Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1237

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

p.las,
Well I'm not surprised you have weak bass in the all 80Hz configuration. The reason ARC has set the 140Hz crossover to begin with is the deep dip in LF and also in C, with a lesser problem in RF.

Those are really nasty.

In the all 80Hz configuration you are severely under-corrected in C and also in LF in just the critical frequencies for bass impact. ARC won't push more than 6dB boost to a speaker to protect the amp and the speaker itself if that energy is just being consumed by, say, a room cancellation null.

C in particular is a problem because in many mixes the Center channel carries the brunt of critical bass -- the bass that the mixer wants people to be able to hear even if they have no subwoofer and thus won't hear LFE.

And of course the sub can't help because you've rolled it off starting from below the problem area.

-----------------------------------

In your 120Hz configuration you are STILL severely under-corrected in C and LF, although slightly less because you've also lowered the Room Gain.

What you need to understand is that proper bass output means that BOTH the main speaker and the subwoofer have to do their job at a given frequency. Since C and LF can't meet their assigned Target output through those frequencies the resulting solution has a hole. I.e., the sub isn't filling in enough. If ARC boosted the sub output to fill in for those two, it would be incorrect both for LFE and also for the other speakers.

Now, you say that with some discs you feel you are getting too much bass in the 120Hz configuration. I suspect that might be due to you not being used to what LFE sounds like when a sub is set to reproduce the high end of LFE. I.e., you are hearing real LFE in those tracks that you had not heard before. You might not LIKE that mix, but it is "real". In the 80Hz configuration you lose the top end of LFE output so you don't hear it.

But it's still not right even with the sub back up at 120Hz, because LF and C in particular can't contribute what they are supposed to contribute when forced to use an 80Hz crossover.

-------------------------------------

The bottom line here is that you really need to address the cause of those deep dips in Center and LF (and to a lesser extent in RF) either side of 100Hz.

-------------------------------------

ETA: In the original 140/120Hz configuration that ARC chose, I would expect problems with dialog being directed from C to the Sub, but it should not sound laid back or soft unless your sub is underperforming. I.e., the sub is being asked to carry a lot of the burden here and if it is "loud but not accurate" for example (a rather common style of sub design), that could be problem in bass region attacks.

Another thing that would be *VITAL* to the configuration ARC chose is that you make sure your Sub is set correctly for Phase and Polarity. If you are getting cancellation between the Sub and the fronts for example because the Sub is out of Phase than the results will be a mess because the sub is carrying the load so high up in frequency. "Soft" would certainly be the result, and "laid back" might even apply.

If you only have one Sub, you can correct its Phase and Polarity without having to re-Measure for ARC.

-----------------------------------------------

ETA 2: If you take a look at the 140/120Hz configuration you can see what ARC did. ARC realized that LF and C in particular could not be made to work through the dip region. It would take too much boost. But the Sub *COULD* be set to carry the entire load through there.

And so ARC set the high crossover for LF and C to ask them to do only what they were capable of doing given your room problem, and that meant the Sub would carry basically all of the bass for them. But ARC also had to push up the crossover for the other speakers as well to get a solution. I.e., it apparently couldn't BOTH blend bass for them and take over bass for LF and C. So it took over bass for EVERYTHING. This could be due to resource constraints or to the difficulty of doing room correction for the other speakers if they were allowed to reproduce bass themselves.
--Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

What I think is you can't use 80Hz crossovers for the mains while those dips are still there.

Let's see what you get with the checks above first (using the original ARC solution).

Then we can try lowering the crossover for the mains below the 140Hz picked by ARC, but not as far as the 80Hz you tried -- and with the subs left at 120Hz.
--Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

I've not used the SVS EQ, so I'm not sure what you can do with it. But if it is only sending test tones to the two subs -- i.e., no tone to LF or any other main speaker -- then all it can do is help get the two subs in phase with each other. The pair of subs might still be out of phase with the mains.
--Bob

Originally Posted by dlynch34

3d kits for d2v. Is this available and if so is this user installed and for how much is the upgrade?


Thanks

Originally Posted by Stevetd


Not available yet and don't hold your breath. I bought a D2v in September 2010 that included the upgrade. When I got my unit HDMI ports 1-4 were inoperative. I thought that I would just wait for the upgrade that was "right around the corner" and almost two years have past........

Originally Posted by dweltman

I tried installing 2.14d and it failed twice. Going to try and reinstall 2.11 now

EDIT: now won't reinstall 2.11. Guess I am calling Anthem support tomorrow...

Originally Posted by dmusoke

Oh yeah ...mine (and another poster Simon10) failed as well about 2 weeks ago. We ended up getting programming kits suggested by Anthem to reprogram the Atmel micro-controller (they sned you q all the instructions and programming files). Then we had to upload the new FW which it did successfully. The process was very easy and painless. you might want to look into it if you don't want to send your unit back to Anthem for them to do the same thing.

Originally Posted by dweltman


Thanks for the info. The good news is that unplugging the unit for a while seems to have done the trick, I was able to reinstall 2.11 this morning. Whew!

Not I just have to look into my 1080p60 problem

Originally Posted by p.las

Hello Bob.

I have now chekked the cross over on aix test disc. And i having a hard time to hear any difference 140/120 vs 80/120. It dosens Sound like somthing is missing.
I also have tryed on film. The difference is in some Way small - there is a tab more bass on the 140/120 vs 80/120. But there is more attack on 80/120 vs 140/120. Tings that my speakers i known for. It was getting late so i have not played very loud ........- 14db

Originally Posted by wasteofmoney

Has anyone tried out headphones with the D2? I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's and was just curious how they might sound with home theatre, and music. I'm assuming the audiophile grade DAC in the D2 splits off to the headphone output in additon to the other analog outputs

Originally Posted by jayray

Do they work now?
John

Originally Posted by Stevetd


No.

I have been getting by with the other four because I figured as soon as I pulled it out and sent it back to get fixed the update would come out. I do need two more HDMI connections but, I'm using component video and Toslink audio in the mean time.

I'm not one to complain about slow updates. I've been on the update train since the very early HD-DVD days but, this one has really frustrated me. I mean two frik'n years? Geesh.....

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

^ It wouldn't surprise me if the problem with HDMI inputs 1-4 is simply that the current daughter board in there has come loose -- i.e., isn't properly seated.
--Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

OK, then it sounds like your sub Phase is good, as you thought.

Now, the next step is to see how far you can lower main speaker crossovers below 140 before you start running into trouble. I notice you also lowered Room Gain, which will also help reduce the impact of those dips and give you more room to lower main speaker crossovers.

As an experiment, start with just adjusting Center. Leave the Sub at 120. See if you can get Center down to at least 100 before the residual error through the dip exceeds 2dB below Target. That will be crucial to keep dialog out of the Sub.

Next see how far you can go down with LF/RF. Only go as far as you can before the residual error starts showing in the dip in LF.

We already know that 80Hz is too low. So the answer will be somewhere between 80 and 140. NOTE: You do *NOT* have to have all the speakers set to the same crossover. Adjust each according to its own capabilities.

Finally you can lower the Surrounds which should give you no problems.
--Bob

Originally Posted by p.las


regards room gain. i always end up with gain 2 - 2.2. shal i leave it on the calculated gain 3.3 ? or shout i lower it?

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

Given the severe dips, I'm surprised ARC isn't getting confused and deciding you have NO Room Gain. It may be they are just high enough in frequency that ARC is instead seeing the rise at lower frequencies as higher Room Gain.

In the ARC solution, the high (140) crossover for the speakers means Room Gain doesn't affect those. It only lifts the sub. If you really can lower the crossover for the speakers then Room Gain will lift their lower bass. You'll see this as a lift in their Target curves at lower frequencies (but above the crossover).

Now as for what to choose, lowering the Room Gain will mean less boost needed in those dips, and so you'll be able to use a lower crossover. But try to keep at least 2dB of Room Gain. Higher Room Gain, say 3 or 3.5, will make bass sound fuller but is pointless if that means the dips are not corrected.

(It is "normal" for the "real" Room Gain to be low in a large room or a room with lots of bass treatments. But if you can keep at least 2dB of Room Gain then it should sound fine. I tend to prefer somewhat more Room Gain -- perhaps 0.5 to 1.0 dB more -- in the Movie solution, which I also use for multi-channel music, then in the Music solution I only use for stereo music content.)

So I suspect you will HAVE TO lower Room Gain to have any chance of lowering the crossovers for the speakers at all while still correcting those dips.

If you can't fix the room or move the speakers, finding Targets that correct those dips (at lower crossover) has to be your priority.

--------------------------------

If like me you use your Music solution only for playing stereo music content -- whether or not you use something like PLIIx-Music to raise that into the surround speakers, then you should seriously consider excluding the Center speaker from the Music solution.

Do that by putting "n" (for "no speaker" in the ARC Targets Cutoff value for Center in just the Music column.

That means you wont have to solve the dip for Center in the Music solution, and can concentrate on solving the dip in LF.

Even folks without problems in Center like to do this to "improve the front sound stage" even when using the surrounds during playback of stereo content.
--Bob

Originally Posted by p.las

regards the high room gain and front speakers dip. first time i was setting my system up with ARC ther was only the 3 front and the two subs - no surrounds. ARC roomgain was 0db . then i intalled the side surrounds. ARC roomgain was then 2.8.
2 month after i intalled the surround back - ARC roomgain was then 3.3db.

the thing i will do is to set the roomgain to 2.2 and then lower the cross over , just about to the point when i hit the 2 db limit - isent that the way to do it?

i hope that you are better to read my english, than i am to right it :-)

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

Experiments like this take no time at all since you are just recalculating the charts. I suggest you start by seeing how low you can go with Crossover using the Room Gain ARC found.

And THEN lower the Room Gain to, for example, 2.2, and see how much LOWER (if any) you can go with Crossover.

Again keep in mind that it's OK to have different crossover values for the different speakers. Keep the sub at 120 while doing all this.
--Bob

Originally Posted by cougar75

I have an Anthem AVM50v. When I power off my system I get a low level pop from my speakers. Anyone have an idea on what might be causing this?