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Klipsch owner thread - Page 654

post #19591 of 22408
8/7/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by willybguy View Post

does that mean you crank the 7's way up in your 2000 cubic ft space, or not smile.gif

Yes. It was in reference to a Sammy Hagger song with the same title (he wrote after getting numerous speeding tickets)...My nearest neighbor is also 50-75 yards away.
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post #19592 of 22408
8/7/12 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by willybguy View Post

So you are using your RF3's (which seems similar to the newer 52s) as surrounds?

Yes. I use the RF-3s as side surrounds, but it is closer to the RF-82s, and the RB-75s were designed to keep up with the RF-7s and use a similar 1 3/4" compression driver for the horn.
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post #19593 of 22408
8/8/12 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

That's another argument. If you're going to use a sub and cross over to the sub at 80, 60 or 50hz, the rf7 won't really have any advantage over the rf82 or 62. These are great speakers, but they really shine when on their own without a sub and played loud.
If you're cutting them off at 80hz, the numbers aren't much better than the more wallet friendly reference models.
The question then becomes: is the hefty price tag worth it for the looks of a speaker ?
This is why I went with the 8" model. I'll spend the difference on acoustic treatments and better subwoofers.

Baloney!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

From a design standpoint, yes they are a better speaker. When you cut them off at the knees and let bass and sub bass go to the subwoofer, they don't measure that much better when listening at lower levels..

Post the link to those measurements.
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post #19594 of 22408
8/8/12 at 6:53pm
Petty much, in the case of bass management, bass management tells one to roll things off to the subs at 80Hz - 120Hz. Where's the benefit of, for music or home theater, deeper digging mains? confused.gif

I'm running the much older brother to the RF-7 II's; Epic, CF-3's with a 12" sub on the side of each speaker. It seems that subs, coupled with contemporary bass management practices, have changed the paradigm surrounding the act of buying home theater speakers.
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post #19595 of 22408
8/8/12 at 7:12pm
I'm with Zen Traveler.

The upgraded parts of the RF-7II aren't limited to lower bass capability. The entire frequency range is affected by the bigger drivers and the "better" horns. The 10" drivers will handle and sound differently from 80Hz to the horn crossover than the 8" drivers in the RF-82s. Same thing for the different horns between the 2 speakers, which is where the biggest difference between them is.

I'd be glad to let anyone hear RF-82s and RF-83s side-by-side. There is a very noticeable difference, even having the same size main drivers and calibrated by the same AVR.



Crossing over to a sub has the biggest benefit of reducing the required power for the mains, thus increasing headroom.
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post #19596 of 22408
8/8/12 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Where's the benefit of, for music or home theater, deeper digging mains? confused.gif

I'd say the benefit is in the other features and aspects of them. Digging deeper is only one quality.
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post #19597 of 22408
8/8/12 at 7:58pm
The cross-over point that's best is very variable & that depends on many different things ,room,woofers,the power that is being produced , location.
low power systems are best crossed at 80 as then the system needs power to basically run all the drivers & passing off the bass to the subs saves headroom for the speakers.
IF one has power to spare & has speakers with large woofers the it's best to cross just above where woofers roll off .
my woofs in my CornScala's (15" woof) dig deep roll off is 32 I cross them @ 40 the CS-1.5's(12" woof) roll off @ 40ish & i set them to cross at 50 , having 9 speakers push the range between 80 & 40-50 is stunning . With movies the Bass channel LFE gives the subs signals up to 120 so then I have 11 speakers push that 120 to 40-50 range

awesome is the word . smile.gif
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post #19598 of 22408
8/8/12 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

I'd say the benefit is in the other features and aspects of them. Digging deeper is only one quality.

Not being a speaker parts kinda of guy, I have to go on faith that the higher end line of speakers, use higher end parts and the sound quality automatically represents this point.

tongue.gif
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post #19599 of 22408
8/8/12 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Not being a speaker parts kinda of guy, I have to go on faith that the higher end line of speakers, use higher end parts and the sound quality automatically represents this point.
tongue.gif

Exactly.

Going from RF-82s to RF-7s is an example of this. Sure the 7s dig deeper, but they are also a higher end speaker with better parts. That's what I mean by digging deeper not being THE quality they have over the others.

It's not absolute though. There's the point of diminishing returns, which is different for everyone. I don't think I would realize $20k more speaker quality by going to the Palladium line.
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post #19600 of 22408
8/9/12 at 2:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Exactly.
Going from RF-82s to RF-7s is an example of this. Sure the 7s dig deeper, but they are also a higher end speaker with better parts. That's what I mean by digging deeper not being THE quality they have over the others.
It's not absolute though. There's the point of diminishing returns, which is different for everyone. I don't think I would realize $20k more speaker quality by going to the Palladium line.

To me, the only way we can improve on the sound of our existing Klipsch speaker set (powered by a Marantz SR5007 receiver), is the addition of a separate Amp such as an Emotiva XPA-5 and upgrade the existing pair of subs with a pair of Rythmik's, Epik's or Hsu's.

confused.gif
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post #19601 of 22408
8/9/12 at 2:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Exactly.
Going from RF-82s to RF-7s is an example of this. Sure the 7s dig deeper, but they are also a higher end speaker with better parts. That's what I mean by digging deeper not being THE quality they have over the others.

Man, you guys are making me think I made a good purchase by getting the RF-7II's... =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

It's not absolute though. There's the point of diminishing returns, which is different for everyone. I don't think I would realize $20k more speaker quality by going to the Palladium line.

The Palladium, along with other "ultra" high-end designs have a ton of cash dumped into their finishing... I'd like to see the same drivers and components dumped into a similar sized/spec MDF unfinished cabinet to compare performance. Probably get the same (or very close) performance for like 1/4 the cost. I really hate making assumptions, but I'd venture to say a pair of the Jubilees would walk all over the top-of-the line Palladium towers.

One man's opinion anyway... I'm sure this debate has already played out elsewhere in the thread or some of the uber Klipsch guys here on AVS could back up my claim with some science!
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post #19602 of 22408
8/9/12 at 3:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

The Palladium, along with other "ultra" high-end designs have a ton of cash dumped into their finishing... I'd like to see the same drivers and components dumped into a similar sized/spec MDF unfinished cabinet to compare performance. Probably get the same (or very close) performance for like 1/4 the cost. I really hate making assumptions, but I'd venture to say a pair of the Jubilees would walk all over the top-of-the line Palladium towers.

 

Your analogy with the less pretty finish is spot on.  My understanding is the original home version Jubilee was expected to price point around $20K.  Furniture quality finish/looks.  You can get a pair today, factory new, delivered to your home (lower 48) for "about" $8K as I understand.  They do not have the wood HF horn and are not quite as finished as the prototype.  Still...you can save thousands order them unfinished and pay someone to finish them!

 

Second, let's just say that the Palladium is a fantastic speaker in its own right...but for the extra thousands of dollars for the prettier finish....  the Jubilee indeed represents a better dollar/sound value and in my opinion sounds better.

 

Yes, I have heard them side by side

 

700

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post #19603 of 22408
8/9/12 at 4:04am
Coytee,

Thanks for the back-up. I've heard about the same (price) for the Jubilees. I also hear they are hard to beat from an overall price/performance stand point. I'm looking forward to one day owning a LCR Jub setup behind a AT screen matched with some of Klipsch Cinema surrounds.

Still kind of on the fence when comparing the Jubs to some of the JBL Pro Line, specifically the JBL 4722 or 5732. I would love to hear a side-by-side comparison, but I'm not sure how feasible such a request would be.
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post #19604 of 22408
8/9/12 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Exactly.
Going from RF-82s to RF-7s is an example of this. Sure the 7s dig deeper, but they are also a higher end speaker with better parts. That's what I mean by digging deeper not being THE quality they have over the others.
It's not absolute though. There's the point of diminishing returns, which is different for everyone. I don't think I would realize $20k more speaker quality by going to the Palladium line.


I disagree. While the rf7's sound great, I doubt they're huge steps above the other reference stuff. Bigger woofers and tweeters, but are the crossover networks of higher quality ? Same with the cones. Same materials, just slightly larger. If its anything like their thx ultra2 system, its basically just cheap off the shelf woofers in a well designed enclosure. I'm pretty sure the woofers for the thx line were exposed as being $20 parts express woofers. Maybe I am way out to lunch, but I can't see the rf7's are being a better sounding speaker, louder ? Yes, more efficient ? Sure. But off axis frequency reponse isn't much different and I think might have been worse than the 82's.
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post #19605 of 22408
8/9/12 at 4:10pm
Has anyone heard RC64II and the Palladium P-27C side by side?
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post #19606 of 22408
8/9/12 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

I disagree. While the rf7's sound great, I doubt they're huge steps above the other reference stuff. Bigger woofers and tweeters, but are the crossover networks of higher quality ? Same with the cones. Same materials, just slightly larger. If its anything like their thx ultra2 system, its basically just cheap off the shelf woofers in a well designed enclosure. I'm pretty sure the woofers for the thx line were exposed as being $20 parts express woofers. Maybe I am way out to lunch, but I can't see the rf7's are being a better sounding speaker, louder ? Yes, more efficient ? Sure. But off axis frequency reponse isn't much different and I think might have been worse than the 82's.

I don't listen off-axis, so I can't comment to that. tongue.gif


The larger drivers could be argued to be better because of their size. I'm no speaker god, so I'll leave that one alone. However, the bigger horn and its driver definitely sound better than the 82s. I never said they were huge steps above the other reference stuff, just better.
Edited by the Son - 8/9/12 at 4:59pm
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post #19607 of 22408
8/9/12 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

I never said they were huge steps above the other reference stuff, just better.

Better is good.

All I know is, they're clean, full sounding speakers; well, the older brothers to the RF-7 II's are. With the addition of the RC-64 II, at low volume, dialogue is easy to hear and with an addition of a pair of subs, one each side of the mains, there's lot's of bass for the sound track playing. All is good.

cool.gif

What else should/can one expect from their speaker set?

confused.gif
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post #19608 of 22408
8/9/12 at 8:53pm
Hello everyone… I have been looking into the RF7 II’s for the mains in my HT. At the present time I have a set of KG 5.5’s as I do love them but I’m curious as if anyone as an opinion on the subject?? I bought the KG’s for a good price of $200 and then added the Bob Crites upgrades which include the Ti- tweeters & cross over’s. I noticed as I changed the items the speakers did not have the proper bracing and such as I plan on modifying them to my liking. Before I go thru the expense & labor of modifying them I’m curious to rather or not it’s worth it? Such as…. If I were to modify the KG’s I have and compare them to the RF7 II’s would it be just a slight difference or more like a night & day difference?? If its just a slight improvement then I would rather save $2k as I can live with that, but if it’s a total noght & day ordeal then its worth it. Any thoughts??
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post #19609 of 22408
8/9/12 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

Hello everyone… I have been looking into the RF7 II’s for the mains in my HT. At the present time I have a set of KG 5.5’s as I do love them but I’m curious as if anyone as an opinion on the subject?? I bought the KG’s for a good price of $200 and then added the Bob Crites upgrades which include the Ti- tweeters & cross over’s. I noticed as I changed the items the speakers did not have the proper bracing and such as I plan on modifying them to my liking. Before I go thru the expense & labor of modifying them I’m curious to rather or not it’s worth it? Such as…. If I were to modify the KG’s I have and compare them to the RF7 II’s would it be just a slight difference or more like a night & day difference?? If its just a slight improvement then I would rather save $2k as I can live with that, but if it’s a total noght & day ordeal then its worth it. Any thoughts??
Keep your up-graded KG5.5 that pair will run circles around
the 7II's ,
plus placement of the KG5.5 is easy as they are front ported .. you replacing the diaphragms to TI ones , puts them at the same voicing as the 7's . PLUS the fact that the KG's are way more efficient speakers than the 7's not needing the power that the 7's have to have to sound good .
New at Klipsch doesn't mean better .. eek.gif

$200.00 is a steal ..I know you have more than that just in the upgrades but really those are speakers to keep for a life time . wink.gif

Just add some bracing to all the interior corners glue & screw till they are tight one inch 1/4 round molding in oak will stiffen those puppies up Big Time !
The oak will have a lot of tensile strength over pine

if you want to up-grade get a Emotiva power amp with the cash you'd would had spend on the 7's ,look for a Academy center to match the KG's
Those KG5.5's are Kick A$$ speakers I M H O
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post #19610 of 22408
8/10/12 at 5:44am
I can upgrade the Epic, CF-3's? confused.gif

Oh my gosh, can I switch out horn tweeters, woofers and crossovers and use the existing cabinet? confused.gif

A sort of plug-n-play upgrade?

confused.gif

Never thought of that as an affordable upgrade path. Is it even possible to upgrade the sound quality of Klipsch, Epic, CF-3's or CF-4's?

confused.gif

(Current center channel is a RC-64 II)

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/10/12 at 6:09am
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post #19611 of 22408
8/10/12 at 6:02am
Thanks for the reply Fastslappy! I have had these KG's for almost 10 months now as I have enjoyed them VERY much. After I installed the upgrade items I did notice a better perfromance but then again it wasnt a huge differance by no means, it improved the mid level out a little bit... so thats good wink.gif. I'm sure once I get around to bracing the insides as you have mentioned, I can only assume that will help as well. I am curious to rather or not I should repklace the10" drivers as well thou?? I did test them all as they fell withing specs 7.5ohms & such but since they are 14yrs old I wounder if I should just replace them? If I were to replace them any reccomendations to where I can get new ones??
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post #19612 of 22408
8/10/12 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

Thanks for the reply Fastslappy! I have had these KG's for almost 10 months now as I have enjoyed them VERY much. After I installed the upgrade items I did notice a better perfromance but then again it wasnt a huge differance by no means, it improved the mid level out a little bit... so thats good wink.gif. I'm sure once I get around to bracing the insides as you have mentioned, I can only assume that will help as well. I am curious to rather or not I should repklace the10" drivers as well thou?? I did test them all as they fell withing specs 7.5ohms & such but since they are 14yrs old I wounder if I should just replace them? If I were to replace them any reccomendations to where I can get new ones??
Check with Bob Crities on the woofer replacement but unless they are dented, torn, rubbing they should be fine if the surround paper cone is intact .
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post #19613 of 22408
8/10/12 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

Check with Bob Crities on the woofer replacement but unless they are dented, torn, rubbing they should be fine if the surround paper cone is intact .

In our case, the speakers are in pristine shape and being such an anal personality, back in the day, I even went so far as to order a back up woofer which is on a known location, on a shelf in the garage.

eek.gif

At this level, I'm just wondering if there's benefit to a system upgrade as with the addition of the RC-64 II, I haven't complaint one with the 5.2 sound system.

FWIW, the woofer surround cone is a sort of plastic as opposed to the expected paper based woofer standard of the day.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/10/12 at 6:43am
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post #19614 of 22408
8/10/12 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chashint View Post

Baloney!
Post the link to those measurements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

I'm with Zen Traveler.
The upgraded parts of the RF-7II aren't limited to lower bass capability. The entire frequency range is affected by the bigger drivers and the "better" horns. The 10" drivers will handle and sound differently from 80Hz to the horn crossover than the 8" drivers in the RF-82s. Same thing for the different horns between the 2 speakers, which is where the biggest difference between them is.
I'd be glad to let anyone hear RF-82s and RF-83s side-by-side. There is a very noticeable difference, even having the same size main drivers and calibrated by the same AVR.
Crossing over to a sub has the biggest benefit of reducing the required power for the mains, thus increasing headroom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

The cross-over point that's best is very variable & that depends on many different things ,room,woofers,the power that is being produced , location.
low power systems are best crossed at 80 as then the system needs power to basically run all the drivers & passing off the bass to the subs saves headroom for the speakers.
IF one has power to spare & has speakers with large woofers the it's best to cross just above where woofers roll off .
my woofs in my CornScala's (15" woof) dig deep roll off is 32 I cross them @ 40 the CS-1.5's(12" woof) roll off @ 40ish & i set them to cross at 50 , having 9 speakers push the range between 80 & 40-50 is stunning . With movies the Bass channel LFE gives the subs signals up to 120 so then I have 11 speakers push that 120 to 40-50 range
awesome is the word . smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Exactly.
Going from RF-82s to RF-7s is an example of this. Sure the 7s dig deeper, but they are also a higher end speaker with better parts. That's what I mean by digging deeper not being THE quality they have over the others.
It's not absolute though. There's the point of diminishing returns, which is different for everyone. I don't think I would realize $20k more speaker quality by going to the Palladium line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

In our case, the speakers are in pristine shape and being such an anal personality, back in the day, I even went so far as to order a back up woofer which is on a known location, on a shelf in the garage.
eek.gif
At this level, I'm just wondering if there's benefit to a system upgrade as with the addition of the RC-64 II, I haven't complaint one with the 5.2 sound system.
FWIW, the woofer surround cone is a sort of plastic as opposed to the expected paper based woofer standard of the day.
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The feedback around RF-7ii's has been confusing sometimes, but helpful. I recently got a steal of a deal on Klipsch 12D sub for $299; not to keep stoking controversy, but I originally asked if I could (temporarily) drive RF-7s w/ Yammie 671 AVR @ 90-100 wpc. I've talked to Mike at ASD a couple of times about the b-stock cherry 7's because I'm so pleased w/ b-stock cherry RC-64ii.

I also asked the forum about placement - Ive only got about 6 inches clearance from a wall - but wasn't clear on if that's do-able, or if crossing over to the (front firing) sub less of a concern. So I'd welcome some feedback about placement.

After all this hemming and hawing about 7's, I discovered someone not far from me in brooklyn is selling a pair of Heresy II's, cherry, consecutive serial #'s, mint condition, all original packaging, $650 for the pair.

Sigh.

What to do, what to do...
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post #19615 of 22408
8/10/12 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by willybguy View Post

The feedback around RF-7ii's has been confusing sometimes, but helpful. I recently got a steal of a deal on Klipsch 12D sub for $299; not to keep stoking controversy, but I originally asked if I could (temporarily) drive RF-7s w/ Yammie 671 AVR @ 90-100 wpc. I've talked to Mike at ASD a couple of times about the b-stock cherry 7's because I'm so pleased w/ b-stock cherry RC-64ii.
I also asked the forum about placement - Ive only got about 6 inches clearance from a wall - but wasn't clear on if that's do-able, or if crossing over to the (front firing) sub less of a concern. So I'd welcome some feedback about placement.
After all this hemming and hawing about 7's, I discovered someone not far from me in brooklyn is selling a pair of Heresy II's, cherry, consecutive serial #'s, mint condition, all original packaging, $650 for the pair.
Sigh.
What to do, what to do...
those Heresy's are easy to push with lower power AVR's , that price is a little high . I got a set of Heresy I in minty shape for $400 2 years ago
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post #19616 of 22408
8/10/12 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by willybguy View Post

I've talked to Mike at ASD a couple of times about the b-stock cherry 7's because I'm so pleased w/ b-stock cherry RC-64ii.

And FWIW, for the price, it don't get no better. Pull the trigger fooooo.

Quote:
I also asked the forum about placement - Ive only got about 6 inches clearance from a wall - but wasn't clear on if that's do-able, or if crossing over to the (front firing) sub less of a concern. So I'd welcome some feedback about placement.
After all this hemming and hawing about 7's, I discovered someone not far from me in brooklyn is selling a pair of Heresy II's, cherry, consecutive serial #'s, mint condition, all original packaging, $650 for the pair.
Sigh.
What to do, what to do...

You're asking about center channels and mains? confused.gif

Placement is an imperfect art/science. Buy the best you can afford and place the best you can afford to place. That's the real world of Home Theater science.

biggrin.gif

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/10/12 at 11:42am
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post #19617 of 22408
8/10/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

And FWIW, for the price, it don't get no better. Pull the trigger fooooo.
You're asking about center channels and mains? confused.gif
Placement is an imperfect art/science. Buy the best you can afford and place the best you can afford to place. That's the real world of Home Theater science.
biggrin.gif
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Let me clarify my question...

Mains: for the RF-7s, what if I only have 6" clearance to the back wall, and there is about 2" linear distance from left main to the sub & a/v cabinet?

The RC64ii is beautiful in the center channel shelf of a StandOut Designs cherry Haven, perfect.
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post #19618 of 22408
8/10/12 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by willybguy View Post

Let me clarify my question...
Mains: for the RF-7s, what if I only have 6" clearance to the back wall, and there is about 2" linear distance from left main to the sub & a/v cabinet?
The RC64ii is beautiful in the center channel shelf of a StandOut Designs cherry Haven, perfect.

I'm not sure regarding your above as moving furniture around, including furniture replacement, are options. confused.gif

Smaller pieces of furniture and an accommodating entertainment center are an option as that's what we did. confused.gif

We replaced the entertainment center, added ventilation holes to the entertainment enclosure and moved the furniture as necessary. Oh, and the subs are jammed between the mains and both over stuffed chairs. To get equal comparable distances between subs and the main listening position, the subs and mains are skewed. Aesthetically, it all looks like heck. Life is all about compromise. biggrin.gif

As encouragement, due to the layout of the two entryways coming into the living room, the main listening position is scrunched up into the right section of the living room and the main listening position is skewed to a diagonal but sonically, correctly placed. The surrounds are carefully placed on two separate walls as everything is shifted left to accommodate how the furniture is placed in the room; compromise. Sound engineers are not allowed to lay eyes on our speaker layout because they would be asked to leave if they had the temerity to make comment.

cool.gif

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/10/12 at 2:36pm
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post #19619 of 22408
8/10/12 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by willybguy View Post

Let me clarify my question...
Mains: for the RF-7s, what if I only have 6" clearance to the back wall, and there is about 2" linear distance from left main to the sub & a/v cabinet?

I have less than optimum distance between my RF-83s and the wall, but it doesn't seem to be a problem with good EQ.
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post #19620 of 22408
8/10/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm not sure regarding your above as moving furniture around, including furniture replacement, are options. confused.gif
Smaller pieces of furniture and an accommodating entertainment center are an option as that's what we did. confused.gif
We replaced the entertainment center, added ventilation holes to the entertainment enclosure and moved the furniture as necessary. Oh, and the subs are jammed between the mains and both over stuffed chairs. To get equal comparable distances between subs and the main listening position, the subs and mains are skewed. Aesthetically, it all looks like heck. Life is all about compromise. biggrin.gif
As encouragement, due to the layout of the two entryways coming into the living room, the main listening position is scrunched up into the right section of the living room and the main listening position is skewed to a diagonal but sonically, correctly placed. The surrounds are carefully placed on two separate walls as everything is shifted left to accommodate how the furniture is placed in the room; compromise. Sound engineers are not allowed to lay eyes on our speaker layout because they would be asked to leave if they had the temerity to make comment.
cool.gif
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I already have the a/v cabinet as mentioned... moving furniture is not an option.

Let me try and put a finer point on my question. How far are your RF-7's from the wall? What is, if any, a minimum clearance from walls if I'm crossing bass over to a 12D sub?
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