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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1372

post #41131 of 42673
^ I don't know the answer regarding your Fathom subs. The owner's thread for that sub here, or their tech support, should be able to answer that. Another easy way to tell is to see if it has a setting for adjusting the attenuation of the lowest frequencies. Typically there would be a very steep roll-off (perhaps -24dB per octave) below some frequency and that frequency (say 20Hz) might be adjustable.

I recommend you do *NOT* set Flat until you have confirmed that the Fathom has its own protection against the lowest frequencies.
--Bob
post #41132 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoy ako View Post

. . . .

I moved my sofa backward so that mic's stand is free from any obstruction.

Thanks a lot!

I recommend you invest in a lightweight "boom arm" mic stand to replace the vertical pole stand Anthem includes with ARC. The one I like is this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400079-REG/On_Stage_MS7701B_MS7701B_Euro_Boom_Mic_Stand.html

Simply unscrew the ARC mic clip from the top of the Anthem pole stand and screw it on to the end of the boom arm instead.

The boom arm makes it easy to position the mic over a sofa seat cushion. Indeed with the vertical part raised and the boom arm tilted down you can even reach over a seat back from behind.

When extended, the legs are flat enough to slide under furniture easily. For storage, they fold in to make a compact package.

It's a great time saver in getting the mic exactly where you want it for each mic position. Typically you can make one setting of the arm height, extension and angle that works for ALL the mic positions, and then you just lift and carry the stand to each new position without having to do any other adjustment.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 7/15/13 at 8:41am
post #41133 of 42673
General Specs of Fathom F113

Enclosure Type Sealed
Enclosure Finish Black Gloss
Frequency Response (Anechoic) 20 - 86 Hz (1.5dB) -3 dB at 18 Hz / 127 Hz -10 dB at 16 Hz / 154 Hz
Effective Piston Area (Sd) 107.35 sq in / 0.0693 sq m
Effective Displacement 386 cu in / 6.3 L
Amplifier Power 2500 W RMS short-term

Will this help to know?
post #41134 of 42673
^ Nope. That doesn't answer whether the Fathom deliberately attenuates the lowest frequencies or not (low frequency protection). I.e. whether or not it has a "High Pass Filter" that kicks in down around 20Hz.
--Bob
post #41135 of 42673
I found it in JL Fathom Thread:


Originally Posted by craig john:

To measure the SPL's that your system can generate, you use an SPL meter. Then play test tones at the lowest frequencies and raise the SPL's until your can feel the pressure. (You can download individual frequency test tones here: http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm ) That will tell you if you are able to pressurize your space to the levels you desire at the frequency you desire. Caution: High SPL's at low frequencies can damage equipment. The JL subs have limiters, which should protect the subs, but use caution anyway.

Craig
Edited by pinoy ako - 7/15/13 at 9:02am
post #41136 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The original AVM 50 can not accept Bitstream input of the lossless Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA formats. It CAN accept high bit-rate, multi-channel LPCM, so all you need to do is set your new OPPO 103 to HDMI Audio LPCM and you'll be good to go.

For Bitstream input of those lossless formats you'd need the newer Anthem.

NOTE: Your AVM 50 *CAN* accept Bitstream input for the traditional lossy DD and DTS formats. My recommendation would be you just use LPCM from the OPPO 103 for everything, but there is an HDMI Audio AUTO setting in the 103 which, with your AVM 50, will send Bitstream for DD and DTS, and will automatically switch to sending LPCM for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA.

In addition to the Bitstream limitation, your AVM 50 can only accept up to 5.1 input on HDMI, and also only up to 96KHz. The newer models can accept up to 7.1 input and up to 192KHz. Your model CAN take 5.1 input and expand it to 7.1 speaker output, but it can't accept 7.1 input in the first place. The OPPO 103 will automatically adjust its output to what the AVM 50 can accept, so no worries on that score.

The audio tracks on most every movie out there are authored at 48KHz. So 48KHz from the OPPO to the AVM 50 is perfectly normal.

For video, I suggest you do just what you are doing now -- i.e., run HDMI 1 output from the OPPO to the AVM 50 and then from the AVM 50 to your 1080i display.
--Bob

Bob, thank you as always for your sage advice - I feel better!

If I can ask a follow up - when I looked at the Status when running LPCM, although as I said the audio in showed 48KHz, for Audio Out it showed 24/192 - is that because of the "7.1 expansion" you're referring to? Not that it really matters, as my system is (still) 5.1, just curious.

Thanks again!

- Mark
post #41137 of 42673
^ The output item shows what the DACs are doing when handling that audio input.
--Bob
post #41138 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ The output item shows what the DACs are doing when handling that audio input.
--Bob

Bob

That statement I don't understand. If he has a AVM50 and it only goes to 96khz and I think I remember that is the highest value you can select in the setup. How can it say the output is 24/192 ?

Stew
post #41139 of 42673
My guess? It's a bug in the old, v1.33 firmware on the original AVM 50. I.e., the displayed output rate (DAC processing) is not correct.
--Bob
post #41140 of 42673
Mr Bob, sorry for the noob question, what is the significance of the "FLAT" setting?
Also if i change the Max EQ Frequency to 10khz, i will re calculate and re upload only, right? no need to re measure?

Thanks.
Edited by pinoy ako - 7/15/13 at 11:14am
post #41141 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoy ako View Post

Mr Bob, sorry for the noob question, what is the significance of the "FLAT" setting?

You mean after all this discussion of your Sub's protection you still didn't know what Flat does to begin with? Gosh! biggrin.gif

ARC builds in a roll off of the lowest frequencies to protect Subs that need it. If your Sub doesn't measure as being good down to at least 20Hz that roll off starts earlier (at higher frequencies). You'll see that in the dashed black line Targets curve for the Subwoofer approaching the left side of its chart. If your Sub DOES measure good down that low the roll off is imposed anyway, pretty much mostly out of sight off the left side of the chart. The "FLAT" high pass filter option for the Subwoofer in the Advanced section of Targets eliminates that low frequency roll off.

For subwoofers without internal protection, this is BAD. You can damage the subwoofer if low frequencies are allowed to bottom out the cone motor.

It's even worse for subwoofers that can't function down that low to begin with, as ARC will apply boost to the low frequencies to try to compensate -- i.e., to try to get their output back up to "flat" down there. As you can imagine, this is why it is an "Advanced" option.

You should only enable Flat for the Subwoofer (Targets > Advanced) if the red Measured curve for the Sub shows it is already producing good output all the way down to 20Hz (the left edge of the chart) AND you know your Sub has its own built in protection against damage from the lowest frequencies, so it doesn't need ARC to do that protection for it.



And re Max EQ Frequency: Yes, ANY changes you make solely in the ARC Targets window do not require re-Measurement. Just Accept those changes, re-Calculate and re-Upload.

By the way, if you get confused as to what you've done in there, the Auto Detect button in Targets will restore the values ARC originally calculated for Targets based on the raw Measured data.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 7/15/13 at 11:27am
post #41142 of 42673
Now i know.!! !biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

I used now the "FLAT" settings and i really enjoy watching The Last Stand, every time the car is passing at a very high speed, my gosh! jaw dropping sound!

Thanks a lot..i will try more tweaking tomorrow....smile.gif
post #41143 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

My guess? It's a bug in the old, v1.33 firmware on the original AVM 50. I.e., the displayed output rate (DAC processing) is not correct.
--Bob

I've never been clear on this. I got confused a long time ago because I read more than one post way back in this thread that stated if the AVM 50 had factory ARC - which mine does - by virtue of the addition of the second DAC needed for that, it effectively gained increased processing power, putting it more on a par with the 50V...which is why I was unsure on whether it could decode the Dolby / DTS lossless audio.
post #41144 of 42673
^ Well I've lost track of the details regarding the original AVM 50, but I didn't think they added the 192KHz upsampling to feed the DACs as part of the ARC upgrade. All that the ARC upgrade did was replace the digital audio processors with more powerful versions.
--Bob
post #41145 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I didn't think they added the 192KHz upsampling to feed the DACs as part of the ARC upgrade.

Right, even the 50v doesn't do the upsampling.

All models since AVM-20 have 24-bit/192kHz DACs though.
post #41146 of 42673
I installed firmware 3.10 in my d2v which does not have the 3d board installed and no sound is coming from the surrounds. I have a 7.1 setup. No sound coming from the surrounds using LPCM, or if the oppo bdp 103 bitstreams DTS HD Ma and DD.
post #41147 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

I installed firmware 3.10 in my d2v which does not have the 3d board installed and no sound is coming from the surrounds. I have a 7.1 setup. No sound coming from the surrounds using LPCM, or if the oppo bdp 103 bitstreams DTS HD Ma and DD.

Thanks for the input.  there are several of us that have documented this issue.   Anthem is looking into it.  You can go back to 3.09H and it works fine on my non 3d D2v       Did you email Anthem?  if not do so to keep this on top of their list

post #41148 of 42673
I finally broke my Tekton Pendragon speakers in and thought I'd re-run ARC. I got great results but I forgot to turn off ARC for my chosen components before starting. I calculated and uploaded the results. Do I have to upload again after turning ARC off on the components or am I good to go?

Thanks,
Ken
post #41149 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensmith48 View Post

I finally broke my Tekton Pendragon speakers in and thought I'd re-run ARC. I got great results but I forgot to turn off ARC for my chosen components before starting. I calculated and uploaded the results. Do I have to upload again after turning ARC off on the components or am I good to go?

Thanks,
Ken
ARC forces appropriate settings before doing its Measurements, so no worries. I.e., its Measurements never get confused by the intrusion of any PRIOR ARC solution, including things the prior solution uploaded into Setup such as speaker volume trims and crossovers.

All you need to do after the Upload is double check that ARC is still turned on (Room EQ ON) for each Setup > Source Setup line where you want to use it. (And if the Source uses ANALOG audio input, you also need to have ANALOG-DSP set in it for ARC to function for that Source.)
--Bob
post #41150 of 42673
When I uploaded ARC I went to turn arc on for each of my components but arc was already on since I forgot to turn it off before starting. Sounds like everything is ok though. Thought I'd check with the expert.

Thanks, Bob
post #41151 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas steve View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

I installed firmware 3.10 in my d2v which does not have the 3d board installed and no sound is coming from the surrounds. I have a 7.1 setup. No sound coming from the surrounds using LPCM, or if the oppo bdp 103 bitstreams DTS HD Ma and DD.

Thanks for the input.  there are several of us that have documented this issue.   Anthem is looking into it.  You can go back to 3.09H and it works fine on my non 3d D2v       Did you email Anthem?  if not do so to keep this on top of their list

 

If i'm not mistaken, it seems to affect people with 7.1 setups. Those of us with 5.1 seem to have no problems with 3.10 (no 3d).

post #41152 of 42673
^ I thought Texas Steve had a 5.1 setup (and is seeing the problem in v3.10).
--Bob
post #41153 of 42673
^ Mr. Heardhqa did you change User IDs by chance?
post #41154 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

 

If i'm not mistaken, it seems to affect people with 7.1 setups. Those of us with 5.1 seem to have no problems with 3.10 (no 3d).

I have a 5.1 as does one other and it DOES effect it as well.  I reloaded it twice and same issue, I loaded "L" release as well, same issue (no surrounds),  Went back to 3.09H and all is as it should be.  Something was introduced into L version.


Edited by Texas steve - 7/16/13 at 7:22am
post #41155 of 42673
Had time to play with my recently purchased D2. I haven't run ARC yet since I don't have my surrounds setup. I did familiarize myself with the menu and manual though.

For Bass Management (Movies) option I selected SMALL for all the speakers (L,R,C,SL,SR) as recommended by THX. This way all the LFE gets fed to my dual 12" subs. The front main speakers can handle some bass. The subs (Dynaudio SUB500) have extremely durable drivers as well.

Should I set the front mains to LARGE?

Will it strain the mains?

Will this give more accurate phasing with the bass output?

post #41156 of 42673
You have it setup correctly. Why would you change that? Setting mains to large means your subs are only used for LFE.
post #41157 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas steve View Post

I have a 5.1 as does one other and it DOES effect it as well.  I reloaded it twice and same issue, I loaded "L" release as well, same issue (no surrounds),  Went back to 3.09H and all is as it should be.  Something was introduced into L version.

Maybe it only affects the D2v. Running L on my 50v no problem.

Here's something to try if anyone still has the buggy FW installed. When it occurs, press MODE and cycle to another mode and see if it kicks in.
post #41158 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post


Maybe it only affects the D2v. Running L on my 50v no problem.

Here's something to try if anyone still has the buggy FW installed. When it occurs, press MODE and cycle to another mode and see if it kicks in.

Thanks, yep tried that too!!

post #41159 of 42673
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Setting mains to large means your subs are only used for LFE.


You mean SMALL. Right?

If you set the speakers to LARGE they take away LFE from the subs and if set to SMALL then all the LFE goes to the subs.
post #41160 of 42673
^ I suspect you are confusing "LFE" with "bass" in general.

LFE is the special bass content delivered in the .1 channel of 5.1 and 7.1 tracks.

Every normal speaker channel is also able to carry bass as low down in frequency as you can go.

The DIFFERENCE is that the LFE channel is specially configured to carry LOUD bass.

With all speakers LARGE, only LFE goes to the subwoofer. With any speakers SMALL, LFE going to the Sub has mixed into it "steered bass" from the Small speakers in accordance with the Crossover frequency setting.

Steered Bass is extracted from each Small speaker channel and played in the Sub instead, in addition to the LFE already going to the Sub.

If you have a Sub configured, the LFE channel always, and only, plays in the Sub regardless of the Large/Small settings for the other speakers.

To answer your original question: If you have a decent Sub then I recommend you set ALL speakers SMALL (except for the unusual case of speakers that have POWERED Woofers).

Pick an appropriate Crossover and let the Sub handle the lowest bass for ALL speakers, in addition to the LFE channel.

If you have "full range" speakers I STILL recommend you set them SMALL. Just use a lower crossover like 40Hz. The Advanced option in Bass Management lets you set different Crossovers for different speakers (which is how ARC does it, too).
--Bob
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