Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1082

Tom,
I will try changing sources but I don.'t normally. The start up sequence has worked flawlessly but I do feel for those who still have syncing issues.
John
Just tried switching to my HDDVD player, the only other hdmi source I have and no syncing problem.

John did you try hitting pause on your DVR. This happens to me often and I have to hit pause and start or switch to tivo and back.

This is an annoying issue, and I wish Anthem would deal with it, but the sound I get for music and movies is nothing short of spectacular.

Yes, and that does work about 20% of the time. The other 80%, though. seems to require a power cycle.


John

That sequence is critical for watching a blu-ray. If all I am doing is watching my DVR, I can usually get away with turning the devices on in what ever order I want -- but that is because my DVR is configured to remember the EDID information from the D2v.

The D2v is my first HDMI pre-amp, so I don't know how other brands deal with HDMI, but there has to be a better way. Forcing your average customer to carefully turn on their equipment in a very specific order, is not reasonable.

With my AVM 20v2, I hooked my DVR and blu-ray HDMI directly up to the TV, and never had any problems. I was limited to lossy audio, though.

I realize that HDMI was not designed to make the end user happy -- it was designed to make the movie studios happy. But, high-end gear like the D2v should do a better job at hiding the problems with HDMI from the customer.

I am guessing most HDMI receivers published their EDID information even when they are "off", so the attached devices can be turned on in any order. I am really hoping that Anthem's new HDMI upgrade will implement that behaviour.

My DVI KVM even remember the EDID information from my computer monitor, so if I turn on any of my computer before the monitor it gets the information correct. My TV seems to published it's EDID even when "off", so I don't know if the D2v would need to do that as well, but it would probably be a good idea --- some TVs might not do that.

John

You have your EDID info WRONG.

Your DVR does not remember anything.
The D2v is a pass through device.

WHAT is the Display Device

Don't think I have the phase thing right at all. Ran Bob's steps, PBK and ARC but sub just sounds totally flat.

With regards to the NULL method:

1) Run Bob's steps setting TEST TONE to 75db from main listening positon with an SPL meter. Leave all other values at zero including Dolby one. Should I set speaker distances to in D2v at this point?
2) Set subwoofer level to 75db using the sub volume knob and leaving the level on D2v at zero.

Now, before I follow NULL method, where do I leave my 3 settings on SUB. The volume level, the PHASE switch and the Cutoff Frequency. What should these be set to before I follow the NULL method.

Am I literally/physically switching the positive/negative connection on back of LF speaker in reverse? Then, I play say a song with tons of bass and increment the sub distance (by .5 increments) until I get the minimal reading. Won't the reading keep going down (minimalizing) with each .5 increment in distance? As well, what reading am I looking for when it's at minimal..is it a minimal db reading such as 75db?

At what point, in all of this, do I run PBK and ARC? Sorry, I am not that techie with this and it just seems confusing..can't get it right. All the help here is much appreciated.

NULL Method:

1. After, the above calibration process is done, now reverse the polarity of the LF speaker terminals. You can do this directly at the speaker terminals or at the back/rear of your power amplifier (but NOT both).

2. Go to your sub distance setting in the Setup -> Listener Position -> Subwoofer in the setup menu.

3. Play your noise source and measure the SPL reading on your RS meter as you vary the subwoofer distance settings from 0 to max in 0.5 ft increments as you record the SPL reading from the RS meter.

4. The distance setting that gives you the MINIMUM reading is the optimal sub distance. You're done ....

Remember to reverse the LF speaker terminals (at the speaker itself or the back of the power amp) to their correct polarity.



PEAK Method:

1. Do NOT reverse LF speaker polarity as described above in NULL method.

Same steps 2-3 as above.

4. The distance setting that gives you the MAXIMUM reading is the optimal sub distance. You're done ....

My preference is for the NULL method for its easier to detect reliable nulls than peaks on the RS meter.

What make you say that?
Yes, it does. nVidia's linux tools let you take a snapshot of the EDID it sees on the HDMI port, and from then on you can use that snapshot in preference to what it sees (or does not see) via HDMI.
I wish it was, but that is not even true for video. If it was, then I would not have to tell the D2v to send 24p to my TV when watching a blu-ray.
Samsung HL67A750

John

That is a better way of putting it. I am trying to send an analog audio signal through hdmi. The only reason I am doing this is I have a secondary display whiich is intended for my kids to play their video games on and I don't want to have to run any new wiring to that tv. I should have thought about that before finishing my basement. I spoke to Anthem tech support today and they advised me to go to the setup menu and change the audio in to analog dsp. Lets see if it works. Thank you for your feedback

You have a HTPC not a DVR.

It is remembering not what the D2v is doing - it is forcing
a EDID and probably causing your problems.

Hmmmm. DVR stands for Digital Video Recorder. My HTPC is a Digital Video Recorder, so it is a DVR.
You are saying that the D2v can produce different EDID info from one moment to the next? When I took the EDID snapshot from the D2v, it was not immediately preceded by watching a blu-ray, but I really don't see how that would cause the EDID to be different.

The EDID a device produces is supposed to include all the possible "modes" that device understands.. An attached device would then pick the mode it wanted to use from that list.

As long as I don't try to watch a blu-ray first, my HTPC (happy?) and the D2v get along pretty well. The HTPC is producing 1080p60 and (generally) DD5.1 audio (depending on the show I am watching), which the D2v is quite capable of dealing with --- except (it seems) when it is fed DTS-MA first.

It is a good thing that I am able to use a EDID snapshot on the HTPC, or the D2v would have been returned. For years I have been turning the HTCP on before the TV or pre-amp (sometimes long before), and found it extremely aggravating when that sequence caused problems with the D2v. It still annoys me with the blu-ray player, but I only watch it about once a week, so I can deal with it.

BTW, the D2v reports itself as a 50v, in the EDID info.

John

SPAMMER

That is the impression I have for you.

FYI - I will never ever respond to your post again.

You come in here complaining about the D2v and
Your Equipment is the source of your problems.

If you owned a DVR like a TiVo.

If you owned a Blu-Ray player.

YOU WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEMS.

I'm DONE!

I too have had issues with my d2v with muting problems when changing sources. So I feel everyones pain.

my D2v is about 3 months old. I thought I was going crazy when I lost the volume. Turned the it off and on, and back it came. This has only happened to me once.
ger

Have fun and no worries...all will be well sooner than you think. Please also post your ARC results to see what's going on in your setup.

Please anyone?

Are you talking about stereo imaging or 5.1 playback? I'll assume stereo for the moment. Maybe what you are losing is mismatch between the speakers. How does the phantom image compare with ARC on/off playing a mono signal?

Wow,

I own two DVRs and a Blu-Ray player among other things and have problems. Most problems occur when everything is already powered up and I switch between them. I have changed wires and displays with no affect. Fear not, my miracle cure is almost here guaranteed to resolve all HDMI issues.

John

What is it?
John

On occasion I get frustrated with the quirks of HDMI and the D2v, but then something wondrous happens- I hear the best sound I can possibly imagine from my system and I see this beautiful picture on my tv and I give thanks to Anthem for enhancing the equipment I already had (Halo A51 amp;Panasonic vt series tv;Velodyne DD12 sub;Martin Logan speakers-Vantage fronts, cinema i center, fresco rears).

I'm talking about stereo imaging here. The speakers are matched and are Sunfire's CRM2 series for LF & RF. W/O ARC, as mentioed before, i get the imaging i'm used to, a diffuse 3D like image, but the sound is boomy due to room gain effects around 250Hz or so. With ARC, I get rid of the boom(thankfully) but the imaging suffers greatly. I had to reduce the target frequency down to 500hz to recover some of the imaging back.

Hence my quest to determine what audio frequecies are necessary or critical for pin-point imaging.

I also found this to be true when I tried the Anthem MRX 500 using the pre-outs connected to my Bryston amps. It seemed to strip some of the air and detail away that I was used to hearing while running my Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD analog outs into my Bryston SP1.7 pre/pro and the imaging from the Anthem suffered a little because of it.

I have constantly heard how ARC makes things sound so much "smoother" so maybe this is a trait that Anthem incorporated to roll off the top end a little?

I did not experiment by lowering the correction frequency down from 5K, but maybe I should have. You can see my chart for reference and there was not a lot of correction above 500 Hz anyways.

Your speakers have a very smooth freq. curve up to around 20,000 KHz. Not much needs to be done there.
John

Makes me wonder whether what's going on here has similarities to old style rechanneling for stereo, where the mono signal's frequency range is split into a few bands to send even ones to one channel and odd to the other. Imo the best cure for this fake stereo dreadfulness when mono release isn't available (e.g. JHE Radio One / BBC) is to create your own via downmix.

If left and right channel mids in your "before" measurements have some pretty significant differences while corrected curves are a lot closer to one another as they should be, which just as an example can happen when one speaker is close to a window and the other to an open space, then I wouldn't be surprised if all this is related.

by the way diffuse and pin-point are opposites

Wow! People keep talking about "Drinking the cool-aid". I think you have overdosed.

That actually make me happy.

Hmmm, so the D2v can't possibly be the issue, huh?

I do own a DVR. It just happens to also be a HTPC.

I do own a blu-ray player. It is a Panasonic DMP-BDT100.

I think part of your problem is that you jump to conclusions.

So, you are saying that as long as I limit the attached devices to very specific brands and types, that would solve all my problems --- Sorry that is not acceptable.

Thank you!


I know that HDMI interoperability between devices can be problematic. Saying the D2v is faultless in the equation is narrow-minded. Reading the MRX thread, I don't see reports of problems like I am seeing -- so I am hopeful that Anthem's new hardware will fix the problems.

I have repeatedly said I love the sound of the D2v. So, I have "drunk the cool-aid" as far as that goes. I am still hopeful that HDMI sync issues will be resolved.

John

One of the co founders of HDMI has created a device that he states will eliminate all HDMI issues. The prototype for this device, called the HDMI Communicator, was just shown at the ISE Show in Amsterdam the first week of February and I almost got my hands on one of the two. Now they are at his distributors for evaluations and beta tests, while more are being made at the factory. He has assured me that I will be one of the first to receive one and when I do, and if it works in my set up, I'll be sure to spread the good news.

Now just so I don't get beat up over this, my dealer/owner told me who this gentleman was and gave me his e-mail address after I let him know of my HDMI Handshake issues.

John

If it works, then great, use it. May help do people still having syncing issues.
John

Right, and I own a television, which happens to also be my laptop, and I own a hammer which happens to also be a brick.

Nothing like stretching definitions to win an argument.

Thanks!



Nick:

I play regular CD's and BD disks like everyone else and no artificial stereo effects are in play. Please see my attachments that show side firing woofers and ribbon tweeter. The ribbon is crossed at 1.5kHz from the side-woofers and goes up to 30KHz. My speakers are 2 feet from the front wall and about 3feet from the side walls. The LF/RF speakers are on 4 ft stands.
I just wanted to know what frequencies are crucual for depth and imaging. Right now, i have a target at 500Hz whoch has eliminated the room caused mid-bass boom but wanted more correction at the higher end w/o affecting imaging.


You have excellent full range speakers (plus a friendly room) for your graphs are very smooth .

I wasn't referring to your source material but to possibilities with uncorrected response. Compare the two examples below - one is from a symmetrical room while the other room has open space on the left and a large window on the right. In that room sound is holographic at central listening position without ARC and pin-point accurate, relatively speaking, with ARC, not to mention siginificantly better-sounding all around.

The reason for mentioning source materal that's processed a certain way is not to make conclusions or even begin but to suggest a possibility by way of analogy. As an aside, note that mono-to-stereo processing isn't limited to mono-original recordings - the same can apply to portions of a busy heavily produced multitrack music recording, such as vocals. It's not my idea of hi-fi but then few commercial music recordings are these days. Another "stereo-like" process is sending a mono source to a stereo or multichannel reverb unit. This is very common and can be heard more easily by disconnecting the center channel speaker (being careful not to short the leads when amp is playing) during dialog with the scene being a larger room.

To summarize, a holographic image results from dissimilarities between left and right, be it time or frequency domain. To see whether this is a possibility in your case, look at the mids in your uncorrected graphs.