Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 124

Hello all,

1- is there a difference sonically between the D1 and the D2?
2- What are the differences between the D1 and the D2, beside video upconverting?

Thx.

The D1 and the D2 have the same audio solution. There may have been some running changes in manufacturing, but it shouldn't be anything the customer would see.

Thus the upgrade of a D1 to a D1-HD by adding the video board and related firmware effectively turns it into a D2. Please note that adding HDMI this way also means the audio side of the product can use HDMI for digital audio input.
--Bob

Unfortunately that means that every HDMI receiver and pre/pro on the planet would have to be pulled from the market until all of the faulty, legacy, HDMI source devices are recalled and repaired. This includes most cable HDTV boxes and quite a few satellite HDTV boxes.

That said, the Anthem actually does way better than most receivers and pre/pros out there in compensating for the bugs in various source devices. The HDMI Repeater setting in the Anthem, for example, is not found in any HDMI receiver I know of.

As for your specific problem, I just want to double check that you have HDMI Repeater=NO set for that AVM50 HDMI input, correct? This dramatically simplifies what the source device has to do, and improves the chances it will do it without a hiccup. If you are using that HDMI source via several different source signal paths (the buttons along the bottom of the Anthem remote), then you need to set HDMI Repeater=NO for each of those inputs.

Again, it is each source device that manages the setup and verification of the HDCP (copy protection) portion of HDMI. When the Anthem, or any other device, is placed between the source and the display the SOURCE has to do more complicated stuff. This is just the way HDMI is designed. Unfortunately there are way too many HDMI source devices out there which don't do this correctly -- largely because HDMI receivers and pre/pros are just now becoming common.
--Bob

buy.. did you bother to read my repsonse to you earlier... my directv boxes have never worked properly with my D2 or my older Denon 5805 over hdmi.. it is the only piece of gear I have consistetly had problems with...

When the new HR20 HD recorders came out, there were tons of peoples on those forums complainiing about how those boxes don't play well with some tv's... when I first got mine, it would require me to switch resolutions on power up every time before it would handshake with my JVC Pro 1080p set when directly connected (this is my living room set).... they are now on their 10th or so software download, and everytime I see the release notes, it stated "HDMI compatibility issues" have been improved.

As far as your issues with upgrading the software, I agree that it isn't the most stable funciton of this unit.. I have had my D2 lose it's scaler funcitonalitiy and have had to reinstall software multiple times.. it wasn't until I got a PCI serial card and used a PC, restored factory defaults and then upgraded until I stopped having problems.

HDMI is a tricky standard, and even Denon just announced that they are coming out with products that bear the Simply HD ceritifcation which basically means a manufacturer need to get their gear certified to meet HDMI specs to have its logo and they guarantee it will work with other certified devices...

And even knowing that it was my box that was responsible, after getting my D2, I explaned the problem to Nick, and I had software that made the problem a lot less frequent the next day... when I called Denon about it, the told me to call Directv...

And you know what my solution was? To use component and optical until D* gets their act together... In my A/B's, there was no differnce in quality.

Sorry to be so harsh, but blame Directv/Hughes and all the other manufacturers that don't manufacture to spec....or return the AVM 50 and give Anthem, and the rest of us, a break

1-Do you mean that there's no HDMI input in the D1?

2-is it possible rigth now to upgrade from a D1 to a D2 by sending the unit to anthem ? how much for the HDMI board and video upscaling ?

If I am watching a satellite broadcast (Let's say, for example, an old episold of Seinfeld) with the sat receiver set to 480i and the Anthem upconverting it to 1080i, should it be considerably better than if I were to leave the sat receiver set to 1080i?

I realize, if I leave the Sat set at 1080i, it means the satellite receiver is upconverting the signal rather than the Anthem which should be crappy compared to the Anthem doing the upconverting, right?

The reason I am asking is because I see no difference. Seinfeld looks crappy regardless how I have things set and I don't see any noticeable difference, if any at all.

I have been very patient with all the software glitches we have had so far and also very impressed with Anthems customer service in trying to resolve such issues, however, my question above makes me wonder what all the hype is about with regards to the Gennum scaler and why I spent all this $$ on this particular Anthem piece? Am I totally missing something here?

Bob....can you help?

Correct, there is no HDMI input or output -- either video or audio -- in the D1.

Anthem will upgrade a D1 to a D1-HD (i.e., a D2 with different labeling) for US $2000, or CA $2300. The procedure can be found in the D1 section of the Anthem Statement web site.
--Bob

Which satellite service are you using? DirecTV, for example, "over compresses" many SDTV channels. It is particularly bad for their retransmission of local SDTV channels back into that local market. The compression artifacts damage the image, and the information lost can not be restored by the Anthem.

When it is really bad, those artifacts will dominate what you see and so the improved de-interlacing and scaling in the Anthem won't be noticeable in comparison.

A quality SDTV feed, processed by the Anthem, can look very good indeed. The trick with the satellite providers right now is getting a quality SDTV feed. In many markets, the SDTV offered by digital cable is significantly better than what you can get from the satellite.

This has nothing to do with the satellite technology. It's just that the satellite guys are in a channel capacity crunch right now and they are compressing many of their channels to cram more in.

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On top of that, old re-run programs may not be replays of the original masters but may very well be the result of several generations of copying. If the copying was done in analog, even using pro equipment, there will be generation loss. Again, crappy source content is still going to look crappy no matter how well processed it is by the Anthem.
--Bob

Bob:

Thanks....very good explanation. I am in Canada using Bell Expressvu. There are two satellite providers and one digital cable provider to select from in our area. If I understand you correctly, the digital cable may be the better option?

I have been a Bell customer for quite a few years now and would hate to change before knowing if a change is going to provide me with noticeable improvements. Is there a way you know of to determine this without actually changing providers?

Right now, if your explanation is correct, which I suspect is, I am certainly not getting the benefit of the high tech features of the Anthem.

Bob,
thanks for the answer. You are indeed an excellent asset to this site!

Do most dvds have macrovision protection? I have done a "google" search and am still not clear about that. I mean if most of them did then there really is no point in getting the upscaler for me at this time. In fact, I'm probably just going to wait on the whole video upgrade because the Toshiba HD-XA2 I'm considering supposedly does a good job with sddvd upconversion etc... I'll wait till hdmi 1.3 is the standard and all components are stable with it (ha, more likely to see hell freeze over!)

thanks,
The Bogg

What about using an xlr splitter that would plug one end into FL output of the processor and then have two lines out to two channels on my MCA50 and then the same for the FR?

Would this splitter affect quality if indeed it does degrade the signal?

What about hooking up the FL/FR outputs with RCA and XLR at the same time? how would the increased voltage output of the xlr affect this hookup?

Thanks

Fitzy

Well even if I am correct, all you are losing is some SDTV quality, so you may not want to get too worked up over it.

SDTV is all about not doing any MORE damage. If you set things up right so that you don't do any more damage, and if you happen to get a good undamaged program to watch, then cool! But you really can't undo damage that's already been done. Unfortunately, many broadcasters cheerfully cut corners on SD quality because most people have no idea how good it COULD look.

This is why people like good DVDs over most SDTV. There's no technical reason that a digital SDTV feed (satellite or digital cable) shouldn't look as good as a good DVD.

And the reverse is also interesting. If you happen to latch on to a crappy DVD -- a bad transfer with poorly set levels, too much compression, and other production faults -- good video hardware will likely make the faults even more noticeable and annoying! In fact a bad DVD might even look worse than your best SDTV.

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I don't know how they do things in Canada, but many US cable providers will let you get set up without having to buy any hardware and with no minimum time commitment. That is, you can KEEP your satellite service, turn on cable, see if it helps, and if not, just cancel the cable paying only for the time you had the service active. Now not all cable services offer good signals either, even on their digital signals, so the only way to know for sure is to try it and see.

I can't recall reading anything about the quality of the Bell satellite service. However there's a forum here for just about anything so a search might get you some info. Even if you just find people talking about Bell's HDTV service, odds are anyone who's looked into it that much will ALSO know whether Bell is over-compressing their SDTV channels. But with the pressure to free up capacity for more HDTV -- particular for live programming (sports) -- I think all the satellite services are cutting corners as much as they think they can get away with on SDTV. Heck, DirecTV even screws up its HDTV. A lot.

Here's a test: Find an SD channel showing recently created cartoons. Cartoon Channel is a good one if you get it. Look in such modern cartoons for background areas that should be pretty much one solid color -- reds in particular. If you see that area breaking up into rectangular patches then you are seeing over-compression artifacts. And those are most likely the fault of the satellite service.
--Bob

Sure, external splitting solutions could work -- you just can't make the Anthem do it for you.

I haven't actually tried this myself, but the input impedance in each amp should be high enough that splitting an Anthem output to two amps, I think, will cause no issues.

The Anthem's XLR outputs run 6dB hot compared to the RCA outputs. If your amps can accept both, they may very well already have an attenuator switch built-in that will knock that back down for you.

Anthem makes amps as well of course, so you may just want to approach them directly on this.

You should also think carefully about what you are trying to achieve with bi-amping. Many people seem to have some pretty serious misconceptions about what it will do for you.
--Bob

This is my solution on troublesome boxes, like the Moto 6412 DVR. I just don't have time or the patience of Job (or Bob for that matter) to waste on finicky sources for marginal incremental improvement. As far as SD "garbage in" can be better scaled and deinterlaced "garbage out," but again the improvement is marginal, better when blown up to 112", but not much better. For example I catch SciFi Battlestar in SD, then I really WATCH it when it comes out on UniversalHD channel. What a difference. That's about the only channel I watch in SD and sparingly.

I was planning on running four of my five channels of my Anthem MCA50 for bi-amping my front L/R. I am not aware of any attenuator swith built inside the MCA50 but I will call anthem and ask them.

I have already tried bi-amping the MCA50 with my Klipsch RF-83 fronts using my current receiver and noticed much smoother highs with slightly tighter bass, and was happy with what it achieved. But I am purchasing either the AVM50 or the D2 in the next few weeks and would like to make sure that if I do end up bi-amping my fronts that it would be possible.

Fitzy

I will be ordering a new HDMI cable Today to hopefully combat the constant audio and or video dropouts headache I have with my Tivo S3. I have swapped out HDMI cables with extra Monoprice cables I had laying around, but it didn't help.

I'm not one to spend big money on cables, never had a reason to, but am willing to try anything at this point.

I wanted to order from our site sponsers (Blue jean/Ram), but dont know if this would be much of an upgrade to the Monoprice cables I have now.

Should I get a second cable as well, and replace the HDMI out of the Anthem to the TV?

A few of you swapped cables out and it helped. Would you mind directing me to what worked for you?


Thanks,

Mark

I don't agree with you. On top of the D2 I had the DVDO VP50 for a few months. In my setup the D2 is more stable. The main issue I had was freezing and handshaking issues. The freezing issue was really bad since my projector was frozen to a point that a power cycle was required to bring it back. I resolved ALL the FREEZING issues with a set of ULTRALINK PRO HDMI cables. The handshaking between my HDA1 and my projector was difficult but had anything to do with the D2. The D2 in the loop just make the thing a bit slower. Now I just got a Pioneer Blu-Ray BDP-HD1. The connection is fast and rock solid. Now I got rid of the HDA1 and ordered a XA2 and hope it will be as rock solid than the BDP-HD1. My SA8300HD is rock solid since I changed the Cable.

Conclusion most of the issues we are getting are related to bad HDMI implementation in lots of sources.

BAD NEWS

1.11b does not fix 1080i problem. I installed it on my D2 and it did not fix issue. Called Anthem and they said hat they are aware of that fact. Why would they release software and claim that i fixes issue and it does not?

I am using the Ultralink Pro HDMI and it work flawlessly. I also got good results with Wireworld 5.2 series and audioquest HDMI-3. Meanwhile, the last two didn't provide any benefice compared to the Ultralink and since they are way more expensive, I returned them and kept the Ultralink.

All that means is they don't have a handle on the problem yet. Since the problem only affects some machines (rumor is about 10%) what they changed in 1.11b may have simply concealed the problem in their internal test machine instead of actually fixing it.

We need to get a handle on 1.11b here. As I recall we have one report that 1.11b eliminates audio problems on power up -- a good thing.

Does it also eliminate video problems on power up?

Does it fix (or perhaps conceal) the 1080i problem for anyone?

Does it fix any of the other more nuisance issues out there such as unexpected changes of the Scale Out setting for the input selected at power up? Or the inability to use Simulcast because the remote control procedure unexpectedly also shifts you to the next overlayed input?

Does it install more reliably?

Does it BREAK anything?
--Bob

I have cable with a Scientific Atlanta DVR. There is a significant difference in video output (better color, more definition, and a full 16:9 output without using the "stretch" option meaning that the aspect ratio of the picture is more pleasing)using 1080i to the Anthem and 1080i back to my TV as opposed to just 1080i from the cable box to the TV. Thank goodness since I am a big basketball fan and my San Antonio Spurs broadcast half their games on a crappy SD channel! I am very happy with the D2, though I am still learning how to best take advantage of it.

Well, I owe the board and Anthem an apology, I had hdmi repeater set to yes. I have no idea why. The other thing I can't seem to understand is how to set the "frame lock" control and, as always, would appreciate your help.

I am one of the 10% group. I have been working with Nick at Anthem because I cannot get 1.11 or 1.11b to install. I have tried with 3 different pc's and laptops with no success, and followed all of Bob P and Levesque's instructions. I went from 1.06 to 1.10 with no problems at all. I have the 1080i bug with my directv H-10 series. Is there anyone with the D2 and Directv outputting 1080i that is not having a problem. If you are not having the problem please give any tips on cables or any item we may have overlooked. Possibly even the software version on the stb. On my Hd Dvr there was a software upgrade on the 19th. I moved it from the bedroom to the D2 for curiosity and experienced the same problem as before. For the H10 there is no softwre upgrade scheduled as of yet. I have confidence that Anthem is working on this night and day.

Dick

The instructions regarding how and when to use Frame Lock in the Video Source Adjust menu portion of the Anthem V1.1x manual really say it as best as it can be said.

If your display doesn't accept /24Hz video input (i.e., film rate input) and offer the option of displaying it at a refresh rate which is a multiple of /24Hz, then leave Frame Lock in it's factory default setting of OFF. Frame Lock offers nothing for that very common type of display. This would include all traditional TVs and MOST of the HDTVs out there.

If you have one of the few displays out there which can accept film rate video input and produce judder free imagery by displaying it at a film rate refresh rate then you may want to experiment with Frame Lock = Auto.

To do this, FIRST set your default video output frame rate to /24Hz (or /48Hz using the custom options in Live Video Settings Editor). For most such displays today, this will be 1080p/24Hz or 1080p/48Hz. Then use the Frame Lock = Auto setting to automatically change that output frame rate back to /60Hz when viewing video based content (TV shows or DVDs of TV shows, and also DVDs of some computer generated animated movies that have been re-mastered "direct to DVD"). With Frame Lock = Auto, the Anthem senses the incoming frame rate and tracks it for output.

With Frame Lock = Auto, a source that sends /24Hz video, such as a 1080p/24Hz HD-DVD or Blue Ray player, will have that video go through the Anthem and remain at /24Hz.

So normal TV, and /24Hz output devices all work automatically for you.

However, when watching a film-stock based movie on TV or standard DVD, change to Frame Lock = OFF! This turns off the automatic tracking of the input frame rate, and since you have set your default output frame rate to /24Hz the Anthem will now convert the 30Hz input from the TV channel or DVD to 24Hz output by detecting and removing the replicated fields that are already inserted into that film-based content to raise it up to the 30Hz TV rate needed by normal TVs.

For TV inputs then, you would likely start with Frame Lock = Auto and temporarily change it to OFF when watching a movie. For standard DVD inputs you would likely start with Frame Lock = OFF and temporarily change it to AUTO when watching a DVD of a TV show. For a suitable HD-DVD or Blue Ray player you would likely start with Frame Lock = Auto and temporarily change it to OFF when watching a STANDARD DVD which happens to also be of a TV show -- with the player's output set to 480i for standard DVD playback.

There's a shortcut to alter the Frame Lock setting available under the Mode key on the Anthem remote.

Again, MOST TVs and displays out there right now can not take advantage of the Anthem's Frame Lock feature, so just leave it OFF.
--Bob

The ideal arrangement for watching SDTV from a DVR like this would be as follows:

1) Set the DVR video output resolution -- when watching SDTV -- to HDMI 480i -- or Component 480i if your DVR doesn't support HDMI 480i. Again this is the ideal since it means the set top box is doing NOTHING to the incoming SDTV signal -- the Anthem does all de-interlacing and scaling. Some set top boxes offer a setting to switch to 480i automatically when watching SDTV.

2) Set the DVR to expect a 16:9 TV. Set the DVR to "uniformly stretch" 4:3 programs left and right to fill the 16:9 screen. Although this LOOKS LIKE the DVR is fiddling with the image, in REALITY the DVR is doing NOTHING to the image. There are the same number of pixels across each line, they are just interpreted as fatter. If, on the other hand, you set the DVR to generate pillar box bars on either side of your 4:3 SDTV content it will in fact waste many of the low-resolution (480i) pixels across each line producing those bars -- leaving only a few pixels in the center to carry the original program content. Some set top boxes offer two different types of "stretch" here. The one you want is the one that is described as stretching uniformly across the screen instead of the one concentrating the stretching to either side.

3) Set the Anthem to Scale Out = Letter/Pillar Box when you want to see your SDTV in its original shape. The ANTHEM will then generate the pillar box bars. But it does so at the high resolution coming out of the scaler so there are still plenty of pixels in the middle to hold the original program content. If you prefer to watch your SDTV stretched left and right to fill the 16:9 screen, set your Anthem to Scale Out = Anamorphic and it will leave the image unaltered (i.e., the orignal, fatter pixels). The Anthem's Panoramic setting does the other kind of shape adjustment -- concentrating the stretching to the sides so that the center of the image is less distorted. Again, all this language is backwards from what is really happening. Anamorphic really does nothing -- no stretch. And Panoramic actually "compresses" the middle a bit to partially return the middle of the image back towards its original shape. Variable width pixels again.

4) As always, leave the Anthem's video output set to the one best output resolution for your display -- as close as it will accept to its "native" resolution.

Now if you do all that and the image looks too dark or looks "washed out" compared to your HDTV viewing then your set top box has a very common problem -- its black levels differ for 480i output compared to 480p and above. This problem may only exist for its Component 480i output, or may ALSO be on HDMI 480i output. A very few set top boxes that exhibit this problem by default also have a black output control (offering just two choices) that will fix this when toggled. The two choices could be labeled just about anything. Commonly found are "0" vs "7.5", "lighter" vs. "darker", and "normal" vs. "extended". Pick the one that makes your SDTV at 480i match most closely with your HDTV at 1080i, and double check to make sure changing that setting hasn't now screwed up your HDTV!

However even if the set top box offers no help the Anthem gives you an easy way to fix that. Just use one overlayed input (e.g., TV1) for HDTV viewing and another (e.g., TV2) for SDTV viewing! And then make the necessary level adjustments in the Anthem Video Source Adjust menu for TV2. Use the Anthem's Brightness control to adjust black levels, and then double check that you don't have to refine its Contrast setting for white levels as well.

Fortunately this 480i black levels problem is becoming less and less common, so most people won't have to use different Anthem levels for SDTV viewing.
--Bob

When running video through the AVM50 or D2 does it automatically scale up to 1080p then back down to the desired resolution for your video display. I only have a 480p projector right now and may upgrade to a 720p projector soon and would like to know if I will even be able to utilize the gennum video scaler?

Thanks

Fitzy

Wow! I am running home to try this.

I don't believe we have any definitive word on this.

One reasonable design would be for the video board to scale all video input to 1080p (at the input frame rate) and then adjust from there according to the desired output settings. But that would mean the scaler is "doing stuff" even if 1080i input was supposed to become 1080i output. So maybe not.

The gennum solution is not only for scaling. It is also for de-interlacing and other techy geeky stuff like color format conversionm, film cadence detection, and frame rate conversion. Yes if you get a 720p projector, the gennum stuff will likely give you a superior result to sending the original signals to your projector and letting it do it itself.

In fact, even with your current 480p projector, the Anthems will probably produce better results for you.
--Bob

Because they are having a hard time recreating this at Anthem. they are using us to feed back some info. It did fix the 1080i bug on HDMI, I believe, however, the problem still exists on component. Checking a few post back, I believe you would see this is the case. Intermitent problems are not easy to fix. Especially some problems that you can't recreate at the factory.

Hey all, I have a question. I just purchased an Escient media server (MX-111) that I will be using along with a Sony DVD changer.

The connection from the Escient is component for video and toslink for digital audio. The Sony DVD changer will also play SACDs so I will be hooking that up to my AVM-50 via the 6-ch analog audio input.

Is there a way that I can map my CD input to use both the digital audio input (OPT1) and 6-ch at the same time so it will use whatever is receiving a signal a signal?

Thanks.