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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1319

post #39541 of 40739
1/6/13 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

The analog level settings in the Anthem do no effect the analog input levels. Something else is over driving the Anthem analog input

. . . .

The manual says the level indicators do not function for analog. So what do you have connected that is driving the inputs into distortion ?
Might I suggest you disconnect everything except one set of analog inputs, And then check

Huh? Umm, yes, they do.

Setup > Analog Input Levels

And the bar graph level indicator available in that menu functions for Analog-DSP input -- both stereo and 6-Ch.
--Bob
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post #39542 of 40739
1/6/13 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ You don't want to exclude Center while playing multi-channel music. The Center channel content designed in as part of the mix should be played in the Center speaker.
--Bob

Also, Bob noticed one thing; when I have two configurations; one for Movie and one for Music, and when I press the Select button several times, at the end MAIN TONE CONTROLS shows up as ENABLED for a 5.1 track, it has always been Disabled so far. Just curious why, is it correct?

Thanks.
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post #39543 of 40739
1/6/13 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

No its not Bob...

But what has been observed is that regardless of how much you reduce the input level gain, it has no effect on the observed clipping indicator.
Since we are supposed to trust the indicator implicitly, and its telling us we are clipping the analog inputs when using the Analog-DSP mode, we are at a loss to explain why that is the case, hence the apparent uproar over this issue. Obviously, no one wants to risk clipping their equipments analog stage only present a distorted signal to the processing DSPs which as we all know would produce distorted outputs to our amplifiers.

- David

OK, so let's all take a deep breath.

There is NOTHING WRONG with the XLR output voltage of the OPPO, nor with the XLR input sensitivity of the D2v.

As expected, the D2v needs -6dB attenuation of the XLR input to match the RCA input level. This can be accomplished by putting a -6dB adjustment in Setup > Analog Input Levels for each Source which is set to use the 2-Ch Balanced (XLR) inputs. The volume on the OPPO can be set at either FIXED or Variable 100.

Now, I still think there is something you are missing such that you are using ANALOG-DIRECT in your test where you are seeing the bogus bar graph.

But perhaps there really is a new bug you've triggered which has screwed up the bar graph for the XLR input even for ANALOG-DSP. In any event, there is OBVIOUSLY not 20dB of clipping going on here. If that were the case then it would be blatantly audible even in quieter passages.

(NOTE: Clipping CAN happen if you run the OPPO at full volume and do NOT attenuate the XLR input -6dB in the D2v. So use the -6dB in Analog Input Levels as recommended.)

In early D2v test firmware leading to version 3, the bar graph was not responsive at all for the 6-CH input. That got fixed quite some time back. So there certainly could be a bug in the bar graph for the XLR input. I'm just not aware of one.
--Bob
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post #39544 of 40739
1/6/13 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm25 View Post

Also, Bob noticed one thing; when I have two configurations; one for Movie and one for Music, and when I press the Select button several times, at the end MAIN TONE CONTROLS shows up as ENABLED for a 5.1 track, it has always been Disabled so far. Just curious why, is it correct?

Thanks.

The Tone Controls ENABLED vs. DISABLED choice is a "temporary" setting. That means it gets reset to Enabled every time your Reload Factory Defaults -- such as when doing a firmware install. "Temporary" settings are not saved in User or Installer Settings, so your Disabled choice doesn't get restored when you Load Saved User Settings AFTER the firmware install.

Just change it back to Disabled again and you are good to go until your next reset.
--Bob
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post #39545 of 40739
1/6/13 at 6:52pm
Thanks again Bob.
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post #39546 of 40739
1/6/13 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

OK, so let's all take a deep breath.
There is NOTHING WRONG with the XLR output voltage of the OPPO, nor with the XLR input sensitivity of the D2v.
As expected, the D2v needs -6dB attenuation of the XLR input to match the RCA input level. This can be accomplished by putting a -6dB adjustment in Setup > Analog Input Levels for each Source which is set to use the 2-Ch Balanced (XLR) inputs. The volume on the OPPO can be set at either FIXED or Variable 100.
Now, I still think there is something you are missing such that you are using ANALOG-DIRECT in your test where you are seeing the bogus bar graph.
But perhaps there really is a new bug you've triggered which has screwed up the bar graph for the XLR input even for ANALOG-DSP. In any event, there is OBVIOUSLY not 20dB of clipping going on here. If that were the case then it would be blatantly audible even in quieter passages.
(NOTE: Clipping CAN happen if you run the OPPO at full volume and do NOT attenuate the XLR input -6dB in the D2v. So use the -6dB in Analog Input Levels as recommended.)
In early D2v test firmware leading to version 3, the bar graph was not responsive at all for the 6-CH input. That got fixed quite some time back. So there certainly could be a bug in the bar graph for the XLR input. I'm just not aware of one.
--Bob

So, I wonder if the clipping I HEAR is inherent in the source - CD, USB, etc... due to compression? I don't listen to a whole lot of jazz or classical, but I will say, I have an Emotiva sampler disc from one of the previous Emo-fest's and it sounds really good in Analog-DIR. I guess I need to go buy a volt meter (?) to put this to rest once and for all.
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post #39547 of 40739
1/6/13 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

So, I wonder if the clipping I HEAR is inherent in the source - CD, USB, etc... due to compression? I don't listen to a whole lot of jazz or classical, but I will say, I have an Emotiva sampler disc from one of the previous Emo-fest's and it sounds really good in Analog-DIR. I guess I need to go buy a volt meter (?) to put this to rest once and for all.

Have you lowered the Setup > Analog Input Levels value to -6dB for *EACH* Source line which is using the 2-Ch Balanced (XLR) inputs?
--Bob
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post #39548 of 40739
1/6/13 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

No its not Bob...

But what has been observed is that regardless of how much you reduce the input level gain, it has no effect on the observed clipping indicator.

Since we are supposed to trust the indicator implicitly, and its telling us we are clipping the analog inputs when using the Analog-DSP mode, we are at a loss to explain why that is the case, hence the apparent uproar over this issue. Obviously, no one wants to risk clipping their equipments analog stage only present a distorted signal to the processing DSPs which as we all know would produce distorted outputs to our amplifiers.

- David

My AVM 50v actually shows clipping on the bar graph in Analog-DIR. I'm not using Analog-DSP. I don't hear a difference though between Opp 80/0dB AVM 50v and Oppo 100/-6dB AVM 50v.
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post #39549 of 40739
1/6/13 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

My AVM 50v actually shows clipping on the bar graph in Analog-DIR. I'm not using Analog-DSP. I don't hear a difference though between Opp 80/0dB AVM 50v and Oppo 100/-6dB AVM 50v.

Forget about the bar graph. As has been stated multiple times, it does not produce valid data when using Analog-Direct.

I ask again, are you HEARING clipping when playing stereo content, with the OPPO at Volume 100, with Stereo Signal DOWN MIX STEREO set, and with the AVM 50v Analog Input Levels set to -6dB for whichever Source line you are have selected to use with the XLR inputs?
--Bob
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post #39550 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

OK, so let's all take a deep breath.



There is NOTHING WRONG with the XLR output voltage of the OPPO, nor with the XLR input sensitivity of the D2v.
As expected, the D2v needs -6dB attenuation of the XLR input to match the RCA input level.
This can be accomplished by putting a -6dB adjustment in Setup > Analog Input Levels for each Source which is set to use the 2-Ch Balanced (XLR) inputs.



The volume on the OPPO can be set at either FIXED or Variable 100.
Now, I still think there is something you are missing such that you are using ANALOG-DIRECT in your test where you are seeing the bogus bar graph.
But perhaps there really is a new bug you've triggered which has screwed up the bar graph for the XLR input even for ANALOG-DSP. In any event, there is OBVIOUSLY not 20dB of clipping going on here. If that were the case then it would be blatantly audible even in quieter passages.
(NOTE: Clipping CAN happen if you run the OPPO at full volume and do NOT attenuate the XLR input -6dB in the D2v. So use the -6dB in Analog Input Levels as recommended.)
In early D2v test firmware leading to version 3, the bar graph was not responsive at all for the 6-CH input. That got fixed quite some time back. So there certainly could be a bug in the bar graph for the XLR input. I'm just not aware of one.
--Bob

Bob

Not trying to split hairs just get a clearer understanding

Am I correct in saying that to be clearer your statement should say for the XLR source not each source as there can only be one XLR stereo input source.
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post #39551 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Forget about the bar graph. As has been stated multiple times, it does not produce valid data when using Analog-Direct.
I ask again, are you HEARING clipping when playing stereo content, with the OPPO at Volume 100, with Stereo Signal DOWN MIX STEREO set, and with the AVM 50v Analog Input Levels set to -6dB for whichever Source line you are have selected to use with the XLR inputs?
--Bob

I am only using HDMI and XLR outputs from the Oppo, and I have 2-CH set to -6dB in the Anthem and the Oppo set to 100. I am not using any other analog inputs on the Anthem, nor am I using Analog-DSP.

I believe that I am hearing some clipping... it's coming across as coarse, harsh high frequencies when playing in the Analog-DIR mode at elevated volumes (-40 to -30 on the Anthem volume setting). SPL levels match between HDMI and Analog-DIR.
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post #39552 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Forget about the bar graph. As has been stated multiple times, it does not produce valid data when using Analog-Direct.
I ask again, are you HEARING clipping when playing stereo content, with the OPPO at Volume 100, with Stereo Signal DOWN MIX STEREO set, and with the AVM 50v Analog Input Levels set to -6dB for whichever Source line you are have selected to use with the XLR inputs?
--Bob

I am only using HDMI and XLR outputs from the Oppo, and I have 2-CH set to -6dB in the Anthem and the Oppo set to 100. I am not using any other analog inputs on the Anthem, nor am I using Analog-DSP.

I believe that I am hearing some clipping... it's coming across as coarse, harsh high frequencies when playing in the Analog-DIR mode at elevated volumes (-40 to -30 on the Anthem volume setting). SPL levels match between HDMI and Analog-DIR.

OK, next step: While using the XLR outputs, reduce the OPPO Volume by 6 steps to 94 (LEAVE the -6dB set in the AVM 50v). Does the character of the "clipping" change? For example does it go away? If NOT then what you are hearing is IN THE CONTENT. (It may be more obvious using ANALOG-DIRECT because ARC isn't in the picture distracting you with improved sound elsewhere.)

If it DOES go away, then raise the output volume of the Anthem by +3dB (not +6dB). Does the problem come back? If so, then you are not clipping the Inputs but rather you are over-driving your amps/speakers.

(Input clipping is NOT a function of the output volume of the Anthem.)

Also, double check that you have Stereo Signal DOWN MIX STEREO set since otherwise any volume trim settings you may have in place in the OPPO for LF/RF of the multi-channel set will affect those Dedicated Stereo Outputs.

Also, do one more thing: Change the Stereo Signal setting in the OPPO to FRONT LEFT/RIGHT and then immediately back to DOWN MIX STEREO. Does the problem go away?
--bob
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post #39553 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

I am only using HDMI and XLR outputs from the Oppo, and I have 2-CH set to -6dB in the Anthem and the Oppo set to 100. I am not using any other analog inputs on the Anthem, nor am I using Analog-DSP.
I believe that I am hearing some clipping... it's coming across as coarse, harsh high frequencies when playing in the Analog-DIR mode at elevated volumes (-40 to -30 on the Anthem volume setting). SPL levels match between HDMI and Analog-DIR.

As a test
Remove the -6db adjustment and see if you still hear distortion in analog DIR
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post #39554 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.las View Post

I have tried to reload 3.09 again. But the low pcm volme is still there. What i dó not understand is, it have not allways been a issue in this 3.09 software....Strange

Anybody - please

No response from anthem . Have tryed to send the and mail. Is there a better Way to mail them?
Edited by p.las - 1/6/13 at 9:50pm
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post #39555 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.las View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by p.las View Post

I have tried to reload 3.09 again. But the low pcm volme is still there. What i dó not understand is, it have not allways been a issue in this 3.09 software....Strange

Anybody - please

What makes you think the LPCM volume is low? What are you comparing to what?

I see no problem with LPCM volume in the D2v with V3.09f.
--Bob
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post #39556 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

I am only using HDMI and XLR outputs from the Oppo, and I have 2-CH set to -6dB in the Anthem and the Oppo set to 100. I am not using any other analog inputs on the Anthem, nor am I using Analog-DSP.
I believe that I am hearing some clipping... it's coming across as coarse, harsh high frequencies when playing in the Analog-DIR mode at elevated volumes (-40 to -30 on the Anthem volume setting). SPL levels match between HDMI and Analog-DIR.

As a test
Remove the -6db adjustment and see if you still hear distortion in analog DIR

If it's truly clipping the input (and I still don't believe that), removing the -6dB input attenuation in the Anthem is taking things the wrong direction.
--Bob
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post #39557 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

What makes you think the LPCM volume is low? What are you comparing to what?
I see no problem with LPCM volume in the D2v with V3.09f.
--Bob

Bitstream vs pcm...pcm is Down by 20db. I am using te first software that fixes the det mappens. 3.09
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post #39558 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Bob

Not trying to split hairs just get a clearer understanding

Am I correct in saying that to be clearer your statement should say for the XLR source not each source as there can only be one XLR stereo input source.

Nope. Just as you can have more than one Source defined to use the HDMI 1 input, you can have more than one Source defined to use the 2CH-Balanced (XLR) Analog input.

I have a sneaking suspicion there may be a problem here with people applying the Analog Input Level adjustment to THE WRONG SOURCE line.
--Bob
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post #39559 of 40739
1/6/13 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.las View Post

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

What makes you think the LPCM volume is low? What are you comparing to what?
I see no problem with LPCM volume in the D2v with V3.09f.
--Bob

Bitstream vs pcm...pcm is Down by 20db. I am using te first software that fixes the det mappens. 3.09

What are you using as your test content and Source device?
--Bob
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post #39560 of 40739
1/6/13 at 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm25 View Post

dmusoke:
I would like to know if you are able to fix this problem. As I said; I had at length discussions about this with Anthem, and they just said, D2v tells you what it sees, by the way, it happens with my other source Sony ES5400 SACD player as well.

Clipping should not be happening with this player. The Sony has the lowest XLR output of any SACD player I know... A good 6dB lower than the Oppo according to the Stereophile review.
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post #39561 of 40739
1/6/13 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm25 View Post

dmusoke:
I would like to know if you are able to fix this problem. As I said; I had at length discussions about this with Anthem, and they just said, D2v tells you what it sees, by the way, it happens with my other source Sony ES5400 SACD player as well.

Clipping should not be happening with this player. The Sony has the lowest XLR output of any SACD player I know... A good 6dB lower than the Oppo according to the Stereophile review.

I'm pretty sure this is going to turn out that either he is playing faulty content (a bad recording -- we've all been there) or he is overdriving his amps/speakers. He may even have blown a tweeter and is hearing that.
--Bob
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post #39562 of 40739
1/6/13 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.las View Post

Bitstream vs pcm...pcm is Down by 20db. I am using te first software that fixes the det mappens. 3.09

Peter, since I rarely use PCM, I just tested my 50v with Oppo 83 for you. I measured exactly the same levels in TrueHD, DTS-HD and PCM. So no problem here and Firmware is at v3.09c.

Please check if you have any volume trims applied in PCM mode. Save user settings and load factory defaults, then test again.

Note that you might as well install 3,09c while you're at it, because it has a very important bug fix for the 50v low power-up volume problem. PM me for details if you want.
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post #39563 of 40739
1/6/13 at 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

I am only using HDMI and XLR outputs from the Oppo, and I have 2-CH set to -6dB in the Anthem and the Oppo set to 100. I am not using any other analog inputs on the Anthem, nor am I using Analog-DSP.
I believe that I am hearing some clipping... it's coming across as coarse, harsh high frequencies when playing in the Analog-DIR mode at elevated volumes (-40 to -30 on the Anthem volume setting). SPL levels match between HDMI and Analog-DIR.

"elevated volumes" @ -40 to -30 on the Anthem volume setting?!

Also you are saying the exact same material sounds fine via HDMI at the same elevated levels?

Did you just get the Oppo or have you tested its analog stage before in another system?

Stefan
Edited by AVfile - 1/6/13 at 11:12pm
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post #39564 of 40739
1/7/13 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

What are you using as your test content and Source device?
--Bob

i am using and Oppo bdp 83. i have testing it on many films. When anthem decodes - no problem. When Oppo decodes the volume falls 20db. I have also try to use the AIX test disc. And the LPCM 7.1 is also down by 20db. So it seams to bee a problem with all multichannel LPCM...i have not tested it with my squeezebox. I will try to do that , when i get home from work
The funny thing is - for one or two months ago, i was seen the new Total recall. And there was a major audio dropout when it was bitstream. So i set my oppo to output LPCM , and that s solved the problem....no low volume. So the problem has not been there all the time , after i have uploaded the 3.09 software.
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post #39565 of 40739
1/7/13 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Peter, since I rarely use PCM, I just tested my 50v with Oppo 83 for you. I measured exactly the same levels in TrueHD, DTS-HD and PCM. So no problem here and Firmware is at v3.09c.
Please check if you have any volume trims applied in PCM mode. Save user settings and load factory defaults, then test again.
Note that you might as well install 3,09c while you're at it, because it has a very important bug fix for the 50v low power-up volume problem. PM me for details if you want.

okay - my firmware is the first 3.09

at this piont , my problem is that i can not get any respons from anthem tec - emailed them monday last week. i need a code to exit there protected side.

i will also try to use factory defaults , to see if that makes any change. But the only place i can set som different levels for PCM is on the remote , right...?
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post #39566 of 40739
1/7/13 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Mark:

In your case and with your subs response, the answer is yes. Flat is better than Auto.

Maybe, i just didn't realize but ARC has otherfilter settings than flat or auto. Has anyone tried "1st order", "2nd order", "3rd order" .... "8th order"eek.gif ?
Apparently, you can specify the roll-off (high-end & low end) of your subwoofer via these filters. I wasn't aware they existed:D .

The filter order setting only applies to the low-end roll off (the high pass filter), the upper end is controlled to complement the satellite roll off. With careful adjustment you can extend the lower frequency range, whilst still rolling off the very lowest frequencies if your sub can't really produce them. This may be preferable to the flat setting for a number of users, and also better than auto, which can prematurely roll off the output - but it needs to be tested - probably why Anthem say only for Pro-Cal use (or something similar).
Regards, Mike.
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post #39567 of 40739
1/7/13 at 4:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

If it's truly clipping the input (and I still don't believe that), removing the -6dB input attenuation in the Anthem is taking things the wrong direction.
--Bob


Yes, My error.

Sometimes you should just call it a night and go to bed
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post #39568 of 40739
1/7/13 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Nope. Just as you can have more than one Source defined to use the HDMI 1 input, you can have more than one Source defined to use the 2CH-Balanced (XLR) Analog input.
I have a sneaking suspicion there may be a problem here with people applying the Analog Input Level adjustment to THE WRONG SOURCE line.
--Bob

Bob

For some reason I just can not get my head around what you are saying.
if there is only one pair of XLR cables, coming from a single audio component, connected to the single rear input pair available, how can there be multiple sources ?
I understand you are able to assign multiple source buttons to the XLR pair but it still only feeds one audio signal (source).
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post #39569 of 40739
1/7/13 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

Nick or Bob,
With the 3D board, will it be possible in the future to passthrough 4K material? Or a new processor is coming that will be able to passthrough and upconvert to 4K?
Thanks,
Christian

Seen as how 4k will be the buzz this week at CES anyone with any thoughts on this, before I spend the 1,650.00 for the 3D? If it could just passthrough 4k I would be future proofed for a little longer.
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post #39570 of 40739
1/7/13 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Bob
For some reason I just can not get my head around what you are saying.
if there is only one pair of XLR cables, coming from a single audio component, connected to the single rear input pair available, how can there be multiple sources ?
I understand you are able to assign multiple source buttons to the XLR pair but it still only feeds one audio signal (source).

Stew, if you look at Boyce's screen shot here you will see there is an adjustment line for CD DVD1/2/3 etc. The list goes by logical INPUT not physical connection. Any number of these inputs could have ANALOG IN assigned to XLR as you said, therefore the -6dB needs to be applied accordingly is all Bob's saying.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/678260/anthem-d2-d2v-avm50-avm50v-arc1-tweaking-guide/39480#post_22788431
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