Originally Posted by Nick n Skullsue
No doubt it's a fair point it could seem that way, that I "dont want to listen to people" but I was 100% open to hearing
about power options for the speakers I ordered. I don't see the value in me subscribing positively to those who say I
should change a plan that is in motion.
The definitive point I was after was will my speakers Ive bought be powered flawlessly or not with emotiva's
weaker amps. Answer was once addressed as yes. So when I hear the speakers, I'll make my decision whether
I'll go with my preferred UPA-200 path, or get the xpa-5 for the synergy, or re-evaluate on the speaker front
I'm sure I'll come back if I need some further attention to the question of how much better an RB-51ii would be
than the B-20.
Hi, Nick . . . I have no dog in the fight, and you have already ordered the Synergies . . .
Your best move, IMHO, is the Onkyo NR818 . . . I do not buy Onkyo, but it is the best bang for the buck with XT32 on board, and multi zones.
You only need external amps if your AVR is splitting power to a detriment. You will not have that issue on the 818 with B-20s. There is more than enough on the 818 to run a b-20 front stage and all of your surrounds. You will be wasting money on the extra external amps on the B-20s if you run them on the NR818.
When you ever upgrade your front stage to then an external amp or two might make a difference, but not on an 818 and B-20s. The B-20 is a great budget speaker, when buying rn masse on a budget. It is just a matter of buying an AVR that will run them all without a need for an external amp, and the 818 will give you all the headroom available in the B-20s.
Your next move, if you are ever dissatisfied with your B-20 front stage, is larger matched floor speakers and matched center channel. Depending then on what you buy, you made then want to open up the front stage with an external amp....even then, it depends on the front and center you buy.
Running two different AVRs (Pio 94TXH and now a Denon 4311ci) I never, NEVER, even remotely needed to run an external amp on the front stage running RF82s, RC62, RS52s, and RB61s. In that 7.1 setup, and living out in the country, I got the attention of my neighbors a half a mile away. :-). Without ever adding an external amp.
But, I changed out speakers in the Hat this years on the Denon 4311. I went to K-Horn fronts, Belle sides, La Scala rears, Heresy wides, and Heresy heights (with a Martin Logan Depth i sub, 3x8 powered woofers in one box). Ran it that way for six months. Finally pur an external amp on the front K-horns and opened up the front sound stage a little more.
The lesson is: if you start with a good AVR and you score a good number of strong budget speakers, you will not need an external amp. If you go to RB51s or RB61s, with a good AVR you will not need an external amp for the front stage. An external amp cannot open up speakers that, well, do not need that much power and are sufficiently run on a 7.x or 9.x setup.
Until you get up to higher end speakers which simply require more muscle to preform, there just is not value in an external amp. But when needed because of the size of the speaker, then an external amp can be worth the cash.
I am certainly into overkill, but not unless the cash I spend gets me something real. An external amp on an excellent AVR, like the Onkyo NR818, running some nice B-20s, well, you just will not get anything in return. You would just be wasting your money adding an external amp to a solid AVR to run B-20 fronts and center. The external amp would look pretty, but would add nothing to headroom....the NR818 will give you all the headroom you need to the lowend B-20s. An external amp probably would add distortion if you drove too much power to the B-20s.
The B-20s only have a 3/4" tweeter and one 5.25" woofer and a small box? And you are worrying about needing an external amp for headroom using them as fronts?!?!
Where's the sub? You know there is no bass in those bookshelves. They only go down to 62hz and are in a 8"x12.5" box . . . There will never be any bass, only modest mids and highs in the small woofer and undersized tweeter in a tiny box.
I recommend, since they are already on the way, hook you b-20s up to an Onkyo NR818, run the XT32, and see if you like it just the way it is . . . With a good sub. If you like it for HT, great! Who cares what anybody else think. Save the money spent on a pn external amp until you get real fronts and a real center channel, something beyond an RF82 and an RC62 which are not much more than a bunch of little .75" tweeters and 5.25" woofers screaming from all corners.
I though about playing totally nice in this post. But, the more I retread your disrespectful posts in response to people trying to give you some great advice, the more I though I would not let it pass. Some noobs might actually try to emulate your synergy B-20 plus external amps fiasco you have per-determined of getting mega sound from . . . Which will never happen . . . Synergy B-20s will never make powerful fronts because they are not powerful or speced out for power . . . They are bookshelves made for . . . Well quiet volumes on bookshelves in an office, not mega sound in HT. the B-20s can make a nice budget read surround for some.
So that no new person will be tricked into thinking this is a wise setup, I want to make it clear, using B-20s as fronts and center when you are wanting powerful, booming ht will never work. Using any external amp on a sufficient AVR would in every case be a waste of money if you are trying to use B-20s as fronts and centers in HT. Synergy B-20s are a fine budget bookshelf speaker choice, and might work for some as budget surrounds just dine.
The most important speakers in any HT setup are the fonts and center. Then comes and the sub for movie and music thump . . . Pick those first, overbuy them if you can. Then get a solid AVR capable of running them to start without an external amp. From there, save enough of your budget to buy surrounds (sides and/or rears) because they are the least important speakers since the extra movie sound effects and such come from them . . . Then upgrade as you go.
For those just getting not HT, do not duplicate Nick's folly or believe there is going to be a major return on his method. Go for the biggest, baddest fronts you can afford with a matching center as you can, and a solid, even preowned, avr. Then, until money comes available, buy cheap used bookshelves as surrounds until you can upgrade.
Main movie sounds come out of the front stage speakers, they need to be good. Bullets and bird chirps come out of the surrounds....so cheap bookshelves will suffice for surrounds but are sorely disappointing as fronts.
Before too long, you should be able to buy 9 Synergy B-20s in Australia pretty cheap, well less than the $200 a pair he bought 5 pair to use as frontstage and surround speakers, as if there are an equal amount of sound coming out of fronts and surrounds while watching watching a bluray. Perhaps you can get a $200 pair cheaper than the guy who is charging his brother $675 for the ones that cost him much less.
Whoever is reading, Nick's incalcitrance in listening to some good advice should be a lesson: don't ask a question on a forum of hobbiests if your ego is so fragile you must be right before you ask the question.
I have been saved so much money, shortened headaches, and in the end have such great results by listening to others advice on the forum. And I am still learning so much. But I have also learned there are guys who pretend to ask a question just to defend a dumb decision they are on course to make. 9 B-20s on external amps will work, but never produce amazing HT result. Reread the earlier posts offering Nick advice . . . Some pretty spot on, great advice, especially about the La Scalas and all of those saying to spend money on the right speakers first . . . There is always a used AVR that will work for a while until you get Dream one. If you want to do it wrong, follow anick's line of reasoning. B-20s are fine budget bookshelf speakers . . . They are not towers suitable for fronts in an HT you want to get 1000 s of hours of enjoyment. Stretch yourself on the front three speakers and you will not be disappointed.
And, if you could swing the Denon 3313ci, a few hundred more on Amazon, you would not be disappointed. There is AirPlay on the Denon, but Onkyo is setup ready for an AppleTV.
All the best in your final decisions.Edited by Rhetor - 9/8/12 at 3:48pm