Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1331

In my application my walls are open and no cable has been run. I too have gotten many informed opinions about running the speaker cable in the wall or running balanced interconnects. After hours of research, and multiple results I reached out to a company that does wiring for recording studios, and musicians. I asked them so many questions that I am surprised they returned my e-mails. In the end they did say that running high quality speaker wire in the wall would be more than sufficient for all speakers. The Balanced Audio option would work very well, but was bit of overkill in the configuration I was going to use. So in the end I have decided that all 4 surrounds and the center will be 10awg speaker wire in the wall.

As for my front right and left channels I am still torn between the long run balanced to the amp and shorter wire to the speaker configuration, and the Speaker wire in the wall.

I am still working on the rest of the room so I just have to let that simmer until I am up to it

Gerard

Gerard - Here is a hint that has saved me numerous times. Since your walls are open run conduit and lots of it. I have conduit to my front stage, ceiling projector, 4 surrounds and my second row seating platform all from my rack. Makes it easy to switch out cables when needed.

For the record I'm in the speaker wire camp. I like having all my gear in one spot away from my front stage. I'm also of the opinion it is easier to muck up something measured in mV's then it is Volts. I'm aware of the benefits of balanced just don't think it is that big a deal if you run your cables smartly. I also ran dedicated A/C circuits to my rack and projector but not my front stage. I have played with the idea of active speakers and if I do I would run balanced but I wish I had put a dedicated circuit up front. My point being physical location of an amp can be dictated by power availability also.
Edited by obie_fl - 1/28/13 at 11:34am

I actually have five dedicated 20amp lines run to my breaker box and spooled up at the rack with enough of a run so that the two front Anthem amps each have their own line. I have one line to the Rack for the D2v and other sources. Two for the 5 channel amp and can run one more for my sub. One of a few reasons this has turned into almost a year working on this.

Balanced XLR is designed for long runs and noise inducing environments. By it's nature a balanced connection rejects almost all kinds of noise picked up by cables which standard RCA and zip cord are susceptible to.
It's first defense is the common ground is also a shield in the cable.
Secondly the signal is run along two twisted wires one Hot(+) caries the original signal and one Cold(-) carries an inverted original signal. At the input of the end device is a differential amplifier which only amplifies the difference in the two signals. Since the actual signal is delivered as both + and - it will be amplified. Any noise picked up will be the same on both Hot and Cold(ie it's not inverted on the Cold wire) and are cancelled out at the differential amplifier so almost all noise picked up in the cable is rejected.
Thirdly, due to the combining of Hot and Cold signals in the differential amplifier the signal is increased 2x giving a stronger signal for longer runs.

Cheers

hallo.
i need a advice.
i have two M&K mx350mkII subs. on one of the subs , the volume kontrol is brocken. the level are all over the place. but there is a THX fixed gain switch i can use. Så my idea was to use the fixed gain on the "brocken" sub , and level match the other one to that sub.
but how shall i run ARC? isent it a problem that the sub levels are to high , when ARC meassure
any advice is velcome

^ There's a range of output levels that ARC can work with -- basically determined by the volume trim range in the Anthem. So try it. If ARC can't build a solution it will complain.
--Bob

The release notes for V3.09f don't give a lot of details. It reports additional, unspecified DTS fixes as required by DTS, and a bug fix for incorrect output channel count reporting when using the 6-CH Analog input. It reports a known issue that TrueHD 2.0 Bitstream sources will not allow a Surround mode to engage to raise that to more speakers (the processor mistakenly thinks the input is 5.1) -- use LPCM input instead.
--Bob

thanks a lot Bob - i will try to run ARC with the new sub level

^ Be careful using a "THX" mode in the subwoofer. It may ALSO impose an 80Hz internal crossover in the sub which can not be defeated. I.e., you'll lose the high end of bass frequencies from that sub.

You should be able to test that using the Quick Measure Tool, presuming the volume doesn't go to wildly out of whack when you turn off the "THX" mode. Just see if Quick Measure shows an unexpected roll-off above 80Hz for that Sub compared to not using the "THX" mode.
--Bob

I Will check that. Thanks again

But i am almost sure that it is only affecting the volume, becurse here is a seperat votum for a thx 80/24 filter.

Can someone post what an ideal quick measure sub chart looks like. I have trouble reading mine or its easier to read the results after I run ARC for me. Is there a better way to see the result, a setting I am missing in the chart settings perhaps? Thanks everyone.

I finally completed my first real ARC measure and upload. It definitely sounds better, but I do not have the expertise to know what to do with these graphs. Could someone help? Thanks!

These are the Music config graphs:





Movie config graphs:

^
I would try moving the subwoofer to eliminate the deep dip at 50Hz and just below 30Hz.. You can use the Quick Measure in ARC to assist .

And maybe reduce the high frequency setup in your targets from 10,000 Hz to a lower frequency to allow ARC to provide more boost to your sub woofer.
Do that and recalculate and see if it helps. If it does not just do mot upload the new settings.
Edited by thestewman - 1/29/13 at 7:04pm

Unfortunately, the sub is not moveable. It is built in under the daybed as seen in my photos.
So, I must come up with another solution if possible.
I tried the targets at 5000K but no difference on the low end.
Maybe there is something I can so in the advanced target section, LFE crossover settings, or on the actual sub settings.
I have read for hours and hours thru hundreds of these posts, but now I am just starting to learn enough to be dangerous.
Thanks for your ideas!
Any others?

The low end of your surrounds also roll off way too early as well. A positioning is in order as well.

 

As for your sub, do you have a picture of how its placed in the room?

You have manually set your sub to begin rolling off at 120Hz in the advanced section, why? Go back in and change it back to Auto.
With the surrounds, as already said, they need to be repositioned to get a bit more boundary gain, if possible.
Regards, Mike.

At those bass frequencies, even inches matter. You can't shift the sub at all? Not even rotating it in place? That huge dip in the sub response is really clobbering your bass. You might be able to tame some of it with addition of bass treatments on the walls (which deaden bass frequency reflections and thus reduce the standing waves resulting in the cancellation dip), but really the best solution here is to reposition the sub so that it couples better to the geometry of the room.

Does your sub offer any adjustments that alter its bass output -- e.g., "ports" that can be opened/closed? You may have it set incorrectly.
--Bob

EDITED FOLLOW -UP -- I talked to Nick at Anthem, and below are his responses.


As always, I greatly appreciate any responses and help! My question is about the record functions on the D2v. I received an ambiguous and muddled response from Anthem tech support, because the tech guy had not used the record functions. I believe one of his statements, quoted below, is erroneous, but he admitted he has never tried these functions. I also understand that copy protection makes any of the below DOA, so the below questions are for sources, like regular TV, that are not copy protected.

The manual says (page 50) that "record. . .allows you to record sources independently of what is selected in other paths. Composite and S-Video, and fixed-level analog audio outputs are available for two recorders. . . Analog audio record output has a signal only if L/R analog audio is connected or when Main is copied. . . . Zone 2 and 3: The source selector can be the same or different from the source selected in other paths. Zone 2 and Zone 3 each have outputs for a TV and 2-channel audio. To listen to a source that is not connected via L/R analog audio, you must copy it from Main."

(1) My interpretation of the above is that I can connect a DVD-R recorder, using either the TAPE or VCR S-Video or composite connections on the back of the unit, and using the RECORD button on the front. And I can send a signal to the DVD-R for recording, using analog connections, say from a Tivo. At the same time, I can also watch and listen to an entirely different source in MAIN, say from DVD, Blu-Ray or a comcast box.

Is that correct? Yes, that is correct.

In addition, since there is only one RECORD button on the front, I assume -- but the manual is not clear -- that the TAPE and VCR connections, while they can go to two recorders, receive the same and identical signal.

Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. Also note that tape and VCR can send signals to each other, so you can record from one recorder to another.

NOTE -- the Anthem tech support guy said that RECORD only works with audio and not video. That statement must be incorrect, based both on the manual, and the physical connections on the unit.

(2) I also interpret the manual to say that I can connect *TWO* DVD-R recorders, using the tape connection and Zone 2 or 3, and could record from two sources independently, say from Tivo #1 and Tivo #2, while watching and listening to a different source, i.e. a third source, such as DVD, in MAIN.

Is that correct? Yes, that is correct, with one clarification. The tape/VCR outs are at line level. The zone has a volume control, so Nick advised turning the Zone 2 or 3 to 0 db, especially if the recording level can't be adjusted on teh recorder.

(3) I also understand that S-Video from a recorder or any other source will be upscaled and sent to the display via HDMI. But composite is not upscaled, and a composite signal must be sent to a display via a composite output. I also assume that composite is not upscaled via component.

HOWEVER, if a DVD Recorder can take an composite input, and send it out as a component output, then that component signal could be upscaled to HDMI and sent to a display via HDMI.


Is that correct? Yes, that is correct.

Many thanks as always for your help!
Edited by Emosewa09 - 1/30/13 at 3:07pm

^
Yikes !
You want to take a $9000 Anthem D2v and record composite or s-video ? Your would get poor quality video even with upscaling from any of your sources,

Is there such a thing as a DVD disc recorder that can record video direct to disc ?

The most used method of recording Over The Air video is via USB or Firewire from your cable box or other source to a computer running the appropriate software
and then storing the video in a usable format such as AVI or MP4 etc to a hard drive.

I cannot answer your questions above as I do not know anyone who has tried recording multiple low quality video or even a single low quality source.

Most important Inserting the D2v would complicate DRM problems.

Recording direct to disc also is very undesirable as you cannot monitor what is being recorded like you can audio. So the failure rate is high.

If you have a Comcast box they provide Firewire video out which can be recorded. You can find the method (CapDVHS ) on the internet.
There are units called DVD Recorders which do not use a disc but allow conversion so a video file can be recorded to a hard drive

All of my questions remain. They are valid questions, since the D2v EXPLICITLY is designed to allow for the use of video recorders. I just want to clarify precisely how it works in that regard -- how it works as a preamp and switching device.

I'm not looking for the D2v to upscale or actually improve a DVD-R recording, and I didn't say that. I only want to clarify how it passes the signals -- see my first posting.

To respond to thestewman, there are no DVD Recorders available in the United States or the UK that record either digitally direct to a DVD-R or use HDMI for that purpose. The power of the Hollywood and movie lobby has blocked that -- as well as Blu-Ray recorders that can be part of an AV system. For the foreseeable future -- at least for the next five years if not longer -- ANALOG DVD Recorders are the only game in town outside of using a computer, as thestewman explained.

Whether DVD Recorders make poor recorders is in the eye of the beholder. IMHO, the recording quality is actually pretty good, even when viewed on a 65" HD plasma. Others may say the quality is cr*p. Regardless, it is the only way to permanently archive recordings on discs.

And that is what I do -- record on DVD-Rs for about 35 cents per disc. I really don't want to fill up hard drives with recordings, nor deal with the PC issues, firewire, etc

So if anyone can respond to my questions about how the D2v works as a switching device and preamp for recorders, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Okay, I have corrected some of the problem I had bitstreaming DTS HD Master Audio 5.1 from my Oppo 93 to my 50V and 7.1 coming out. Another classic case of “OPERATOR ERROR”.

I installed firmware 309f but I still had the problem. After a couple of hours of changing cables, reviewing setting etc., I noticed that over the last 2 years for some reason I had set the DVD1 mode presets to “None”. Apparently these settings had no adverse effects when I was running firmware 2.10 and 3.09 but became a problem when I installed 309c or 309f. I changed those presets to “Last Used” and problem solved. DTS HD Master Audio now plays properly if I use HDMI2 out of the Oppo 93. I will post the problem I am having with HDMI1 out of the Oppo if I can’t figure it out today.

I am not sure if I understand how these settings adversely affected the playback, especially since everything was fine before I first installed 309c but right now almost everything is working properly.

Thanks to all who offered suggestions.

What is your DVD- R recording device ?

It looks like Anthem partially addressed one of my complaints in some recent firmware, that the LAST USED setting was not working across power cycles in older firmware. I'm sorry but I don't know if this has been fixed fully. I would need to test it again, but lately I have noticed strange behavior with it remembering modes I never selected and the MODE status button not even showing the correct mode.

Where is Nick when you need him ...

Have you tried searching for posts in this thread by "Nick @ Anthem"? He has discussed this before, plus some of your other questions.

I had previously posted about common mode noise rejection (CMNR) without explaining it, so thank you for that.

The pros that were consulted in the studio will likely stick to the old "balanced for long runs, otherwise overkill" statement. I would argue, what's good for long runs is also good for short runs (but to a lesser extent obviously). With the low price of balanced cables from BlueJeans and the rest of the internet, it is hardly worth discussing. If your amp has balanced inputs, and your preamp has balanced outputs, just use them and forget about it.

By the way, some amps do the summing on the input, and some amps are balanced all the way to the output. In the latter case if you are using single-ended RCAs you might be using only half your amplifier! The other possibility is the signal goes through a very basic op-amp circuit to create "fake balanced" so the amp can operate fully, but with slightly reduced sound quality.

Bob, I think you said the latter bug was introduced in 3.09f and did not exist in 3.09c?

If that's the case, I would rather not have specified bug than "unspecified fixes"

+1

Cost of an excellent Mogami 25 ft balanced cable $139.95

Cost of a quality 25 ft audiophile speaker cable $1800.00

I am still having a problem that I can’t seem to resolve between my Anthem 50v and my Oppo 93.

I am using firmware 309f on the 50v and the Oppo has the latest firmware. When I try to watch a blu-ray that has DTS HD Master Audio as the audio source and I am using HDMI1 out from the Oppo connected to HDMI1 in on the Anthem I have the following problem. The previews and any pre movie spots that are using Dolby Digital all play correctly. When I go into setup for the feature and I select DTS HD Master Audio I have picture but no sound. When I check the status of the 50v it tells me that it is receiving “no signal” or “no digital signal”, but most times it shows that the signal is “Anlg-DSP”. If I check my DVD1 Source Setup (the input that I am using) in the 50v, my audio in selection is “Dig HDMI”.
Now the kicker, if I connect the output to HDMI2 on the Oppo and change nothing else, everything plays correctly, including the DTS HD Master Audio. Even though I am still telling the Oppo that my primary HDMI output is HDMI1.

I have 2 other Blu-ray players (a Sony 790 and a older LG 390) and they both play the discs correctly.

I suppose this is not a huge problem as I am using “Source Direct” to output video from the Oppo and letting the 50v do the processing. So I really don’t need to use HDMI1 out from the Oppo to utilize the Marvell QDEO video processor that is only available from the Oppo’s HDMI1 output.

But my question is still why?

I talked to Nick and modified my original posting (above) with his responses. To respond to another question, the DVD Recorder I use is a Toshiba. It is making SD recordings of any HD recording. But as I noted, the recording quality is actually pretty good IMHO. But that is in the eye of the beholder.

Hey guys, looking at possibly getting the AVM 50v. Quick question, I have 2 Paradigm Sub 12 subs and i have PBK. I noticed that the AVM 50v has 2 sub outputs but is stated at 7.1. If i connect each sub to each output, does ARC calibrate each sub individually then as a set? How does it calibrate the subs?

Since the AVM 50v has the full version of ARC, is there any need to run PBK for each sub?

Thanks!