Klipsch owner thread - Page 651

I just wanted to let all of you Klipsch guys know that I am in the process of building an all out/ balls to the wall Corn-Scala treo for my front stage! I will be doing these as a 2 way, using Dave Harris' Eliptrack 400 horn, matted with a B&C DE750TN driver, along with 4 Dayton Pro-10's for the bottom end. This is going to be strictly for home theater, and I fully expect it to eclipse everything that I have ever heard, in a home theater type setting. These should be a lot better than both the newer Cornwall III's and the newer La Scala II's. Right now I am in the process of ordering the parts, next step will be building the cabinets, then will be final assembly and finishing of the cabinets. I absolutely can not wait to get these babies done! I will definitely keep you guys updated on this, and post lots of pictures!

did you go with the 16 Ohm ? parts Express has that 16 Ohm for 250.00 , I tried to get them but they didn't have 5 in stock , Al from ALK got me a set .. I ordered my ElipTrac-400's , ALK AP12-500 & the DE750-16 all in sets of 5 .

Thanx EZ-Rhino for pointing that out , I'm all set on the DIY kits
This gonna be Very Interesting of a build , the DIY kits has put a 2" compression driver/horn combo into my level of budget .
I always have wanted to go with a wood horn but the wood horn bodies were expensive & I didn't like the squared off horns anyway .The ElipTrac-400 fixes that squared horn problem . Being able to move away from the stock 1" Klipsch drivers that all the Heritage Line have ,New or Old , they all use the same driver . I'll have a set of 4 Klipsch 1" divers for sale soon there are only 2 years old as I replaced all the drivers with new ones when I 1st did my CornScala conversion 2 years ago .

a discussion on 8 Ohm vs 16 Ohm in Compression drivers




http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/163536-1-compression-driver-8-ohm-vs-16ohm-2.html

Some of that is Way over my head... L O L
Edited by Fastslappy - 7/28/12 at 12:53pm

I too had a problem with the square horns, the eliptic shape makes more sense to me. I'm looking forward to following your project. Keep us updated and post photos please.

Nice! I will be interested in following this!

And your basis for the above opinion is ???

You have test measurements or reviews to back up your comment?

Just FYI, there are folks out there with Eliptrac in their modified LaScalas.
And LaScala with the appropriate sub will have better (tighter) bass than CornScala.

I am sure that you will enjoy your CornScalas and they will perform very well to give you an awesome HT set-up.
Just take cer in making baseless / unsubstantiated comments.

Hey guys so I decided to just go ahead and get the Reference line but I still do have one question. I will be using this for 100% HT no music at all. Am I going to notice any difference going with the RF-52 and RC-52 then I would going with the RC and RF 62's I am planning on crossing the speakers at 80hz and pushing everything else to the sub. Thanks!

The 62's are going to be more dynamic than the 52's will
the RC62 is way more dynamic as a center than a RC52 will be & in a HT center that's import .

OK Thank you so the 62 is worth the price difference?

2 Reasons

1...... more bang dynamically speaking this Huge in a home theater

2...... if you ever upgrade you already (to 82's or 83's) have the center in place already
Resale value on the 62 is waay higher on a RC62 than a RC52
the natural up grade with a 62 systems is add 2 RF82's to the mains position ,then move the RF62's to surround duty . the 62 surrounds to backs instant 7.2 system just by adding a set of RF82's... Later down the road of coarse

in a only Home Theater set-up the More Dynamic the sound system is the better ,It really does make a difference in watching a movie , when one has a killer HT you will Not go to the movies anymore at all.............
it's just better at home .... pause button & the munchies are Free !
Edited by Fastslappy - 7/31/12 at 8:08pm

I base this opinion on the many many subjective opinions that I have found regarding this matter. The guys at the Klipsch forums seem to think these will be much better than the stock La Scala or stock Cornwall. I will be using 4 Dayton Pro-10's for the woofer sections, and to be honest, there is no way in hell that a La Scala will have better extension or output than my Corn-Scala's. I am sure you could get pretty close to having the same top end performance with a La Scala, if you modified it with the same horn that I am using, (the Eliptrack 400) but the thing that will always limit a stock La Scala is the bass department.

Wouldn't adding a (or a couple of) quality subwoofwer (s) to the LaSacalas make this point moot? {EDIT: plus allow for lower frequencies at a louder volume to keep up with the LaScalas top end}

One point that Marty didn't say is the 2" diver he plans on using is a high quality driver that is made to be used in touring professional performances ,studio work , concert halls , The driver that Klipsch uses is a 1" driver that is a commercially made outdoor PA driver that primary use is at race tracks, train stations & the like , as it's weather proofed. ( ever wonder why it has that baked enamel finish & is fully enclosed?) .
The LaScala is famous for Not having any bottom end extension at all . Also a little know fact that the LaSalas was designed by Paul Klipsch as a portable PA single outdoor speaking speaker . That fact is support by papers wrote by Paul Klipsch himself .
In the early 50's when the Khorn was 1st made this was all cutting edge tech , but really not much has changed in the Heritage line since & the drivers haven't at all .
The driver that Marty plans on using is much like a Ferrari compared to a new stock Klispch heritage driver which is a comparison to a Volkswagen

Perhaps, it it's tight horn-loaded bass that some of us prefer to bass-reflex. It has plenty of low-end extension to be used as a small speaker crossed over to a horn-loaded sub such as a THT at 60 or 80 Hz.

I agree with that 100% Peter & the Khorn does the bass horn way better than a LaScala or Belle as It's horn body is much bigger there as the Khorn uses the walls of a corner as an extension of it's horn body . The bigger the horn body is on a bass horn the better it's response . Tests have shown the LaScala rolls off at a higher point that the bass bin of a Cornwall bass bin .
There is a mod that will improve the bass response of the LaScala bass bin by adding a larger volume & 2 ports , it's a simple mod as well .
That's the point with these mods that are becoming quite popular , is that one can actually build a better speaker using modern drivers ,modern bass bins @ a fraction of what a New Klipsch Heritage speakers costs .
when one has a old set of Heritage speakers one can quiet cost effectively turn that into a speaker that would sound like a 10X the cost High End speaker system .

the Klipsch Heritage Line Is Just That , Heritage ...
I myself feel that buying a new Heritage Klipsch is not the best way to get a world class horn loaded speaker .
one could do better much as what Marty proposes to do . IF one feels that a folded bass horn is what they want I would suggest they look at the Jubilee bass bin ( It was the last bass horn designed by Paul Klipsch ) & a tophat with the modern wood horns & modern drivers the tech on 2" drivers has really improved in just the couple of years , with these new drivers being very smooth all the way down to 400 & up to 18K distortion free .
I myself would love have a dual THT set-up , my issue with them is a footprint issue ,my SVS cylinders take way less floor space .

Personally, I'm tickled to see more & more stepping up to the plate and using 2" drivers. I was torched a bit a number of years ago for my (perhaps over the top) comments regarding the distinct improvment of the Jubilee (using 2" driver) over the Khorn. I was informed that it could be better but not by the amount that I was frothing about. Interestingly, most if not all, these comments came from those who never heard them.

So it tickles me to see others stepping up to the plate. I think it's going to become more common and for those who enjoy good sound, that will be a good thing.

I will however say that I don't necessarily agree with the comment that "modern wood horns..."

Only reason I say that is the implication that they are inherently better because they are wood and though I can't prove otherwise, I have to think that a properly engineered horn, wood or not, could sound just as good.

Now, if we're talking asthetics, then it might be a whole different ballgame.

One thing I DID have proven to me though was, the bigger the horn the better. (will try to attach picture)

Going down to Hope for one of the Klipsch shindigs, I got there a day early. One of the side benefits was, I got invited to the Lab and Roy was playing with the Jubilee in the chamber. We (he) ended up asking if we wanted to hear it and ultimate, hear the difference between the K402 and K510 to hear the patterns of control.

Upshot, the larger horn held control of the sound MUCH (noticably) better than the smaller horn while standing BEHIND or beside the speaker. On axis, my tin ears couldn't tell a dramatic difference (the little K510 is a very good horn) but once you walked behind the speaker, it was clearly obvious that the smaller horn let a lot more sound wrap around it.

Implicit in that is the smaller horn would allow more spillage beside/behind it and that would only contribute to more room issues. The larger horn with better control would help minimize those issues

So now if we bring "wood" horns into the picture and make them the size of the K402, they're going to weigh a ton, be expensive as my wife but, look beautiful, like my wife

I'd admit, I'd love to have a Rosewood/Ebony/other exoctic wood top horn but it would have to be the K402 in wood, not something smaller. I've heard the difference and it's real.

The benefit of a wood horn over a exactly shaped plastic/PVC/Fiberglass composite horn is the resonance factor that's all . that will not be a huge difference , maybe more smooth feel . The plastic type do have a vibration factor to them , ringing if you will .
And yes a wooden 402 would be expensive & weight alot BUT then I still want one
you are right the bigger the horn the better no getting around that .. the 402 is THE High Supreme Horn ATM due to the shear size of it !
I really didn't mean to compare a wooden to the 402 , as I'm comparing the woods to stock & the off brand plastics that are called Tractix .
the Martinelli Horns are the ones raved about but they aren't made any more Dave from Fastrac Audio is now making the clone of his .
the improvement in the woods that got me to go that way is new round throated ones now being produced . The woods are exotic & priced as such.
the ElipTrac-400 is a breakthrough horn with it being made from MDF , well known for it's non-resonate properties .
anyway I M H O

Are you referring to adding an outboard sub or somehow modifying the stock La Scala cabinet and adding some sort of better driver?
As far as how much my custom Corn-Scala's will/should compare to the regular La Scala, it wont even be close. First off, I will be using a much
higher quality driver and horn combo in this 2 way configuration, the B&C DE750TN drivers along with Dave Harris' Eliptrack 400 horns. For the low
end I will be using 4 Dayton Pro-10's ten inch drivers.

As far as the La Scala comparing to my custom CornScala, The reason I say that "it wont be close" is because there is just no possibly way to get
the kind of performance that my custom Corn Scala's, into a La Scala, or, even a modified La Scala.

But to answer your question. I feel like having a full range trio across the front stage is very very important. Of course I want a large subwoofer for the ultra low stuff, but,
I also want the mains to be able to produce some of the more demanding bass scenes from movies and music, as with music, I rarely listen w/a sub.

Quick question, I have a 7.1 system with r-3650 in wall speakers for all 6 channels, a sw-112 sub, and rc-42ii for the center channel. I am thinking that the center might not be the best match for the rest of the system. Is there a huge difference between the rc-52 vs what I have? Trying to figure out what center would be the better match for my system, anybody have any input?

I am talking about adding an additional subwoofer to the stock lascalas and letting the subwoofer take over for anything under 60 Hz...In that scenario I wouldn't think a cornscala would be an advantage....I see you are also talking about adding a subwoofer anyway and would be curious what advice you would get/have gotten at the Klipsch Forum in that regard. {EDIT: Fwiw, I have RF-7s as mains and they go lower than the lascala, but still prefer to send everything under 60 Hz to my dual RSW-12/15 subwoofers}

I mentioned above cutting the lascalas at 60 Hz and with appropriate subwooferage it should still sound natural and actually be more beneficial to bass demanding scenes, without sounding directional. Again, I am not one of those that have heard the cornscalas, but the best sounding HT I have ever heard was in Indianapolis at Klipsch HQ where they had 3 Lascalas up front, along with 2 Belles taking up surround duty and a pair of THX subs for the lower end...PHENOMENAL! .

the voice match for your speakers is the RC-52 , so the 42 would very lacking in HT . In a home theater the center is important due most of the voices in a movie come from the center. If you feel that you have to punch up the center volumes just to be able to understand conversations then the up-grade to a RC-52 is called for. Only you know your room

One must be cautious when using "it won't be close" or "no possible way".....

Good to see you're going 2-way. I personally think that (2-way) will be a more pronounced improvement to your enjoyment than the other factors (different bass bin) however, having never heard Cornscalas, I'll defer from many comments.

It will sound good regardless. I just happen to voiciferiously disagree with the statements you made

(said by someone who's been to the factory at Hope WHILE enjoying the opportunity to participate in some listening experiments where we put some of their cinema speakers (four 15" direct radiator woofers) up agasint the Jubilee (two 12" drivers inside a horn bass bin) and frankly, the Jubilee with two 12" drivers went toe to toe with the four 15's (same top horn)

It wasn't the same speakers (Cornscala / LaScdala) but if we're allowed to modify? heh... yeah, I'd put some $$ on a wager for that one if I'm allowed to pick the modificatons to the LaScala.)

I, too, have not heard CornScalas, and don't want to argue the point. But, I don't undertand how improving frequencies that are rolled off can lead to overall improvement? No doubt in my mind that there is nothing I could do to my LaScalas that would make anything below 60hz better than what my two subs are currently doing.


I tell ya one way you know if you're on to something special, and that's when talk of "better" things stop tempting you. I read the forums and the wheels start turning in my mind, then I go downstairs and run one of my better demos and I'm cured! I've heard several of the contemporary top tier HT speakers (JTR, Danley tops) and nothing I've heard makes significant improvement over stock LaScalas and good subs. One day I may get a demo (wink, wink, Coytee) that changes my opinion. But it hasn't happened yet.

Tony I suggest that you don't demo a newest models of the CornScalas ........... I don't say that to be mean either .. I'm trying to save you some $$$
Once you hear the new top sections on the newest versions of The CornScalas there is going back to stock . In 8 short years since the CornScala became popular . There have many improvements made to the conversion . there has been a huge improvement in tech on the 2" HF compression drivers & horns in just the last 2 years .
Bob Crites is credited with one of 1st CornScala's here's the thread over @ the Klipsch forum that started it all .
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/46033/435049.aspx#435049
Today's CornScalas have come along way since then

here's a simple Cornwall conversion that delivers a speaker that is a True world class performer

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/165232.aspx?PageIndex=1

Tony that ElipTrac-400 can simply drop into the LaSacla's of yours very easily as well
The old parts will sell on Ebay @ a good return , .. Heck most of if not all of mine sold on the Klipsch forum ..

My take is that originally, folks interested in the Cornscala were going after the low end of the Corn and the top end of the LS. So my comments were aimed at that crowd. I don't look at a Cornscala with the ElipTrac as being half LaScala? It's really a whole new speaker. I'd love to hear it and have no doubt improvements can be made to the LS. But specifically, I don't know what any <60hz improvements would gain you in a subwoofer system? Do you know of any ElipTrac owners in the SouthEast? I'd like to hear it!

+1, along with Coytee's comments.

I also would be curious to see what the impedance curve of the Cornscala is compared to the LaScala...The latter is an 8 Ohm speaker and doesn't take too much to drive and adding a sub makes it an extremely efficient system...

Just to taunt you even more.... it looks like I might have two DTS-10's on the way to my little 2-bedroom apartment here in Jacksonville.

Lemme count... two MWM single bass bins in the spare bedroom... two midbass units to go with the MWM's, two Jubilee's in the living/dining room (I use the entire space as one space) a single (empty cabinet currently) LaScala as TV stand between the Jubilee's and in late August... a pair of DTS 10's on the way. This might be fun.

Funny thing is, other than anyone who personally witnessed me carrying things in, there are only two people who have a clue what I have in here. Apartment manager & maintenance guy who came in once to fix something.

I guess I can be quiet as a mouse... (dammit!)