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Monitor Audio Owners Thread - Page 105

post #3121 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles4 View Post

I have a similar setup and second WCD opinion, after taking the picture below I moved my left and right speakers forward to be on the same plane as the center channel speaker.

Attachment 106391

Actually, the optimal positioning for the L/R speakers is typically slightly *ahead* of the plane of the center speaker. The goal is to have all speakers equidistant from the listening position. So if you form an equilateral triangle between your seat and the L/R speakers, *and* you place the center speaker even with the face of the L/R speakers, the center will now be closer to you than the L/R speakers.




The distances between P1, P2, and P3 are all equal. But the distance between P3 (the listening position) and D (the center speaker) is shorter. The center speaker should be placed at the hash mark between points D and B to make it equidistant from point P3.

Class dismissed.
post #3122 of 10043
Or you can just measure the distance from LP to the speaker with a tape ruler and input it in your receiver processor and let the processor figure out the Geometry!
post #3123 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Actually, the optimal positioning for the L/R speakers is typically slightly *ahead* of the plane of the center speaker. The goal is to have all speakers equidistant from the listening position. So if you form an equilateral triangle between your seat and the L/R speakers, *and* you place the center speaker even with the face of the L/R speakers, the center will now be closer to you than the L/R speakers

very interesting, I will keep this in mind.

I understand the concept here, however the reality is most can only go so far forward (beyond the center speaker line) with the left and right speakers so you can never achieve "equi-distance". Essentially you end up with a "semi-circle" arrangement, which is difficult to achieve in probably 98% of most system/room arrangements. But I'm going to experiment since I have my speakers a good distance from the back wall (like 23in to rear speaker surface), I can push my center cabinet backwards towards the wall 5 or 6 inches.

Thanks for your input (and diagram) Tim.............
post #3124 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

very interesting, I will keep this in mind.

I understand the concept here, however the reality is most can only go so far forward (beyond the center speaker line) with the left and right speakers so you can never achieve "equi-distance". Essentially you end up with a "semi-circle" arrangement, which is difficult to achieve in probably 98% of most system/room arrangements. But I'm going to experiment since I have my speakers a good distance from the back wall (like 23in to rear speaker surface), I can push my center cabinet backwards towards the wall 5 or 6 inches.

Thanks for your input (and diagram) Tim.............

Yes, of course, most of us have compromises to make (see my room layout as an example), but every little bit helps. The side benefit of having your L/R speakers in front of the center speaker plane is that imaging will also improve because there is no longer a TV or AV rack right between them to interfere with the dispersion of the L/R speakers.
post #3125 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Actually, the optimal positioning for the L/R speakers is typically slightly *ahead* of the plane of the center speaker. The goal is to have all speakers equidistant from the listening position. So if you form an equilateral triangle between your seat and the L/R speakers, *and* you place the center speaker even with the face of the L/R speakers, the center will now be closer to you than the L/R speakers.




The distances between P1, P2, and P3 are all equal. But the distance between P3 (the listening position) and D (the center speaker) is shorter. The center speaker should be placed at the hash mark between points D and B to make it equidistant from point P3.

Class dismissed.


Thank you sensei. I think I will move my left and right a bit more forward and see if I notice any change. Currently I have all three pretty much on an even plane with the right and left speakers toed inward slightly.
post #3126 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles4 View Post

I have a similar setup and second WCD opinion, after taking the picture below I moved my left and right speakers forward to be on the same plane as the center channel speaker

nice clean set-up! Nice cabinet space fit for the GS-LCR.

A little off-topic: Just curious if you have ever cleaned your Pioneer display? I know, technically, there are no safe compounds to do this (supposedly). My new Kuro display has a few little marks here and there, and the bezel frame has some significant (very faint) "spotting" all around it, as if there was condensation betweeen protective foam packing shroud and screen during shipping. Also constant layer of dust. It bothers me. I've only been using "Swiffer" duster product to carefully wipe away dust layer on bezel frame. The "special" micro-fibre cloth Pioneer provides is not so effective and seems a bit "harsh" to me.
post #3127 of 10043
What I don't understand is if someone is dedicated enough to shell out $4000 for a pair of speakers, why would they limit themselves to placing the speakers in a location that is not going to do the performance any good. I mean, I understand the whole thing about limited space and all, but what's the point in spending that kind of cash when you're never going to get them sounding even half as good as they possibly can?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone here because I see it all the time all over the WWW. Even people that buy loudspeakers costing greater that $100k still shove them up against the wall of way back in the corners. It makes absolutely no sense at all to me.

If you are truly that limited on space, then the best thing would be to buy a really great pair of book shelf speakers and stands so you can place them better in the limited amount of room you have, then add room treatments to help improve the sound that much more.

And the whole "WAF" thing... All I'm going to say about that is it's a bunch of BS. Whenever I get around to getting married, my wife is going to know well ahead of time that music and audio equipment is non-negotiable. If she doesn't like it, then she can either get over it or take a hike. That's how it was with my parents. My father used to have all of the stereo equipment and huge Klipsch speakers all the time. Sure, she would complain about it (the constant money being spent and the amount of space being taken up), but he pretty much told her to get over it. And guess what, they are still very much happily married to this day after 46+ years. So the ones who go on and on about having to obey the WAF, they are you-know-what whipped and obviously do not wear the pants in the family.

To get to my original point, all I have are a pair of one months old $1000 RS6's that I only paid $700 for, and I have them placed much better than most others do. At 13 x 17ft, my room is by no means large, but I make due with what I have and am probably achieving much better sound out of these little $700 speakers than people with $4000-10k speakers crammed into corners and up against walls.


Anyway, I didn't mean to take off on a rant here, and I'm in no way upset or anything. I just don't understand the logic of some of the things I see going on in the audio world these days.
post #3128 of 10043
Anamorphic, care to provide us with a few pictures of your room?

hifisponge, what would you recommend if have to place the surround speakers on the back wall behind sofa?
post #3129 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by justthinking View Post

Anamorphic, care to provide us with a few pictures of your room?

hifisponge, what would you recommend if have to place the surround speakers on the back wall behind sofa?

The trick here is to try to get some distance between your seated position and the speakers. The best (only?) way to do this is to place them 2-3 feet above the seated ear height. And if you can, try to move the couch out from the rear wall as much as you can. So that your highs are totally rolled off, see if you can find speaker mounts that tilt so you can point them down a bit. Another, less conventional option would be to place the speakers behind the couch, slightly below ear level with the face of the speaker pointed towards the ceiling.

The problem with having surround channels that are too close to the listening position is that even if you turn the levels down, they tend to draw too much attention away from the front soundstage. Both of the above solutions help minimize this problem, though neither will totally address it.
post #3130 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by justthinking View Post

Anamorphic, care to provide us with a few pictures of your room?

If you look on page 104 of this thread, you can see a slightly out of date pic of my room just a couple weeks ago (just the front end). Things have changed a little since then. I'll take some new pics tomorrow on my day off.
post #3131 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anamorphic View Post

What I don't understand is if someone is dedicated enough to shell out $4000 for a pair of speakers, why would they limit themselves to placing the speakers in a location that is not going to do the performance any good. I mean, I understand the whole thing about limited space and all, but what's the point in spending that kind of cash when you're never going to get them sounding even half as good as they possibly can?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone here because I see it all the time all over the WWW. Even people that buy loudspeakers costing greater that $100k still shove them up against the wall of way back in the corners. It makes absolutely no sense at all to me.

If you are truly that limited on space, then the best thing would be to buy a really great pair of book shelf speakers and stands so you can place them better in the limited amount of room you have, then add room treatments to help improve the sound that much more.

And the whole "WAF" thing... All I'm going to say about that is it's a bunch of BS. Whenever I get around to getting married, my wife is going to know well ahead of time that music and audio equipment is non-negotiable. If she doesn't like it, then she can either get over it or take a hike. That's how it was with my parents. My father used to have all of the stereo equipment and huge Klipsch speakers all the time. Sure, she would complain about it (the constant money being spent and the amount of space being taken up), but he pretty much told her to get over it. And guess what, they are still very much happily married to this day after 46+ years. So the ones who go on and on about having to obey the WAF, they are you-know-what whipped and obviously do not wear the pants in the family.

To get to my original point, all I have are a pair of one months old $1000 RS6's that I only paid $700 for, and I have them placed much better than most others do. At 13 x 17ft, my room is by no means large, but I make due with what I have and am probably achieving much better sound out of these little $700 speakers than people with $4000-10k speakers crammed into corners and up against walls.


Anyway, I didn't mean to take off on a rant here, and I'm in no way upset or anything. I just don't understand the logic of some of the things I see going on in the audio world these days.

Well, I can say that you have to deal the cards you are delt with and I don't put my dreams on hold just because the situation isn't perfect. My set-up may not be optimal, but I have done everything possible to make the best of the situation. And expensive speakers in a less than optimal room still make me happier than cheap speakers in the same situation. Just because I can't drive over 60 MPH on the freeway, doesn't mean it would stop me from buying a Ferrari if I could afford such things.

With that said, and please don't take this as a jab, while you have good speaker placement, you also have a heck of a lot of reflective, and resonant surfaces in your room. Wood paneling (flimsy, resonant and reflective), hardwood floors (reflective), a glass topped coffee table (reflective) right in front of the listening spot. Those are going to affect the sound quality just as much, but in a different way, as someone that has place their speakers too close to a wall.

Oh, and I have to agree with you about the whole WAF thing. I think any good marrige is built on love and compromise. A loving wife should know how much happiness an AV system brings a man and be willing to make some sacrifices in decor to allow their husband that happiness. Likewise, a loving husband will also understand how much is pleases his wife to have a floral couch and allow her that. He gets the AV gear, she gets the couch and it all works out in the end.
post #3132 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Well, I can say that you have to deal the cards you are delt with and I don't put my dreams on hold just because the situation isn't perfect. My set-up may not be optimal, but I have done everything possible to make the best of the situation. And expensive speakers in a less than optimal room still make me happier than cheap speakers in the same situation. Just because I can't drive over 60 MPH on the freeway, doesn't mean it would stop me from buying a Ferrari if I could afford such things.

With that said, and please don't take this as a jab, while you have good speaker placement, you also have a heck of a lot of reflective, and resonant surfaces in your room. Wood paneling (flimsy, resonant and reflective), hardwood floors (reflective), a glass topped coffee table (reflective) right in front of the listening spot. Those are going to affect the sound quality just as much, but in a different way, as someone that has place their speakers too close to a wall.

Oh, and I have to agree with you about the whole WAF thing. I think any good marrige is built on love and compromise. A loving wife should know how much happiness an AV system brings a man and be willing to make some sacrifices in decor to allow their husband that happiness. Likewise, a loving husband will also understand how much is pleases his wife to have a floral couch and allow her that. He gets the AV gear, she gets the couch and it all works out in the end.

I too would buy a Ferrari if I could, but you can also take it to a track to stretch those legs when you want.

No, no jabbing thoughts in my mind. I know how reflective my room is, and it sucks, but I can fix all of that with some room treatments (and pitch the coffee table). I'd like to trash the fake wood paneling altogether, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. At least I have the room to properly place my speakers though, and room to move if needed.

Exactly how I feel about the WAF thing. I would let her do as she pleases with the rest of the house as long as she leaves "my" room alone. If that doesn't satisfy her enough, then she's got some major issues of some sort and I wouldn't have married her in the first place! LOL
post #3133 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

nice clean set-up! Nice cabinet space fit for the GS-LCR.

A little off-topic: Just curious if you have ever cleaned your Pioneer display? I know, technically, there are no safe compounds to do this (supposedly). My new Kuro display has a few little marks here and there, and the bezel frame has some significant (very faint) "spotting" all around it, as if there was condensation betweeen protective foam packing shroud and screen during shipping. Also constant layer of dust. It bothers me. I've only been using "Swiffer" duster product to carefully wipe away dust layer on bezel frame. The "special" micro-fibre cloth Pioneer provides is not so effective and seems a bit "harsh" to me.

I do not know of any compunds to clean the screen. I just use the cloth that Pioneer provided. I dont think it is too harsh, actually I use a bit of "elbow grease" while using it. I sometimes have to use a some extra pressure to remove some spots but eventually I get them out. It is more of a buffing process, then a cleaning process. Around the bezel frame I am not so nervous about it. It is pretty solid and I basically use a cloth for sunglasses to clean that. Again even with the bezel I would say it is more of a buffing process. I would stay away from leaners and the swiffer I am not too sure about. I would be a little nervous about using the swiffer after you have used it on other dusty areas, since the particles already on the swiffer could get on the Kuro.
post #3134 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles4 View Post

I just use the cloth that Pioneer provided. I dont think it is too harsh, actually I use a bit of "elbow grease" while using it. I sometimes have to use a some extra pressure to remove some spots but eventually I get them out. It is more of a buffing process.

I see, I need to use the supplied cloth a little more aggresive then (not too much pressure, but just enough). I was'nt sure how much I could use the cloth on the screen itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles4 View Post

Around the bezel frame I am not so nervous about it. It is pretty solid and I basically use a cloth for sunglasses to clean that. Again even with the bezel I would say it is more of a buffing process

yeah, the bezel is pure plastic so I'm sure a safe plastic polish would'nt hurt. The supplied cloth actually left some very fine scratches, or "haze", on mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles4 View Post

the swiffer I am not too sure about. I would be a little nervous about using the swiffer after you have used it on other dusty areas, since the particles already on the swiffer could get on the Kuro.

yeah, I use a new Swiffer cloth very carefully each dusting on the Kuro bezel only, and even on my components.
post #3135 of 10043
Here's some photos of my setup. There's a few more in the gallery area for those that are interested.
LL
LL
LL
post #3136 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboff01 View Post

Here's some photos of my setup. There's a few more in the gallery area for those that are interested.

Looks good. Thanks for sharing.

One suggestion. If you can, move the L/R speaker out so the face of each speaker is in front of the face of the entertainment center. Looks like you might block the walkway between the right speaker and the chair by doing this, but if you have the room it would help the imaging.
post #3137 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

If you can, move the L/R speaker out so the face of each speaker is in front of the face of the entertainment center.

I've already done just that ... the pictures shown are from a little over a month ago when I first setup the system.
post #3138 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboff01 View Post

I've already done just that ... the pictures shown are from a little over a month ago when I first setup the system.

Excellent! I hope that your system is bringing you much joy.
post #3139 of 10043
i was thinking of about getting the MA gs60's can someone give me some feedback on these speakers
post #3140 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboff01 View Post

Here's some photos of my setup. There's a few more in the gallery area for those that are interested.

Very nice set up. Hardly ever see the RS6 in black but it looks pretty nice IMO.

Nice Regza too.
post #3141 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by rio203 View Post

i was thinking of about getting the MA gs60's can someone give me some feedback on these speakers

I love mine so far. They do everything well as I throw a lot of different genres at them. From Patsy Cline, to John Legend, to Yes, to Opeth, to Dream Theater, to Vivaldi.

They are well built, have the best spiking system around, great mids and highs, the look great naked, are easily powered (using a Halo A23 here) and they are fairly affordable for what they deliver.

There is a set of gloss black on Agon for $2500 fairly new. Owner is upgrading to Platinums.
post #3142 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkninja67 View Post

are easily powered (using a Halo A23 here) and they are fairly affordable for what they deliver.

Speaking of amps for our Monitor Audio speakers, I just purchased a mint Adcom GFA-555 MkII for my RS6's. I think this will be a pretty nice match.
post #3143 of 10043
I think I will be looking for a new sub and will list my RSW12 on audiogon..
The main problem is the lack of multiple inputs on RSW12..
It looks like RSW12 can only be set to either LFE or line-in mode and these 2 mode can not co-exist..
I was hoping to use LFE mode when watching movie and line-in mode when listen to 2 channel stereo w/ my RS6s..

Does anyone has any recommendation for a subwoofer, preferbly in walnut color that will match rest of my speakers.
How about Martin Logan Abyss? I know it's black, but just want to find out general impression of it...
post #3144 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by justthinking View Post

I think I will be looking for a new sub and will list my RSW12 on audiogon..
The main problem is the lack of multiple inputs on RSW12..
It looks like RSW12 can only be set to either LFE or line-in mode and these 2 mode can not co-exist..
I was hoping to use LFE mode when watching movie and line-in mode when listen to 2 channel stereo w/ my RS6s..

Does anyone has any recommendation for a subwoofer, preferbly in walnut color that will match rest of my speakers.
How about Martin Logan Abyss? I know it's black, but just want to find out general impression of it...


You could check out the REL line of subs. They have both a LFE input and a high-level input that gets its signal from your front left and right speakers, in your case, the RS6's.

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/index.htm
post #3145 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anamorphic View Post

Speaking of amps for our Monitor Audio speakers, I just purchased a mint Adcom GFA-555 MkII for my RS6's. I think this will be a pretty nice match.

I had an Adcom GFA555 Mk II back in the mid to late 90s and I loved it. Drove everything from DefTechs, to Thiels and Paradigms. Just a powerhouse of an amp for the money.
post #3146 of 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkninja67 View Post

I had an Adcom GFA555 Mk II back in the mid to late 90s and I loved it. Drove everything from DefTechs, to Thiels and Paradigms. Just a powerhouse of an amp for the money.

As I've seen many different reviews of the 555 MkII, some saying it has some grain and others saying it is warm and smooth somewhat like Krell, I'm hoping I will find it as being the latter in hopes of taming the top-end of these RS6's. They do tend to be a tad bit on the bright side and could use a softer touch.

Right now I'm powering them with an old 1978 Technics SU-8099 integrated amp rated at 115W x 2 @ 8 ohms. It has helped some over my Elite receiver's amps, smoothing things down a bit, but not enough. Surprisingly enough, it also helped in the imaging and soundstaging as well. It's a tank of an amp, and is still running strong after all these years. The sucker weighs about 60 lbs, has a massive transformer, a massive bank of large capacitors and runs hot as heck, even at total idle! I think it's biased to mostly run in Class A for the first few watts or so. Plus all of those good ole' output transistors sound better than mosfets I think, which I also like with the 555 MkII.

Just for fun, here's a pic of the Technics...

post #3147 of 10043
What subwoofer would you guys recommend that goes well w/ the silver series?
I would perfer something that has LFE, Line-in and Speaker-in..if comes in walnut color would be ideal..
How do you guys think of Martin Logan's Abyss?
post #3148 of 10043
I was actually considering the Martin Logan Depth until I finally settled on the SVS PB12/+2. For the money, the SVS is the better deal. And I have to say, the latest v.3 drivers sound pretty darn good.

For the price of the Abyss, you could easily get the SVS PB12-Plus for less and blow away the Abyss, or even the SB12-Plus if you rather a sealed sub and still blow away the Abyss. And I'm not referring to max SPL here either. I'm referring to sound quality, bass extension and overall performance at a lower price point.
post #3149 of 10043
Anamorphic, I think I am leaning toward SVS SB12 Plus as the PB12 Plus and PB12Plus/2 is simply too big and will be over kill for my living room.
(The size is about 16x20 w/ 8 ft. ceiling)
Too bad my speakers are in walnut not rosenut, otherwise it would be a perfect match since SVS does offer similar rosenut color as MA does..
Anyway..I am leaning to ward either piano black or charcoal black..Thanks for the input..
post #3150 of 10043
Black goes with everything. And it's very slimming.
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