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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1348

post #40411 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

This is an HDMI handshake error. The display thinks it is getting RGB video when you are actually sending YCbCr video. In your Video Output Configuration in Setup, try setting an explicit output choice (YCbCr 4:4:4 would be typical) instead of using Auto. That simplifies the handshake and can help prevent such miscommunication.
--Bob

Ok well that worked. Nothing but blue screen now. I get it now after fiddling with setting. CD mode on Anthem is already set up in Bass Management Music mode, and Arc has done it`s job there as well. Now I don`t want to mess with ARC setting for movie or my HDMI connection, but with the 2 interconnects or CD mode on Anthem wouldn`t it be better for crossovers for L/R to be set lower than 60hz, or would that mess up ARC settings as well? Also has anyone experienced any static coming through tweeters every now and then with AVM 50v. Only noticed this static after I changed over from NAD T175HD processor and NAD T975 amp. My new amp is Anthem A5.
post #40412 of 42717
Any thoughts on what might cause this?

Every time I hit the guide button for my CDN Satellite Dish I get a quick flash of green static and I lose picture and sometimes sound. I replaced the satellite receiver and it still does it, I also changed HDMI inputs and replaced the HDMI cable with a Blue Jeans High Speed and I have no automatic settings selected in the D2v. If I press exit my picture comes back, there are no other complaints for this on the CDN Dish Forum.

John
post #40413 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

Any thoughts on what might cause this?

Every time I hit the guide button for my CDN Satellite Dish I get a quick flash of green static and I lose picture and sometimes sound. I replaced the satellite receiver and it still does it, I also changed HDMI inputs and replaced the HDMI cable with a Blue Jeans High Speed and I have no automatic settings selected in the D2v. If I press exit my picture comes back, there are no other complaints for this on the CDN Dish Forum.

John

Do you need to update firmware for the D2v?

When you lose the image, try switching the D2v to a different input and back to force a new handshake. If you can get the image back, check the Select button displays to see what's coming in for video and audio format, to see if that gives you any clues.

Try switching the input ROW on the D2v. The upper 4 inputs and the lower 4 use different circuits.

If the HDMI from the CDN to the D2v is short, try a 6 foot HDMI cable. Sometimes short cables can cause problems like cables that are too long.
--Bob
post #40414 of 42717
Hi. I hope this is in the right spot for feedback. If not, please let me know where I should be posting.

Here's my first run of ARC with a D2, following the instructions for ARC as posted elsewhere on the site. Setup is:

Fronts: B&W N804's
Surrounds: B&W N805's
Center: B&W HTM2
Subs: 2x Velodyne HGS12x (sub filters are not in line, so is direct output from the D2)

Crossover set to 50hz for all speakers. I'm not sure I understand the content of the target window, included below. I manually set the crossovers for all speakers to 50hz. The uploaded parameters appear to be what's in the target window, meaning that the 50hz was ignored and there are different values in the system. Is that the point of the ARC - that it sets optimal crossover points for each speaker as part of the process? And - that I would assume from other comments on this board that I would want to leave that alone? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Any comments are welcome on the results or suggested changes to the measurements. The db's seem a bit low to me, but maybe that doesn't matter much. The room was otherwise quiet.

Thank you!




Edited by bigdaddy999 - 4/5/13 at 6:33am
post #40415 of 42717
^ You said Crossovers set to 50Hz for all speakers, but that's not what your ARC Targets window shows.

If you changed the Crossover values in Setup AFTER the ARC Upload then that was a mistake. Any changes like that should be made in the Targets window itself. Then re-Calculate and re-Upload (no need to re-Measure).

There are no particular problems in the charts as shown. You could experiment with things like raising Max EQ Frequency a bit to extend correction above the default stopping point of 5KHz. You could also try the Flat setting for the low end of your Sub (Advanced button at the bottom of the Targets window then change the filter from Auto to Flat). You could also experiment with lowering Room Gain a dB if you'd like slightly less bass. But all of these are refinements. Once you've corrected the 50Hz mistake (if indeed you did that) the key is to spend some time listening. It should sound excellent as is.
--Bob
post #40416 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ You said Crossovers set to 50Hz for all speakers, but that's not what your ARC Targets window shows.

If you changed the Crossover values in Setup AFTER the ARC Upload then that was a mistake. Any changes like that should be made in the Targets window itself. Then re-Calculate and re-Upload (no need to re-Measure).

There are no particular problems in the charts as shown. You could experiment with things like raising Max EQ Frequency a bit to extend correction above the default stopping point of 5KHz. You could also try the Flat setting for the low end of your Sub (Advanced button at the bottom of the Targets window then change the filter from Auto to Flat). You could also experiment with lowering Room Gain a dB if you'd like slightly less bass. But all of these are refinements. Once you've corrected the 50Hz mistake (if indeed you did that) the key is to spend some time listening. It should sound excellent as is.
--Bob

Thanks, Bob. I made the changes to 50hz BEFORE running the ARC, so was reacting to the adjustments that ARC made. I had thought I could force the system to EQ based on the crossovers I set. Now I see I can do that based on the Target panel/recalc/upload process. So thank you for explaining that.

I think I'll do some listening based on what it selected first. Everyone talks about the positive reaction to ARC, so I don't want to try to out-think it before I know how well it's done in the first place! One thing I noticed the first time I listened was that the sound was more focused and also seemed a bit more "forward" tending towards brash. The bass issues in my room was the driver from upgrading from the AVM20 to the D2. Many peaks and suckouts in my largish volume trapezoidal space with some large openings to boot. The "flat" setting might be just the ticket.

Also I focused the measurements around the prime area, running 5 (3 at each seating position on the main couch, plus another one at each end). I would assume that optimizing the measures around what is the only important spot (where *I* sit) is the right approach vs. trying to tame all the sonic demons in the room which I wouldn't hear from that spot, and nobody else gets a vote. Or does ARC improve with more measures further off the target seating area?

Thanks very much!
post #40417 of 42717
^ Right, you just want to sample the seating area, with side to side and forward back differences in mic position, and with all the mic positions spaced out so no two are closer than 2 feet apart (I like to use 30 inches).

Mic position #1 must be in the center of seating as it is the one that sets the volume trims, and subsequent mic positions should alternate either side of #1. Point the mic straight up, with the tip at seated ear height, and keeping the tip away from any blocking/reflective surfaces like seat backs or walls (shift the mic away from those a foot or so if you need to).
--Bob
post #40418 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddy999 View Post

Thanks, Bob. I made the changes to 50hz BEFORE running the ARC, so was reacting to the adjustments that ARC made. I had thought I could force the system to EQ based on the crossovers I set. Now I see I can do that based on the Target panel/recalc/upload process. So thank you for explaining that.

I think I'll do some listening based on what it selected first. Everyone talks about the positive reaction to ARC, so I don't want to try to out-think it before I know how well it's done in the first place! One thing I noticed the first time I listened was that the sound was more focused and also seemed a bit more "forward" tending towards brash. The bass issues in my room was the driver from upgrading from the AVM20 to the D2. Many peaks and suckouts in my largish volume trapezoidal space with some large openings to boot. The "flat" setting might be just the ticket.

Also I focused the measurements around the prime area, running 5 (3 at each seating position on the main couch, plus another one at each end). I would assume that optimizing the measures around what is the only important spot (where *I* sit) is the right approach vs. trying to tame all the sonic demons in the room which I wouldn't hear from that spot, and nobody else gets a vote. Or does ARC improve with more measures further off the target seating area?

Thanks very much!

Not so fast Big Daddy tongue.gif

It is important to differentiate between the settings in the setup menu and the ARC settings in the target area.
The setup menu settings ARE the crossovers that ARC installs and adjusts to its recommendations after running ARC.
It is a common recommendation from both users and Anthem that you should not change those crossovers.
The settings in the ARC Target are the cutoffs similar but not the actual crossovers. You can read how Anthem describes them in the information area of the Target just below the subwoofer information.
Since your curves look so good I personally would not change them. Your subs crossover well and the charts indicate your RT and Left speakers integrate well with the subs.

You need all 5 measurements as Anthem states in the instructions so the microphone can pickup some of the reflected sound s etc in the room.
post #40419 of 42717
Yes, I did all 5, starting with the prime position, but didn't alternate all of them.

Sequence was this, with 3-1-2 on the couch.

4-3-1-2-5

But I don't really understand the difference between the settings I made in the speaker configuration for the crossovers and what ARC changed. I changed each speaker to 50hz, including the LFE/sub. After ARC, there are no 50's in the menu on the D2, just the target numbers. So it seemed to me that ARC over-wrote those adjustments?

I can't really figure out what they're saying in that Target window info box. Your explanation appears to be saying the same thing - whatever was in those settings is over-written by the ARC upload. Is your point that those 50hz settings used during the initial measurements, then? That would "suggest" the performance of the speakers for the measurement, and the get tweaked from there. If that's the case, I can see keeping the measurements I have rather than starting over. The last statement in the target box suggests using "auto detect", which I am guessing will measure the frequency response for each speaker as an input before measuring? If not 50hz, what would you suggest the D2 settings be BEFORE I run measurements?

My goal for the subs was to be cut off at lower frequencies to minimize any localization effects, I thought I'd max the effective range of the mains (supposedly OK to 42hz, but I selected 50 in the crossover settings before ARC) at the same time. Then the subs could do what they do best, and the mains likewise. Running the subs to 120 seems unnecessary. BUT, the curves look good, but I haven't had time to do some critical listening yet. I am a bit confused, but would love to understand how this works.

Many thanks for your help with this.
post #40420 of 42717
^ One of the things ARC Uploads is Crossover values in the Setup menu, overwriting whatever was in Setup for those before that. The Crossovers are part of the ARC solution. That's why you can't alter them after the fact in Setup -- the solution depends on those values.

If you want to experiment with DIFFERENT Crossover choices than what ARC selected for you then go into the Targets Window in the ARC app, enter your desired changes, accept those changes, then Calculate (button upper left) and Upload (same place). ARC will build and Upload a *NEW* solution -- as best it can -- based on the Target values you have adjusted, instead of the ones it picked for you.

The values in the Targets window are called Cutoffs and are really a different thing, but the nature of the ARC solution is that for all the main speakers the Crossover value will be set to match the Cutoff value in ARC's Targets window when it does the Calculation. (For the Sub, the Cutoff, and the Uploaded Crossover will typically be different -- you can't force a Crossover value for the Sub because ARC needs the freedom to set that to do its job).
--Bob
post #40421 of 42717
Also, be aware that the Crossover is not a sudden change at that frequency. The Crossover transitions into effect over about an octave (factor of 2 in frequency).

That means if you set a Crossover of 60Hz, your speakers will be expected to contribute quality sound down to around 30Hz. If you set a crossover of 50Hz, your speakers will be expected to contribute down to about 25 Hz. If your speakers are really only good to 40Hz, then the natural Crossover for them would be 80Hz. Evidently, ARC has decided your speakers are better than that.
--Bob
post #40422 of 42717
Thanks, Bob.

Yes I was aware of crossover overlap, but hadn't thought about the degree of "expected performance" - like down to 25hz if I selected 50. But ARC put in 60 as a result of the measurements for the mains. I just checked the unit again, and the sub was set by ARC at 65 for xover.

The other setting that got changed was "2-subs" to "1-sub". I have the two subs wired off both sub outputs. Both subs work, so I guess the manual is not right about 2-sub being used to drive both sub line outputs.

What I'm taking away from this discussion is that what I put into the crossover fields pre-measurement didn't really matter since with an ARC-enabled unit, the ARC will select those values as part of the calculation, and then upload them. I'm good with that.... Time to listen!

Thanks again.
post #40423 of 42717
1-Sub is required when using ARC regardless of whether you have more than 1 Sub. That's also in the Manual, but it is easy to miss.

All the 1-Sub vs. 2-Sub setting does is change the way the Sub volume trim value is applied. The value ARC Uploads is calculated assuming 1-Sub will be set.
--Bob
post #40424 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

All the 1-Sub vs. 2-Sub setting does is change the way the Sub volume trim value is applied.

What are the different ways the sub trim can be applied, and is it ok to change it after ARC solution is uploaded?
post #40425 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

All the 1-Sub vs. 2-Sub setting does is change the way the Sub volume trim value is applied.

What are the different ways the sub trim can be applied, and is it ok to change it after ARC solution is uploaded?

I recommend you leave the Sub volume trim (Setup > Level Calibration) as ARC Uploaded it. If you feel the need to adjust Sub output for particular content, you can do that with the "temporary" volume trim buttons on the remote (just above the digits). See Section 4.6 in the Manual. Such "temporary" changes do not alter the values in Setup > Level Calibration. IMPORTANT NOTE: These "temporary" settings are remember per type of Input Format, NOT per Source. So a change you make for DTS-HD MA input, for example, will apply to ANY Source feeding that Bitstream.

If you get confused about what you have set with the "temporary" settings, you can reset ALL of them at one go as follows:

Go into Setup and
1) Save User Settings
2) Reload Factory Defaults. If you lose video, continue using the Front Panel Display.
3) Reload Saved User Settings

Since the "temporary" settings are not Saved, this Resets all of them.



If instead of a content specific adjustment like this you feel that ARC has built too much or too little bass into your solution altogether, I suggest you approach that by changing Targets > Room Gain up or down a couple dB. Then re-Calculate and re-Upload. No need to re-Measure. This is mostly appropriate if you think you are getting too MUCH bass (i.e., adjust Room Gain down). On the charts, Room Gain is the shallow hump in the Target and Calculated curves near and below the Crossover frequencies. The Room Gain value is simply the height, in dB, of the peak of that hump over the normal volume level of the curve for that speaker. The effect of Room Gain on what you hear is exactly what you would expect from the shape and height of that hump.

If, on the other hand, you feel you are getting too LITTLE bass (despite the Sub's Calculated curve looking good in ARC), the first thing you should do is verify that the Polarity and Phase of your Sub are properly set to match your main speakers. Since the mains and sub are BOTH playing the same bass at the same time through the octave below the Crossover frequency, if the Sub is out of Phase with the mains you can get phase cancellation. This would sound like anemic bass.

If you only have ONE Subwoofer, you can correct Polarity and Phase for that Sub without having to redo ARC -- your existing ARC solution will just sound better. But if you have MORE than one Sub, and adjust Polarity or Phase in any of them, then you need to re-Measure for ARC as the adjustment you made will alter the combined bass output of the Subs playing together -- which is what ARC hears during Measurement.

As always, if this is your first experience with ARC do not jump to the conclusion that ARC has made a mistake you need to fix. It may simply be that you are not used to listening to properly calibrated audio in your room. Give it some time, before you make "fixes" to what ARC has done. And then periodically go back to what ARC did on its own to reconfirm your "fixes" really are better. But the basic stuff like entering proper speaker distances and setting proper Polarity/Phase for your Sub are your responsibility. ARC can't set those.
--Bob
post #40426 of 42717
I have been reading a lot about the antimode 8033. One of the claims I keep running into is it "corrects in the time domain". Is that something arc does as well? I am wondering if a $400 stand alone unit can improve on arc or not. Does anyone have thoughts or experience with the antimode and arc?
post #40427 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by xMEATx View Post

I have been reading a lot about the antimode 8033. One of the claims I keep running into is it "corrects in the time domain". Is that something arc does as well? I am wondering if a $400 stand alone unit can improve on arc or not. Does anyone have thoughts or experience with the antimode and arc?

NO is my 2¢ Opinion
post #40428 of 42717
Thanks, drhankz.
post #40429 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Do you need to update firmware for the D2v?

When you lose the image, try switching the D2v to a different input and back to force a new handshake. If you can get the image back, check the Select button displays to see what's coming in for video and audio format, to see if that gives you any clues.

Try switching the input ROW on the D2v. The upper 4 inputs and the lower 4 use different circuits.

If the HDMI from the CDN to the D2v is short, try a 6 foot HDMI cable. Sometimes short cables can cause problems like cables that are too long.
--Bob

Firmware is 3.09f, picture will come back after switching inputs and back but goes out after a second or two (with the guide on) video and audio do not fluctuate. It does it on the top row (new HDMI board) and bottom row and the HDMI cable is 6'. Interesting though is that when I get the guide up and it goes out if I hold the #7 button down on the D2v to get the OSD my picture comes back and stays back as long as the OSD is on, when I hit exit to get rid of the OSD the picture goes out, every time.

John
post #40430 of 42717
My AVM 50v has stopped working in DTS-HD I can only get PCM while watching movie. Oppo display says DTS-HD so I don`t think it`s Oppo. Any thoughts? Played multiple blu ray discs and all of them playback through PCM. The Avengers, Dark knight Rises, Harry Potter 7. All are DTS-HD and only PCM comes out of Anthem.
Edited by turk 182 - 4/6/13 at 11:24am
post #40431 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk 182 View Post

My AVM 50v has stopped working in DTS-HD I can only get PCM while watching movie. Oppo display says DTS-HD so I don`t think it`s Oppo. Any thoughts? Played multiple blu ray discs and all of them playback through PCM. The Avengers, Dark knight Rises, Harry Potter 7. All are DTS-HD and only PCM comes out of Anthem.

Set HDMI Audio Bitstream in the OPPO. What the OPPO is displaying is the input -- the track being read off the disc -- not it's output to the Anthem.
--Bob
post #40432 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

Firmware is 3.09f, picture will come back after switching inputs and back but goes out after a second or two (with the guide on) video and audio do not fluctuate. It does it on the top row (new HDMI board) and bottom row and the HDMI cable is 6'. Interesting though is that when I get the guide up and it goes out if I hold the #7 button down on the D2v to get the OSD my picture comes back and stays back as long as the OSD is on, when I hit exit to get rid of the OSD the picture goes out, every time.

John
Give Anthem Tech Support a call and see what they say. They may ask you to install firmware V3.09h, although I don't think there are any changes in it that would affect your problem. This is an odd one. I don't recall anyone else here reporting what you are reporting.
--Bob
post #40433 of 42717
Hi everyone, I am hoping that someone who has the 50V set up with a 7.1 speaker system and is using beta firmware 3.09h could look at something for me. I have a 50V using balanced outputs to a Cary 7 channel amp. I have a Oppo 93 blu-ray player connected to HDMI1 and a Panasonic 500 blu-ray player connected to HDMI2. I am using “bitstream” to output audio and I get the same results with both players. I did switch the Oppo to “PCM” as a test and still got the same result.

If I try to watch a blu-ray movie that is encoded with DTS HD Master audio 5.1, my 50V shows that it is receiving 5.1 audio from the player but it is outputting 7.1 audio and indeed it is as I have sound from the rear speakers. It does not matter if I have the mode settings on “NONE” or “LAST USED” I still get sound from the rear speakers.

I don’t see anyone talking about this problem, so I don’t really know if it is a bug in the beta firmware or I have something screwed up in my settings. I’ve gone over my settings many times and everything looks okay to me but you never know.

If you have a 7.1 system and are using 3.09h firmware, I would appreciate it if you could check the audio input and output while watching a DTS HD Master 5.1 movie. Press “SELECT” repeatedly on your Anthem remote to check to processor’s status.
post #40434 of 42717
Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerbob View Post

I am using “bitstream” to output audio and I get the same results with both players. I did switch the Oppo to “PCM” as a test and still got the same result.

If I try to watch a blu-ray movie that is encoded with DTS HD Master audio 5.1, my 50V shows that it is receiving 5.1 audio from the player but it is outputting 7.1 audio and indeed it is as I have sound from the rear speakers. It does not matter if I have the mode settings on “NONE” or “LAST USED” I still get sound from the rear speakers.

I have a 50v with the same firmware. The status indicates 7.1 (LS LR RR RS) but there is no sound coming from the rears when playing PCM, TrueHD, or DTS HD MA 5.1. It would appear to be a display bug. It doesn’t do it with DD 5.1.

I normally use PLIIX so I would never have noticed this. Nice find, but surprised you are hearing sound too.

In SETUP - 3. Speaker Config I have d. REARS set to Direct, in case that matters.

Stefan
Edited by AVfile - 4/6/13 at 6:18pm
post #40435 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

Firmware is 3.09f, picture will come back after switching inputs and back but goes out after a second or two (with the guide on) video and audio do not fluctuate. It does it on the top row (new HDMI board) and bottom row and the HDMI cable is 6'. Interesting though is that when I get the guide up and it goes out if I hold the #7 button down on the D2v to get the OSD my picture comes back and stays back as long as the OSD is on, when I hit exit to get rid of the OSD the picture goes out, every time.

John

Is your video output in the D2v set to THROUGH? The sat box may be switching format when you activate the guide. What does the VXP INFO page (in the #7 menu) say about the incoming signal?
post #40436 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

All the 1-Sub vs. 2-Sub setting does is change the way the Sub volume trim value is applied. The value ARC Uploads is calculated assuming 1-Sub will be set.
--Bob

The manual says it simply reduces the sub channel's test noise level to compensate for using both sub outputs (not applicable with ARC). Nothing about volume trims, but I was hoping for a way to increase the LFE trim specifically (not the entire channel).
post #40437 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Set HDMI Audio Bitstream in the OPPO. What the OPPO is displaying is the input -- the track being read off the disc -- not it's output to the Anthem.
--Bob

Did that and I still got PCM. Shut it off for awhile and DTS-HD came back, fixed it self. However, just borrowed The Dark Knight and can only get Dolby Digital not DD-HD. Could it be a HDMI handshake issue? When I play a movie I have to mute my tv, could Anthem be getting confused by that? Is there a way to shut off audio in HDMI out and just have video?
post #40438 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk 182 View Post

Did that and I still got PCM. Shut it off for awhile and DTS-HD came back, fixed it self. However, just borrowed The Dark Knight and can only get Dolby Digital not DD-HD. Could it be a HDMI handshake issue? When I play a movie I have to mute my tv, could Anthem be getting confused by that? Is there a way to shut off audio in HDMI out and just have video?
If you temporarily unplug the HDMI feeding the TV, then select something else then switch back to the BD player input, does it then enable TrueHD? If not, then the TV is not involved.
post #40439 of 42717
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk 182 View Post

Did that and I still got PCM. Shut it off for awhile and DTS-HD came back, fixed it self. However, just borrowed The Dark Knight and can only get Dolby Digital not DD-HD. Could it be a HDMI handshake issue? When I play a movie I have to mute my tv, could Anthem be getting confused by that? Is there a way to shut off audio in HDMI out and just have video?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If you temporarily unplug the HDMI feeding the TV, then select something else then switch back to the BD player input, does it then enable TrueHD? If not, then the TV is not involved.

I believe your experiencing the EDID code on the HDMI cable to the TV . The TV is signaling the Anthem AVM 50 that it is 2 channel and the Anthem is then
switching to 2 channel PCM.
Does your TV have the ability in its preferences or setup to turn off the audio ?
And in your Anthem setup check to make sure that the source is setup to receive HDMI for the Audio input.
post #40440 of 42717
Here's another one for you. Tried to listen to music today and don't get any audio unless the display is turned on. Pretty sure this is new since the 3D/bypass board upgrade.
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