Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 123

Could be! Or it could be a somewhat more subtle example of the machine not initializing itself properly on power up.

If it's working now, and the problem does not recur, my first thought would be that you accidentally selected an alternate input that's hooked up to that player. For example, DVD1, DVD2, or whatever. You'd still get sound, but if that input was set for your Cinema speaker configuration, then of course the sub would also play.

When I first installed V1.11, not all of those new, overlayed inputs were initialized as "disabled". Some of them were installed with unexpected values. I've set all the ones I'm not using to "disabled" now, of course, but if I had selected one of them accidentally prior to that, I would probably be quite confused, too. Your new software install may have done something of the same sort. Check each of your inputs in the Setup / Source Select menu and make sure the overlayed inputs you don't actually want to use are "disabled".
--Bob

Oh, OK. This line from your ghostly subwoofer question:

"I am experiencing other problems since the new download but these are primarily all video related, that I've noticed, until now."

led me to believe you were seeing video problems at 1080i that resulted in your 1080i question.
--Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the heads up on disabling the overlay inputs.

I didn't even think about that in the old releases.


Appears the production s/w is posted. Here it is for the AVM50
http://www.anthemav.com/NewSitev2.0/....11install.zip

For the D2
http://statement.anthemav.com/HTML/P....11install.zip

Just out of curiousity, have there been many issues with the AVM 30/40 Statement DI and earlier models of Anthems products as we are seeing with the AVM50/Statement D2?

40 may have 'just' been released (but cannot confirm it).

No problems with the 30's - we've only had 1 SW update which I have not even bothered to do as there are no real issues behind the update.

Have been keeping track of this thread as I will be uprading to a 50 when I can, but all problems seem to be associated with the Scaler part of the 50/D2 (whether it be heat or software tweaking for configuration and connectivity issues).

Since the 30>50 upgrade currently has an unknown timeframe (from what Nick has emailed to me), they should have this pretty much sorted before I dive into the deep end
Based on the complexity of the 50/D2 it seems to me like Anthem has been doing a pretty good job of hunting this stuff down and trying to make it right. Of course that's easier for me to say sitting on the sidelines waiting rather than having a unit in my rack not performing properly.

I've been living with my new avm50 for a couple of weeks now. Had a terrible install, swapping out units, etc., killing one on a software download, which was a real turn off, albeit it turns out a simple setting adjustment to rgb solved 95% of my problems. Now when the device is working properly, I'm in absolute heaven. BUT, it just doesn't work properly all the time. In particular, when switching from 480 to 1080, it just can't get the handshake right all of the time. On, I would say 15% of the channel switches, I get a grey snowy screen. I need to shut the unit off, turn it back on, sometimes a couple of times, and then all is well with the handshake.
This machine is too funky for me. I'm not sure it's ready for the mainstream consumer marketplace. I'm beginning to think it may be more trouble than it is worth and I may return it, wait a few months and repurchase when they work out all of the many issues that prevent it from being an enjoyable consumer experience. There is no excuse for the device to be working ok, until you change the channel from 480 to 1080 or vica versa and then you have disrupt your viewing experience to screw with shutting it on and off until it gets it right.
If someone can state with certainty its' my particular machine or settings, I'm open to suggestions, but from reading the board, this machine just appears to have to much funk in the software at this time.

^^I think its your source unit... I have had nothing but problems with my Directv/Hughes boxes with both my D2 and Denon 5805 before it.

I would agree. MOST such problems are actually due to strangeness in the source devices. When you put the Anthem between the source and display, the source is required to do more work to set up the connection. Many current source devices do this poorly. The Anthem can cover for some of this (forcing a re-setup) but apparently not all. The newer Anthem software is much better at this, but be clear here that what it is better at is trying to make up for mistakes in the implementation in the source devices.

This is just the way HDMI is designed. The SOURCE sets up the connection. If the source has not been properly engineered and tested to work through a receiver (as is the case with far too many cable and satellite boxes), then you get failures.

The ability of the source devices to do this right is ALSO very dependent on the quality of cables between them and the Anthem. Much more than it should be. Again, the problem here is in the SOURCE devices and the different protocols and timings the source is required to implement when setting up a connection THROUGH a receiver or pre/pro. When connecting through a receiver, far too many sources are WAY too susceptible to what would otherwise be minor, cable-related signal problems.

Now the Anthem has its own problems of course. But if you are seeing re-handshake failures that often when changing resolutions then that is most likely not the Anthem screwing up. It is the source device failing to do what it is supposed to do. And again, upgrading cables between the sources and the Anthem MAY help here.

Source cable replacement has helped far more people than it should. There's no good reason why super quality cables should be needed for this. But again, it is lack of design robustness in the SOURCE devices that is causing the problem.

And this is why the same sort of complaints are showing up in threads for other HDMI receivers and external scalers from folks using the same or similar sources.
--Bob

I would agree as well on Bob's point. I currently have a Toshiba XA-2, Panasonic BluRay, Denon 3910 and a Scientific Atlantis PVR HD box hooked up to the Anthem and the handshake between all is very troublesome. I really seem to have issues when going from the PVR which outputs 1080i to either 1080p HD or BD. I have to do a lot of turning off and turning back on.
The HDMI handshake is a problem with all source devices it seems...
The price we pay to be "cutting edge"!!!
I do hope that the folks at Anthem come up with some kind of a remote driven "flash" to reset as opposed to turning off and back on - I have 2 power amps connected by triggers.
For the record - I am watching everything on the new Panasonic 65" 1080p plasma so it is about as state of the art as it can be...today! LOL
/\\/\\

You should also be aware that there are way too many HDMI cables out there right now which are neither designed nor tested to work properly at 1080p.

And even ones that SAY they will work at 1080p may not, since there are currently no standardized design or test requirements to make that claim. This is supposed to change with new (presumably more expensive) cables that are labeled for HDMI V1.3 compliance. Those cables will have to meet one of 2 design/test specs at their manufactured length. The "HDTV" cables are supposed to be reliable up to 1080i. The beyond HDTV cables (not known yet how this will be named) are supposed to be reliable up to 1080p/60Hz with deep color.

But even then, it is my understanding that each manufacturer is expected to police itself on this, so caveat emptor. Also note that if you join two cables together, the extra length means that all bets are off.

The same is true, to some degree, when you add the extra set of electrical connection losses by tacking an HDMI/DVI adapter on either end. But even worse, the chips used in DVI devices are not as robust against signal problems as the chips used in HDMI devices. The testing protocol will apparently only certify HDMI to HDMI reliability.

As for current cables, the folks at Secrets of Home Theater are supposedly beginning to test cables to provide some much needed guidance here. But I don't believe any results have been published yet as to which manufacturers can be relied upon.

My point is, if you are having problems on the re-handshake when going to 1080p, you should seriously consider trying to upgrade and/or shorten your source HDMI cables.
--Bob

I am currently using Audioquest HDMI 3 (their top of the line) on both BD and HD. Each are only .5m in length...
Yikes!

Can someone explain what "handshake" means and why this can be problematic?

Hi - for those of you having issues with handshake, let me ask a question. Do you notice that the display (TV) cycles between the blue screen (or whatever you set it to be when there is no signal) and something else (say black) at about 2 or 3 second intervals. If so, you might want to try this. Go into the settings editor and save off everything to a file on your PC (assuming you have a handy PC and serial cable). Then reset the D1-HD/D2 to factory defaults (from the front panel). Then finally reload your settings from the PC. This "seems" to have worked for me (though I have only tested it once so far). I was having a lot of issues with one of my inputs. It was cycling even when the source was turned off. So far so good. Possibly there is something stored somewhere we can't get to, but resetting to defaults can. YMMV.

It is my opinion that it may be possible that since the Anthem supports so many formats, it confuses some source devices ( Toshiba ). It would be nice if Anthem had a feature to limit the formats presented to a device. This could be done through a lookup table if their hardware would support it (just set up a list of supported resolutions and then a bit field for each input). Just a thought...

Hi...far from an authority here but...
The "handshake" mentioned is when 2 or more HDMI sources open communication and determine what each is capable/trying to deliver/receive.
720p vs 1080p for example...
I know this sounds simplistic but not sure it is more complicated than that.
Maybe one of the real tech guys in here will respond.
Cheers!
/\\/\\

Howdy!
This is indeed what is happening however I have noticed, especially with the HD-DVD that the D2 cycles through what you describe but ends up delivering a black screen. I end up shutting everything down and starting in sequence and it corrects itself.
/\\/\\

I should mention I have 1.11, and have tried a couple of times now and it seems to be working. Updating from 1.10 to 1.11 did not help me, but resetting to factory defaults and reloading did. I still sometimes don't get the HD-DVD logo, but when I press play it immediately works (rather than cycle 5 or 6 times before getting it right). YMMV...

As mentioned by DRMABUSE, there is a negotiation that goes on when the connection is established. The negotiation attempts to find the "best" point of agreement between the source and destination as to how the connection will be set up. For example, can both of them handle audio? How many channels at what bandwidth? Can both handle YCbCr, and if so what flavor of it? What resolutions are supported in the destination device? Is the source willing to send that resolution? What about frame rate?

HDMI V1.3 adds some additional stuff to that. There's a whole new color space. There's deep color (and how deep). And there's lip synch. In addition HDMI V1.3 adds more potential resolutions.

The source drives this, based on its own needs and what it reads from the EDID memory in the destination. And having decided how to do it, the source then has to communicate the result to the destination, and allow the destination time to get set to do it that way.

Believe it or not, all that is the EASY stuff -- although unusual characteristics (as with HTPC systems) do lead to problems. What's hard is that copy protection is added on top of this. And each time the characteristics of the signal changes the copy protection has to be reestablished, which is why changing between SDTV and HDTV channels is a common point of failure. Not least because cable and satellite TV set top boxes are big offenders in implementing this poorly.

Copy protection is built on top of the real signal. So if the cable is marginal for carrying the real signal, setting up and verifying the copy protection may add enough complexity that things fail -- i.e, the source device doesn't trust the destination device or sends results that confuse the destination. And so you get no connection. Or you get a connection that gets screwed up if the source decides to set the signal in a way the destination can't handle -- despite the information exchange that is supposed to prevent that.

One of the biggest problems is that the SOURCE is responsible for establishing copy protection all the way to the FINAL destination -- through all intervening devices. This is something that poorly engineered source devices often do incorrectly, or don't even try to do right. The HDMI Repeater setting in the Anthems is in there specifically to try to work around such faulty source devices.
--Bob

Hi,
sorry if this has been posted somewhere in the 123 pages!!! but if I send a 480i over
hdmi to the D2 and upconvert in the D2 to 1080i will it output the 1080i on component? I'm wondering if it will only do this for unprotected dvds. My rptv only has component inputs and I don't have any immediate plans for upgrading it.

I see that Anthem is now offering upgrades to us D1 owners. I'm probably going to do it but am a bit nervous after reading this forum although I recognize that there are probably tons of users out there with no issues.

thanks,
The Bogg

Hope someone can help.

I have tried on 2 different computers in the house to download the D2 manual and it keeps getting stuck on either page 5 or 7 or 9.

If anyone could email it to bob@tpo.ca, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, (don't worry if you get a bounce back that I did not receive, my Blackberry does that unfortunately but my main email can handle the file size).

Cheers

Bob A

I have been reading this thread for the past little while and appreciate all the insight you guys have given to me into my purchase of either the AVM50 or D2 (haven't made up my mind as to whether for me it's worth the extra money).

My system is not quite as extensive as most here but do not what to purchase the AVM50 and regret not getting the D2 down the road if I will miss out some features that will only be available for the D2.

Does anyone have confirmation that the room eq will be a feature for the D2 only or if it will be available on the AVM50?

Is anyone out-there bi-amping with this processor and if so, how are they doing it and does it work well. I could not find anywhere that you could assign zone 2 for bi-amping.

Thanks for the help.

Fitzy

Only because far too often we read posts about how some little setting can't be tweaked or some minor (or major) problem is occurring with the D2, I would like to report that I am completely happy with my D2. For those having trouble, stick with it because it is worth it.

I have had some minor issues, but all were resolvable (HTPC issue solve by Geffen DVI detective) or frankly not important. The D2 sits on the cutting edge, but we get cutting edge performance out of it. For all the "gut wrenching" over the decision to go with the D2 vs. a separate video processor and a standard pre-amp, I realized it was all for naught. The D2 is fantastic, was the right decision, and would recommend it to anyone who is evenly slightly technologically inclined. If you are the kind of person that will fiddle with settings and even enjoys doing your own setup work this is the box for you (and if you are reading posts here, then it probably is you)

If all you want a press the on button on a TV and press the channel up/down and simply watch tv, then I'd tell you to a pass. But then again, if that is all you want, then you probably aren't reading posts to this forum.

At this point, my only concern is that I'm NOT knowledgable enough to be getting the most out of the unit. I have not tweaked the sound beyond measuring distances to my seating location. I don't know if I have speaker sizes set right (I'm sure I don't), have subwoofer settings right, etc... Then there is the video. There are so many ways to tweak the picture I'm just learning what I like to see. I haven't optimized my color settings, and the noise and motion processing make me feel like a novice (which I am).

However, this means that I have many more months of enjoying the hobby of playing with the D2 before I get it all "perfect", when of course all I will have left is watching TV and movies on an awesome screen with a fantastic picture and realistic sound.

Now if I had just waited and not gotten the Panny 65" since it can't do 24fps life would be perfect.....

Bob, right click on the pdf link and select "save target as" in my documents, then open the pdf file.

Hello, I am building a home theater and am about to purchase my processor. I was planning on getting the AVM 50 but after reading this thread, am not sure that would be a good decision. I have set up an older AVM 20 and found it to be a very nice product. While I have extensive experience in setting up very complex audio systems (I am an audio consultant), when I am at home, I would just as soon have my home theater work without much effort. But I do want a lot of flexibility and quality, both of which the Anthem product line offers. To me, it seems OK to let the projector do the processing at this time. So, does it make sense to get the AVM 40 and keep things simpler? Or should I just let the projector do the source selection as well? I will initially only have 2 HDMI sources, and could add an external switcher when the need arises. One other option is to get the AVM 40 or AVM 50 and not use the HDMI section unitl they work the bugs out, connecting the two HDMI sources directly to the projector. Any thoughts from you folks who have been living with the Anthem processors? Thanks ,Rich

I agree with LEVESQUE here, but would add a step at either end:

0) Write down any settings you can't simply remember in your head.
. . .
6) Go into each and every Setup and Video Adjust menu and verify that all of your settings were properly restored. Correct any that have unexpected values.

Although the process of saving and restoring settings via a PC file is pretty painless, I have personally experienced cases where not all settings were properly restored. In addition, the new, overlayed inputs introduced with V1.10 (DVD2 and such) may initially show up with some unexpected initial values -- and in particular not all of them will be "disabled" by default.

It is also wise, after each upgrade, to re-check your audio and video calibration settings (after you know all your setup and adjust menu entries are now properly restored) to see if any of the improvements in the new software mean you should make corresponding adjustments to your calibration settings as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Also remember to use *ONLY* the Setup Editor that came with the new version of the software you are now installing -- both to save your current settings prior to the upgrade and to restore them after the upgrade. Do *NOT* rely on any previous settings file you have saved to your PC using some prior version of Setup Editor, and do *NOT* use an older Setup Editor to save or restore settings for a new upgrade.
--Bob

If your HDMI source device insists on HDCP copy protection, then you will get no Component output from the Anthems.

Typically DVDs will be copy protected in this way. Cable and satellite channels may or may not be copy protected, and that can change for individual channels from time to time.

The bottom line is that it is usually best to NOT assume you can rely on Component output from the Anthem when fed an HDMI source.

With your current TV, your best bet is probably to use Component source devices.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Note that currently HD-DVD and Blue Ray players will output high def video over Component because the manufacturers have not yet started shipping discs that prohibit that. You can also get high def Component from cable and satellite boxes. 480i and 480p Component will come from any Component source.

The Anthem can scale up 480i or 480p Component to any output resolution so long as the Component source is not "Macrovision" copy protected. Processed Component input/output from the Anthem is limited to 1080i. You can "pass through" unprocessed Component 1080p as well.

When you eventually switch to an HDMI TV, the Anthem will convert your Component sources to HDMI output. For that, you will still be limited to Component 1080i input, but the Anthem will de-interlace that to HDMI 1080p output if you wish.
--Bob

There's a pretty strong rumor that the Room EQ will be offered only for the D1 and D2, since the AVM line doesn't have the necessary, spare DSP processing power. But at this point that is still just a rumor.

The Zone 2 outputs could only realistically be used for bi-amping with stereo sources, or un-processed multi-channel analog inputs, since otherwise the D2 will down-mix the multi-channel sound to stereo for that output.

The Sub2 and Center2 outputs are already parallel to the Sub1 and Center1 outputs. I suppose you could use this to bi-amp the Center channel.
--Bob

After once having downloaded software into the avm50, making it inoperative, I will never attempt it again, and no, I didn't use a usb to serial adapter. As to the Directv unit being responsible for the handshake issues, or cables, all I can say is I bought the best cables made, have no adapter anywhere in the lines and my longest run is jsut short of 15' to the projector, all well within operational guidelines. If the AVM50 can't recognize a handshake from a hd directv box, which is the main reason to buy the unit in the first place, Anthem has a very serious problem and should either fix it, pull the unit from the market until they have working software, and I mean working 100% of the time, which is why you're paying thousands for a quality product, or warn people that the risk of the unit working with very common components is at the risk of the consumer, with the result that it should properly scare most buyers away. No vendor, regardless of how good their product works when it works, should be selling a product that doesn't work properly all of the time because it can't be used effectively with the nmost common components it has been designed to operate seamlessly with.
Sorry to be so harsh, especially to those that strongly support Anthem's valiant efforts, but no one should accept this kind of performance.