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Klipsch owner thread - Page 665

post #19921 of 22403
8/23/12 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Man, what complication.
Speakers set to cross at 80hz, everything below 80 goes to sub. Some smaller fronts and center should be set at 90 or 100, because it's better to let the sub handle that.
Low Pass Filter setting, 120hz because thats the spec for the LFE channel. If you sub has a built in xover, bypass it, if you cannot, turn it up to max.

Welcome to the Forum Gadgetfreek, and for the most part I agree with you...That said, Audyssey recommended a 40 Hz crossover for my RF-7s and after experimentation found that at 60 Hz you can't tell where the speaker leaves off and the subwoofer takes up the lower end...It just blends seamlessly. cool.gif
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post #19922 of 22403
8/23/12 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I am with ya and I try to be polite, but if some things are left unsaid then misinformation becomes the going currency.
Yeah that's my point ,
there is alot of misinformation that is believed like gospel ... smile.gif
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post #19923 of 22403
8/23/12 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Welcome to the Forum Gadgetfreek, and for the most part I agree with you...That said, Audyssey recommended a 40 Hz crossover for my RF-7s and after experimentation found that at 60 Hz you can't tell where the speaker leaves off and the subwoofer takes up the lower end...It just blends seamlessly. cool.gif
mine , Audyssey croses at 40 on the Cornies & 50 on the Hersey clones
makes it seamless & I have HUGE dynamics in movies , I can actually feel the bass response from the 15" woofers in the CornScalas , they will move the hairs on my leg Big Time ... biggrin.gif
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post #19924 of 22403
8/23/12 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Welcome to the Forum Gadgetfreek, and for the most part I agree with you...That said, Audyssey recommended a 40 Hz crossover for my RF-7s and after experimentation found that at 60 Hz you can't tell where the speaker leaves off and the subwoofer takes up the lower end...It just blends seamlessly. cool.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

mine , Audyssey croses at 40 on the Cornies & 50 on the Hersey clones
makes it seamless & I have HUGE dynamics in movies , I can actually feel the bass response from the 15" woofers in the CornScalas , they will move the hairs on my leg Big Time ... biggrin.gif

Audyssey sets my 83s to 40, and the RC-64 to 50. Driven by a B&K 7250-II, it sets levels to ~-7 for the 83s and ~-4 for the center.

I manually set them all to 80Hz, but haven't done any sweeps yet to see if I have any problem areas, so I don't know if 60 or 70 would be better in my room.
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post #19925 of 22403
8/23/12 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Welcome to the Forum Gadgetfreek, and for the most part I agree with you...That said, Audyssey recommended a 40 Hz crossover for my RF-7s and after experimentation found that at 60 Hz you can't tell where the speaker leaves off and the subwoofer takes up the lower end...It just blends seamlessly. cool.gif

Understood, with that speaker I can see 60hz no problem. It recommends 40hz for my RF82 II, no way smile.gif

My point was "most" speakers need 80 or higher, but it depends on the speaker. I just see some folks doing funky things.
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post #19926 of 22403
8/23/12 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Audyssey sets my 83s to 40, and the RC-64 to 50. Driven by a B&K 7250-II, it sets levels to ~-7 for the 83s and ~-4 for the center.
I manually set them all to 80Hz, but haven't done any sweeps yet to see if I have any problem areas, so I don't know if 60 or 70 would be better in my room.
being able to set the cross @ what Audyssey detects is one of the advantages of a power amp . common theory is set @ 8o & let subs do some of heavy lifting .A power amp lets one use the speaker as intended. Use your woofers as they should be used, their full range with a power amp .
the woofs in my CornScalas do 30 real good , 32 to be exact
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post #19927 of 22403
8/24/12 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

being able to set the cross @ what Audyssey detects is one of the advantages of a power amp . common theory is set @ 8o & let subs do some of heavy lifting .A power amp lets one use the speaker as intended. Use your woofers as they should be used, their full range with a power amp .
the woofs in my CornScalas do 30 real good , 32 to be exact

Yes, not being power limited at the lower frequencies is great. Some day, I'll get around to sweeps witht the XO at 40, 50, 60, 70, and 80 to see which provides the best response in my room.
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post #19928 of 22403
8/24/12 at 4:25am
I did measured sweeps in my room and it did measure best (for me) with an 80hz crossover. However, my ears like it better at 60hz. smile.gif Actually, I bet it's not my ears. I think I just can't resist employing the three horn loaded 15's that are in the LaScalas. Whether or not it sounds best is second to my own mental image.

Whoever was questioning the vomit story, it is a true one. It doesn't have that effect on me, but I realize that a lot of people have never heard <20hz material that strong. When its a first time experience it's different. Like the first time on a roller coaster vs. the tenth trip.
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post #19929 of 22403
8/24/12 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Whoever was questioning the vomit story, it is a true one. It doesn't have that effect on me, but I realize that a lot of people have never heard <20hz material that strong. When its a first time experience it's different. Like the first time on a roller coaster vs. the tenth trip.

I didn't question you! Just saying I'd like to experience it! Even if your system would give me that effect, I'd like to experience one that could... I'll add that to the ol' bucket list.

When I say "system" I mean HT, not asking to be subjected to some crazy acousting test chamber like what Boeing uses to test their satellites or any thing else that uses something like the WAS3000 just to create noise. I do value my ear drums, but getting nauseaus from sound waves sounds like an experience... =)
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post #19930 of 22403
8/24/12 at 10:19pm
I've been using my Onkyo TX-SR703 (100w/ch) to power my RF-7ii's and RC-64ii. I'm thinking of getting a Crown XLS 1000 to power the RF-7ii's and take the load off the Onkyo. Anything I should know about first? I've never purchased a pro amp before. I like this one because of the RCA inputs and I'm a Hoosier so I have to support Crown.
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post #19931 of 22403
8/25/12 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post

I've been using my Onkyo TX-SR703 (100w/ch) to power my RF-7ii's and RC-64ii. I'm thinking of getting a Crown XLS 1000 to power the RF-7ii's and take the load off the Onkyo. Anything I should know about first? I've never purchased a pro amp before. I like this one because of the RCA inputs and I'm a Hoosier so I have to support Crown.

It should be straight forward stuff. Get the Amp, making sure proper ventilation, plug it in and go for it.

As to wiring, make sure everything is proper gauge wire so as to not strangle the amperage going to the speakers and using well made RCA interconnects is always a good thing. Other than that, plug the Amp in, run Audyssey and see what changes take place to your sound quality.

A suggestion, if you can swing it, due to better specs, consider stepping up to the XLS1500 as it's a more neutral amplifier with it's 103dB noise floor as opposed to the noise floor of the XLS100 being 97dB. In technical terms, that's a huge difference for a little difference in price.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/25/12 at 5:31am
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post #19932 of 22403
8/25/12 at 5:26am
I don't know didly about pro amps, but I use one for my subs. Are you aware of how loud they are? Maybe this one is different but I doubt it. Loud as in either mod it or put it in a different room.

Why go pro? cost?

You're probably aware, but that Onkyo could be dangerous for your speakers if driven hard. Good move. wink.gif
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post #19933 of 22403
8/25/12 at 6:42am
I ended up doing quite a bit more reading (when I should have been sleeping) and pulled the trigger on the amp. There are a number of threads on here about the XLS amps from Crown. Because of its circuit topology (Class D amp and switching power supply) it runs very cool and very quiet. If you looked in one you'd never know is was 215w/ch at 8ohm (probably guess more like 20w). I know Crown is a really good brand so I'm sure they have this thing down (oddly, we used to use Crown amps for testing automotive parts in an application that the amp was never designed to run, but it did it and never failed).

Yes, I was also driving my RF-7ii's hard. I kept a fan on the Oknyo because if I didn't you could hear the sound quality deteriorate as the amp got hot. I've had the amp go into thermal protection a few times too. All of that nonsense will now be over. I kind of wish I would have had the coin for an XPA-3 but for less than half the price I get power (slightly) on 2 channels and a brand I know. Without the stress of the mains on the Onkyo it should do a fair job of running the RC-64ii and my tiny surround speakers (though I hope to be upgrading the surrounds soon).

Now I just have to wait on the delivery truck.
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post #19934 of 22403
8/25/12 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post

I ended up doing quite a bit more reading (when I should have been sleeping) and pulled the trigger on the amp. .

Fwiw, here is a thread that I started from 6 years ago on the Klipsch Forum: http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/78634/779998.aspx#779998
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post #19935 of 22403
8/25/12 at 11:04am
Since the FL, FR, and center do most of the work in HT, would external amping just the FL and FR be recommended?

Also, anyone know if two Crown XLS 1000s could amp the FL, FR, and center or are they not made to just amp one channel?
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post #19936 of 22403
8/25/12 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

Since the FL, FR, and center do most of the work in HT, would external amping just the FL and FR be recommended?
Also, anyone know if two Crown XLS 1000s could amp the FL, FR, and center or are they not made to just amp one channel?

1) balance is what Auddyssey is for (well, I'll be using what my old Onkyo has, but it should work).

2) The XLS 1000 is a 2-channel amp

If it turns out I don't like the XLS I'll bridge it and turn it into a 1000w sub amp. The hard part will then be convincing my wife I need something else.
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post #19937 of 22403
8/25/12 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post

1) balance is what Auddyssey is for (well, I'll be using what my old Onkyo has, but it should work).
2) The XLS 1000 is a 2-channel amp
If it turns out I don't like the XLS I'll bridge it and turn it into a 1000w sub amp. The hard part will then be convincing my wife I need something else.

I know it is a 2-channel amp, but could just one channel be used?
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post #19938 of 22403
8/25/12 at 12:30pm
Funny that the XLS line I see on their web site is different. Is one obsolete?
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post #19939 of 22403
8/25/12 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

I know it is a 2-channel amp, but could just one channel be used?
Sure, you could even bridge it!
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post #19940 of 22403
8/25/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Funny that the XLS line I see on their web site is different. Is one obsolete?

This (http://www.crownaudio.com/usa/xls-drivecore.html) is what I think is being referred to...
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post #19941 of 22403
8/25/12 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Funny that the XLS line I see on their web site is different. Is one obsolete?

I bought an amp from this line:
http://www.crownaudio.com/usa/amplifiers/xls-drivecore.html
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post #19942 of 22403
8/25/12 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

Since the FL, FR, and center do most of the work in HT, would external amping just the FL and FR be recommended?
Also, anyone know if two Crown XLS 1000s could amp the FL, FR, and center or are they not made to just amp one channel?

My recommendation would be to step up to an XLS 1500 as, due to it's 6dB lower noise floor, I would expect it to be a more neutral sounding Amp.
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post #19943 of 22403
8/25/12 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

This (http://www.crownaudio.com/usa/xls-drivecore.html) is what I think is being referred to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post

I bought an amp from this line:
http://www.crownaudio.com/usa/amplifiers/xls-drivecore.html

Sweet, thanks! The XLS lineup brought up something else altogether.
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post #19944 of 22403
8/25/12 at 6:50pm
Pluses for the Crown XLS:
  1. Has RCA and balanced inputs.
  2. Has -20 dB, -10 dB and clip LEDs, so you have an idea of power output.
  3. Presumably has a fan, but presumably can be modded for a quiet one.
  4. Cheap.
  5. 2-ohms rated, something we can't say for Emo amps.
  6. EDIT: digital crossover lets you use one amp to feed a single 2-way speaker.

I like that list!
Edited by psgcdn - 8/26/12 at 7:48am
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post #19945 of 22403
8/25/12 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Pluses for the Crown XLS:
  1. Has RCA and balanced inputs.
  2. Has -20 dB, -10 dB and clip LEDs, so you have an idea of power output.
  3. Presumably has a fan, but presumably can be modded for a quiet one.
  4. Cheap.
  5. 2-ohms rated, something we can't say for Emo amps.
I like that list!
If I ever go active XO's then I will consider these amps but I'd need 9 of them eek.gif
I might just do that later down the road
Edited by Fastslappy - 8/25/12 at 7:44pm
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post #19946 of 22403
8/25/12 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post

1) balance is what Auddyssey is for (well, I'll be using what my old Onkyo has, but it should work).
2) The XLS 1000 is a 2-channel amp
If it turns out I don't like the XLS I'll bridge it and turn it into a 1000w sub amp. The hard part will then be convincing my wife I need something else.

Hopefully the XLS-1000 does a better job with 4 ohm 20hz than the XTi-1000. The XTi-1000 drops to around 90 watts per channel. Does not make a very good subwoofer amp. http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/690#post_13869426
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post #19947 of 22403
8/25/12 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post

I ended up doing quite a bit more reading (when I should have been sleeping) and pulled the trigger on the amp. There are a number of threads on here about the XLS amps from Crown. Because of its circuit topology (Class D amp and switching power supply) it runs very cool and very quiet. If you looked in one you'd never know is was 215w/ch at 8ohm (probably guess more like 20w). I know Crown is a really good brand so I'm sure they have this thing down (oddly, we used to use Crown amps for testing automotive parts in an application that the amp was never designed to run, but it did it and never failed).
Yes, I was also driving my RF-7ii's hard. I kept a fan on the Oknyo because if I didn't you could hear the sound quality deteriorate as the amp got hot. I've had the amp go into thermal protection a few times too. All of that nonsense will now be over. I kind of wish I would have had the coin for an XPA-3 but for less than half the price I get power (slightly) on 2 channels and a brand I know. Without the stress of the mains on the Onkyo it should do a fair job of running the RC-64ii and my tiny surround speakers (though I hope to be upgrading the surrounds soon).
Now I just have to wait on the delivery truck.

I'm interested to read your followup and how you like the Crown Amp with your 7's.
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post #19948 of 22403
8/26/12 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post

I ended up doing quite a bit more reading (when I should have been sleeping) and pulled the trigger on the amp. There are a number of threads on here about the XLS amps from Crown. Because of its circuit topology (Class D amp and switching power supply) it runs very cool and very quiet. If you looked in one you'd never know is was 215w/ch at 8ohm (probably guess more like 20w). I know Crown is a really good brand so I'm sure they have this thing down (oddly, we used to use Crown amps for testing automotive parts in an application that the amp was never designed to run, but it did it and never failed).
Yes, I was also driving my RF-7ii's hard. I kept a fan on the Oknyo because if I didn't you could hear the sound quality deteriorate as the amp got hot. I've had the amp go into thermal protection a few times too. All of that nonsense will now be over. I kind of wish I would have had the coin for an XPA-3 but for less than half the price I get power (slightly) on 2 channels and a brand I know. Without the stress of the mains on the Onkyo it should do a fair job of running the RC-64ii and my tiny surround speakers (though I hope to be upgrading the surrounds soon).
Now I just have to wait on the delivery truck.

Have you checked if your Oknyo will "play nice" with the Crown? http://www.crownaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3839

If so, how did you confirm so? I am interested in the Crown amp for my 7iis and want to know if my 4311's pre-outs are ready for a pro amp.
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post #19949 of 22403
8/26/12 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post


If I ever go active XO's then I will consider these amps but I'd need 9 of them eek.gif
I might just do that later down the road

Not a pro amp but a nice one...  in addition to my Crown's I have a dbx BX3.  It is configurable as a 2 or 3 or 4 channel amp.  I sometimes pull out the Crown's & put the dbx in and allow the single amp to run both speakers in a fully biamped situation.

 

At one time, I also entertained the idea of getting another BX3 so I'd have eight channels held inside of two chassis....but....  I keep stumbling into that XLR/RCA thing that I'm trying to get away from.

 

It's not a pro amp, it has a fan but it's worked great in my situation.  Also, kind of hard to find, the BX3 has a big (very bad) brother, the BX1.  I used to own one of those bad boys too...  same game, configurable as a 2,3,4 channel amp, NO fan as it's convection cooled.  It's also unbalanced inputs and is about 24" deep as it has handles not only on the front but on the rear as well. 

 

You can find the BX3's for sale at reasonable prices, especially if you compare it to buying a pair of stereo amps.

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post #19950 of 22403
8/26/12 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Hopefully the XLS-1000 does a better job with 4 ohm 20hz than the XTi-1000. The XTi-1000 drops to around 90 watts per channel. Does not make a very good subwoofer amp. http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/690#post_13869426
Yeah, but the issue seem pretty specific to that model. Other Crown amps tested well. Too bad we never saw an Emo amp tested in that thread.
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