Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1129

this is Nick last comment in this tread , before the issue is confirmed by Bob. i can't see any other comment by Nick.

in a erlier reply, he was saing somthing about the the issue onle was confirmed by two persons.
thats not the case any more

john: a follow up question regarding the sub flat setting.
should one expect to find a different result, comparing the flat vs: auto sub charts?
walt

i can get to 75 dB, but at a noise level of 10 - and that provides no additional sonic value. - - -so, i do not go that high.

walt

It should flatten the curve as it hits the 20Hz line. ARC doesn't show below 20Hz you just feel it.
John

From what I have read, if your sub hasn't got a good sub-sonic filter, it might bottom out at high volume and sustain damage when force to maintain high extremely low frequency output when not designed for it. So, do take care.

Ben

I was referring to his dual Sub 15s which can handle the flat setting as per Paradigms and Nick's advice. I also had a sub 15 and tried it. Otherwise your advice still holds.
John

re: flat setting responses.
my appreciation.
walt

Walt,
Maybe I'm being too literal, but the Anthem manuals say to set the 'test noise level' to 75db in the SPEAKER CALIBRATION section of set-up. Also to set any powered subs to 75db using their own gain adjustment. The manual gives some special subwoofer setup instructions for multiple subs.

I always assumed that ARC was designed to run optimally at the reference level of 75db, so I have always set my 'noise level' and sub level to 75db.
It could be that it makes no difference to ARC whether its set at 65db, 75db or 85db. Maybe Bob or Nick could clear this up.
I do think that its important to set the subwoofer level to the same SPL that you have the speaker 'test noise level' set at.

I'm sure its nothing to worry about if, even after setting the speaker and sub levels to 75db, the ARC charts show a reading along the 85db or 65db line. I have had these kinds of readings with some of the different ARC firmwares over the years, but with the latest ARC my readings have been right at 75db.

Maybe its just paranoia on my part, but I will continue to follow the Anthem manual's and Bob's suggestions to set the speaker and sub levels to 75db.
It just sounds so good in my system set up this way.


Tom

tom: thx for the response. as noted in an earlier post, it is nearly impossible for me to achieve 75 dB in the test mode - i need to set the level at +9 or +10, and even when i do so, the charts still only generate 65dB. For those of us with this issue, we understand that 75 is a number we cannot achieve - so we ignore it.
however, regarding the sub setting, you made me stop and think! i set the 'noise' at +4(prox) per anthem recommendation - however, i still set the subs to 75 dB. Not certain if there is an interconnect there. i'll remeasure setting the subs to 65 db and see what happens. for others in the group that have the 65 db issue - - where do you set your sub(s) in the measurement process??
thx
walt

[quote=thestewman;20621795]Have you changed the cutoff points ? Your L/F and R/F speakers appear capable of providing a wider response down low.
You have a huge overlap with the sub going to 120hz and the L/R front speakers going down to 60hz.


you made me think there is a problem with the cross-overs.
is the sub at 120 hz and the fronts at 60 hz 'wrong'? should they be closer?
thx
walt

The sub cutoff at 120Hz and speakers crossover at 60Hz is not unusual that's where mine are and it works great.
John

Remember, that is not the crossover in the Arc Targets but the cutoff points.
What would be interesting if you would go into your Anthem setup and write down the crossovers for all your speakers.

I know them off by heart. I know the cutoff for my sub is 120Hz and crossover is 60Hz. Front speakers are 60Hz, surrounds are 110 and back are 115. Sounds awesome The crossovers for everything but the sub, are the same as the cutoffs. Only the sub differs.
John

Walt,

1. Set LF and Sub speakers in the Setup Menu to 0dB. (You can ignore the other speakers level settings because ARC will automatically reset them).

2. Go to Test Level and set noise level to READ 75dB on your SPL meter. The noise should come only from the LF speaker.

3. Move down to Movie Sub. Noise should now be coming from your Sub. Leave level at 0dB. Adjust volume control ON SUB to read 75dB on your SPL meter. Due to room effects, level is liable to fluctuate. Adjust for the AVERAGE reading to indicate 75dB. No need to be precise here.

4. Exit processor and start ARC measurement.

Don't worry if your (calculated) charts do not read 75dB. You are not alone in this. Even the sample chart in the manual (page 46) shows only 70dB. The important thing is for all the speakers to read equally loud on the SPL. You can check it out with a test disc after loading the ARC results.

You may find that the Sub's calculated chart shows a higher level than the other speakers. This is because of the room gain. Depending on the amount of room gain measured, the difference may be as much as almost 4dB. If you feel there's too much BOOM in your sound, you can reduce the room gain figures and recalculate. You will see the Sub's level come down.

Hope above will ease your doubts. Happy listening.
Ben

Walt,
Ben has given you the textbook answer. Even if you have to raise your 'noise level' to +10 you should try to get it to 75db on your spl meter. Then set your sub to 75db using its own gain control knob. Be sure, as Ben said, to zero out the LF and SUB speaker level in set-up (or zero all the speakers). The only adjustments are made in 'noise level' in the Anthem set-up and your sub's own volume knob.

After running and uploading ARC, your uploaded speaker levels should be within a few db of each other.
I am afraid that if you set your speaker 'noise level' and sub level to a 10db difference that ARC may not be able to compensate for the difference in the speaker levels. I'm not sure what the maximum amount of correction that ARC can apply in your SPEAKER LEVEL settings, but if the amount of correction needed is more than ARC can apply you won't be getting a true ARC correction.

The second best solution would be to lower your sub's volume to match the SPL reading at whatever db the 'noise level' is reading at the +4 level that Anthem suggested.
But if you can get your 'noise level' to 75db (even if it takes +10) and set your sub to 75db, I think this will give you the most accurate ARC reading.

As Ben said, it does not matter what the ARC graph shows. I guess I'm lucky that mine shows @75 db, but if the line tracks along 85db or 65db its no big deal.
I do think its a good idea to set your 'noise level' and sub to 75db if possible.
I do think its a big deal to set your 'noise level' and sub level to the same db level.

Tom

thx to tom/\\ben et.al for the help.
as aformentioned, anthem recommends using a 'noise' setting no higher than +4
(andrew @anthem).
so, having followed their recommendations, but the sub @75 db, what i'll do next is remeasure with the noise @ +4 db, but the subs at 65 db.
(memory suggests my readings at +10 were very irregular - arc seems to like a lower reference noise level - have not run at 10 for over a year[i.e. memory comment]
a work in progress, eh?
walt

With your noise level at +4db are your mains measuring 65db on your meter? Forget the charts ARC is going to set the trim levels so that the level of the speakers match. I get the feeling you are in for a large difference in the trim levels.

Walt,

The noise level setting on the Anthem depends on how efficient your speakers are. If they are very inefficient, then the noise level will need to be higher for you to achieve 75dB on your SPL meter. Very efficient speakers will require a lower noise level to achieve the same loudness. Trust your SPL meter readings (unless it's broken ). So don't worry about how high you have to set your noise level in comparison with your neighbour's setup.

Happy listening.
Ben

That is the first good explanation I have heard. My Salk HT3 speakers are only 85db efficient. If I want to set my system at 75db with the meter I must raise the test level to +13 to achieve 75 on my meter from the listening position. I feel much better now. I also have a very large area for a room
D.Morse

Does this mean thousands of users don't have a true ARC or is this written in the instruction manual?

It was my error on quoting your post John.

I really wanted to see Yacht422 crossover points not his Target cutoffs.

Could you post them Walt ?

Stew

Insightful explanation Ben....sounds very plausible indeed. My ribbons have a measured sensitivity of 82.5dB so I have to set the test level to +9dB to achieve the 75dB reference level. Glad to know that all is OK, though i wish Anthem had thought of this solution earlier for it would have saved many AVS listeners/owners lots of anguish wondering why their systems are possibly deficient...

In my haste to finish that post, I didn't mention a couple of reasons that affect noise level setting on the Anthem.

One is how well the listening room is damped. A lively room will obviously require a lower setting and vice versa. This is apart from the size of the room to pressurize.

The other is speaker type. It is known that line sources measure differently from point sources. Normal cone speakers' (point sources) rate of sound decay is 6dB per doubling of distance while that for line sources like stats and ribbons is only 3dB. So a cone speaker will require a higher setting than a stat to achieve the same sound level at the measuring point.

Happy listening.
Ben

i can tell that on my avm 50v i have to dial it down by -2db. Speakers are 11 feed from listener - M&K s150 mk II speakers...the last ones

wow!
lots of views on the 75 db issue.
i'll post my x-overs, etc later today
- re: efficiency of speakers, my revels are: "86dB with 2.83V @ 1m (2'pie' anechoic)"impedance @ 6 ohms nominal, but 3.7 ohms at 90 Hz.
they are four way floor standing, with a freq range of: -3dB from 23Hz to 45Hz.
All from the magic book of data.
walt
oh, and the room is 16 X 23 X 10 well treated with absorbtion and diffusion.
walt

I don't know how many owners have not calibrated their 'noise level' and sub level to 75db using an SPL meter, so I can't comment on the number who may not be getting the most out of ARC.
I would think that if the 'noise level' and sub level were so far apart that ARC was not be able to compensate for the difference, that the relative volume between the speakers and sub would be off, even after uploading ARC.

SECTION 3.5 OF THE D2v MANUAL:

Test Noise Level:
This is the master volume for this menu's test noises when Dolby Volume is bypassed. Changing it changes the output of all channels. The noise comes out of the the left front channel. Using the < > buttons adjust the NOISE LEVEL so the SPL meter reads 75dB. If you do not ahve an SPL meter skip this adjustment.


I would suggest that if you don't have an SPL meter to get one.

If setting your speaker/sub db levels by ear , or not setting them at all, and they happen to be within the range that ARC can correct, then everything would be fine. If the levels are out of the range that ARC can correct by setting your speaker levels, then ARC would not be right. Actually ARC would be right, but it would not be able to adjust your settings enough to get it to come out right.

I prefer to set my noise level and sub level to 75db using an SPL meter so that I can be sure that ARC is working correctly. Why leave it to chance if you don't have to.

Tom

Just ran ARC for the 1st time and here are my charts.
Any suggestions would be most welcome!
Thanks in advance...Jim

Your charts look good. The only thing that stands out is your Left Surround. It's dropping off after 2 kHz. Check to make sure the connection on the back of your speaker is tight. Also, if you have a jump-bar connected between the top and bottom connectors, make sure it's secure and not loose. Other than that, you are Golden. If your sub has built in protection, then you might want to change the setting in the Targets Advanced View from Auto to Flat. If you do that, you will not have to re-arc. You will just need to recalculate, save, and upload the new results. Also, please post your Target View.

[color="RoyalBlue"]stew, per request: fronts are 60: ctr is 60; sur are 70; sub is 60.[/COLOR
- re: efficiency of speakers: my revels are: "86dB with 2.83V @ 1m (2'pie' anechoic)
"impedance @ 6 ohms nominal, but 3.7 ohms at 90 Hz.
they are four way floor standing, with a freq range of: -3dB from 23Hz to 45Hz.
All from the magic "REVEL" book of data.
walt
oh, and the room is 16 X 23 X 10 well treated with absorbtion and diffusion.
walt

Are they the settings set by ARC? I ask the question because there's a gap between your sub and your surrounds. I would think that ARC would have set your sub to 70 to prevent the hole between your subs and your surrounds. Then again, if ARC did set it that way, then it must be for a purpose. Anyway, just thought I would ask.