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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1386

post #41551 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWithAPlan View Post

I guess one question would be if it will degrade the signal from the Oppo at all for main viewing, its primary duty...keep in mind there will be 1080p/24 signals and 3D movies etc being played by the Oppo through that splitter if I were to use it. Does this little device pass on the 3D and other 1080p without issue? If not, there's no way I would use it. In general, I like to keep as pure a signal path as possible between components. Let me know when you get a second.

Thanks.
-Brian

I use it on a secondary system (not with my D2), but I do not notice any degradation at all. It is supposed to pass through 3D signals and handles 1080P fine (if you Google it, you will see others report on their experiences with it - it seems to be pretty well known cure for HDCP problems).

I think the biggest plus is that it is $23.99 at a certain large internet retailer, so the risk that it does not do what you want is pretty small relative to the time you may have to spend to cure the problem.
post #41552 of 42679

yep a huge difference on top end.   so, can you tell a difference in sound?   And how does one qualify for a new mic?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASW View Post


So I got my new mic today, and things are MUCH better. Attached are my ARC files with both mics. . Without a doubt, there was something up with my old mic. Thanks Anthem for a quick replacement.

ARC Graphs.pdf is the old mic and 9-5 ARC is the new mic.


Arc graphs.pdf 146k .pdf file
9-5 Arc.pdf 147k .pdf file
post #41553 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManWithAPlan View Post

I guess one question would be if it will degrade the signal from the Oppo at all for main viewing, its primary duty...keep in mind there will be 1080p/24 signals and 3D movies etc being played by the Oppo through that splitter if I were to use it. Does this little device pass on the 3D and other 1080p without issue? If not, there's no way I would use it. In general, I like to keep as pure a signal path as possible between components. Let me know when you get a second.

Thanks.
-Brian

Mind if I butt in here Brian ?

The connection would be made this way.

Anthem HDMI 2 OUT to the ViewHD or your Gefen Detective then to the Xenarc HDMI input

There would be nothing to disturb your OPPO..to Anthem and then to your big display or other input sources
post #41554 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas steve View Post


I have not spent much time listening to the new setup just yet, so I don't know how much real life impact there is. Anthem sent me a new mic after I emailed them re my prior complaint about the dip at 3khz and higher and told them about good results people on this forum had after getting a new mic. They were pretty good about it.
post #41555 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Mind if I butt in here Brian ?

The connection would be made this way.

Anthem HDMI 2 OUT to the ViewHD or your Gefen Detective then to the Xenarc HDMI input

There would be nothing to disturb your OPPO..to Anthem and then to your big display or other input sources

I guess it will depend where the problem is. If stripping out HDCP between the Xenarc and the Anthem cures the issue, then that would be a great result. I agree that is where I would start.

Also, if signal degradation is a real concern with the ViewHD splitter, there is a supposedly better quality (and much more expensive) solution offered by a company called HDFury.

Alan
post #41556 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASW View Post


I have not spent much time listening to the new setup just yet, so I don't know how much real life impact there is. Anthem sent me a new mic after I emailed them re my prior complaint about the dip at 3khz and higher and told them about good results people on this forum had after getting a new mic. They were pretty good about it.

 

Thanks - let us know if you can hear a difference.

post #41557 of 42679
Quick ARC question

What happens when you select Full range crossover?
post #41558 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASW View Post

I guess it will depend where the problem is. If stripping out HDCP between the Xenarc and the Anthem cures the issue, then that would be a great result. I agree that is where I would start.

Also, if signal degradation is a real concern with the ViewHD splitter, there is a supposedly better quality (and much more expensive) solution offered by a company called HDFury.

Alan

All good points.
There has been no negative reports on the ViewHD and what could it do to the signal going to a 7 inch rack monitor at 640X 480 ? Nothing.

The 7 inch Xenarc monitor's specs

Xenarc

Screen Size: Diagonal 7" (16:9)
Physical Resolution: 800 (H) x 480 (V) WVGA
Supported Resolution: 640 x 480 ~ 1600 x 1200
Dot Resolution: 2400 x 480 = 1,152,000 (dots)
LCD Brightness: 500 cd/m²
Contrast Ratio: 400:1
post #41559 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

All good points.
There has been no negative reports on the ViewHD and what could it do to the signal going to a 7 inch rack monitor at 640X 480 ? Nothing.

The 7 inch Xenarc monitor's specs

Xenarc

Screen Size: Diagonal 7" (16:9)
Physical Resolution: 800 (H) x 480 (V) WVGA
Supported Resolution: 640 x 480 ~ 1600 x 1200
Dot Resolution: 2400 x 480 = 1,152,000 (dots)
LCD Brightness: 500 cd/m²
Contrast Ratio: 400:1

I agree that the ViewHD would be more than fine if putting it between the D2 and the Xenarc works. I meant to suggest the HDFury (or their Dr. HDMI) if something had to go between the Oppo and the D2 and signal degradation was a real concern.

For what it is worth, I do not notice any issue with the ViewHD, but it is being used to feed a Tivo into a 26" TV and a Slingbox, so I am not sure I would unless it was really bad.
post #41560 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASW View Post

I agree that the ViewHD would be more than fine if putting it between the D2 and the Xenarc works. I meant to suggest the HDFury (or their Dr. HDMI) if something had to go between the Oppo and the D2 and signal degradation was a real concern.

For what it is worth, I do not notice any issue with the ViewHD, but it is being used to feed a Tivo into a 26" TV and a Slingbox, so I am not sure I would unless it was really bad.

It's Brian's decision now to make.
He says he has a HDMI Detective stored away. It does not strip away DHCP but stores the correct EDID for the display
He should try that first. If he is using the 7" display as a tv monitor he is probably supporting 640 X480.
Not much you could do to that resolution to make it worse.
post #41561 of 42679
Have been struggling alot with D2v to get the bass response "correct".

I can adjust and tune a multisub setup to have good reasonably flat curve between 20Hz to 100Hz. This has been measured with a couple of different mic's and REW.
Then when running ARC, ARC shows a bass response that is about 5dB higher at 20Hz to 50Hz (than between 50Hz to 100Hz) so the result of the ARC is FR curve that is damped in the lowest bass, so 20-30Hz is at least 5dB lower than around 80Hz.
This messes up all the good adjustment and tuning I had done before running ARC. Sure I can adjust the FR from the subs after running ARC but that needs to be done then after every time I run ARC, so that's not a possibility. To much work.

I wish I could just run ARC from 100Hz up to 5kHz, since I can create a very good bass curve on my own.
Any advice? could it be a bad ARC mic? getting the response too high at the lowest freq.
post #41562 of 42679
Hi
I have a samson 2500w amp, i want to use it for my bass bins, but now you can hear he mids aswell, it doesnt have a setting at the back, just the normal BRIDGED & PARALEL setting.
I have a 2000w Behringer aswell, it has got that place at the back from 1 - 10 where you can choose (On - Off) but i dont know what number must be on or off to put the amp to just bass mode
post #41563 of 42679
Hi
I have a samson 2500w amp, i want to use it for my bass bins, but now you can hear he mids aswell, it doesnt have a setting at the back, just the normal BRIDGED & PARALEL setting.
I have a 2000w Behringer aswell, it has got that place at the back from 1 - 10 where you can choose (On - Off) but i dont know what number must be on or off to put the amp to just bass mode
post #41564 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post

Have been struggling alot with D2v to get the bass response "correct".

I can adjust and tune a multisub setup to have good reasonably flat curve between 20Hz to 100Hz. This has been measured with a couple of different mic's and REW.
Then when running ARC, ARC shows a bass response that is about 5dB higher at 20Hz to 50Hz (than between 50Hz to 100Hz) so the result of the ARC is FR curve that is damped in the lowest bass, so 20-30Hz is at least 5dB lower than around 80Hz.
This messes up all the good adjustment and tuning I had done before running ARC. Sure I can adjust the FR from the subs after running ARC but that needs to be done then after every time I run ARC, so that's not a possibility. To much work.

I wish I could just run ARC from 100Hz up to 5kHz, since I can create a very good bass curve on my own.
Any advice? could it be a bad ARC mic? getting the response too high at the lowest freq.

I think if you research Flat Frequency response for bass you will find there is no ideal Flat freq curve. Most research says a flat response does not sound the best.
They usually call for a slight bass boost and a drop in the upper regions. Apparently this is what ARC is attempting and is correct.
Most important in setting multiple bass units is the phasing and polarity of the units.
You might look up the Audyssey paper that talks about FLAT vs the Audyssey Curve.
Ultimately the best curve is the one that sounds the best to you
post #41565 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie007 View Post

Hi
I have a samson 2500w amp, i want to use it for my bass bins, but now you can hear he mids aswell, it doesnt have a setting at the back, just the normal BRIDGED & PARALEL setting.
I have a 2000w Behringer aswell, it has got that place at the back from 1 - 10 where you can choose (On - Off) but i dont know what number must be on or off to put the amp to just bass mode

Willie007

Welcome to AVS and our forum
Not familiar with either of your amps but are you using a Anthem D2, D2v, AVM 50 etc ?
If so, you should be feeding your bass amps with only the LFE output from the Pre pro.
Maybe give us some more information on your setup
post #41566 of 42679
...question re: positioning of ARC

I have Magnepan speakers in front: the left and right are Mag 12s that are positioned aprox. from 8" off the floor rising to aprox. 5 ft (the tweeters run vertically from top to bottom); the center is positioned above the Samsung 61"; the two surrounds (Sunfire) are positioned aprox. 5 ft. from the floor with the one rear positioned aprox. 6" from the floor.

I ran the ARC program as instructed in the manual but I am not sure that I like the results. Would the positions of my speakers possibly need the mic to be positioned higher than my ear hight at the seating position?...(hope this makes sense)...

...thanks, in advance
post #41567 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Weinman View Post

...question re: positioning of ARC

I have Magnepan speakers in front: the left and right are Mag 12s that are positioned aprox. from 8" off the floor rising to aprox. 5 ft (the tweeters run vertically from top to bottom); the center is positioned above the Samsung 61"; the two surrounds (Sunfire) are positioned aprox. 5 ft. from the floor with the one rear positioned aprox. 6" from the floor.

I ran the ARC program as instructed in the manual but I am not sure that I like the results. Would the positions of my speakers possibly need the mic to be positioned higher than my ear hight at the seating position?...(hope this makes sense)...

...thanks, in advance

I'll ultimately defer to the more seasoned ARC experts, but your Maggies have a quasi-ribbon tweeter that runs along the side of the speaker. As such, there's no specific dead-spot location of the tweeter itself. I understand what you're referring to—there's no one "spot" for the tweeter because of the quasi-ribbon vertical design.

Now I've auditioned and had larger experience with the 1.7's as opposed to the 12's just to be clear. But the point of ARC is what the room interactions are like at the listening position--not a foot or half a foot above it. If you don't like the results, it may have more of an issue with the way ARC is interacting with the cabinet-less design, meaning the bipole effect of the Maggies. While that's one of the beautiful things that adds depth and breadth to the soundstage, I've often wondered what the effect on that would be in a room-correction scenario vs. the traditional dynamic speakers. I would suggest also pinging Anthem support about any special tweaks with Maggies in general. So, my point after all that rambling is my hunch would be it's more the dipole effect than the height of the ARC microphone.

One other important question: How far are your Maggies from the rear walls? If they are fairly close to the rear walls, that too may have an impact in addition to the bipole effect.

Finally, I'm sure you've done this, but there is a correct and incorrect placement of the ribbon/tweeter side of the maggies for left and right. Double-check you don't have them inverted.
post #41568 of 42679
THXTheater,

...thanks for your reply...the positions of the Maggies are correct and I have also installed sound pads behind them (as well as the center speaker)...and, yes, the ribbon/tweeter sides are correctly on the respective outer sides...

...what concerns me appears to be excessive base...

...as you suggest, I will contact Anthem support...

thanks, again
post #41569 of 42679
The ARC mic should be positioned at seated ear height so that it hears what the ears hear. Point it straight up.

If the axis for treble from your speakers is above that, consider tipping them down (vertical pointing). If that's not feasible then the ARC mic STILL needs to hear what the ears hear.
--Bob
post #41570 of 42679
...thanks, Bob.

...I think I'll try living with the ARC results for a while...
post #41571 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post

Have been struggling alot with D2v to get the bass response "correct".

I can adjust and tune a multisub setup to have good reasonably flat curve between 20Hz to 100Hz. This has been measured with a couple of different mic's and REW.
Then when running ARC, ARC shows a bass response that is about 5dB higher at 20Hz to 50Hz (than between 50Hz to 100Hz) so the result of the ARC is FR curve that is damped in the lowest bass, so 20-30Hz is at least 5dB lower than around 80Hz.
This messes up all the good adjustment and tuning I had done before running ARC. Sure I can adjust the FR from the subs after running ARC but that needs to be done then after every time I run ARC, so that's not a possibility. To much work.

I wish I could just run ARC from 100Hz up to 5kHz, since I can create a very good bass curve on my own.
Any advice? could it be a bad ARC mic? getting the response too high at the lowest freq.

What's the Room Gain?

Cheers
post #41572 of 42679
Ed,
I just noticed your concern was with excessive bass. It may simply be that you need to get used to what calibrated bass sounds like, but another possibility is that ARC got confused by your room and decided to retain more Room Gain than is needed.

I don't recall your charts and Targets window, but you could try experimenting with a dB or 2 less Room Gain. (Open your existing ARC solution, make the change in Targets, accept that change, re-Calculate, and re-Upload -- no need to re-Measure.)

If your charts show bass peaks that ARC was not able to fully tame, then some repositioning of your speakers/Sub could be in order. The Quick Measure tool in ARC is useful for that.

Also, if you have more than one Subwoofer, make sure your Anthem is set to "1 Sub" anyway. ARC assumes that setting when it calculates the Sub volume trim to Upload.

One last item is to make sure you don't have anything complicated going on in your wiring. The Sub should be fed directly from the Anthem. There should be no wires going between the Sub and the main speakers.

And finally, just to eliminate the obvious. Make sure you have Room EQ set to ON in Setup > Source Setup for each Source, as that's what enables ARC for that Source. And if you are using Analog audio input from any Source you must also use ANALOG-DSP, not ANALOG-DIRECT, to enable ARC.
--Bob
post #41573 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post

Have been struggling alot with D2v to get the bass response "correct".

I can adjust and tune a multisub setup to have good reasonably flat curve between 20Hz to 100Hz. This has been measured with a couple of different mic's and REW.
Then when running ARC, ARC shows a bass response that is about 5dB higher at 20Hz to 50Hz (than between 50Hz to 100Hz) so the result of the ARC is FR curve that is damped in the lowest bass, so 20-30Hz is at least 5dB lower than around 80Hz.
This messes up all the good adjustment and tuning I had done before running ARC. Sure I can adjust the FR from the subs after running ARC but that needs to be done then after every time I run ARC, so that's not a possibility. To much work.

I wish I could just run ARC from 100Hz up to 5kHz, since I can create a very good bass curve on my own.
Any advice? could it be a bad ARC mic? getting the response too high at the lowest freq.

ARC's charts are an unweighted average of the set of mic positions for each speaker. It sounds like ARC is picking up some Boundary Gain, perhaps at just a couple of the mic positions. Your REW mic might not be picking that up unless you move it around to check how the bass is coupling in various portions of the listening area. (In doing its calculations, ARC uses ALL the mic data, not just the average shown on the charts.)

To check this, use the Quick Measure tool, and move the mic to each of your chosen locations to see how that low frequency response is varying.
--Bob
post #41574 of 42679
...o.k., Bob

...will do
post #41575 of 42679
^

Maggies are a bipolar speaker with the tweeters acting as a line source so there is no beaming of the frequencies.
So adjustment of the ARC mic from the LP should not be necessary.
Being bipolar you do want the rear reflections.
post #41576 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Weinman View Post

THXTheater,

...thanks for your reply...the positions of the Maggies are correct and I have also installed sound pads behind them (as well as the center speaker)...and, yes, the ribbon/tweeter sides are correctly on the respective outer sides...

...what concerns me appears to be excessive base...

...as you suggest, I will contact Anthem support...

thanks, again

Ed ,

The Maggie 12s only go down to about 45hz or so if I recall. Do you have subs in the mix on this setup?
post #41577 of 42679
ThxTheater,

...nope...just 6.0 set-up (the two surround and one back are Sunfire's)
post #41578 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Weinman View Post

ThxTheater,

...nope...just 6.0 set-up (the two surround and one back are Sunfire's)

I was looking (quickly I admit) for your graphs. Did you post them?
post #41579 of 42679
Thxtheater,

...sorry...no (simply because I don't know how to post)...

...as an aside, what will happen to the Anthem D2v re: 4k...
Edited by Ed Weinman - 9/9/13 at 9:53pm
post #41580 of 42679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

ARC's charts are an unweighted average of the set of mic positions for each speaker. It sounds like ARC is picking up some Boundary Gain, perhaps at just a couple of the mic positions. Your REW mic might not be picking that up unless you move it around to check how the bass is coupling in various portions of the listening area. (In doing its calculations, ARC uses ALL the mic data, not just the average shown on the charts.)

To check this, use the Quick Measure tool, and move the mic to each of your chosen locations to see how that low frequency response is varying.
--Bob

You are correct, tested this before I saw this post, and the ARC "strange" results seems to come from the averaging of the 5 mic positions. I tested measuring all 5 measurements in the sweet spot, and the bass response is much better now. I know this is not recommended, and I have not evaluated the result at higher frequencies with this kind of measurement. I will listen to it for a while, and will do some measurments at higher freq. to see how it differs from a normal 5 mic pos. method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

What's the Room Gain?

Cheers

Room Gain typically around 1.
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