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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1374

post #41191 of 42691
I believe your right, time for a lot of the bleeps and the sweeps!
post #41192 of 42691
If you have been thinking about making any changes to your speakers or room now is the time to do it. If you have any speakers that are not quite right, you can use Quick Measure to tweak. Or if you have been wanting to rearrange your furniture now is the time.

Don't look at is like 'Damn it, I have to run ARC again'frown.gif

Take it as an opportunity to get your set-up even better. .biggrin.gif

post #41193 of 42691
I have some questions about PBK.
I know it is a proprietary system sold with Paradigm subs, but is it usable with other brands of subs??

Does it work like ARC, where the solution is made in a pc then uploaded to the preamp/processor, or is it uploaded to a processor inside the sub?? In other words is the correction stored in the sub or the processor??

Does it tune dual subs to each other for phase and distance??

For a while between my D2 and D2v I had an Integra 80.3 that came with Audyssey xt32 and I later bought a pro-kit to use with it. The only advantage I found with Audyssey was its ability to tune dual subs. But it was a distinct advantage that ARC does not have.

Is it, or would it be possible to add PBK software to ARC and have the ability to balance dual subs??
Since the D2v, and probably other Anthem processors, have sub1 and sub2 connections is it able to send test signals to sub1 independantly from sub2 ??
If so It should be able to balance dual subs, with the proper software.

If Anthem were able to develop this, even if it meant a hardware change to wire the subs separately, it would make ARC the undisputed best room correction system available.

Just thinking out loud,

post #41194 of 42691
^ Think of PBK as a Sub-only subset of ARC. Like ARC, the solution is built in your PC, and then Uploaded into the Sub for execution during listening.

So no, it won't work with other brands of Sub, since they don't have the smarts to run the Uploaded solution.

PBK operates on one Sub at a time, so you can build an independent solution for each Sub (which is a difference with respect to ARC), but those separate solutions don't adjust for interactions between the Subs. I.E., you still need to do each Sub's Phase adjustment manually.

PBK also doesn't know anything about your other speakers. So it doesn't modify its Sub solution to work better with your Main speakers.

You can combine PBK with ARC. To do that, run PBK first on each Sub, then adjust Phase for each Sub with respect to Left Front (which includes entering all the distances), then run ARC.

ARC will hear your Subs playing in combo -- each Sub's output improved by its individual PBK solution -- and will adjust the common Sub output to them from the Anthem along with the Main speaker outputs to improve the sound from all. That ARC solution gets Uploaded into the Anthem. The PBK solutions in each Sub remain unaltered.

The key is to Measure for ARC *AFTER* you've set up PBK for each Sub separately, and adjusted the Phase of each Sub separately.

Since ARC does its own correction for the combined output of the Subs, for many people just running ARC will be enough. But PBK improves the starting point ARC hears from each Sub. PBK is like adding additional correction resources to ARC. If your Subs don't need much correction ARC alone will handle it, but adding PBK doesn't hurt. If your Subs need a lot of correction, PBK may help ARC get there. PBK is more likely to help if you have more than one Sub, since it affects each Sub individually.

The hardware doesn't support different output on the Anthem's 4 Sub jacks. So the ARC solution can only include a common solution for the combined output of the Subs.
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 7/21/13 at 9:53am
post #41195 of 42691
Thanks for the explanation.
I guess I was hoping an Audyssey type of subwoofer solution could be built into Anthem/ARC hardware and firmware.

Maybe the D3v will have the necessary hardware to allow separate sub solutions.

FWIW in my experience ARC beats Audyssey hands down. But a lot of that is due to the fact that ARC is doing room correction thru an Anthem pre/pro.
The only thing that ARC is lacking is the multiple sub correction. Maybe next time.
I guess I can always try to find another SVS AS-EQ1.

I hope Anthem is listening.

post #41196 of 42691
^ I think you may be overstating the value of separate Sub solutions.

At bass frequencies, the most important thing -- by far -- is correcting the COMBINED output of the Subs and blending that well with the bass output of each Main speaker. And of course that's exactly what ARC does.

The one chore for the user is setting Sub Phase for each Sub. Phase is a function of Distance and so setting Phase automatically is tied up with setting Distance automatically. But automated systems for doing that often introduce errors.
post #41197 of 42691
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ The current official firmware for all D2v units (with or without the 3D upgrade) is V3.09. The current ARC application software for Windows is ARC V3.0.2. Both are on the normal, public download pages on the Anthem site.

Coming from old firmware, there's a small chance the video board won't program properly. Since you are on V2.10, I think you are already past the point where you have to worry about that, but if you DO run into a problem, Anthem Tech Support can sort it out for you. The trick is to do the firmware install on a weekday, so that you can reach them easily if need be. (Tell them what version you were coming FROM.)

Video Board Programming is done in multiple small steps, so don't be alarmed if you see what looks like the video board programming starting over and over and over again. That's normal. Expect an install that requires video board programming to take about 45 minutes.

In terms of the Beta releases (from their password protected download page), V3.09j is safe. Versions after that should NOT be used as they are currently working an issues that causes the surround speakers to lose audio. Right now they've got V3.09l (that "L" as in Lucy) on there and it should NOT be used.

Thanks Bob. I will upgrade tomorrow or Tuesday, thank you. What would be the recommended procedure these days for upgrading? Disconnect all HDMI sources? HDMI outputs? On a secondary issue, I am all of a sudden noticing that my Component Out (used for years for Zone 2 output) does not seem to work with sources like my DirecTV Tivo THR-22. I cannot seem to get output in that zone all of a sudden, despite having Component video outs from the Tivo to the D2V, along with Composite, HDMI, etc. I get audio, but no video in Zone 2. I also tried my Oppo 95 bluray for Zone 2 output, and it only works with DVD sources, not with Bluray sources. I could swear this was working when I put it all together. I am using the Oppo straight from its HDMI 1 output to send video to the Main Zone 1 TV, and only HDMI audio to the D2V. But of course the Component out from the Oppo does indeed go to the D2V, so that I can watch things in the Component-based Zone 2. Again, I can get DVD sources from it to work, and the Home menu, etc., but I cannnot get a 1080p source to Zone2, even when I specify in the Video Output of the Oppo to send only 720p, or 1080i. Normally I send 1080p for Video Output, again for the benefit of Zone1, but even dumbing it down to 720p doesn't help my Component signal in Zone 2. I get no video at all. Thoughts?

Thanks again,
post #41198 of 42691
^ For the update, Save User Settings, then Reset Factory Defaults. Power down.

Remove wall power from ALL HDMI devices -- Sources and Displays.

Install the new firmware.

Reload Saved User Settings.

At this point I would also re-Upload my existing ARC solution, although that's not really necessary.

Power down and restore wall power to your HDMI devices.

Power up and scroll through Setup to see that all looks OK, then Save User Settings again to be sure you have captured whatever ARC Uploaded.

That's it.

Recheck your issues with Component after you have the new firmware in place. I suggest you try Component input to Main HDMI output first to see just what's coming in. Then try Zone 2 output.

Keep in mind that Component output will be limited from Sources when the content is copy protected.
post #41199 of 42691

Can I adjust the level calibration after ARC?

post #41200 of 42691
The level of a speaker or the level of bass in general?
post #41201 of 42691
For a particular program you can adjust speaker levels using the "temporary" level adjustment buttons near the Arrow keys. Such adjustments do not alter Setup > Level Calibration, but they ARE remembered per type of input audio format, so undo them while the same type of audio is playing so you don't screw up listening to other programs perhaps from other Sources.

If you want to make a general adjustment to bass, that should be done in ARC's Targets window. For example, raise or lower Room Gain a bit. Re-Calculate and re-Upload.

Do NOT change the Setup > Level Calibration values ARC Uploads.

To reduce bass for late night viewing Dolby Volume may help. It will let you lower main volume but still hear what's going on.
post #41202 of 42691
Thanks Mr. Bob. Got it.

Another thing, after ARC, can I adjust/alter the subwoofer volume directly from the subs volume or it is not allowed to adjust too?

Adjusting the Room Gain will be trial and error? Normally what increment do you adjust? Currently my room gain is 2.727434db
post #41203 of 42691
^ If you change the Volume knob on the Sub you will have to re-Measure for ARC and it will just counter what you've done.

What are you trying to accomplish? You may simply need some time to get used to what calibrated audio sounds like, and that some movies have badly authored audio -- e.g., way too much bass.
post #41204 of 42691
Because I feel the bass needs to be hotter, I guess.
post #41205 of 42691
That's what I thought. So "room gain" in the ARC Targets window is what you may wish to play with, as Bob suggested. Bump it up by just a small amount (try a value of 4dB) to avoid over-driving your woofers. Re-calculate and upload the new solution. No need to re-measure that way, and you won't "break" the ARC solution since you have now been instructed to stay out of the Setup > Level Calibration menu in the Anthem smile.gif
post #41206 of 42691
Thanks a lot guys, I will try all your recommendations.
post #41207 of 42691
^ Also check that Polarity & Phase are correct for your Sub. You may be getting cancellation with the bass from the main speakers.

If you have only one Sub you can do that without having to do anything else. The ARC solution will still be good, it will just sound better.

If you have more than one Sub then adjust Phase independently for each (one Sub powered at a time) and after they are all set, then re-Measure for ARC. ARC hears the combined output of the Subs, so if you alter their relative Phase you have to re-Measure.

Lastly, if you have more than one Sub, make sure the speaker configuration in the Anthem says "1 Sub" nonetheless. Otherwise the Sub Volume Trim ARC Uploads won't be applied correctly.
post #41208 of 42691
My subs were lacking punch also until I turned the rears to 180. After that, I ran ARC and have no need to bump up my subs like I used to. Multiple sub set ups are tricky. Another thing to check is the distance setting of the subs. I adjusted mine from 10 feet all the way to 20 feet ( through trial and error ) and now they sound terrific.
post #41209 of 42691
^ Setting a "false" distance is just another way to approach setting Phase.
post #41210 of 42691
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Setting a "false" distance is just another way to approach setting Phase.


That's what the AS-EQ1 does as well as the manual procedure in my sig...

post #41211 of 42691
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Setting a "false" distance is just another way to approach setting Phase.

I also adjusted my sub distance setting using a tone disc and setting the distance to get the maximum spl at the crossover that ARC chose and it sounds great. dmusoke has a good method for setting phase by changing sub distance linked to the bottom of his posts.

Am I correct in assuming that the speaker/sub distances setting can be changed after running ARC ??
I assumed since ARC measures 1 speaker at a time that it could be changed post-ARC. Might sound like a dumb question, but I just want to make sure.

post #41212 of 42691
^ Yes, speaker distances values can be altered without having to redo ARC. So long as the actual speaker positioning itself isn't changed.
post #41213 of 42691
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

That's what the AS-EQ1 does as well as the manual procedure in my sig...

Hey David !

Yes, the AS-EQ1 and Audyssey both set 'false' distances for the subs as a pair, and also sets different distances for each individual sub to compensate for phase differences between the two subs.
I found the speaker distance settings that Audyssey chose for my speakers to be spot on when checked with a tape measure, but the sub distance was always off, as it should have been to set the phase correctly.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I bet Anthem can figure out a way to do that for ARC. It really is nice not to have to do the extra fiddling around.

post #41214 of 42691
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Yes, speaker distances values can be altered without having to redo ARC. So long as the actual speaker positioning itself isn't changed.

Thanks for the reassurance, Bob
post #41215 of 42691
How do you measure the speakers and sub distance wrt LP? Are you measuring from face of the speaker, middle of the speaker or just rough distance to LP? And also, for dual subs with different location, should i average the distance between the two or should i use the farther or the nearer sub?
post #41216 of 42691
^ Center of speaker grill to ARC mic position #1 with a steel tape held taught -- bring a friend.

For the Subs enter the average of their positions.

If using Phase controls on each Sub, adjust Phase AFTER entering the distances. While you are at it, i.e., with one Sub powered at a time, also check that they are balanced for Volume. With two Subs, set each to 72dB to get a combined 75dB. Then re-Measure for ARC.
post #41217 of 42691
Thanks Mr Bob. I am not changing the phase and polarity, i just used 0 for both subs.
My subs are located just beside the speaker and equidistant to LP. See below pix. Do you think im fine using zerofor phase and polarity?

When i am checking the SPL of the subs, i cannot get the 72db, i am getting 69 71 72 73 74, it is not fix at 72. So how do you know? Should i wait for a while (1 minute) when reading the SPL?
post #41218 of 42691
^ You are probably fine for Polarity/Phase, but of course there's no way to know for sure unless you check.

Use "Slow" Response on the SPL meter and mentally average the Sub readings. They will bounce around a bit.

The precise value is not that important as ARC adjusts the combined volume trim for the Subs. Concentrate on getting the same volume from each Sub so they are contributing equally to the combined bass output.
post #41219 of 42691
Ok Thanks. I am using "slow" and "C"

Do the speaker cable length has anything to do with speaker distance settings?
post #41220 of 42691
^ No. Electrical signals travel at the speed of light. You'd need tremendously long cables (think miles) before you'd notice anything. Speaker distance adjusts for the travel time of the sound through the air from each speaker.
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