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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1305

post #39121 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Thanks Stew ...

Actually for Paradigm, since you only has one sub, my technique will work great but i don't think you've utilized the pink noise technique correctly. Instead of listening to the maximum bass, i would listen for the minimum bass instead. I would do the following:


1.  Reverse the polarity of the left speaker by swapping its leads.

2.  Start playing your pink noise source into the left speaker and sub. You will want to disconnect all other speakers temporarily for this test.

3.  Go into Speaker Config ->Bass Management-Movie (or Music) -> Sub Phase.

4.  With the RS SPL meter fixed at your listening position(and having set it to SLOW speed and C-weighting), note the SPL reading when the phase is 0.

5.  Then start changing the phase in 5 degree and not the SPL reading. Continue on till you reach 180 degrees and look for the phase degree number that gives you the absolute minimum SPL reading. Basically, you'll have 36 phase angles to cycle through with their respective SPL readings.

6.  Pick the phase angle that gave the minimum SPL reading and set that as the angle for the Anthem unit. Don't be suprised if you get a range of phase angles that give equivalent minimum SPL numbers. This is common but record them anyways.

7.  Its instructive set the Sub Polarity to 180 degrees and repeat steps 3 thru 6 again to find out what the optimum phase angle would be. Again, don't be suprised to have a range of phase angles that give minimum SPL readings.

Hopefully, the angles an steps 6 and 7 would overlap somewhat (which would be ideal). Then pick the phase number in the middle of the overlap and set the Sub Polarity back to Normal.

If there's no overlap whatsoever, oh well, just set the Sub Polarity to Normal and use the phase number you got in step 6.

8.  Reverse the speaker leads to their normal positions(Black Wire on Black Terminal, Red Wire on Red Terminal). Also remember to re-connect the rest of your speaker system:D !

Don't forget this simple step as i forgot once to reverse the connections back to normal and couldn't understand why i was getting this 'phasey' sound from my system. It gave me headaches for a couple of hours as i thought i had done something wrong in my setup. So i went to check the integrity of the connections in my entire HT system ...only to find after a while that my speaker wires were reversed as indicated in step #1:rolleyes: !

Best of luck,
David:) !

PS
Sorry for being so wordy, but since english ain't my first language, i often find myself maybe over-describing somethings. Bob Pariseau would simply state all the above in just 2 or 3 sentences tops! And this would include his deep tutorials about all thing audio:D !

Thanks a lot. I will try this weekend.
post #39122 of 42717
Can the subwoofer distance setting be used to set phase also?
post #39123 of 42717
Can the subwoofer distance setting be used to set phase also?
post #39124 of 42717
I have a D2v and set everything up with ARC. The problem is with the rear speakers. I have a 7.2 system and even when using a movie with a 7.1 soundtrack I can only hear the rear surrounds from about 4-5 ft. away. The room is 15x28 so from the front row the rears are useless. Any ideas or is this normal?
post #39125 of 42717
ARC does not set the speakers to the correct 75db. You have to go through the menu and set the distances for time delay. Then use a Sound pressure level (SPL) meter to get each speaker to the correct level. Then run ARC and make sure to upload your results to your Anthem.

If you have done all of this then hopefully Bob or John or Ray etc can help.
post #39126 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by xMEATx View Post

Can the subwoofer distance setting be used to set phase also?

 

Yes ... see the procedure described in my sig below.

post #39127 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by yacht422 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Try setting a specific output format (e.g., YCbCr 4:4:4) instead of Auto.
Also try replacing the HDMI cables involved. Keep in mind that too short an HDMI cable can cause problems just like too long a cable.
--Bob
- - - We just returned from the annual AVS home theater cruise where the WIREWORLD president presented his products, and the one thing i came away with was that the shorter the HDMI cable, the better. Demo's followed, and there was a clear advantage to the shorter(under one meter) vs: longer runs. (more air, was the comment)
Bob, can you comment on this?
I've been gone for two years, but I remember your comments suggesting the too short premise.
Walt

My comments had to do with the potential for handshake and bit error problems -- i.e., the potential of the cable to fail -- not audio quality.

But quite candidly I think it HIGHLY unlikely that short cables result in improved HDMI audio quality. I strongly suspect there was a bias factor in those demo results.

Look at it this way: The arriving digital audio stream is either correct or it is broken. There is only one possible level of "correct". Once you have achieved "correct" the audio CAN'T POSSIBLY get any better by, e.g., making the cable shorter, or any other technique.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 12/11/12 at 7:12pm
post #39128 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensmith48 View Post

I have a D2v and set everything up with ARC. The problem is with the rear speakers. I have a 7.2 system and even when using a movie with a 7.1 soundtrack I can only hear the rear surrounds from about 4-5 ft. away. The room is 15x28 so from the front row the rears are useless. Any ideas or is this normal?

Get the AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, and check your ARC results using the 7.1 LPCM test track and an SPL meter held at ARC mic position #1 (i.e., center seating). You will likely find that ARC *HAS* set your levels correctly, which means you've simply discovered that many 7.1 movie tracks don't make very aggressive use of the Rear Surround speakers. Keep in mind that many 7.1 tracks are actually derived from movies that had 5.1 theatrical tracks.

If the test with AIX shows a problem in the output level from your Rears then check that you actually have ARC enabled for each Source (Room EQ = ON) and that you haven't accidentally modified the Setup settings that ARC Uploads. If you are not sure about that, the easiest way to solve it is to reopen your current ARC results file in ARC and re-Upload it to the Anthem.
--Bob
post #39129 of 42717
^ It is also wise to make sure you don't have some "temporary" speaker volume trims lurking in the Anthem that you've forgotten about -- the sort set using the buttons around the Arrow keys on the remote.

To clear all of those in one go, get into Setup and:

1) Save User Settings
2) Reload Factory Defaults -- if you lose video, continue using the Front Panel Display
3) Reload Saved User Settings

Since the "temporary" settings are not saved, this resets all of them.
--Bob
post #39130 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Read and follow the Anthem manual. Almost all the information you will need is printed there.
Anthem has tested and came up with what gives the correct and proper results.
If you have problems or questions then ask and lean on the AVS members here.

Thanks Stew. I have read, or tried to read, the manual several times, but frankly, it's not an easy read... not as bad as the translated Japanese from a Pioneer manual, but, not great either. rolleyes.gif

I have even downloaded it to my iPad so I can read it anytime I want to.

Guess I'll start with the "setup" button on the remote, and make a couple of the tweaks I've read about here like setting the sub to "flat" in the advanced menu... my sub 15 should be completely capable, and shows strong, flat, output down to 20hz according to PBK.
post #39131 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

Thanks Stew. I have read, or tried to read, the manual several times, but frankly, it's not an easy read... not as bad as the translated Japanese from a Pioneer manual, but, not great either. rolleyes.gif
I have even downloaded it to my iPad so I can read it anytime I want to.
Guess I'll start with the "setup" button on the remote, and make a couple of the tweaks I've read about here like setting the sub to "flat" in the advanced menu... my sub 15 should be completely capable, and shows strong, flat, output down to 20hz according to PBK.

My saying to read the manual was not meant as a way to get away from providing you information.
I apologize if it came across that way.

When it comes to doing the basic connections and basic setup the Anthem manual has all the answers.
You should be able, following the manual, to make the connections between your input sources and then entering the Anthem setup menu, make the necessary selections.
The forum members can help you if you have additional questions or you are looking for a particular way to accomplish a setup for any particular source.
I would personally save ARC for last after you have everything connected and sorted out so you do not have to rerun it again for some new change you may have made.
I would run PBK before ARC and it is recommended by Anthem to do it in that order.
Get ready to have never ending fun and welcome to our group of Anthem supporters

Stew
post #39132 of 42717
yup! nuttin cheap 'bout dem der cords!
post #39133 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

My comments had to do with the potential for handshake and bit error problems -- i.e., the potential of the cable to fail -- not audio quality.
But quite candidly I think it HIGHLY unlikely that short cables result in improved HDMI audio quality. I strongly suspect there was a bias factor in those demo results.
Look at it this way: The arriving digital audio stream is either correct or it is broken. There is only one possible level of "correct". Once you have achieved "correct" the audio CAN'T POSSIBLY get any better by, e.g., making the cable shorter, or any other technique.
--Bob
I recognize the logic of your comments.smile.gif W/O devoting mucho time to my reply, there was ample technical evidence given to support their claim, as well as actual audible testing in the room. Theirs was the only presentation I've attended re:wire, and WireWorld has a vested interest in making their product look and sound better then the competition. (duh!)rolleyes.gif But, at the end of the day, there was a room full of H/T dudes that bought into the message.
Now, how to PAY for the stuff! ARGH! eek.gif There is nothing inexpensive about their product, which makes one meter connections look more attractive.
Walt
post #39134 of 42717
^ It's always fun to hear a magician explain his magic trick. So do you remember any of the technical reasons why the 1s and 0s arriving at the far end of their expensive, short cables were better than the 1s and 0s entering the cable at the other end? Did they also claim the video was better? "Blacker blacks" being the most common such claim -- truly a hoot since there's nothing the D2v can send to the Display which will make the display produce less light output for a "black" pixel than it is physically capable of doing.

I'm being flip of course, but this really does sound like so much snake oil to me.
--Bob
post #39135 of 42717
It's nice of WireWorld to sponsor the event, but if you now feel obliged to support them I would spend the money on speaker cables and analog interconnects, if you need them - one of the main points to going digital was to avoid this crazyness. I wish cable manufacturers would have stuck to what they understand (even still I am giving them the benefit of the doubt) and not try to capitalize on the digital revolution. As soon as they make silly claims like this they lose credibility for all their products.

This is where I draw the line with cables... and to keep the thread on topic, I use $5 no-name HDMI cables with my AVM-50v and they work great smile.gif
Edited by AVfile - 12/12/12 at 10:11am
post #39136 of 42717
Quick question: if I change ARC's settings for my fronts from 60 to 70, does the Anthem recalculate this effect relative to all speakers or am I simply just changing the fronts from 60-70?
post #39137 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Quick question: if I change ARC's settings for my fronts from 60 to 70, does the Anthem recalculate this effect relative to all speakers or am I simply just changing the fronts from 60-70?
If you are going to make that change, then you should do it by bringing up your ARC File, make the change, Calculate, Upload to your D2v, and save user/installer settings.
post #39138 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Quick question: if I change ARC's settings for my fronts from 60 to 70, does the Anthem recalculate this effect relative to all speakers or am I simply just changing the fronts from 60-70?


Why do you want to override the system settings made by ARC ?

Where are you making the changes ?

In the speaker configuration crossover settings or in the ARC target cutoffs ?
post #39139 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

My saying to read the manual was not meant as a way to get away from providing you information.
I apologize if it came across that way.
When it comes to doing the basic connections and basic setup the Anthem manual has all the answers.
You should be able, following the manual, to make the connections between your input sources and then entering the Anthem setup menu, make the necessary selections.
The forum members can help you if you have additional questions or you are looking for a particular way to accomplish a setup for any particular source.
I would personally save ARC for last after you have everything connected and sorted out so you do not have to rerun it again for some new change you may have made.
I would run PBK before ARC and it is recommended by Anthem to do it in that order.
Get ready to have never ending fun and welcome to our group of Anthem supporters
Stew

No worries, Stew, I didn't take it that way, was just sharing my experience with the manual so far. I'm not too concerned about the basic setup stuff... but where the manual gets confusing is when it talks about having "layers" for different resolutions for the same device (ie. 1080p24 for BluRay and 1080p60 for DVD from the same player). It sounds difficult, but in reality is probably pretty easy once in the setup menus. I have a Harmony One universal remote, and I'm a little apprehensive about integrating it with the AVM50 and having to scroll through different source layers from the Harmony remote as I haven't even checked to see if it's compatible (I assumed it is).

The other part of the manual that confused me is the video scale section, where it talks about the different scaling options (panoramic, anamorphic, etc...). Is there a way to set up the AVM 50 to automatically fill the screen no matter the original picture size? I currently have my PIO Elite AVR set to passthrough and have my cable box set to 1080i/480i so my PIO Elite Plasma does the processing to 1080p and fills the screen for every digital source material the cable box throws at it.

I'm excited about how good my Paradigms are finally going to sound, but not sure how long it's going to take to get to that point. wink.gif The video processing is what has me befuddled as I'm not very well versed in all the lingo/technical terms. The audio piece I'm okay with... I can draw on my days in recording engineering school back in the 80's... not much has changed there... and, analog is making a comeback (I did all my work on a 24 track Studer analog machine). I'll be working on my sources next (particularly a music server, and one of the Oppo's with balanced analog outs - 105 or 95).

I will definitely run PBK before ARC and save ARC for last... that's good advice, thank you.

I'll be working on my setup Friday and will keep you posted.

PS. Had the opportunity to tour the Paradigm/Anthem factory in Toronto (I know, Mississauga, but I never spell that correctly) a couple months ago. Mark Aling was under the weather, so John S. spent a couple hours with me walking through every part of the factory. To say it's impressive would be an understatement. The coolest part was the anechoic chamber. The total lack of background noise while in the chamber threw my equilibrium off... I actually began to feel a little queasy and off-balance... very weird feeling, but WAY cool. The level of detail and manufacturing tolerances in their voice-coil manufacturing was also very impressive... Unfortunately, I was so in awe of it all, I forgot to take pictures! redface.gif They are great people building great products!
post #39140 of 42717
Please check my understanding on "layers". Can I set up my AVM 50v the following way for a single source with three different uses?

Input Source Resolution Bass Management
HDMI1 BluRay 1080p24 Movie
HDMI1 DVD (same source as BluRay) 1080p60 Movie
HDMI1 CD (same source as BluRay) N/a Music
post #39141 of 42717
Oppo BDP-83 SACD multichannel problem with AVM-50.

I've got a BDP-83 (latest firmware) connected via HDMI to an AVM-50 with the 1.47f firmware. The problem I experience is that while SACD 2-channel layers play fine, there is no sound with multi-channel SACD. Andrew at Anthem confirmed the issue as being something to do with how OPPO transmitted the multichannel digital stream, and said that the problem does not exist with the older OPPO DVD players, but indicated it was present with newer OPPO Blu Rays. He also indicated that the problem should be resolved with the V versions of the AVM50 and D2, but that no fix would be forthcoming with the non-V versions.

Has anyone else experienced this? Thoughts on possible solutions?

I know I could use the analog outs, but I'm not super excited about D->A->wire->A->D->process->A.
I'm also not super excited about upgrading to the V due to the expense and the simple fact that in all other ways the AVM50 meets my needs beautifully.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

-Ravi
post #39142 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravichopra View Post

Oppo BDP-83 SACD multichannel problem with AVM-50.
I've got a BDP-83 (latest firmware) connected via HDMI to an AVM-50 with the 1.47f firmware. The problem I experience is that while SACD 2-channel layers play fine, there is no sound with multi-channel SACD. Andrew at Anthem confirmed the issue as being something to do with how OPPO transmitted the multichannel digital stream, and said that the problem does not exist with the older OPPO DVD players, but indicated it was present with newer OPPO Blu Rays. He also indicated that the problem should be resolved with the V versions of the AVM50 and D2, but that no fix would be forthcoming with the non-V versions.
Has anyone else experienced this? Thoughts on possible solutions?
I know I could use the analog outs, but I'm not super excited about D->A->wire->A->D->process->A.
I'm also not super excited about upgrading to the V due to the expense and the simple fact that in all other ways the AVM50 meets my needs beautifully.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
-Ravi


Go to the OPPO setup screen i have attached

Set Secondary Audio to OFF (If ON, it turns off the HD HDMI Audio)
Set HDMI to LPCM (Not Auto or Bitstream as the OPPO BDP-83 will now do the decoding)
Set LPCM Bitrate to 96k (Not in use for digital but the limit of your Anthem unit)
Set SACD Output to PCM

Now setup a source for SACD in your AVM50
I use DVD3 and change the name to SACD which then appears when you select and play SACDs
Select a HDMI scaler input port # if you have a monitor turned for SACD playback.
Select Audio In as Digital HDMI

Hope I did not forget anything.. Enjoy



Edited by thestewman - 12/13/12 at 6:30am
post #39143 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

Please check my understanding on "layers". Can I set up my AVM 50v the following way for a single source with three different uses?

Input Source Resolution Bass Management
HDMI1 BluRay 1080p24 Movie
HDMI1 DVD (same source as BluRay) 1080p60 Movie
HDMI1 CD (same source as BluRay) N/a Music

Sure. Keep in mind that for the CD Source you will still need to send HDMI 1 Input to the Scaler (even though you don't intend to use video output) since that's how the HDMI audio coming in on it becomes available. For the 1080p/24 content coming in on the Blu-ray Source, if you want that to go out to the display as 1080p/24 then you will also need to set a different Video Output Configuration choice. Either use Through, or set up a 2nd Video Output Configuration which sends 1080p/24 to the display.

You can also set up related Source definitions which differ only in the Video Source Adjust Menu settings. For example, I have identical Source definitions for my Comcast HD/DVR which differ only in how the Custom Crop and Scaling settings are set in Video Source Adjust for each.
--Bob
post #39144 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravichopra View Post

Oppo BDP-83 SACD multichannel problem with AVM-50.

I've got a BDP-83 (latest firmware) connected via HDMI to an AVM-50 with the 1.47f firmware. The problem I experience is that while SACD 2-channel layers play fine, there is no sound with multi-channel SACD. Andrew at Anthem confirmed the issue as being something to do with how OPPO transmitted the multichannel digital stream, and said that the problem does not exist with the older OPPO DVD players, but indicated it was present with newer OPPO Blu Rays. He also indicated that the problem should be resolved with the V versions of the AVM50 and D2, but that no fix would be forthcoming with the non-V versions.

Has anyone else experienced this? Thoughts on possible solutions?

I know I could use the analog outs, but I'm not super excited about D->A->wire->A->D->process->A.
I'm also not super excited about upgrading to the V due to the expense and the simple fact that in all other ways the AVM50 meets my needs beautifully.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

-Ravi

For the HDMI output from the 83, be sure the video resolution is set explicitly to 720p or higher or you will be limited to 2-channel for high bit rate audio. I.e., don't use Source Direct for SACD.

Also set SACD Output PCM.

I don't know what Andrew has in mind. As far as I know there is no issue between the OPPO 83 and the original AVM 50 for playback of SACDs as HDMI 5.1 LPCM 88.2KHz, but it's been a while....

You could also check with OPPO Tech Support as they use Anthem units for testing, although I don't know if they have an original AVM 50 at this point.
--Bob
post #39145 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

For the HDMI output from the 83, be sure the video resolution is set explicitly to 720p or higher or you will be limited to 2-channel for high bit rate audio. I.e., don't use Source Direct for SACD.
Also set SACD Output PCM.
I don't know what Andrew has in mind. As far as I know there is no issue between the OPPO 83 and the original AVM 50 for playback of SACDs as HDMI 5.1 LPCM 88.2KHz, but it's been a while....
You could also check with OPPO Tech Support as they use Anthem units for testing, although I don't know if they have an original AVM 50 at this point.
--Bob

YOU DID IT!!!!

I don't know why I didn't come here first. I've been pulling my hair out for YEARS periodically going back and forth with both Anthem and OPPO on this.

I had video output resolution set to Auto. Once I set it to 1080P - beautiful multi-channel SACD sound.

Bob Pariseau is officially my favorite person of the year.

-Ravi
post #39146 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravichopra View Post

YOU DID IT!!!!
I don't know why I didn't come here first. I've been pulling my hair out for YEARS periodically going back and forth with both Anthem and OPPO on this.
I had video output resolution set to Auto. Once I set it to 1080P - beautiful multi-channel SACD sound.
Bob Pariseau is officially my favorite person of the year.
-Ravi

I suppose this begs the question as to which has the better video scaler - AVM-50 or BDP-83? Should I be switching that setting back and forth for SACD vs video viewing or am I better off just letting the OPPO do it's thing and pass 1080p to the Anthem?

Best,
-Ravi
post #39147 of 42717
^ My recommendation would be that you leave the OPPO 83 set at explicit 1080p with 1080p/24 AUTO. Do that even if your display does not take 1080p/24 (the AVM 50 will lift the output frame rate to /60; a trivial process that introduces no problems).

However leave DVD 24p Conversion set to OFF by default, and turn it on for specific discs you know it works well with.

Picture Adjustment controls in the 83 should be left at their factory default (0) values. Adjust video calibration as necessary in your display -- with the AVM 50 providing assistance if you can't get the complete answer using the controls in the display.
--Bob
post #39148 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravichopra View Post

. . . .

Bob Pariseau is officially my favorite person of the year.

-Ravi

I trust that's renewable annually?
--Bob
post #39149 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I trust that's renewable annually?
--Bob

As far as I'm concerned this is renewed automatically in perpetuity until someone else can deliver nearly as much value in as few words. It's like a multi-year headache has finally lifted.
Thank you!
-Ravi
post #39150 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Sure. Keep in mind that for the CD Source you will still need to send HDMI 1 Input to the Scaler (even though you don't intend to use video output) since that's how the HDMI audio coming in on it becomes available. For the 1080p/24 content coming in on the Blu-ray Source, if you want that to go out to the display as 1080p/24 then you will also need to set a different Video Output Configuration choice. Either use Through, or set up a 2nd Video Output Configuration which sends 1080p/24 to the display.
You can also set up related Source definitions which differ only in the Video Source Adjust Menu settings. For example, I have identical Source definitions for my Comcast HD/DVR which differ only in how the Custom Crop and Scaling settings are set in Video Source Adjust for each.
--Bob

Thanks, Bob! I'm traveling this week, and reading and re-reading the manual before beginning my setup process tomorrow. On top of that, I'm a "visual learner", so words on a page - particularly of the technical/process variety - don't always translate well in my brain. tongue.gif Glad to know I'm beginning to understand!
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