Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 906

You can do an Auto Detect in the Targets window to restore all the original values ARC derived from your Measurements.

I don't know what ARC does differently with Force turned off. Quite possibly it adjusts Room Gain to try to achieve a cleaner solution (i.e., without trying to maintain the value it Measured for the room, or any value you might have entered on your own) and reports the adjusted value. In the past Nick has told me it doesn't do that, but perhaps it does now.
--Bob

I [b]finally[b] got around to rewiring my HT. All of my equipment was served by a single 15a circuit with 14-2 wire. (lights and other outlets are on their own circuits). I ran 2 12-2 runs which are on 20a circuits. These will serve my D2v, A2 and A5 amps, HD-Tivo, Vudu, 2 Dvds, 1 CD and 1LD.

After I finished all the wiring, I started to plug things back in. I have 2 Price Wheeler "Brick Walls" (surge protectors) into which I plug the equipment and then plug those into the new outlets. Well, I noticed that the Brick Walls are only 15 amps!! So, after all my rewiring, are the 15amp Brick Walls negating my work? What do you folks recommend? Thanks

I bought the BW's about 9 years ago and Price Wheeler still makes them.

They will work, it just means they can only supply up to 15Amp and your wire is capable of 20. So yes you are "clamping" your AC to 15

There are two things to consider

1) The only thing that really clamps an AC power circuit is what the breaker trips at. I assume your breakers are 20 amp ratings.

2) The second thing to consider is how much power can the circuit deliver to the load. As you draw more current down the wire, the loss in the wire increases as the square of the current times the resistance of the total length of the wire. Based on the gauge of the wire (assumimg 12) you can look up the resistance per foot and roughly estimate the loss. It will probably be very small, much less than what happens in a typical utility brownout.

The next point to consider is how much power do you need?. Last night I happen to do some measurements in my theater since I installed a backup UPS and wanted to know my margins and run times on battery. The UPS I have can supply 865 watts. And does let me see the exact load at all times in watts. At idle with only vampire power being utilized (all unit are plugged in but in standby mode except for the DVR's which are fully powered on) I draw 155 watts thats it, 155 watts total. Roughly the same as a 150 watt light bulb!

With everything tuned on, the system draws 501 watts. The only thing not connected through the UPS is the Audio Power amplifier, the Subwoofer the subwoofer equalizer, the whole house (zone 2) amplifier, and some equipment that is only used with the zone 2 amplifier.

For reference 20 amps at 120 vols is 2400 volt-amps, 15 amps at 120 volts is 1800 volt-amps. Assuming an 80% average power factor which is low, the capacity of the 20 amp circuit is 1920 watts, and the 15 amp circuit is 1440 watts. So my total draw of 501 watts is not even taxing the supply which is a 20 amp 12 gauge wire circuit. All other equipment is on a second 20 Amp circuit.

If you want to account for the line drop you just need to measure the voltage in the theater at full load (maximum current draw) and revise the figures. IMHO you can just neglect it

Okay now the Key point. What is in the Theater that is running off the UPS.
JVC RS1 Projector
Samsung DVR's (2)
Anthem 50v
Small PC with RS232 and IR adapters
DVDO Edge Scaler (no inputs, used as a test pattern generator)
Sony CX7000ES BR Mega Changer
Sony CX777ES DVD Mega Changer
Sony PS2
Nintendo Wii
Logitech Transporter
Polk XM Radio Tuner
KDS 4x1 Component switch

In the theater but not on the UPS:
Logitech Slim Receiver
Outlaw 7 Channel 200 watts/channel power amp
Velodyne 12 Powered Sub Woofer
Velodyne SMS-1 Sub Control system
25watt x 6 stereo channels audio amp for household audio distribution

Bottom line - Measure your loads, then do the math. You may be pleasantly surprised. I was.

Hope this helps

Thanks, Bob. So the program is designed, by default, to Force its measured gain through (against its better judgement?). Interesting.

Ben

No. ARC is designed by default to maintain the Room Gain it found inherent in the room when it did the Measurements. That's the whole idea. Room Gain is a "desirable" room response characteristic which is good to preserve even as you are attempting to eliminate the other room characteristics.

Each constraint you put on the solution makes it tougher to get a clean solution with no residual errors. If you REMOVE a constraint then you can get a cleaner solution, but of course you no longer meet the goal behind that constraint in the first place.

You'll need to decide on your own how much you value ARCs efforts to preserve the Room Gain it measured. Of course if you have no significant residual errors when using the Measured Room Gain, and if you are comfortable that ARC didn't get confused by unusual Measured curves from your speakers (i.e., the Room Gain it found looks reasonable) then there's no decision to make.

Note that if you CHANGE the Room Gain value, you'll need to leave the Force box checked for that change to take effect next time you Calculate.

Changing the Room Gain by small amounts up or down from what ARC found (e.g., say +/- 0.5dB) is likely something that you will not be able to hear. So playing around a bit like that to see if you can get a cleaner solution is safe.

If you think ARC has gotten confused in its determination of Room Gain, then go ahead and make larger changes to help it. This can happen, for example, if there is a big dip in your speakers' Measured response at and just above the crossovers for example. ARC may see a negative Room Gain in that case (which makes no sense physically), so it will use a 0dB or very small Room Gain instead. Typical "good" Room Gain values will be around 2-4dB. Rooms with extensive acoustic treatments will tend to have a smaller inherent Room Gain.
--Bob

does the AVM 40 or 50 have the option to upgrade the boards to decode DTS Master and Dolby True HD ? If so, what is the charge ?

I called Antherm a few times and can't get a live person on the line.

They do not. However, you may be able to work a trade-in with your dealer to move to an AVM 50v or D2v which can do that.

Understand that if your player does the decoding of those audio formats to high bandwidth, multi-channel LPCM then you are good to go. You don't need decoding in the Anthem. For example, the PS3 and the Oppo Blu-Ray players can do that.
--Bob

Bob,

No, I did not enter a new Gain value. Seems my ARC measurements came up with 2 different values on its own. If the Force box remains checked, it uses the higher value (3.945749), otherwise it uses the other (3.736867) to calculate, all by itself. This is only for Movie; for Music, the values remained the same, Force box checked or not. That's what got me curious.

Anyway, these are my measurements. Appears I have a room problem at around 150Hz which is common to all the speakers. So far, I can't imagine the cause of it.

Ben

Thanks for the feedback Bob. I know that sources can decode the new formats, but I prefer the simplicity of the fewer cables and having the pre/pro handle all the major functions.

Thanks again.

You wouldn't have to use more cables. You can still have LPCM sent to the D2/AVM50 via HDMI. This is the method I am using from my PS3 and the same would be true of Oppo for instance.

As Shrike645 says, multi-channel LPCM is still a digital audio format. It goes from the player to the Anthem over the single HDMI cable you are already using for video.

You only need more cables if you have the player do the ADDITIONAL step of converting the digital, high bandwidth, multi-channel LPCM audio to multi-channel ANALOG audio. Then you would have to wire up the RCA cables for the analog audio No need for that with your Anthem.

I understand that you may want the Anthem to do the first step as well -- decoding the TrueHD or DTS-HD packed audio formats to LPCM -- but that will cost some money, so you've got a decision to make.
--Bob

I've finally had the courage to order an Anthem D2V/P5. But maybe my wife will consider it to be some other characteristic than courage when I tell her about the good news?

Anyway, looking forward to the delivery in a few weeks time, I'm now trying to buy an SPL meter for the ARC process. But I have a question regarding the test tone level: is it measured in dBA or dBC? The reason I ask is because the best candidates I have for reasonable cheap SPL meters in Sweden is one that only measures in dBA and the other one only measures in dBC.

So which one do I choose?

/ Påhl

I'm a firm believer in having the conversion done in one spot rather than several. The source sending the bitstream signal to the pre/pro to get decoded and output to the the analog section is ideal..for me.

"C" weighting. You'll also want "slow" response.

Most people use this particular meter from Radio Shack. You certainly don't need anything fancier than this one for home theater setup:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103667

See if you can find this, or its like, in Sweden.
--Bob

I understand. Well there are other good reasons to step up to an AVM 50v or D2v as well, so you don't have to account for the price difference solely on the basis of bitstream decoding.
--Bob

I'm curious to know what brand & model subs the Anthem community have in their HT/Music setup. I ran ARC measurement on system, which consists of D2, Paradigm Reference Studio 100, Def Tech surround, and Def Tech Reference sub (14"), but sub measurement shows steep drop below 25/30hz. I noticed some of the charts on this forum has flat/stable response down to 20hz and wondering whether I should get a bigger sub or perhaps play around with sub positioning to get better response. My sub is already 6 inches away from front wall (same wall as LF/RF speakers) and 4 feet from side wall. Not sure if moving it around will do any good.

Tomorrow I get delevered a Paradigm Sub 25. I put in a dedicated 240VAC line and Im ready to PBK it and ARC it. Ive had a Muse 18 which was on Stereophiles top list about 8 years ago.

Nice... after you ARC it, post the sub chart. I'd like to see it. :-)

Yea, I want to see it too!!!

did you get it today?

Post both charts of the PBK and the ARC... If possible steve...

Congrats on the Sub 25, should be a nice one for ya...

I have a Paradigm Servo 15 v2. As far as positioning I wouldn't assume anything until you try it. I moved mine from the front right corner up towards the seating by 8 ft. and the result was dramatic. With arc you can use a 2.1 config to do measurments and then see the affect without going through all your speakers. Well worth the time. My sub was much more capable of doing the job than I was seeing so I was motivated. Not sure what your sub is capable of. Check post #27058. My chart is there for my new position.
John

Ok, guys here are the new charts with the Sub 25. I have Salk speakers, the D2v, a BAT6200Amp, and the Oppo83. Im still tweaking as this is my first run. So any input is welcome.

The bass on this is realy tight and will rattle the rafters!! Bob I would value your input as you recall you worked with me on the Muse 18. I forced the room gain to 2.o it was naturally at slightly less than 1.

 

room.doc 91.5k . file

 

feb 10 sub25 ARC run.doc 272.5k . file

Bob
I remeasured over the last couple of days. Reduced the noise level as you suggested by 7db. Also toed in the thiel 3.7's. The sound does seem better, give me your opinion on the new charts. The sub on the anthem are at set at -8db by arc. Thanks so much.
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I just can't imagine where your sub is located, can you provide a picture or a diagram?

Alvin

Steve,
It looks like you've got the internal crossover still active in the new sub. You are Measuring down 10dB by only 90Hz. Disable that. The Anthem will take care of any necessary crossover.
--Bob

Before your next run, lower the volume knob on the sub a bit. That should get the sub volume trim closer to 0dB after the next ARC Upload.

You've got a pretty dramatic room resonance right around 30Hz which is coupling with your speakers in the front of the room. That's handled well by ARC except that the sub has a residual error spike there. Frankly, I'm surprised at how much boost ARC is delivering to your sub across most of the bass frequencies, so this little bit of overshoot is not surprising. Moving the sub a bit further from the closest wall/corner might reduce the Boundary Gain at the lowest frequencies and help with that.

I'm not sure why you are getting weak Measured curves for the sub in the middle bass. If you had more than one sub active I'd suspect that they are not properly set for Phase between them so that they are canceling each other. I'd be happier if ARC didn't have to do so much correction there, so some positioning experiments for the sub might be worth a try, but ARC does think it has corrected all of that, so no rush.

Basically, what you have right now SHOULD sound good.
--Bob

bob - Yep your right I checked. Do I need to re-ARC or just cut the crossover? Any comments on the room gain? Thanks

You need to re-ARC as you have changed the sub's output.

I'm not quite sure why ARC is finding a small Room Gain. It's probably a combination of factors. But boosting it a bit as you've done should be fine.
--Bob