Klipsch owner thread - Page 552

Got my RB-61II in today by way of 2nd day air these were double boxed with some type instant foam and glad they were outer box big rip down whole side.But now these babies are in caring hands.They sound great as side surrounds haven't had time to get them dialed in to busy listening to some Rush,Pink Floyd,Boston,Zepplin,Alan Parsons.

Hello

I just purchased the RF-62II and 62II-RC front and center and now as I'm trying to get a subwoofer, Klipsch's website I saw that the recommendation for my set would be subwoofer SW-112, searched the internet some review about this subwoofer but found nothing.

Some of you have this subwoofer? What do you say to me? It is a good subwoofer, it is worth investing in it?

My usage will be 60% movies and 40% in multichannel music, my room is 12 x 19, and my Onkyo receiver is a 5008.

thanks

Daniel

I would advise against a klipsch subwoofer. The value just isn't there. They make decent subwoofers but they tend to not get really that low and charge too much for what you get. If you share a budget we can find you something good.

And I wouldn't feel good if I didn't mention DIY. You can build your own subwoofer for cheaper or the same price as nearly any other subwoofer and get a lot better performance if you don't mind a subwoofer that is a little (or a lot) larger. If you have tools and are handy with them it really isn't that difficult. If you're not good with tools you can always pay a local cabinet maker to build the enclosure for you. I would be happy to help design something to fit your needs.

You do not have to be seeking 120 db levels to want better sound from speakers. I rarely listen above 75 to 80 db. However, I have found improved sound quality with different receivers. I have a Denon 2308 and a 4310. The lower rated 2308 actually seems to have more power to drive my speakers which can dip low.
I had RF7's in the past and although rated at a very high sensitivity they performed better with increased power.

I won't dispute sound quality levels of receivers. I have had some receivers that just didn't seem like they had a very good sound. I don't think my current receiver has a huge open sound like I have heard with others so because of that I am going to upgrade probably soon. Onkyo or denen are on my list. They typically get closer to their rated wattage than other receivers.

I just know that if going on power alone and nothing else, going from a 110 watt receiver to 140 watt isn't that big of a difference. If going up to a 140 watt receiver is a big jump in price they will typically get closer to actual wattage also. A standard 100 watt receiver may only get 30 watts per channel with all driven. Some of them will only achieve that for a few milliseconds. The more expensive receivers usually do a better job at it.

I remember something I read once that seems to hold true. Buy by weight. With a bigger transformer comes more power. An all digital amp won't weigh nearly as much so those wouldn't count in that.

Pardon the interruption, but I would like to get people's thoughts as to what a good price for a pair of used RF-83s would be. I have RF-82s but I remember listening to the RF-83s at the time I bought the 82s and thought they were clearly better, but a lot pricier. Thoughts?

I have to disagree.
It's those few milliseconds that make a big difference . & most modern AVR's are placing so many features in the units that the amp sections are taken a big hit as well as the capacitors are not as big like in the past as well . Plus then add 5,7,9 channels driven really makes the AVR run at near what it can do & they loose steam , fail at getting the dynamics @ key moments (that is a huge issue in the modern sound tracks on movies) . if go back & look at older AVR's you will see they weight alot more than the current Flagship AVR's on the market today.


I have a TX-NR5008 Onkyo , a Flagship AVR ,
the newer flagship AVR's are lacking in good clean power when pushing 7 to 9 channels .
My 5008 is rated @ 145 watts per channel but when bench tested by a testing group it was only pushing less than 70 watts per channel on 5 channels driven , now to be fair the 5008 is the best AVR I've ever owned & sounds Great pushing 5.1 but it quickly looses steam with any more speakers added or in a very dynamic Action Movie .Since I have added power amps to system detail,headroom,noise floor,dynamics all have take a huge expansion of my soundstage
a separate power amps running my 5008 as Pre/pro is the best of both worlds,1st class AVR & enuff power to add real punch to the soundstage

So I added a UPA-7 by Emotiva to push my Heights,wides surrounds ,center & left the mains on the 5008 & I was in bliss it sounded great . But found it odd that my mains were some what lacking in dynamics ( they were being pushed by my 5008 so they were getting 145 watts a channel , still some thing was wrong . Emo has the UPA-2 on sale right now so I added that to the mix running the mains off the UPA-2
It was eye opening addition as now my main sing along with the rest of the channels & I now have a massive dynamic soundstage , no real change in volume levels But WoW the Dynamic response is astounding VS just what I had when the 5008 was running with it's amps

BTW the UPA-7 was 80 LBS shipped & the UPA-2 was 50LBS shipped & both units have HUGE Toroidal transformers as powersupplies .


my best advise these days to anyone buying a new system, is get the best power amps you can ( Amps never really go bad & they never get obsolete..soo once you buy a great power amp it's good for life ) Then get a Pre/Pro with features you want (this is the unit that over time will become obsolete)
another option is use your current AVR as a pre/pro & add power amps ..later down the road when the AVR is obsolete you already have the amps & just add a pre/pro

I see that OutLaw has it's 7 channel Amp on sale right now & that's a great unit & great price .


http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7125.html


https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/electronics.html

I'm confused as to what you're disagreeing on.

If its the weight issue and being packed with more features I can understand to a point, but I can have a pocket flashlight with me and peek thru the top of the receiver and tell if most of the weight is from bells and whistles (they are starting to weigh a lot) or the transformer. To me it would seem pretty simple if you have a sony receiver with the same or close to the same options as an onkyo and the sony weighs 5 or 10 lbs less that the onkyo is the way to go.

I do like external amps so I'm not going to disagree with you there, its just that the question revolved around receivers and for some (myself included), we can't easily justify the price of a big multichannel external amp. I'm running a pro amp for my subwoofer. For me I don't need a lot of wattage for my speakers. For normal tv and movie watching I'm probably only pulling .01 watt of power for my mains and maybe a half watt for my surrounds each. Peaks do demand more, but even then when I'm watching a movie and want to hit the theoretical 105 db per speaker reference level all I'm pulling for my surrounds are less than 10 watts per speaker and around 1 watt each for my mains. For light music listening I could run my mains direct off an ipod probaby.

I don't know the answer to this... 18 months ago when I bought my RF83's I got them brand new from a brick and mortar authorized dealer on a weekend promotion for 50% retail.
That was just before they came out with the -II Reference Series.
I do not know if used RF83's would be considered $2800/pr msrp speakers or if they would be considered $1400/pr msrp speakers since they were widely available for that price at the end of the life cycle.

Brandon ,
I disagree that you need a new AVR & that where you state that the newer AVR's should do better in pushing multi-channels ..they do not , they have gotten worse . If I had to do it all over agin I'd got the Onkyo 5508 Pre/Pro & the 9 channel Integra/Onkyo amp. thou I do feel the Emotiva amps seem to be better of a amp than the Integra/Onkyo (The Emo's have a lower noise floor & they run very cool )
if you need new features then yes a new AVR but to me what you describe is a lack of dynamics due to your current AVR is at it top end .

The basic disagreement is over the need for an amp. I have a 3008 and no way could it drive my 9 speaker system. I have an XPA-5 for my front stage.

My 3008 should be able to power my rear wide 82's and rear surround 52's, but I doubt it could properly power more than these 4 speakers. Proper power isn't a loudness issue, its a sq issue.

Also, I decided to go w/ a cheaper cable for my 52's, the Canary 4S8 since the signal is already degraded to surrounds.

I recently bought Klipsch RF 7II along with RC 64II after good advice from the Acoustic Sound Design and the system is mind blowing.
Being very new to this high tech audio scene, i appreciated the Acoustic Sound Design for guiding me through the process of becoming a proud Klipsch owner and am so happy with how the speakers arrived promptly in perfect condition. Will keep you all posted..

I never said anything about the newer receivers should push better on the multi channels. If anything I was talking about going from a new $300 unit to a new $1000 or more unit. The power should be better the more you spend and closer to the actual rated wattages, though still not where they should be.

I think you got in on the tail end of a discussion. I need no more dynamics and my current receiver is not running full steam when I crank it. My current speakers demand VERY little power. As said in my previous post, to hit 105 db reference levels I am pulling around 37 watts total for all 5 channels driven. Not each channel, but total. My whole suggestion was for a previous poster inquiring about a new receiver and if the benefits of going from a 110 to 140 watt per channel receiver would be worth the upgrade. My answer is no. Not worth spending the extra money when his current receiver more than likely is not his problem.


Edit: for my own receiver upgrade, I am looking for more features. To give an idea of how old my receiver is, it's best video connections are s-video. I want hdmi switching, decoding for the newest audio formats, and auto calibration. The wife hates my second guessing my own measurements with weekly test tones.

For the sake of discussion, how many total watts would you want to drive your 9 speakers and how much do you figure you could get out of the 3008 and still sound good?

Yeah well here's the rub , the older higher quality AVR's had the power to do both in one unit (power for Dynamics & have features)
well those Older features are not cutting the mustard IE: HDMI,newer codecs but the older AVR's had great amp sections & yes they can & did push a multi-channel system well
the newer AVR's & I'm talking top of the lines AVR's don't have the Amp sections the older models had . Why ? The features that are in new AVR's take up too much room in the units (you can only get soo much into one box). New AVR's have multiple processors now for Audio & Video there's a large PCB that takes up room , plus add in the HDMI board another large PCB. see what I'm getting at ? something has to give up room & on new AVR's it's the amp sections .

Not singling you out Brandon & most of my post was not a disagreement .
I had thought you had a newer AVR . Sorry if I assumed something that was not .
agin if I had to do it over again I would never had got the Onk 5008 ,I got the 5508 Pre/Pro
but right now I'm very happy with 9 channels of external amps , it's a night & day difference .
I all ways thought the guys pushing me to go with a Pre/Pro were doing a way overkill, But I'm a believer now .
i know everyone is different in systems , but give your Kilpsch's Huge Dynamic Headroom will drop your jaw, I never knew that my Klipsch could sound even better .

I'm well aware of the amount of room all the new features take up in an amp. I found out the hard way. I had a marantz 5003 or 5004 (can't remember exactly). It was the one that had hdmi switching and accepted audio pass thru only (didn't decode the new codecs) so I could send the new codecs processed from my blu ray player to it. I liked the way the receiver sounded and liked the hdmi switching, but it crapped out on me. Gave the blinking red light of death and was past the warranty. Ended up selling it for parts and went back to my old receiver. One thing I will say for pioneer is their stuff lasts. I have this receiver and an even older stereo receiver in my house used only for computer audio thru headphones. Had another 5.1 before this one and it also never died, just sold it a while back. After hearing some other receivers I prefer the sound from onkyo and denon and the features are welcome. I'm on a constant look for a cheap and/or used unit. Unfortunately I rarely have ANY extra money for my habit, err, uh, hobby so the pioneer works fine for me right now. No huge rush to get one. As I said before, as efficient as my speakers all around are I'm not concerned too much with power output. As long as I can get that 30 or 40 real watts I'll have more than I'll need. In 2 channel mode (the only one I use for music listening) I do rarely crank it up well past 105 db at times and most of the receivers are measured to do past their rated wattages.

You guys motivated me. I've had an XPA5 running 5 for sometime now. But I've been using two amp channels in my Denon 3300 receiver (12 years old) for my side surrounds (7.1). So, I just put a small Sherwood receiver up on craigslist. If it sells, then I'll get a UPA2 to finish out all 7 channels with outboard amps.

I'm doubtful there will be a difference with the surround channels. Particularly knowing my 115w/ch Denon is likely putting out fairly well running only two amps.

Okay...maybe I've talked myself back out of it.

Never really thought of a number. However I will say that I ran my system for a few days w/ only the 3008 (the first XPA-5 I got was bad...EMo got a new one out to me quickly) and the Onk was absolutely not able to power 9 speakers...if I played music it got so hot that I thought it was going to combust, and that was at fairly low volumes. I was concerned so for the most part only watched HT until I got the working XPA=5. The sound improved dramatically w/ the Emo.

Even now it runs hot just powering 4 speakers, I have an Antec cooler on top.

There are a lot of great things about the 3008 and 5008, but if you want the best in sq and have a lot of speakers it needs some help.

In the future if and when I upgrade (I don't plan to for a while) I will probably go w/ a pre-pro.

Really I was quite surprised by adding the UPA-2 to my system , It really did make a very noticeable difference in SQ. Those Emo's will surprise Ya there is no noise floor on them. I have a feeling that they are going to raise prices across the board when their new line hits the market. The parent company is going to force this as they are a great deal for the $. too good of a deal for the share holders of a company that also owns other Amp makers

Yeah my next will be a Pre/Pro but only when I need anything of the future new tech that is not presently on the 5008. I look towards the industry to go with just audio / video processors (AVP's) in a box . AVR's will soon be dinosaurs Except for the Home Theater in Box segment .
But great speakers last a life time

I'll take on that .
Now with a pure Heritage 7.1 I'd say for a separate amp system all that is needed is the class of amps that are rated 125 to 175 per channel is about right as those are quite high efficiency speakers
as for the RF7II ,RF82II and like speakers 200 watts should run those very well as they are not as efficient as the Heritage but one could say the 125 to 175 would work as well for the Reference Line .
Yeah I know you can run a Klipsch Horn off a Clock Radio but for max headroom does one really think that would work well in SQ ?
& I 'm only talking about a Home Theater 7.1 or larger systems here , not talking 2 channel music only systems that's a whole different ball game .
A Home Theater System needs to have instant dynamics ( gun shots,explosions,car crashes,Aliens landing on the roof ) & that's the reason for the need to have alotta HeadRoom on hand in one systems
Even the RF7II's need some serious watts to cover the dips in power needs for explosions.
i find that with separate amps I can run my crossovers at lower levels & Not have subs do all the low end lifting , there by spreading that thump of an explosion to all the speakers as well the sub .
sorry about the long winded post

Would a UPA-2 Two Channel Audio Power Amplifier be a good addition for my front L/R RF-82 or would it be better to run the side surrounds RB-61 from it and let my Onkyo handle the front 3.

Get an XPA-5 so you will have room to grow in the future, or an XPA-3 if you are 100% sure you will never go beyond 5.1 (which is doubtful, especially if you stay on this forum, lol).

The Onk can power rears and rear surrounds all day long.

The conversion from 5.1 to 7.1 begins. part 2

I have a older model RC-62 that works great and is less expensive as the RC-62II is. I found mine on fleebay it was a new "B" stock (no warranty) and it has been
hammered on Bluray movies for several years now. The RC-62 or the 62II will work fine with your room and system you have. The older I get the more gain I have to add to the center for vocals.

:d

I've seen them go for 1300-1600 in the past 6 months or so. I got one pair of mine for 1400 and the other for 900. But the 900 pair have a few dings.

I just got them because I could. I don't have a real use for the extras, but I'm temporarily using them in my band room until I find a better use or another home for them.

I did have them in my living room for awhile. Yup.... All 4 83s, a pair of 82s, RC-62 and 64, and 4 RS-62s. See here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...1&d=1304973287

UPA-2 on the mains , 2 each UPA-2's on mains & surrounds best case center on the Onk
but the Doc is right go with a XPA line for the future pruffing of your system , I myself feel if you can afford a XPA-3 then spend $200 more & get the XPA-5 .
But those UPA-2's on sale you can daisy chain them to as many speakers as needed , they are only 3" high
The UPA-2 @ $300 shipped no sales tax that's a deal you will never see again.

AND buying Amps is like money in the bank they last for ever & always have a decent resale value.
Amps have the best Value of any audio gear as they are always in demand & don't break (look on Audiogon & see what a 10 year old Amp sells for & u'll see what I mean )
The dis-continued UPA-7 I have is worth more now than when I bought it . Sherbourne now has rebranded that model & it sells for 2K (same parent Company that owns Emo)

You must feel the the POWER !!! of "E M O O O O o o " !!! I think with KLIPSCH speakers of any type with these amps. They are a match that are well tailored for each other. I have at one time got so loud that it kinda scary...

ILOVEMYHD is proud owner of a XPA-5 with his 82 Reference system