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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1336

post #40051 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Thxtheater ...  your speakers responses look very good but the sub has a deep notch at 100Hz that is limiting its high frequency response to 80Hz, I believe ARC could gives a value of 110 - 120Hz if that notch is reduced.

I would also give my music config a listen first before lowering its xover points. You'd like the sub to handle the lower frequencies for it produces them easily with minimal distortion. Though your mains go down to 20Hz, i guarantee you their distortion at 20Hz is much higher than the same 20Hz produced from a subwoofer. That's what subs are designed to do ...produce low distortion sounds at low frequencies and at high spls.

At 75dB your mains go down to 20Hz and below as shown in the charts. But what about at 100dB or more where movie peaks are recorded? Their FR curve could show a response down to 50Hz or higher and with much more distortion to boot! Hence the need to allow the sub to handle the low end.

Dmusoke,

Thanks for your feedback and a question: Is ARC smoothly correcting that 100Hz notch in the "after" curve? I think it's hard to see with the screen shots that I ran ARC. With the sub, it looks to me like the green line is almost perfectly hugging the ideal target curve. I defer to you all on what you may be seeing.

Since you brought up the issue of the sub, I was wondering about the rolloff since my side surounds are being crossed over much higher than all the other speakers.

One thing that I have wondered (and I'm sure it's been answered somewhere somehow) is why ARC rolls off the low end and why in terms of the measurements does every single graph I've seen fall off at the upper end at around 10-20kHz. The beryllium tweeter in the Revels extends far beyond 20 without distortion. Is this a function of the speakers not being pointed straight on towards the microphone? My assumption is that the HF will be most impacted with a rolloff in those cases.
post #40052 of 42698
With regards to the high freq roll off, we have heard that perhaps the mic is not calibrated for the high freq. It's been said that the ARC curves are an average of the room response. with 5 mic positions and high freq being very directional it would seem logical that the average of these 5 mic positions, where probably 4 of them are not in the optimal position of these high freq, that the average would show a roll off.
post #40053 of 42698
Hi all, I haven't been around here for a while. Looks like the thread is still very active!

I have a D1 that was upgraded to D2 (D1-hd I guess) with the red video board. It has been working great for years but now I'm experiencing a little problem and was wondering if anyone else had it or if there is any advice. Naturally I'll get in touch with Anthem, but it's a long weekend up here.

I noticed recently that the coaxial digital input didn't work when I was going to do some room measurements using Room EQ Wizard. No biggie since I just used the analog inputs into the Anthem. I just got some new Rogers HD cable boxes and couldn't get sound from the coaxial or the optical digital output into the Anthem, even when I tried any of the jacks (and changed the corresponding setting in the menus). I then tried the HDMI connection but couldn't get any sound - in the Anthem video menu it says that it's reading it as a DVI source even though it has hdmi connectors. There's no audio with a DVI source so I'm guessing that the Anthem thinks there isn't one. Unfortunately, the Rogers box doesn't have many adjustments in their version of the operating system/firmware so I can't get any sound from the cable box!!!

I don't watch that much tv down in my mancave anyway but it's cost me my weekend trying to figure this out. It looks like something is shot in the digital input department. The hdmi works fine for my other sources and truthfully I should just take the cable box out or run analog stereo wires into the Anthem for those few times I watch cable down here. Not worth spending a lot of money to fix but just wondering if anyone has been through this and has any suggestions?

I did reload factory settings - no difference. I then reinstalled firmware 1.33. No difference.

thanks.
post #40054 of 42698
^^^Try a different source to verify its not the Anthem.

When I had TWC the sa8300dvr had to have hdmi turned on in the menu. You said there's not much work with so I'd call them if another source works.
post #40055 of 42698
Yeah I think it's the Anthem b/c 3 sources didn't work using digital coaxial input or optical digital into the Anthem.

Not sure if the cablebox issue I'm having is related or if it's separate...I'll call the cable company first and then see what Anthem says.
post #40056 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chileboy View Post

Is it possible on my AVM50 to direct Zone 2 or 3 (or RECORD) to the headphone jack and still use MAIN with the speakers? I want to listen to LPs (Analog Direct) while my significant other watches TV.

I looked at the manual, as well as searching here, but I can't figure out if it's possible. I apologize if this has been asked before.

Thanks,

- Mark
Mark,

My recollection is that you cannot. The headphone jack is parallel to the MAIN zone. So your only options are to play main and headphones in parallel or to mute the main when the headphones are inserted. Your options are (depending on how crazy and complex you want to get):

1) Use a separate headphone amp connected to zone2 or zone3.

2) Run all component out from the cable box to the anthem and switch your TV watching to component plus both analog and digital out. When she wants to watch TV, you watch it via one of the TV's AUX component inputs with analog audio via the TVs speakers.

3) Get an HDMI 1x2 splitter. Pass one signal to the Anthem. Pass the second signal directly to the TV. She can then watch TV via the TV speakers from a second HDMI input.

You will just have to find another way to bypass it.

Thanks very much, after experimenting some more I was coming to the same conclusion. Best option is obviously the separate headphone amp. I think I've spoiled her, she'll never be happy again with the TV's speakers!

Guess I'll be adding yet another box to the system <<sigh>>. Time to research headphone amps.

Thanks again,

- Mark
post #40057 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by chileboy View Post

Thanks very much, after experimenting some more I was coming to the same conclusion. Best option is obviously the separate headphone amp. I think I've spoiled her, she'll never be happy again with the TV's speakers!

Guess I'll be adding yet another box to the system <<sigh>>. Time to research headphone amps.

Thanks again,

- Mark

LOL. It's a beautiful thing when we do that to our wives. If you're looking for a headphone amp solution, check out Schiit. Well regarded and reviewed, all USA-built, entry-level to high end, absolutely hysterical product descriptions. They have an intro-level headphone amp at $99. http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=13 going all the way up to Mjolnir at $749 http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=10

If you are in the mood for one of the best-ever product descriptions, read this: http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=12

I laugh every single time I read it.
post #40058 of 42698
^ These look pretty nice, actually. And you're right, funny write-up. Nice to see they don't take themselves too seriously - love their take on high-end cable-speak.

Thanks, will definitely consider these. Maybe the Valhalla if I can swing it, I use a tube phono preamp, might be a good match.
post #40059 of 42698
Anyone try sending a webform message to Anthem recently? I've got Windows 7 and Internet Explorer 9. After typing a lengthy message and then pressing "send" I got an error message saying that a mandatory field wasn't filled in, and my whole message disappeared. Damn. Retyped it, copied and pasted the message elsewhere and same thing. So I sent the message via email using the address they used to use years ago. Hopefully it goes through. Sometimes technology and progress don't exactly deliver the goods I guess.
post #40060 of 42698
Friends,

For my bedroom stereo with room challenges, I am looking for a pre-pro with room correction and I can get a good deal on D1 or D2 with ARC and was wondering how good is the ARC for stereo only?

My other option is Marantz AV7005, Denon 4311 as pre-amp. I also have a Sherwood 972 in another system. Any experience you can share will be appreciated.

And just to clarify....I do not have subwoofer and don't plan to use any.....The speakers I have are B&W 802

Thanks,
AS
post #40061 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar View Post

Friends,

For my bedroom stereo with room challenges, I am looking for a pre-pro with room correction and I can get a good deal on D1 or D2 with ARC and was wondering how good is the ARC for stereo only?

My other option is Marantz AV7005, Denon 4311 as pre-amp. I also have a Sherwood 972 in another system. Any experience you can share will be appreciated.

And just to clarify....I do not have subwoofer and don't plan to use any.....The speakers I have are B&W 802

Thanks,
AS

The 802's have very nice extension and would do nicely with an ARC correction if you are having any room-related issues. I use ARC in stereo listening myself and the you can notice the difference.

If you are looking at the D1 or D2, then you are also going to benefit from the superlative DACs in those units, which are superior to any of the other units you mentioned. Also, if the other units have Audyssey, they need to have the pro version to give you the flexibility you get out of the box with ARC. The pro version of Audyssey (if the units support it) costs about another $700 to get.
post #40062 of 42698
There is also a good deal on NAD 175HD available? I know it has Audyssey XT and if the question has been answered in the 1135 pages of this thread I apologize but can anyone share experience and comparison of NAD 175HD against D2 with ARC?

Thanks
post #40063 of 42698
Quote:
Dmusoke,

Thanks for your feedback and a question: Is ARC smoothly correcting that 100Hz notch in the "after" curve? I think it's hard to see with the screen shots that I ran ARC. With the sub, it looks to me like the green line is almost perfectly hugging the ideal target curve. I defer to you all on what you may be seeing.

Since you brought up the issue of the sub, I was wondering about the rolloff since my side surounds are being crossed over much higher than all the other speakers.

One thing that I have wondered (and I'm sure it's been answered somewhere somehow) is why ARC rolls off the low end and why in terms of the measurements does every single graph I've seen fall off at the upper end at around 10-20kHz. The beryllium tweeter in the Revels extends far beyond 20 without distortion. Is this a function of the speakers not being pointed straight on towards the microphone? My assumption is that the HF will be most impacted with a rolloff in those cases.

 

1. I think ARC has decided that the downward slope of the response curve is represents the natural room/sub response of your system, hence the correction it gives, including the notch at 100Hz. In my opinion, you should spend time moving the sub about to eliminate or reduce the size of the notch. Use Quick Measure(QM) as an aide in your search for the best sub location. We all have these subs in the beginning and then spend knee & elbow time moving the sub around the room to improve them. The effort is worth it but do it gradually as you watch the change in frequency response using QM.

 

2.  The L/R surrounds are crossed that high due to their frequency response. THX specifies that the minimum frequency of the surrounds should be 80Hz and yours only reach to 125Hz. You may try to move them closer to the wall, if they are not wall mounted already to take advantage of room gain in the low end.

 

3. . High frequency roll off, if the speakers can handle it, is due to several factors including pointing accuracy and microphone frequency response. In your case, again using QM toe-in the speakers to see if the frequency response improves. Make sure the microphone is an ear-height at the primary listening position.

post #40064 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar View Post

There is also a good deal on NAD 175HD available? I know it has Audyssey XT and if the question has been answered in the 1135 pages of this thread I apologize but can anyone share experience and comparison of NAD 175HD against D2 with ARC?

Thanks

The Audyssey multEQ XT is not in the same league as ARC. You need to step up to the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 installer version is more comparable to ARC. The installer version gives you the additional flexibility and graphs that ARC gives you out of the box. You can see a chart of the different Audyssey versions here: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

You'll see that there's a big difference between MultEQ XT and MultEQ XT32 (non-installer).

When it comes to EQ in my limited experience, the biggest difference will be in the low end of the spectrum and what exactly the EQ needs to do in the room. You always, always, always need to get the best speaker placement you can before you do EQ. Then, EQ is there to help out with the extra that you can't do simply with speaker placement.

There's also more than just the EQ when you are talking about a D2. That's a whole different level. You get better DACs, pristine analog section, ability to have custom movie and music settings, ability to set your surrounds as dipole or direct, tailor your settings by individual input with either bass/treble adjustments or auto-recognize an LFE signal to switch from a music to movie mode, to setting customized video settings for different inputs, etc. etc. If I'm not mistaken you also get 8 HDMI inputs with the D2 (but not sure which version you are referring to) vs only 4 for the NAD.

Now, the one thing that I really, really like about the NAD is it's proposed modular construction and design. The only question that I would ask NAD is what they are doing for 4k, etc. If you have the ability to swap out the board for 4k, that's a nice feature.

There's a quick comparison here between the D2 and the NAD.
Comparison
The NAD T 175 doesn’t have the multitude of setup options of my reference A/V processor, the Anthem Statement D2, or the Anthem’s high level of transparency -- but neither does it have the much higher price of the D2 ($7499 when available). When I listened to “Heart of Gold,” from Neil Young Archives, Vol.1: 1963-1972 (CD, Reprise 0093624996057), the Anthem was better able to convey a sense of energy from this live recording. There was a darker background, and more smoothness to Young’s harmonica, in addition to an authenticity in his voice, that just sounded more alive. The NAD still sounded excellent with music-only recordings, and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to both standard- and hi-rez two-channel recordings through it. Overall, I preferred the sound of the Anthem Statement D2, but considering that the NAD T 175 costs less than half as much, it came surprisingly close.
http://nadelectronics.com/articles/SoundStage-Reviews-the-T-175-AV-PreAmp

Take it with a grain of salt like anything else. In my opinion, if a D2 was in my budget, I'd grab it. That doesn't imply that the NAD is a slouch. I've owned NAD equipment for years (still have an integrated amp) and it's great sounding equipment.

At the end of the day, I don't think you can go wrong with either and you'd probably be happy with both.
post #40065 of 42698
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. Will help me tremendously in my search for a processor with good deal!!!!
post #40066 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar View Post

For my bedroom stereo with room challenges...

I do not have subwoofer and don't plan to use any.....The speakers I have are B&W 802

That's why they (B&W) make smaller speakers and subs smile.gif
Edited by AVfile - 2/20/13 at 10:10am
post #40067 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

That's why they make smaller speakers and subs smile.gif

Tried that and went back to B&W....smile.gif
post #40068 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar View Post

Friends,

For my bedroom stereo with room challenges, I am looking for a pre-pro with room correction and I can get a good deal on D1 or D2 with ARC and was wondering how good is the ARC for stereo only?

My other option is Marantz AV7005, Denon 4311 as pre-amp. I also have a Sherwood 972 in another system. Any experience you can share will be appreciated.

And just to clarify....I do not have subwoofer and don't plan to use any.....The speakers I have are B&W 802

Thanks,
AS

How do you know the room has "Challenges "?
Most of the work done by ARC is in the sub.
If you are listening only to stereo what are your sources ?
post #40069 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

How do you know the room has "Challenges "?
Most of the work done by ARC is in the sub.
If you are listening only to stereo what are your sources ?

I have tried multieq on my Denon 4306 from my home theater as a pre-pro and the improvement was clearly audible.

My sources are all digital. Sirius XM, 320 MP3 from PS3 and Dish Network.

BTW, I was under impression that ARC does work nicely for full range speakers. I did not go thro' the 3300+ pages in this thread, but am I mistaken here?
post #40070 of 42698
^ ARC works nicely with or without a Sub.

Generally speaking, unless your "full range" speakers have powered woofers, I would recommend you include a Sub. Most "full range" speakers can't reproduce the lowest bass at volume as well as a decent Sub. However, if you don't have a Sub, ARC will certainly take care of the bass your full range speakers are able to reproduce.
--Bob
post #40071 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ ARC works nicely with or without a Sub.

--Bob


Thanks Bob. What kind of algorithms and DSP theory ARC uses? EG IIR or FIR? Almost all other RC solutions claim some kind of "blah-blah" transform and algorithms to prove their superiority. Is this a public information for ARC?

Again Not that I understand all the mumbo-jumbo but I am just curious...
post #40072 of 42698
^ Anthem has never published technical details of how ARC works, except to say that it was derived from certain, Canadian funded university research into which aspects of room response added to listening quality and which detracted from it.
--Bob
post #40073 of 42698
I sold in Thailand.
post #40074 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ ARC works nicely with or without a Sub.

Generally speaking, unless your "full range" speakers have powered woofers, I would recommend you include a Sub. Most "full range" speakers can't reproduce the lowest bass at volume as well as a decent Sub. However, if you don't have a Sub, ARC will certainly take care of the bass your full range speakers are able to reproduce.
--Bob

It's a bedroom system with two B&W 802 speakers! I don't think his problem is a LACK of bass smile.gif
post #40075 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

It's a bedroom system with two B&W 802 speakers! I don't think his problem is a LACK of bass smile.gif

That is true. I realized after trying out Multieq that bass was bloated. Multieq did clean it up a lot. But my reading on Multieq told me that Multieq does not use "enough" variables and data points for satellites channels....Hence the "upgraditis" to something better....cool.gif
post #40076 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar View Post

That is true. I realized after trying out Multieq that bass was bloated. Multieq did clean it up a lot. But my reading on Multieq told me that Multieq does not use "enough" variables and data points for satellites channels....Hence the "upgraditis" to something better....cool.gif

OR

Use it as you stated earlier to listen to 2 channel music. Forget the AV processor and use something like the Classé CP-800 D/A preamplifier to listen to your iPod or MP3 music
post #40077 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar View Post

That is true. I realized after trying out Multieq that bass was bloated. Multieq did clean it up a lot. But my reading on Multieq told me that Multieq does not use "enough" variables and data points for satellites channels....Hence the "upgraditis" to something better....cool.gif

Hence my comment about choosing the right size speakers for the room and its placement constraints.

I'll take those nasty 802's off your hands and leave you 804's + ASW 855 Sub wink.gif

But that's not why you posted here. I dug up this post that might help you understand a bit about Anthem:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

... room correction is to be run on top of it, all with a crossover algorithm created to prevent audible rounding errors plus a room correction system that uses twice the processing power as the industry average for home systems and about as same as pro systems. In an ideal world one fast DSP chip would handle everything with no compromise but that has to wait for another time. The D1 was the first processor to use dual Motorola chips, having been planned with room correction in mind, and for that we had to create a way of making one chip talk to the other. It wasn't as easy as it seemed in the beginning and that alone delayed the project more than could have been anticipated. Later, that end evolved into the current dual core Freescale chips with the HD decoders and 8-channel 192 kHz capability, but the perfect system is still elusive. How bad is this? I say hardly bad at all. Hypothetically, others can claim that they have the ideal system but frankly I'll believe that when I see it and wouldn't give up ARC for anything else on the market today. (Yes that's obviously biased even though I just work here, but just try to pry it away...).

Edited by AVfile - 2/22/13 at 9:19am
post #40078 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

OR

Use it as you stated earlier to listen to 2 channel music. Forget the AV processor and use something like the Classé CP-800 D/A preamplifier to listen to your iPod or MP3 music

And what kind of room correction does Classe has???

Thanks
post #40079 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post


I'll take those nasty 802's off your hands and leave you 804's + ASW 855 Sub wink.gif

I always thought of 802s as two satellites sitting on top of two passive sub-woofers....
Edited by asangamnerkar - 2/22/13 at 10:32am
post #40080 of 42698
Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar View Post

And what kind of room correction does Classe has???

Thanks

No room correction.
Just amazing good sound in stereo from your compressed audio digital files.
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