

The two groups of charts show the difference in the mains and sub between changes. AVM with dipole graphs used the old sub and had the main fully ported; new sub charts include the new subs and the mains unported. I know for a fact when the baffles/ports are stuffed (sealed), the mains don’t go as low. That’s how they’re designed. Unfortunately there isn’t a default setting, the manual states it’s all user preference.

I think I’m going to port the mains up again which should push the cross over frequency higher on the mains thus pushing more low end to the sub….right? My final question is do you think there is a sweet spot for a sub (personal preference)? Assume the sub is capable of reaching all frequencies. Do you prefer for your sub to work with only 40 Hz and below or do you like it to mix in some 50 and 60 Hz sound? Personally I thought it sounded kind of strange that the sub only kicked in when it was something requiring some DEEP base (40 Hzand below). The subs seem to be very quiet for the vast majority of the bass content. The good news is when they did kick in, the room was shaking. Batman rocked!

Thanks for ALL the help!!!!! You have a lot of patience to deal with people like myself who don’t know squat about this stuff.

Update!!! It's 12:57 in the morning and I've been reading all those ARC posts on the front page. I now have more questions....arggg..... Since we think I have directional issues with my tweeters on my surrounds, should I be running the target max at 5 Mhz to eliminate the directional issue that was mentioned several times in those posts referencing running the target max to high? I've been using 20k and 15k. I've read all the sub posts, does ARC adjust for Polarity or is that always the users responsibility?

Do I need to delete the old ARC software when I load the new ARC software?
post #19120 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post

Thanks Bob!

If I tell the AVM I only have one sub will I need a splitter on the sub out of the AVM to get a signal to sub #2? I assume the 2nd sub output on the AVM (I'm using now) is going to be inactive if I tell the AVM I only have 1 sub. The funny thing is I performed the 1st three recommended steps correctly, I messed up when I didn't tell the AVM I had only 1 sub. Never saw that one coming. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

In the latest version of ARC, should I set the target high to 15,000 or 20,000?

I agree...the surrounds will probably not improve...but I did verify...only verified that the tweeter (highs) works (in direct line of sight). It's a long story but the HT guy didn't test the tweeter from a listening position, they were in a hurry. They went around and tested each speaker separately just to confirm the speaker was as at a minimum functioning. So all I know for sure is the speaker works, as for acoustics and set up...that's what ARC will tell us. It was I that hypothesized that distance from the mic (seating location) is the issue...I could be wrong...at least I'm hoping so. Long story short, ARC 2.0 probably won't fix it but I'm holding out hope because short of replacing these nice speakers I have no other alternative. At least I know the speaker works.

The two groups of charts show the difference in the mains and sub between changes. AVM with dipole graphs used the old sub and had the main fully ported; new sub charts include the new subs and the mains unported. I know for a fact when the baffles/ports are stuffed (sealed), the mains don’t go as low. That’s how they’re designed. Unfortunately there isn’t a default setting, the manual states it’s all user preference.

I think I’m going to port the mains up again which should push the cross over frequency higher on the mains thus pushing more low end to the sub….right? My final question is do you think there is a sweet spot for a sub (personal preference)? Assume the sub is capable of reaching all frequencies. Do you prefer for your sub to work with only 40 Hz and below or do you like it to mix in some 50 and 60 Hz sound? Personally I thought it sounded kind of strange that the sub only kicked in when it was something requiring some DEEP base (40 Hzand below). The subs seem to be very quiet for the vast majority of the bass content. The good news is when they did kick in, the room was shaking. Batman rocked!

Thanks for ALL the help!!!!! You have a lot of patience to deal with people like myself who don’t know squat about this stuff.

No, both sub outputs (in fact all 4 if you include the two XLR outputs) are live even if you specify "1 Sub". They always and only carry the same, identical signal. They are not independent outputs. This is also why you need to do Phase/Polarity adjustments for your two subs using the controls built into each sub. The settings in the Anthem can not produce different results on the different sub output jacks.

The 1 Sub vs. 2 Subs stuff has to do with how level calibration is done. It alters the output from the Setup > Level Calibration menu to account for the extra sub. Again, if using ARC, the 1 Sub setting is the one that should *ALWAYS* be used.

-------------------------------------------------

In ARC V2.0.1, take a look at the green Calculated results curves. You can go into Targets, set a new Max EQ Frequency value, accept that change, and do a new Calculation to see how that alters the results. What you are looking for is how high you can push that (thus improving the high frequencies) before errors start appearing in the low frequencies.

You don't need to re-Measure to do this, so you can experiment with a bunch of different setting values in almost no time.

Start by doing a Calculation at 5KHz -- the default. Save that to a file.

Now do a Calculation at 20KHz. Save that to a file. Now open each of those files in turn to see what happens at the extreme settings. If 20KHz doesn't mess up the low frequencies (compared to the what 5KHz achieved) then you are good at 20KHz. Otherwise see how much you have to back off below 20KHz to clean up the low frequencies more like what 5KHz achieves. Find a compromise setting that gives as much high frequency correction as you can get without screwing up the lower frequencies.

When you've got a result you like, Upload it and give it a listen. Trust your ears. A result that sounds better IS better, regardless of how the curves look.

---------------------------------------------------

I suggest you plug your mains' ports so that the timbre from the mains is closer to the timbre from the surrounds -- less difference as you pan around the room.

There is no particular reason to prefer the sub be limited to the lowest frequencies or to be used at higher bass frequencies as well. The key is the low end extension of your other speakers. The sub has to work high enough to take over when your other speakers can no longer do the job.

The general rule of thumb is that you want the crossover for the mains to be no lower than twice the low frequency spec for them and the crossover for the sub to be no higher than half the high frequency spec for it. This allows an octave beyond the crossover in each direction, which gets used since the crossover is not a hard cutoff but rather a gradual roll off -- i.e., audio goes to each speaker beyond the crossover. This is why you need to match the sub phase with the mains as audio in the vicinity of the crossover will actually be playing from both of them.

I really think you'll get the best results by trusting the settings ARC chooses for you.
--Bob
post #19121 of 42682
Jayray,
I tried a few likely scenes in "Golden Compass" Blu-Ray (DTS-HD MA 7.1) and was *NOT* able to reproduce the problem in the Center speaker or bass boominess when the PS3 was set to produce 7.1 channel output.

I'm not sure why there should be a difference here. The only thing I can think of is that the scenes on the other discs that showed the problem were scenes where voice from the center was accompanied by significant amounts of audio from the other speakers (as when singing to music).

In Golden Compass, the background music is almost always gone when the speeches start.
--Bob
post #19122 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post

Update!!! It's 12:57 in the morning and I've been reading all those ARC posts on the front page. I now have more questions....arggg..... Since we think I have directional issues with my tweeters on my surrounds, should I be running the target max at 5 Mhz to eliminate the directional issue that was mentioned several times in those posts referencing running the target max to high? I've been using 20k and 15k. I've read all the sub posts, does ARC adjust for Polarity or is that always the users responsibility?

Do I need to delete the old ARC software when I load the new ARC software?

This is actually a very good question. The answer is to use your ears.

Upload the 5KHz result and play some content you like that has a lot of surround to it. It doesn't have to be loud. Common sounds like doors opening in the surround field are often the most revealing.

Then Upload the best "compromise" result you get by raising the frequency and listen again.

If the lower frequency result sounds better then it is better despite the improved curves in the higher frequency result.

I'm going to guess that you will find the higher frequency result works better for you despite the directionality problem.

---------------------------------------

No you don't have to uninstall the old ARC before installing the new ARC. The new ARC will replace the old ARC.

I do suggest you delete the shortcut to the ARC application that the old installer put on your desktop. The new install will create a new shortcut for you.
--Bob
post #19123 of 42682
I had my AVM50v installed on Wednesday and am just getting my self accustomed to its video / audio settings etc.

I've noticed an interesting glitch and I'm wondering if this is a hardware or software issue.

I have a DirectTv and X-Box connected via component video. Audio is connected via digital coax and optical respectively. Since I'm one of these guys who surfs channels constantly, switching between B-Ball games etc, I specifically hooked up the SAT box video outs by component to speed the channel switching/eliminating HDMI hand shakes etc. The AVM50v is outputting 1080p/60 to my projector

I'm seeing that if I go from a 480i native source, and then attempt to switch to a 720P or 1080i source, the AVM50 freezes. I will get three blank screens- red, blue, green - and then the video distorts - either incorrect aspect ratio or a stuttering pattern of the top third of the image repeating down the entire screen. The audio is also distorted. If I toggle sources, the image corrects itself and I get the proper video input and audio... the problem does not happen if I switch between 720P and 1080i sources, just when going from 480 i to a HD resolution.

So any suggestions on next steps?
post #19124 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by flavorguy View Post

I had my AVM50v installed on Wednesday and am just getting my self accustomed to its video / audio settings etc.

I've noticed an interesting glitch and I'm wondering if this is a hardware or software issue.

I have a DirectTv and X-Box connected via component video. Audio is connected via digital coax and optical respectively. Since I'm one of these guys who surfs channels constantly, switching between B-Ball games etc, I specifically hooked up the SAT box video outs by component to speed the channel switching/eliminating HDMI hand shakes etc. The AVM50v is outputting 1080p/60 to my projector

I'm seeing that if I go from a 480i native source, and then attempt to switch to a 720P or 1080i source, the AVM50 freezes. I will get three blank screens- red, blue, green - and then the video distorts - either incorrect aspect ratio or a stuttering pattern of the top third of the image repeating down the entire screen. The audio is also distorted. If I toggle sources, the image corrects itself and I get the proper video input and audio... the problem does not happen if I switch between 720P and 1080i sources, just when going from 480 i to a HD resolution.

So any suggestions on next steps?

On the audio side - there's a setting for each source called something like "Auto Digital - Yes/No". It defaults to No, but when I set it to Yes, I periodically got distorted audio when switching sources. Setting it to No seems to have fixed that.

No idea if that's your problem (all my audio is coming over HDMI), but it was weird, and now seems to be working, and seemed to be related to that setting.
post #19125 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

I have a HTPC, and for what what it's worth I haven't had any problems after letting it settle in with the D2v. I've been playing SD DVD's and BD's, as well as HD MPEG's and AVCHD's with no problems at all.

In fact, I was all worried about 24p passthrough, but the VP in the D2v is so darn good, that the upconverting of 24p to 60p is seamless and I can't detect any judder (and I'm generally very sensitive to incorrect 24p implementation stutter, or 24p to non-24 multiple stutter).


Happy to see that you enjoy your D2v.

Which one of your HTPC are you using? Is it the one which is ATI 4xxx based?

To go through the D2 from my HTPC I am using the all DVD inputs with the following configuration

DVD1 through video Config 2 (1080p24)
DVD2 through video Config 1 (1080p60)
DVD3 through video Config 3 (1080p25)
DVD4 through video Config 4 (1080p50)

This allow me to easily watch none Region A blu-ray. Just need to set with catalyst the the rate frequency. With the ATI card none 60fps playback is not 100% smooth but not far from it. This is why for Region A I am using a Pioneer BDP-05FD. The 05FD is just an amazing player.
post #19126 of 42682
Okay, I've read the posts in the OP here, and I see how to manually set up custom cropping (e.g. SD letterbox on an HD channel).

However, I don't see how to set this as a saved setting to toggle on/off, or select? I see how I can set it manually, but is there some way to save it to a config, and then one-button toggle it on/off?

I have the serial port working well, so I can send pretty much any command, but I hope the only way to get this working isn't to "manually" set all the parameters through the serial port each time?

Thanks for any advice!
-Mark
post #19127 of 42682
The reason that I ended up moving to the AVM50v was the ARC room correction ability. I have a very unique set-up - 5.1 - in wall, planar magnetic speakers (Boehlender grabner) for L,C,R and in-wall surrounds (Energy Veritas) , which were unfortunately placed behind me instead of to the side...

Here are my results. ARC ran this at an Eq freq of 5000.

Thanks for the help!

Attachment 133735

Attachment 133736
LL
LL
post #19128 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Jayray,
I tried a few likely scenes in "Golden Compass" Blu-Ray (DTS-HD MA 7.1) and was *NOT* able to reproduce the problem in the Center speaker or bass boominess when the PS3 was set to produce 7.1 channel output.

I'm not sure why there should be a difference here. The only thing I can think of is that the scenes on the other discs that showed the problem were scenes where voice from the center was accompanied by significant amounts of audio from the other speakers (as when singing to music).

In Golden Compass, the background music is almost always gone when the speeches start.
--Bob

Bob,
I don't have either of those discs to test. Are there any others you think might work to demo this?
On another note, sometimes when I start a BD, the audio is jumbled in the trailers, pre movie junk. I also experienced no sound on the Transformers BD and had to switch sources to finally get it to go. Is this HDMI raising it's ugly head again? It is very frustrating
John
post #19129 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Bob,
I don't have either of those discs to test. Are there any others you think might work to demo this?
On another note, sometimes when I start a BD, the audio is jumbled in the trailers, pre movie junk. I also experienced no sound on the Transformers BD and had to switch sources to finally get it to go. Is this HDMI raising it's ugly head again? It is very frustrating
John

I've got some other discs with 7.1 tracks. I'll have to work my way through them if Anthem doesn't fix this problem before I get to them.

I suspect the faulty audio is going to turn out to be a glitch in the new DSP code rather than in HDMI. I've seen it every now and then as well. If you have a repeatable case, be sure to report to Nick.
--Bob
post #19130 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by flavorguy View Post

The reason that I ended up moving to the AVM50v was the ARC room correction ability. I have a very unique set-up - 5.1 - in wall, planar magnetic speakers (Boehlender grabner) for L,C,R and in-wall surrounds (Energy Veritas) , which were unfortunately placed behind me instead of to the side...

Here are my results. ARC ran this at an Eq freq of 5000.

Thanks for the help!

Attachment 133735

Attachment 133736

These don't look bad at all for a first try. Even as stands they should sound very good indeed.

Your only real problem is with the Center speaker. I'll get back to that.

Your sub is showing good response down to 35Hz. This is a little anemic for home theater setups. There are subs available that go deeper. If you expected your sub to go deeper, check how you have it set up. Some subs have adjustable subsonic filters and you may have yours set too high. Often you can increase bass extension by repositioning the sub -- even inches matter. Try closer to a solid wall or corner to get some Boundary Gain in the lowest frequencies. In addition, check whether your sub is large enough for the cubic feet of air in your listening room.

With the exception of Center, I think your speakers would react well to raising Max EQ Frequency in the Targets window -- perhaps all the way up to 20KHz. I've discussed this many times in the past few pages so I'll refer you to those posts for explanation.

Now, your Center speaker has some problems. You've got what looks like a room cancellation null at 500Hz which is deeper than ARC will correct. The residual error is about 4dB so it is worth trying to deal with. Typically this would be done by shifting the speaker closer or away from the wall behind it, up higher over the surface below it, or adding some bass absorbing material to the wall behind it to reduce the reflection that is probably contributing to this cancellation. In addition your Center speaker is very weak in the highest frequencies. ARC can correct about half of that but you may end up with more wobbles in the results curve at lower frequencies. Weakness in the high frequencies can be caused by an obstruction in front of the speaker (e.g., a grill) or by poor pointing of the speaker (directionality is more of a problem at high frequencies). If your Center is not mounted close to seated ear height, pay particular attention to its vertical pointing. In addition, some Center speakers are designed to be mounted only horizontally or only vertically, so check that you are using yours as intended.

The Center carries a lot of important content in movies, so fixing both of these issues is worth some effort.
--Bob
post #19131 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Okay, I've read the posts in the OP here, and I see how to manually set up custom cropping (e.g. SD letterbox on an HD channel).

However, I don't see how to set this as a saved setting to toggle on/off, or select? I see how I can set it manually, but is there some way to save it to a config, and then one-button toggle it on/off?

I have the serial port working well, so I can send pretty much any command, but I hope the only way to get this working isn't to "manually" set all the parameters through the serial port each time?

Thanks for any advice!
-Mark

The solution is to use the overlayed input definitions -- e.g., TV1 vs. TV2, etc. The Video Source Adjust settings are remembered separately for each of them. Set up one to use your Custom Crop setting and select that source for input when you want it.
--Bob
post #19132 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by flavorguy View Post

I had my AVM50v installed on Wednesday and am just getting my self accustomed to its video / audio settings etc.

I've noticed an interesting glitch and I'm wondering if this is a hardware or software issue.

I have a DirectTv and X-Box connected via component video. Audio is connected via digital coax and optical respectively. Since I'm one of these guys who surfs channels constantly, switching between B-Ball games etc, I specifically hooked up the SAT box video outs by component to speed the channel switching/eliminating HDMI hand shakes etc. The AVM50v is outputting 1080p/60 to my projector

I'm seeing that if I go from a 480i native source, and then attempt to switch to a 720P or 1080i source, the AVM50 freezes. I will get three blank screens- red, blue, green - and then the video distorts - either incorrect aspect ratio or a stuttering pattern of the top third of the image repeating down the entire screen. The audio is also distorted. If I toggle sources, the image corrects itself and I get the proper video input and audio... the problem does not happen if I switch between 720P and 1080i sources, just when going from 480 i to a HD resolution.

So any suggestions on next steps?

Give Anthem tech support a call tomorrow (Canada is closed today) even if the suggestion above about the Auto Dig setting works for you.

This is a bug and Anthem needs to get the details from you about how to reproduce it so they can squash it.

It may already be fixed in the "test" V2.02c(13feb) firmware. They will likely ask you to install that firmware to see.

Although there is no handshake per se when using Component, the video board in the Anthem still has to sync up with the Component signal. It sounds like you have found a problem in that.

The Auto Dig setting shouldn't have anything to do with this, but software being software I suppose it might. Auto Dig ON tells the Anthem to monitor the digital audio input you have specified and to automatically switch to the ANALOG stereo RCA audio pair for that named source (e.g., the DVD RCA jacks for any of the DVD1 through DVD4 inputs) whenever the digital audio signal goes away. This is primarily intended for some cable set top boxes that only put out digital audio if you are tuned to a digital channel -- so you need to hook up both ways.

Of course the digital audio goes away briefly while you are changing channels, so if Auto Dig is ON the software is doing some work at that point. That shouldn't interfere with the way the Component video is syncing up.
--Bob
post #19133 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

This is actually a very good question. The answer is to use your ears.

Upload the 5KHz result and play some content you like that has a lot of surround to it. It doesn't have to be loud. Common sounds like doors opening in the surround field are often the most revealing.

Then Upload the best "compromise" result you get by raising the frequency and listen again.

If the lower frequency result sounds better then it is better despite the improved curves in the higher frequency result.

I'm going to guess that you will find the higher frequency result works better for you despite the directionality problem.

---------------------------------------

No you don't have to uninstall the old ARC before installing the new ARC. The new ARC will replace the old ARC.

I do suggest you delete the shortcut to the ARC application that the old installer put on your desktop. The new install will create a new shortcut for you.
--Bob


Ok...I feel like I'm ready for the day. I was up till 2:30 last night reading all those posts.

The subs are already phased in, I've downloaded the new ARC and will run the new tests today. I had no idea I could recalculate the targets within ARC with one sweep...that's AWESOME...I always reran the sweep with the new target.

Now comes the demo content...any recommendations on a good Blue Ray disc or four that have great surround sound content or specific scenes you recommend. I'm going to nail this today. I finally have a bloody day off from work....

Thanks!!!!
post #19134 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post

Ok...I feel like I'm ready for the day. I was up till 2:30 last night reading all those posts.

The subs are already phased in, I've downloaded the new ARC and will run the new tests today. I had no idea I could recalculate the targets within ARC with one sweep...that's AWESOME...I always reran the sweep with the new target.

Now comes the demo content...any recommendations on a good Blue Ray disc or four that have great surround sound content or specific scenes you recommend. I'm going to nail this today. I finally have a bloody day off from work....

Thanks!!!!

I don't really have a good test disc in mind for this. The key is to pick a disc you really like because you will likely have to play the same passages quite a few times over the next few days.

Keep in mind that once you have created your candidate ARC files that you can Upload a different one later if you come across a disc you think has particularly interesting surround audio. So presuming both ARC results sound decent to you, you can defer the choice between them to later.
--Bob
post #19135 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post


Now comes the demo content...any recommendations on a good Blue Ray disc or four that have great surround sound content or specific scenes you recommend. I'm going to nail this today. I finally have a bloody day off from work....

Thanks!!!!

Some of my recommendations:

KID FRIENDLY: "Kung Fu Panda."

"The Dark Knight" is a good disc because the dialog is on the edge of being too quiet... it will help make sure your center in integrated in.

"Cloverfield." Bombastic and dynamic.

"The Bourne Ultimatum." Ton's of detail and dynamics.. it didn't win the Oscars for mixing and sound editing last year for nothing.

7.1 Demo: "Hellboy 2."

ADULTS ONLY: "Wanted." My favorite track of last year... very violent and not everyone will like the film, but the track is fantastic.

Music BR: "John Mayer: Where the Light Is."
post #19136 of 42682
For any newbies, FilmMixer does this for a living and has his own Emmy to show for it.

His recommendations are the real deal.
--Bob
post #19137 of 42682
I've discovered another interesting improvement in the V2.xx firmware for the D2v and AVM 50v.

In Setup > Source Setup if you specify that the Audio Input is Analog DSP or Analog Direct there is now an additional item to let you choose *WHICH* Analog input will be used!

In the older firmware the setup for VCR, for example, could use any optical or coax or HDMI jack for audio input but the only Analog input it could use was the RCA stereo jack pair labeled VCR.

For overlayed inputs like TV1 through TV4, the stereo jack pair labeled TV was the only one that could be used.

But with the 2.xx firmware you can now select which analog input to use for each Source Setup that plays analog audio, which means you could, for example reuse the same analog input for different source definitions even if they weren't overlayed definitions. Or you could use a different analog input for two overlayed definitions.

------------------------------------------

On the other hand the "HDMI Map" function which was used to counter some of the multi-channel audio assignment confusion in older DVD-A discs has now been eliminated.

------------------------------------------

For folks moving from the D2 or AVM 50 to the D2v or AVM 50v, keep an eye out for other changes that might be hidden in the new firmware, and report what you find.

For folks staying with the D2 or AVM 50, I think it likely these changes will appear in the upcoming V1.34 firmware for your units.
--Bob
post #19138 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

For any newbies, FilmMixer does this for a living and has his own Emmy to show for it.

His recommendations are the real deal.
--Bob

That is correct.

The problem is that when you meet him in person, you see how incredibly arrogant and unfriendly he is.















post #19139 of 42682
Careful there! He can see to it that you never work in this town again!


--Bob
post #19140 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Careful there! He can see to it that you never work in this town again!


--Bob

In that case, Marc is the most friendly and down to earth person I have met!


Seriously though, Marc's contributions on this forum are greatly appreciated, and he is certainly very generous, easy to talk to, and fun to hang out with......especially when he is at work!!
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