Klipsch owner thread - Page 349

By the way, is it for all of the Klipsch speakers or just a model or two or....

It seems what I found is the mod is for the RF7 and deals with the output at 3-4khz range..the mod cuts the signal down which in turn stops a ringing in the driver!

Then why do you think you need them! Fwiw, I have heard good things about Dean's work but am willing to bet that over 99% of RF-7 speakers sold have owners who love the sound of their speakers (without the "upgrade" )and I am one of them...

Here is Dean on this forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post16467976

Did I say I needed them? The ones I was considering just happen to have them but the more I think about it the design flaws in the rf-7 concern me too much. I might just wait till I can get something better like the 63

Goon, maybe I missed it, but you're having strong reaction to speakers you haven't heard? no? If I've learned anything on this forum, it's to form my own opinion to the best that I can. Adjectives are easy to type and mean something different to each one of us.

I haven't heard the JTR's, and accept their superiority based on those on the forum that have experienced both. But, I've heard enough speakers in my time that I can't believe one would leave you disappointed over the other. If they do, it would be marginal, and let's face it...you aren't going to "downsize" for financial reasons and not make some sacrifice.

Before Dean's mod, there was Bob Crites mods. You can go to http://www.critesspeakers.com/ and look for upgraded cross overs for a lot of klipsch speakers. He also has a lot of drivers for klipsch speakers if you have blown any. My KLF-30's and my C7 all have the updated Xovers from bob and it made a difference. Was worth every penny and brings this older speakers up to date and makes them still compete with the rf83 and such.

just another option if people are looking for this stuff. Everyone knows bob on klipch's forums.

All true but there is a fact that a 10" woofer is asked to handle human voices and midrange sounds.

I'll keep my thoughts out of this thread since it should not be about me and will only ask questions when needed. I have some very mixed feelings but really need the high dynamics so I might need to get over them

I can say without a doubt that the Bob Crites up-grades are well worth the money ... I have done his CornScala mod to my Cornwalls & am VERY glad I did ! best investment I ever made in Speakers ... think of Crites upgrades as a Refinement on Klipsch speakers
ie ; Like souping up a muscle car to do a 2 second 1/4 mile
......................life long Klipsch Fan for 40 years here

I hope you read my tone correctly...I didn't intend to scare you off. We enjoy hearing your thoughts through the process.

There are very few speakers for less money that will be in the same dynamic league as the JTR's. In my opinion, the RF7 is one of them! Have you considered a used pair of LaScala? You can get a beat up pair for $500 or less. If you can't be pleased by the dynamics from them, then you need counciling!

If I may offer a different spin on this though? Sometimes speakers are just a perfect match, and you seem to be pleased with the JTR's to a degree that few of us achieve. I would find every possible way to hold onto them. There must be some other way to get through the financial crunch. Another job? Selling something else?

hello everyone again ,i had a simple question this time around .how can i test my woofer or drives on my rc 62 that they are working ? to the touch i feel the vibration and of course i hear sound ,people talking .is most of the sound coming from the horns or the woofers cauz i could swear i hear one woofer have more sound than the other .....maybe i m just a little crazy .so is there any good test discs to test my speakers or drives and how do you test your drives? thank you

Goon, if you're close by a 6 avenue electronics store then you can listen to the RF83/63. They usually have them in their showroom.

Sorry, but if you have the Triple 12's or Triples 8's then you are asking your 12" or 8" woofer to handle human voices and midrange tones too...soooooooo..you clearly love your speakers. If your not interested in the RF7s stop talking about them, not to be an ass but Im sure people are tired of telling you the same things over and over...We all would love to help you out and give you our opinions, but you dont seem to be taking them imo.

malmstump -- What you hear out of your RC-62 depends on the audio that is going into it (of course). My RC-62 sounds similar to what you describe. Remember that the mid-range/tweeter crossover is at 1650Hz, so above that frequency almost all the sound is coming from the tweeter horn. Also, one woofer is rolled off at 1150Hz, so between 1150Hz and 1650Hz (less than half an octave), only one woofer is producing most of the sound.

The majority of human voices are going to be output from the tweeter horn, except for the lowest 1.5 octaves, or so (mostly the bottom end of male voices). Audio "mid-range" is normally identified as between 1000Hz (some say 800Hz) and 5000Hz (the predominant range of most voices). IIRC the majority of musical (orchestral) instruments have fundamentals between 500Hz and 8000Hz (4 octaves) -- except for the Bass Violin, Sousaphone, Bass Drum, and some others.

The crossovers are not "brick walls", however, I do not know what the crossover slopes are. Between 1150Hz and 1650Hz (say 1400Hz), the majority of the center channel audio will be coming from one woofer with a significant portion of the audio coming from both the other woofer and the tweeter.

The only way to test the RC-62 is to get a audio test CD, and play it through your system. You can also download a set of audio test tones and run them from your computer into your system. In order to do a fair test, you need to turn down the volume on your R/L main speakers (or disconnect them). The best way to do the test is to use an external microphone placed close to each speaker and measure their outputs. There is measurement software available for this purpose (and it's free, on-line) You can use your ear but you have to be very close to each speaker (and use low volume, please).

I've been tempted to do this myself, just out of curiosity (because I noticed the same thing as you did, when I first got my RC-62). However, my center channel audio sounds just fine at my listening area, so that is not my highest priority.

ct-weibe you are the best man thats so comforting to hear dude thank you sir very much for responding,i was thinking i was going crazy .i have an onkyo tx nr 807 and i ran audessy and changed speakers around and used one of the fronts to make sure it s not the receiver and that the center output is good .i also read on klipsch s website that only one woofer output the lows the other acts like a mids and of course the horn is the highs but i thought maybe my rc62 is bad lol thank you so much again btw do you hear the left woofer stronger than the right that s if you are standing in front of them?also where is that tool that s a free download?

Think that's the way it's supposed to work. The RC-62 is a 2-1/2 way speaker.
One woofer does double duty and handles bass and midrange. That is probably the "louder" one. The other one only handles bass.

I'm sorry, but I just do not believe your vocal frequency range stat. The fundamental part of a speaking voice is much lower than that. I've 'scoped most of my family and friends, and the range is closer to 150Hz to 600Hz. That 600 Hz is from a child, by the way. I'm pretty sure singers have a much wider range, yet I still can't believe there are very many notes over the 1700 Hz crossover. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

I don't trust wikipedia in all matters, but an article there lists notes that singers are asked to produce. E2 to C6, or from 80 to 1100Hz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_range

Ron thanx man that s also very comforting ,you know what guys i just reran a full 6 step audessy and bingo it s wonderfull guys ,but i think that it was you guys giving me that confidence boost that i needed cauz i was just doubtful. it s sounding awsome now better than b4 actually i can hear the dialogue and bass from both .i do think that you guys are right tho one does double duty so it s 2 and half like you said Ron

malmstump -- There are two programs that a lot of AVS members use. RTA (Real Time Analyser) and REW (Room EQ Wizard). The RTA is a software version of an audio spectrum analyser.

RTA: http://www.trueaudio.com/
The 1 Octave version is free, but not very useful for what you want to do (but free to try it). There is a fee to get the 1/3 Octave version, and more money for more detailed versions.

REW: http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

To get the REW software requires that you join the Home Theater Shack (http://www.hometheatershack.com/). Membership is free, like AVS, and I use the same login (ID & password) that I do for the AVS Forum (so I don't forget it). Most true audiophiles prefer REW, but it takes longer to learn and it works best if you buy a really good microphone.

Although AVS has an Audio area (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=91), the Home Theater Shack has more stuff. Another Forum on audio is the Audio Circle -- http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php.

If you Google "Audio Test Files" you will see a number of on-line sources of audio test stuff. These include:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multime...enerator.shtml
and
http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk/testwavs/.

Another interesting site was -- http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-down...testfiles.aspx.

One CD that I bought ($21) is the "Rives Audio Test CD 2", which is a good set of audio test signals (1/3 Octave) and it has a set of tracks that are corrected specifically for the Radio Shack SPL meters (the analog one is preferred: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family). This CD is not really setup for surround sound systems (it's basically a Stereo source), but can be used with them. Rives is in the business of professional audio room correction contracting and supplies.

Sorry for a little bit of a side track (OT), but just trying to help out a new member.

My room is about 18x15.. my lascala work very well. Right now an academy serves as my center channel, although I am thinking about having a custom built using lascala mid and tweeter guts. Just using a RW-12 for the sub which is ok, would much rather have a RSW-12 Aesthetics wise my Lascalas have full grill from top to bottom... I think it helps it not look like a doghouse which gets the WAF within spec.

TitaniumMan -- Thanks for the correction. The more I think about it, the more I think that the wikipedia article is correct, and I was really way off base, That means that both of the woofers in the RC-62 are producing almost all of the entire vocal range. Only a very slight amount (around -18dB, estimated, or more below the woofer levels) of the highest vocal frequencies (falsetto & high female, soprano) will be output from the tweeter, in addition to the woofers.

I also think my estimate of the lower end of musical instruments was not low enough, either. I think I was off by almost 3 octaves on the bottom end (they should also go down to around 60Hz to 80Hz, not 500Hz).

ct_weibe again thank you so much for the programs i downloaded the free one rta ,haven t really try it yet but i will .i also want to register and download the rew .i m just happy my center 62 sound fantastic again after the audessey calibration.you have no idea how frustrating it was ,i thought the guy i bought them used off of just lied to me or didnt break em in properly or busted the center but i m glad it s all back to normal again

I received an E-mail from Klipsch that says the New RF-7IIs are shipping...Yay.

I need a little help on mounting position for surrounds. I have a pair of SS-1 speakers with the keyhole slots. My room is small only 11' X 14' so I don't know if mounting them on the wall near the ceiling facing straight out or mounting on the ceiling close to the wall with a pair of Monoprice mounts facing on a 45 degree angle down would be better. Unfortunately due to one outside door and a large opening into the kitchen the TV has to be in a corner with the main listening position in the opposite corner so the surrounds would be 90 degrees apart about 8' from the corner.

Thanks,
Tom

I am a long time def tech fan, but am considering going with a klipsch heritage ht. I found a pair of la scalla's within my price range and am considering them. I have auditioned the klipsch rf83's with the 64 center and was very unimpressed. They were powered by an 1800$ marantz receiver. (unsure of the model number). I have also auditioned the klipsch rf82's (not sure of the center) powered by a sony recienver and was also very unimpressed. The reason I am considering a la scalla set up is because of this fond memory I have from back in 1990's when dd or ac3 as they called it back then, first came out. I got to hear a setup of la scalla's for all three acrross the front and herseys in the rear powered by a mac system. The day I auditioned those was amazing. The dynamics, and the db's were amazing. I was very young at the time and it was my first time to hear a dolby dig system, so Iam wondering if the reason it blew me away was due to it being the first time I ever heard sounds pan from left to center to right, or if it was because that system was truely that amazing.

My questions are directed to those who have expirence with both the heritage line and the rf line. Being that the rf83/64 combo was so disappointing would a trio of la scala's be much better? Its been such a long time that I cant remember how that setup compared to any of the def tech stuff of today. My likes in my mains and center are crisp highs, detailed mids, strong soundstage with envoleping sound, and being about to produce enough bass to handle anything 60hz and above. If I do go with the la scala's I wont be buying new, and will probably go with an older pair of la scala's with upgraded crossovers. Right now I am just starting with the mains and center. I dont have a place to audtion any of the heritage line so I will be basing the larger parts of my decision as to how you guys think they differ from the rf line.

Okay, first, you say you were very young in the 90's yet your name is OldTimer???? I was young in the 90's, and I've got decades before I'll respond to "oldtimer".

I have experience with most of the Klipsch offerings. My Dad is using RF62's for mains, I've used the THX (KL650's) as mains and just changed them out to a used pair of LaScala's.

In short, the RF62's are in a smaller room, and I'm actually impressed with them. The KL650's are a noticable improvement. They were more dynamic and capable of more clean volume. I didn't feel the need to upgrade from the KL650's until I got new subs. The subs were capable of filling my rather large room, and it made clear that the 650's were not designed for a room my size. If I had a smaller room I suspect the 650's would have been all I ever wanted.

I got my LaScala's in an attempt to fill the large space better. Several things were apparent immediately. They were clearly more efficient and provided a larger sound. The sound was projected to the back of the room much better (32'). Compared to both the RF and THX line, I think the Heritage are a bit more shrill. Call it what you want, either revealing or shrill....it is there.

Room size would have an awful lot to do with my decision. If your space is 5000cf or larger, the LaScala will distance themselves from the others. In a smaller room it comes down to personal taste.

If you scroll back several pages, you'll see a photo of my LaScalas.

I'm surprised you were left unimpressed by the 83/64 combo. Recently upgraded from the 82/62 and have been in audio nirvana.

Good luck with the Lascalas, hopefully you can audition them before taking the plunge.

Best Regards
KvE

Well I went to another store and heard Heresy III's...
Something was wrong, the same "static" was there as the rf-83's in another store. 2 people in the store with me (who I didn't know) went "jeez, not very good". I said "static right" and they said yeah its all fuzzy ect.

Turned down the volume and it was even more apparent. I went and listened to some polk lsi15's in another room and they could not play my demo disk and were playing some jazz type stuff and sounded pleasant and interesting but my demo disk was a challenge so it was not a fair comparison.

Soooo I get home and listen to my disk (Clapton, one more car one more rider) and INSTANTLY the problem with the klipsch because describable,* clarity and separation. For instance i not realized that the "static" was the cymbal* bleeding into the electric guitar due to it being a live recording. On the JTR's both sounds were there clearly, on the klipsch it was more like a hybrid guitar/cymbal that sounded blurry and like a hiss. At another point there is some background hiss which again I hear as high frequency clarity issues on the klipsch but on the jtr it is clear the recording just picked up some electronic noise and the clarity of the instruments stayed despite the noise. Finally in one portion the voice got a mid muffled for a couple lines on the klipsch, on my jtr's I went ah! he moved a little closer to the mic for a minute.


Really the clarity and separation is what the problem was, without going back and hearing it on my jtr's again I might have called them "bright" but now that I have heard the difference it is NOT that they are bright they just don't have the clarity that the jtr's do and the high frequencies blend together making some things sound like static or bright.

EDIT:
Want to add. The JTR's sounded "live" close your eyes and all the strenghts and weaknesses of a live concert are there and it felt real. The heresy felt a bit better than the rf-83's but still very "speaker"... Heresy's I'd give a 5, rf-83 honestly.. like a 3. Comparison my paradimg studio 60's would get a 7.5, infinity beta 50 a 6 and jtr's a 9+ (I don't give 10's ha)

That doesn't sound right.

Goonstopher, it's pretty obvious that you aren't going to be happy with any other speaker after being spoiled by the JTRs! You really need to keep them if at all possible......so as not to feel disappointed.