Monitor Audio Owners Thread - Page 56

kk thats y i put the star and not the whole word. any...

i thought maybe my question got lost in all this crazyness....

I have to admit that I am a bit of a gear-head when it comes to audio. I take great interest in reading the graphs and measurements on various components to see how they objectively stack up, especially for speakers that I have either auditioned or owned over the years. It is fun to see how the measurements correlate with what I hear. I have looked at the frequency response graphs for more speakers than I can count, but recently I've been taking more interest in Cumulative Spectral Decay plots (waterfall plots). These 3D graphs show both how fast the midrange and tweeter drivers are able to stop after a signal burst is feed to them and if there are any resonances in the drivers. Subjectively, the performance measured here is supposed to correlate with how clean, detailed and uncolored the sound of the driver should be.

MA owners should be very proud to know that the RS and GS lines have the best CSD plots I have seen in the dozens of measurements I have reviewed. Better than even some very expensive, popular, and generally well-regarded speakers.

Here's a speaker that retails for $12K a pair. You may know them -- they feature a diamond tweeter.



Relatively speaking, the performance is quite good in the treble really, with just a little bit of low-level hash in the mid and lower treble. But you will notice that starting at around 2kHz and moving down into the midrange there is quite a bit of delayed energy.

The Stereophile technician that took the measurement had this to say about their objective performance:


Now take a look at the plot for the MA GS10:



This is just remarkable performance. No hash, virtually no delayed energy in the treble, and substantially less delayed energy in the midrange. (BTW - ignore the ridge just above 10kHz, this is due to a reflection off of the measuring equipment.) So if the $12K speakers have "world class" performance, then how do we classify the performance of the GS line?

Now I know some will look at the tweeter's resonance peak in the graph (at roughly 27kHz) and say that is a problem, but I just had my hearing tested along with several audiophile friends of mine and none of us can hear much above 16kHz. And besides there is no musical energy to speak of at 27kHz. Not even much in the way of low-level harmonics. So subjectively, it is highly unlikely that the average listener will hear that resonance at all.

I know you can't judge the performance of a speaker on measurements alone. However, in this case, it has been my experience and several others that have heard the MA speakers, that they are in fact some of the cleanest and least colored sounding speakers around, at any price. This correlates nicely with their CSD measurements. In fact, it was the clean and uncolored sound of the MA GS line that got me looking into "why" they sounded so good.

Hope you all find this as interesting as I do.

Cheers!

I'd try between 70-90Hz for the LCR, and between 60-80Hz for the GS60's. The final decision will be in the listening. Which setting sounds like the blend between the speakers and the sub is the most seamless? Which setting gives the best upperbass kick?

Cheers.

Damn, I auditioned Triangle Celius speakers earlier this week and was going to lay a deposit down but the dealer told me he was getting in some MA Golds soon. I decided to wait and give them a listening to.

You just reaffirmed my decision to wait along with AudioArchitect. Thanks for the work dude.

frockc, please report back with some impressions of the GS60s once you get them dialed in. They are the speakers I am looking to go with for the living room soon. Thank you

hey im looking for maybe a VERY cheap sub woofer, that is decent, to go with my monitor audio 8i's in the front and the 3i's in the back and probably the rslcr for the middle. again im looking for something cheap and then cheaper when i can get it on ebay, and my room is a 15by18 with a slanted roof, that startes out high and then becomes about 10 feet. the floor is tile,but i have put a rug in the room , but the speakers are on the tile.

How much is cheap? That is a pretty decent sized room IMO.

Yes, to me that is one of the more salient characteristics of the monitor audio speakers - the cleanliness and lack of hash in the sound. Also, I find the sense of instrumental timbre in the monitor audio speakers superb. A lot of metal-driver speakers used to produce a sort of sterile, "bleached" sound to my ears. But the Monitor Audio speakers don't - they sound quite beautiful with loads of convincing timbral color.

As it happens I also find the Monitor Audio speakers in general a bit "toppy" and forward. The very clean, smooth response of the drivers seems to help reduce what could have been a more fatiguing, forward response in the sound.

But I do tend to prefer a bit more relaxed presentation. My personal solution was to pick up some older Hales Transcendence loudspeakers. Paul Hales was a master of wringing smooth, non-fatiguing yet timbrally convincing sound from metal drivers. So with the Hales I get a good helping of what I like from the Monitor Audio speakers, but with the type of sonic balance I prefer. You can see in the graphs from this older Stereophile review that the Hales are, like the MAs, quite clean in the water-fall plot.

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloud...es/index4.html

And if you compare the frequency response curves you can see the difference in "forwardness" in the MA graph vs more laid-back Hales graph.

the max msrp price i want is 300dollars that way i can get it cheaper on ebay.

thats y we got the 8i's it has very good bass in my opinion and produces a thump in the room.

$300 is not much but how about this: http://hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html

Hsu is well regarded here and I owned the STF-2 and liked it a lot. Maybe check out some Rocket (Onix) too.

would a sub really help my system? my parents arent a very big fan of the boom, boom. so i only would get a sub if it would create a better overall sound envronment.

i have 8i front
3i rear
rslcr center(hopefully soon)
witha str-da1es sony reciver which i dont think is good.

Subs help by relieving the front channels of bass duties. This allows them to reproduce the mids and highs rather than the whole audio range.

How do you like the system now? If it sounds good to you then stick with it. Also a sub is very important with surround sound as it will handle the low frequency effects in movies. Personally I like my RS6 set up alone without a sub, but will probably add one later on when I move out.

it seems as though right now i dont need a sub, but i do need a center channel. later maybe in like a year or so i might think about getting a sub.

also does the quality of the reciever matter on the sound quality.

is the str-da1es good?

hifi,

Little bit of a gear head, doesn't cover it.

frockc,

Those figures from HF seem to be the about same for me.


Last night I had somebody from Magnolia bring me over a new Pioneer VSX-91TXH to go in a small room that I just put a 42" Pioneer Plasma in. It's running two RS6's, and the RSLCR. I removed the sub because it sounds just fine for the little room (10X10) without it.

The sub (RELB3) had been used with the MFA5 Int/A5 CD player and the SF Auditors. Using the same MF gear on the MA Platinum 100's i'm not in need of the sub, at the moment .

Later today we take the whole HT room and put it in another room and move the bigger two channel stuff out (MA Platinum 300's/MCIntosh). I want more room for my music, but i'm going to have to go 5.1 instead of 7.1 for the time being for HT. But, four 60's should be enough for that room. I'm to old for this moving crap.

i just re installed the two brand new woofers and they work,

do these again need a break in period to produce better base and sound.

do you own GS-60's yourself? If so what are you using to power them (receiver or amp/pre-amp brand model)?

I have a set of GSLCR's at the moment and have the GS60's on order. They should be here within a couple of weeks.

But my recommendation for setting the crossover frequency is based on my knowledge of setting x-overs in general, not direct experience with the GS60's. Setting the x-over at 80Hz is the norm, even for floorstanders, because it is the highest frequency known to still limit localization of the sub, while taking considerable strain off of the mains. However, some prefer a slightly lower x-over, of say 60Hz, because it sounds better in their room. There are so many factors involved (the quality of the sub, the in-room reponse of both the sub and the mains, whether you listen mainly to music or movies, etc), that there is no general answer that will work for everyone. That is why I gave you a range to try out. That range will get you in the ballpark, and you just need to listen to make the final determination.

I currently have the Denon 4306 to power the GS system, but will be replacing that either with a Denon 5308 or Primare seperates by the end of the year.

With a call out of "Monitor Audio Fan" below your user name, you certainly can't go with the Triangles!

Well, OK you can if you really like them, but you are right, you should at least listen to the GS's before making a decision.

Yeah the Triangles were very transparent. They lacked in the bass though even compared to my RS6s. The dealer said it was probably due to the Macintosh tube intergrated. The Celius were not bright or fatiguing though.

I just really want to hear the GS60s since I like the MA sound a lot. Very balanced top to bottom to my ears with a deep soundstage.

EDIT: hifisponge, what finish did you get your GS60s in again?

I haven't had much experience listening to many speakers other than the MA that feature all metal drivers, but I have heard some speakers with that "bleached", and what I would consider "dry" and "analytical" sound. Many of the Focal speakers I auditioned a few years back sounded that way to me. But that is what I admire about the MA GS's. They just sound very clean and transparent without taking on the negative traits that can sometimes accompany those qualities.

I would agree that the GS's do have a somewhat emphasized mid to upper treble, but I prefer that balance as long as it doesn't cross the line into aggressiveness, and as long as the treble is smooth, not peaky. For those recordings that are already bright, I have no problem using the tone control to temporarily balance the sound.

Another thing to consider is that while the on-axis treble of the GS's is tipped up, the response in the treble rolls-off pretty rapidly above 10kHz, resulting in a power response that is commendably flat.

It may be that our definitions of "forward" differ though. To me, a forward sounding speaker is the result of an emphasis in the upper-mids and lower treble. The GS's sound neutral to me in this range. I like a detailed, but not forward sound, which I find the GS's give me.

However, I completely understand your preference for a more relaxed sound, and it certainly seems that someone looking for an alternative to the MA GS's should consider the speakers you ultimately chose. Next to the MA's, the Hales's are the first I have seen to have a decay plot that is just as clean.

I considered some Triagles a few years back, but there were no dealers locally, and I was scared off by many reviews that said they sounded too bright. But that was a few years ago, and I have heard that the new models have more balanced sound. Certainly report back on what you ultimately choose.

I have the GS60's on order in gloss black. I almost went with the Walnut, but we already have numerous pieces of furniture in my HT room with that finish and I wanted the speakers to stand out. Unlike some, who want their speakers to "disappear" in the room, I like to show mine off.

I will let you know but I have this feeling I will be grabbing the Monitor Audios. I will give the Triangles a fair shot though. My girl loved the look of the Triangles but then again she likes my MAs.

Good luck with the GS60s

BTW - I doubt that it was the amp that was causing a lack of bass in the Triangles. More likely it was a character of the speaker, the room, or the location of that speaker in the room. If you go back to listen to them again, see if they can move them closer to the back wall to boost the bass a bit. Also try moving your listening position forward and back a bit. You may have been sitting in a null.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the upper bass on the GS's is not likely to sound as pronounced as the RS's you have now. The RS's have a rise in the bass, whereas the GS's are flat. You can accentuate the bass of the GS's though by moving them closer to the walls behind and to the side of them.

The bass had no impact or slam. No dynamics at all. They were about 3' from the back wall and close to the same from the sides. Very much like my speakers are set up now.

You really make me want to try the Golds. I cannot wait. Probably power them via Halo or a Rotel amp. Should be decent.

so...

give them maybe 100 hours at moderate volume to loose the surrounds a bit.

and go listen to your speakers dude.

hifi,

Glad you said you are ordering black, I just dumped a pair of GS60's for a good price in Rosewood. PM me about what you are looking at in regards to Primare.

i was wondering is there a very notible differance in the rslcr compared to the gslcr for ht, because there is a huge differance between the rslcr and the bronze lcr(brlcr)?