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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1378

post #41311 of 42663
A contact of mine allowed me to borrow the Antimode 2.0 dual core to test in my system. This thing can either be as simple as you like or it can be complicated as it all comes down to knowledge. As I'm just past being a novice I decided to run the Typical calibration selecting Stereo dual Subs as my setup (I was unsure what to pick here) as mono dual subs was also an option and I don't know what the Submersives are in relation to the 2 options. Anyway once this is selected the frequency sweeps begin and they are potent as the whole house just shook with the first wave and it goes through the frequencies and then displays the measured room response red curve. After this the sweeps are repeated until a black curve appears took 6 goes before it completed it's calibration. Once complete it saves the calibration and then you proceed to run ARC. Please refer to the 2 graphs using Quick Measure with Antimode on and off. The unit has a bypass button so you can disable it during the Quick Measure.

WithAntimode.JPG 71k .JPG file

WithoutAntimode.JPG 71k .JPG file

Ok after running ARC I tested using Batman-Dark Knight Rises and the difference was very noticable with the bass hitting harder and the system sounding clearer.

Here are my graphs with one being my ARC result that I performed in July 2013 and ARC that I ran tonight with the Antimode installed.

July2013Calibration.jpg 615k .jpg file

ARCwithAntimode.jpg 615k .jpg file

One thing I heard during my testing was clipping from one of my subs. It was the scene where the batwing makes it's appearance and flys over and normally I listen to this movie at -18 on the D2v and decided to put it up to -17 and this is when the clipping occured and I actually heard the driver hit metal and I saw the amber clip light appear on the back of the sub which indicates that I'm getting close to maxing out the amp. It flashes red when it's just on max output. Suffice to say the Antimode requires someone with indepth knowledge of sub freq and low/high pass filters and parametric Eq to fully appreciate and get the most from this device. There is an advanced calibration which allows more control but I haven't tried that yet. But it's an impressive device from my first impressions.
post #41312 of 42663
Which amps do you have in your Submersives, the 1k or the 2.4k?
post #41313 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by xMEATx View Post

Which amps do you have in your Submersives, the 1k or the 2.4k?
I'm in Australia so I only have the 1K 240v version for both subs. We're still waiting for the 240v HP amp.
post #41314 of 42663
Ok, I have never seen the amber clip indicator light on my 2.4k. I have wondered about the dual core and how it works.... I appreciate you sharing your experience with it.
post #41315 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonNo10 View Post

One thing I heard during my testing was clipping from one of my subs. It was the scene where the batwing makes it's appearance and flys over and normally I listen to this movie at -18 on the D2v and decided to put it up to -17 and this is when the clipping occured and I actually heard the driver hit metal and I saw the amber clip light appear on the back of the sub which indicates that I'm getting close to maxing out the amp. It flashes red when it's just on max output. Suffice to say the Antimode requires someone with indepth knowledge of sub freq and low/high pass filters and parametric Eq to fully appreciate and get the most from this device. There is an advanced calibration which allows more control but I haven't tried that yet. But it's an impressive device from my first impressions.

That is more than clipping. You take the outright chance of permanently damaging your sub driver allowing that to happen.
post #41316 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

You were supposed to set the sub level at 75db. Not where the sub manfacturer has made volume marks


So I tried using an spl meter to set my sub volume to 75db, and I started out with sub volume set at 12 o`clock and spl read around 65db, using the white noise Anthem provides in manual test mode, this is at same volume level on sub I used to get a -9.5 sub level setting using ARC. Now if I were to turn sub volume up to get 75db almost certainly ARC would set level even lower. This doesn`t sound like a good solution to me.
post #41317 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk 182 View Post

So I tried using an spl meter to set my sub volume to 75db, and I started out with sub volume set at 12 o`clock and spl read around 65db, using the white noise Anthem provides in manual test mode, this is at same volume level on sub I used to get a -9.5 sub level setting using ARC. Now if I were to turn sub volume up to get 75db almost certainly ARC would set level even lower. This doesn`t sound like a good solution to me.

Check these items

That you Did Not set your sub as Super

That you Did Not set your other speakers to Large as this adds low frequency sound from other channels to the sub

That you Did Not select 2 subs in your setup

That you are using C weighted and slow response in your SPL meter

That you Did zero the SPL before starting


Then you need to exactly perform these steps, without skipping any, these guidelines, that I changed a little for clarity and updating,that were written originally by Bob P

Prior to running the ARC measurements, there is another step to do to get the test tone volumes correct:

Using your trusty Radio Shack SPL meter (on Slow Response and C weighting), go into Setup / Speaker Calibration.

Set the volume trim for the Front Left speaker and for the subwoofer both to 0dB.

Then set Noise sequence to Manual in the first line and scroll down to the TEST LEVEL line.
Adjust the Test level until your Front Left speaker is producing roughly 75dB as measured at your dead center listening position (ARC mic position #1 -- SPL meter pointing straight up).

Leave the volume trim setting for the Front Left speaker at 0dB, only adjust the Test Level line.

ETA: CAUTION -- Due to an apparent bug, the test tone volume produced by theTest Level line is affected by the volume set in the Left Front speaker line.
So do it as stated above: Set the Left Front line to 0dB and THEN adjust the Test Level line.]

Now scroll to the Subwoofer line.

Leave that line at 0dB

Adjust the volume knob on your subwoofer until it measures roughly 75dB at the same listening position.
There is no need to be super precise in these adjustment -- a ball park setting is sufficient.

ARC will use the Test Level settings you have just made to set the volume for its own test sweep tones.
The adjustment you have just made to your subwoofer's volume knob insures that it, too, will be level adjusted properly to match.

If you happen to have any other speakers with internally powered amps (i.e., with a volume control on them) do the same for them.

Back out of the Setup menu. Run the ARC application."

Let us know how it works out after you do this Test Level setup for ARC

Stew
post #41318 of 42663
Cool I will try this. Thanks Stew!
post #41319 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ My understanding is that ARC does NOTHING DIFFERENT in building the Music and Movie solutions, or in executing those results during listening, except for stuff that you, yourself have made different -- e.g., different number of speakers during Measurement. As I've said many times the Music and Movie names are simply names of convenience for two solutions which you can use any way you want. They might just as well have been named Fred and Ethel.

In your case I presume the difference in Measured Room Gain is due to the fewer number of speakers ARC recorded for the Music Measurement pass. I.e., less data pushing the answer one way or the other. (Not including Center being probably the biggest change in what ARC hears for this.)

By the way, although I have run separate passes for Movie and Music in the past, I don't do that any more. I run the Movie pass only, then uncheck Same As in Music and disable the Center speaker AFTER Measurement. (Put "N" in the Center Cutoff value --- for No Speaker.) I build the Music solution as 4.1 (no Center). Then for listening, I have my default audio mode for stereo music content set to Stereo -- i.e., output on LF/RF/Sub only.

But if I want to light up the Surrounds, I can change that on the fly to, say, PLIIx, because the data for the Surrounds is built into the solution. In either case Center is silent because I excluded it from the solution for better front stage separation.
--Bob

I believe you, but besides setting a different room gain for movie/music configurations ARC also uploads different movie and music subwoofer speaker levels to the D2v. It consistantly sets the music subwoofer level about 1db lower than movie subwoofer level-- movie sub -1.5db / music sub -2.5db.
It would seem to me that without what little low freq that might be coming from my center (which goes down to 35hz) that ARC would need to boost the music sub to make up for missing low freq.
Also it seems by lowering the music room gain and lowering the music sub speaker level that ARC is doubling down on reducing the music sub level, as if the algorithms were designed different for movie and music.
What am I missing??
post #41320 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

That is more than clipping. You take the outright chance of permanently damaging your sub driver allowing that to happen.

It wasn't something I was attempting to do and came as a surprise as I've had the volume beyond and the same with zero problems and no clipping from either sub without the Antimode with that movie. I read the Antimode manual which mentions clipping and it says to change the input setting from High to Low but I did that and the bass was reduced at the same volume that clipped the sub. I'm not running my system anywhere near reference like some on this forum as I simply couldn't handle it personally. The only thing I changed after running ARC was changing the sub to Flat and adding 2.0 room gain as I don't get any due to room treatments. I wanted to replicate the same settings as my previous calibration in July.

As mentioned there's so much more to configure and test with the Antimode such as the Advanced Calibration which goes into Time Delay which you can set to Auto/Manual and proceed with the calibration. Not sure if setting the unit to Stereo Subs rather than Mono Dual Subs had something to do with it and setting the subs to Flat in ARC which possibly turns off the clipping warning on the Antimode which is a feature if it detects clipping and displays it on the screen on the unit. I'm very new to using this device so I might ask a friend on another forum (Australian) yes Macca you smile.gif to come over and tweak this thing and have a play. Can't do it today as I'm working from today through to next Weds then free for a week.

There will be a delay in my responses due to work but will chime in when I can. Also if anyone feels I should take this to the Antimode thread that's ok as I don't wish to derail this thread.
Edited by SimonNo10 - 8/10/13 at 2:28pm
post #41321 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

I believe you, but besides setting a different room gain for movie/music configurations ARC also uploads different movie and music subwoofer speaker levels to the D2v. It consistantly sets the music subwoofer level about 1db lower than movie subwoofer level-- movie sub -1.5db / music sub -2.5db.
It would seem to me that without what little low freq that might be coming from my center (which goes down to 35hz) that ARC would need to boost the music sub to make up for missing low freq.
Also it seems by lowering the music room gain and lowering the music sub speaker level that ARC is doubling down on reducing the music sub level, as if the algorithms were designed different for movie and music.
What am I missing??

What we are missing is Anthem not giving us all the information.

Maybe someone can clear this up for all of us.
What would be the use for a Music sub if there is little or no LFE on any music being played.
If you set the Front speakers in ARC to Large, Anthem says adds to the low freq being sent to the sub. .

BOB P

Note that Anthem says it is not necessary to remove the center speaker when playing stereo in Music.
post #41322 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Check these items

That you Did Not set your sub as Super

That you Did Not set your other speakers to Large as this adds low frequency sound from other channels to the sub

That you Did Not select 2 subs in your setup

That you are using C weighted and slow response in your SPL meter

That you Did zero the SPL before starting


Then you need to exactly perform these steps, without skipping any, these guidelines, that I changed a little for clarity and updating,that were written originally by Bob P

Prior to running the ARC measurements, there is another step to do to get the test tone volumes correct:

Using your trusty Radio Shack SPL meter (on Slow Response and C weighting), go into Setup / Speaker Calibration.

Set the volume trim for the Front Left speaker and for the subwoofer both to 0dB.

Then set Noise sequence to Manual in the first line and scroll down to the TEST LEVEL line.
Adjust the Test level until your Front Left speaker is producing roughly 75dB as measured at your dead center listening position (ARC mic position #1 -- SPL meter pointing straight up).

Leave the volume trim setting for the Front Left speaker at 0dB, only adjust the Test Level line.

ETA: CAUTION -- Due to an apparent bug, the test tone volume produced by theTest Level line is affected by the volume set in the Left Front speaker line.
So do it as stated above: Set the Left Front line to 0dB and THEN adjust the Test Level line.]

Now scroll to the Subwoofer line.

Leave that line at 0dB

Adjust the volume knob on your subwoofer until it measures roughly 75dB at the same listening position.
There is no need to be super precise in these adjustment -- a ball park setting is sufficient.

ARC will use the Test Level settings you have just made to set the volume for its own test sweep tones.
The adjustment you have just made to your subwoofer's volume knob insures that it, too, will be level adjusted properly to match.

If you happen to have any other speakers with internally powered amps (i.e., with a volume control on them) do the same for them.

Back out of the Setup menu. Run the ARC application."

Let us know how it works out after you do this Test Level setup for ARC

Stew

Even though I can`t ARC this weekend I did adjust the test level and had to bump it up to +2 and i had turn down sub volume a quarter turn to about 9 or 10 o`clock. I`m expecting very different ARC results. Hopefully this will get my system dialed into my liking. I`ll report back next weekend. Thanks thestewman
post #41323 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonNo10 View Post

It wasn't something I was attempting to do and came as a surprise as I've had the volume beyond and the same with zero problems and no clipping from either sub without the Antimode with that movie. I read the Antimode manual which mentions clipping and it says to change the input setting from High to Low but I did that and the bass was reduced at the same volume that clipped the sub. I'm not running my system anywhere near reference like some on this forum as I simply couldn't handle it personally. The only thing I changed after running ARC was changing the sub to Flat and adding 2.0 room gain as I don't get any due to room treatments. I wanted to replicate the same settings as my previous calibration in July.

As mentioned there's so much more to configure and test with the Antimode such as the Advanced Calibration which goes into Time Delay which you can set to Auto/Manual and proceed with the calibration. Not sure if setting the unit to Stereo Subs rather than Mono Dual Subs had something to do with it and setting the subs to Flat in ARC which possibly turns off the clipping warning on the Antimode which is a feature if it detects clipping and displays it on the screen on the unit. I'm very new to using this device so I might ask a friend on another forum (Australian) yes Macca you smile.gif to come over and tweak this thing and have a play. Can't do it today as I'm working from today through to next Weds then free for a week.

There will be a delay in my responses due to work but will chime in when I can. Also if anyone feels I should take this to the Antimode thread that's ok as I don't wish to derail this thread.

I wasn't being critical,. Just thought a warning was advised before you damaged the driver.

Something I don't understand is where users thing there is some magical reference level. Zero on the Anthem volume control is 0 not a magical setting.
Anthem does not use a digital volume control so trying to set it to zero because of losing some bits is not necessary.
Personally I listen at about 15 to 20 on the volume control so Ii don't ruin my hearing. My wife likes it at higher that 30.
And my speakers and amps can handle it just too loud to enjoy and not realistic to be louder than live.
Sounds like either the Antimode was over driving the system or setting ARC to flat was the cause of the driver bottoming out
post #41324 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk 182 View Post

Even though I can`t ARC this weekend I did adjust the test level and had to bump it up to +2 and i had turn down sub volume a quarter turn to about 9 or 10 o`clock. I`m expecting very different ARC results. Hopefully this will get my system dialed into my liking. I`ll report back next weekend. Thanks thestewman

Those kind of adjustments sounds like your getting it right

Stew
post #41325 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

What we are missing is Anthem not giving us all the information.

Maybe someone can clear this up for all of us.
What would be the use for a Music sub if there is little or no LFE on any music being played.
If you set the Front speakers in ARC to Large, Anthem says adds to the low freq being sent to the sub. .

BOB P

Note that Anthem says it is not necessary to remove the center speaker when playing stereo in Music.

It would be nice to know if it's Movie/Music or Fred/Ethel.
Inquiring minds want to know!!wink.gif

I also should say that both movies and music sound spectacular with ARC thru my D2v.


Tom
post #41326 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

I wasn't being critical,. Just thought a warning was advised before you damaged the driver.

Something I don't understand is where users thing there is some magical reference level. Zero on the Anthem volume control is 0 not a magical setting.
Anthem does not use a digital volume control so trying to set it to zero because of losing some bits is not necessary.
Personally I listen at about 15 to 20 on the volume control so Ii don't ruin my hearing. My wife likes it at higher that 30.
And my speakers and amps can handle it just too loud to enjoy and not realistic to be louder than live.
Sounds like either the Antimode was over driving the system or setting ARC to flat was the cause of the driver bottoming out
Sorry if I came across in a negative way and I appreciate your warning but I'm always careful with equipment settings and I'm not one of those 0 reference users I just turn the volume to the point where I enjoy the movie. This proves difficult when some discs are mastered louder than others or they bump up the LFE.

When I get time I will redo the calibration using the advanced settings and not select Flat in ARC. Thanks for you comments they are appreciated.
post #41327 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonNo10 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

I believe you made a big mistake selling your AS-EQ1 unit. The Anti-mode, as its name implies only deals with predominant room modes(peaks and valleys). The EQ1 does much more, including time/phase alignment of multiple subs. I believe its the only product on the market that does that function so far.

- David

PS
Nice subs though!smile.gif

Read this mate:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-57-page-2

He makes mention in comparing the AS-EQ1 to the Antimode and says Quote:

"As a subwoofer room equalizer, the Anti-Mode 2.0 is as potent as the SVSound AS-EQ1 ($799, now discontinued; see my September 2009 column, or its sister under the skin, Audyssey's Sub Equalizer ($799; see my January 2010 column), but provides infinitely more tweakability. The DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 may be a small and unprepossessing black box, but for $1099, its performance and power are huge"

 

Color me impressed Simonsmile.gif ... obviously I was wrong in my knowledge of the Anti-Mode.

post #41328 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Color me impressed Simonsmile.gif
... obviously I was wrong in my knowledge of the Anti-Mode.

All good mate. It's fairly new so you may have been thinking about the 8033 version. I wont get the opportunity to play more with this until next Thursday.
post #41329 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ I've got no inside track to their internal testing. But the impression I got from Nick way back when this first came up was that they HAVE tested Windows 8 and are not seeing the problem.

If that's correct then what's needed is to isolate what's different between your Windows 8 setup and theirs.

Whatever's really going on internally, I suggest you just try again with them. I.E., just assume it dropped through a crack and raise it again. Nothing gained by getting frustrated. Just squeak the wheel again.

Try phoning.

I have separately alerted Nick that there's more than one person here suffering with this.
--Bob

We can assume you do not have the inside track and until you yourself have tried it on windows 8 you really can not help with my problem. My windows 8 setup? And why would I need isolate anything? Would that be me providing good technical support?

Tried tech support, tried here, tried my rep and finally got acknowledged at tech support, now my emails direct to one at tech support are not answered. Hmm, try here again?



So now it is my two setups, will need to isolate that. rolleyes.gif

Regards
post #41330 of 42663
^^^^^

I get the same thing with my Microsoft Surface Pro and Win 8. Are you using a USB 2.0 or 3.0 port? My Surface only has a 3.0 port. Might be something to investigate.
post #41331 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieU View Post

^^^^^

I get the same thing with my Microsoft Surface Pro and Win 8. Are you using a USB 2.0 or 3.0 port? My Surface only has a 3.0 port. Might be something to investigate.

Have tried 2 and 3 same result. Appears their are more incompatibles with both com and mic on usb 3. Too noisy when you live in the middle of nowhere, sub-sound not pushed out etc. It does run through on usb3 however.

Regards
post #41332 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayne2 View Post

Tried tech support, tried here, tried my rep and finally got acknowledged at tech support, now my emails direct to one at tech support are not answered

They are just too polite to tell you, use the computer that works (for now). If that's not acceptable to you and you've reached a stalemate with e-mail you really need to call and speak to a human.

It could be something like a different version of video card driver causing the graph to appear shifted but otherwise valid. Personally I would just stick with the older computer. You don't need a fancy new computer to run ARC.
Edited by AVfile - 8/11/13 at 10:06pm
post #41333 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by porschetech View Post

I'm thinking about selling my D2 and moving up to a D2V. Would a 50v be on par or better than a D2 or should I save up my pennies for a D2V? An anthem dealer told me that the 50v would be a downgrade from a D2. Just wondering what you guys thought.

Also how much more superior is the D2v over a D2? The 8 hdmi's are attractive and so is the Dolby hd.

I've heard dealers say that before, but they were basing that on past experience with the D2 and 50 when the differences were major. Once I showed them Anthem's comparison chart of the D2/50v/D2v (posted here before, google it) they changed their tune.

The 50v got the processing power of the D2 and all the "v" improvements the D2v got, but continues to lack the upsampling DACS and some premium matched parts.

If you are running a 7.1 speaker setup the "v" upgrade in either case is more worth it for the native 7.1 support. There are also the video bypass option in models with the "3D" upgrade and updated firmware.
Edited by AVfile - 8/11/13 at 10:07pm
post #41334 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

They are just too polite to tell you, use the computer that works (for now). If that's not acceptable to you and you've reached a stalemate with e-mail you really need to call and speak to a human.

It could be something like a different version of video card driver causing the graph to appear shifted but otherwise valid. Personally I would just stick with the older computer. You don't need a fancy new computer to run ARC.

Talked to my rep (human), have been placed in touch with one tech, and it has gone to engineering. Can't do anything for me till it is fixed, but no one is stepping up to let me know it is reproducible or if they are working on it. Not like we have a lot to say about this box, it is simply, it works and sounds good. Would not even be posting here if I got a couple of simple answers.

Too polite to let people know if it is reproducible and if we can expect a fix? I would not use that word, but so be it. You would think they would let people know so they can dust off their old computer when they need to run ARC. Some of us own this box and stream media from a fancy computer. There is more wiring to it then any other component and now with my new asus muse i am running xlr. It is not all about plugging in a computer and running one app for some. Some game, foobar, MPC-HC etc.

Graphic card drivers are not causing a usb problem when you boot into one os and use the same version of drivers. We would say it is the OS. I have ran both NVidia and ati with similar results. May be M$ changed something with the usb interface and a small program to recalibrate our cal files may be the answer? Download it, run, select your file and let it transform/mod it. I believe there is a difference in sound right now and it is not a visual thing.

You are right and I should keep hammering anthem. That is why we post here.

Regards
post #41335 of 42663
It bothers me too, but when I've been through similar situations and told them "it works one way but not the other" in my mind it is just a workaround but to an employee in Tech Support it is a solution. I don't agree with that but their job is to get you up and running, by hook or by crook, and relay any remaining issues to engineering. Unfortunately the buck usually stops there, especially this time of year. We all take vacations and have more time to play with our gear and post here but Anthem has vacations too (at least that is the excuse I'm sure you will hear).
post #41336 of 42663
It has been into engineer since March of this year. Must have chosen the wrong engineering profession for sure biggrin.gif. This, for me, is the most important future proofing requirement for this box, including all the rest mentioned here, since ARC is a computer software solution requiring a windows operating system. There is no workaround at this stage that I am aware of other than a dual boot operating system with the second boot to run just one application. Bit excessive and time consuming to say the least, that is if you have the system and knowledge to do this, and know that a problem may exist. I am up and running, all I am looking for is if they have reproduced it and if so are they working on it. 3D direct pass through is not as important as ARC on future OS's to me.

Regards
post #41337 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

I've heard dealers say that before, but they were basing that on past experience with the D2 and 50 when the differences were major. Once I showed them Anthem's comparison chart of the D2/50v/D2v (posted here before, google it) they changed their tune.

The 50v got the processing power of the D2 and all the "v" improvements the D2v got, but continues to lack the upsampling DACS and some premium matched parts.

If you are running a 7.1 speaker setup the "v" upgrade in either case is more worth it for the native 7.1 support. There are also the video bypass option in models with the "3D" upgrade and updated firmware.

Thanks for the extra info. Kinda kicking myself now. Saw a 50v on eBay last week for $1200. I was going back and forth about it. I decided to pull the trigger.....too late. It sold very quickly!!!
post #41338 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by porschetech View Post

Thanks for the extra info. Kinda kicking myself now. Saw a 50v on eBay last week for $1200. I was going back and forth about it. I decided to pull the trigger.....too late. It sold very quickly!!!

For $1200 - the 50v must have been for parts
post #41339 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

For $1200 - the 50 must have been for parts

hahahaha.......thats what scaredme off, but it sure went quick 1-2 hrs max!
post #41340 of 42663
Quote:
Originally Posted by porschetech View Post

hahahaha.......thats what scaredme off, but it sure went quick 1-2 hrs max!

Feel sorry for the Buyer - he might have got scamed
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