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Klipsch owner thread - Page 763

post #22861 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

You can buy what you please but I'm telling you right now the RF62ii's will smoke them F30's as far as sound, clarity and dynamics.

There's no doubt the RF62 will smoke the F30, but hey it's worth a lot more, so thats expected.
What I'm doubting is if the RF-42/52 can beat the F30 with its dual 8" cones.
post #22862 of 35270
Great discussion guys! This is exactly what I was suspecting: your paying a lot more and you DO get some improvements, but just a tiny bit. ...and yes fancy looking gold-ish cones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Get the Synergy F30's. Synergy stuff is just older model Reference line anyways slightly modified for lower production cost.

Facts: Klipsch straight up LIES about it's specs. The specifications don't matter. I've owned Synergy stuff and Reference stuff. After audyssey or MCACC or whatever does it's EQ, there is very little if any difference. London Drugs has a listening room that allows you to do A/B tests for their different lineups. The RF82's and F-30's are right beside eachother. You can switch to and from those speakers, and others such as Tannoys while using the same receiver and settings. Can I hear a difference ? Yes. Slightly, on the higher frequencies, however I wouldn't say one is more pleasing than the other, just different.

Opinion: Not enough difference in quality to justify the price. The Reference stuff does look slightly better. Also keep in mind, the Reference stuff is vented at the rear, Synergy at the front. If you want to put the speakers right at the wall, the Synergy might make more sense.

There is no way the RF-42 is going to compete with the F-30 in SPL, efficiency, mid-bass etc. The crossover components and tweeter are likely better on the RF42s.

I am not biased as I have owned the Synergy setup and Currently own Reference stuff.

Thanks for your comment. So even as a RF owner you feel the difference isn't that big. In that case would you still go for the RF? like the RF52? The RF62 is in a totally different level in price i think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

If someone isn't going to at least get RF-62's, there's no reason to go with the reference line over the F-30 of the Synergy line. I have owned both and I still do own both and I don't think the RF-42 or the RF-52 holds up well against the F-30.

Totally agree, if you go reference you have to go atleast RF-62, 63, 82 or 83 to hear more noticeable difference. But at that point it's expensive. I have doubts that a rf-42 or 52 will be any better. Even starting to think they will have less impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

^ I agree with you mostly. It's 90% mental. The main thing I got out of my switch to the Reference line was a set of lovely copper covered drivers which is something I had always wanted. Don't get me wrong, my RF-62ii's are slightly better than my F-30's but not by much.

It's definitely mental. I once bough a $5000 Sony VAIO Z limited laptop, sure it was fast and very few people had it. But for less than half I could get something that did the same thing. It was all mental. I'm thinking most people that get a reference, will say that the day is night and day purely because 1.its a mental thing. 2.people tend to like and recommend the speakers they have, especially when it's more expensive. Sure I can buy an RF-62, but that's not the point. If it's not that much of a difference I rather save the money.
post #22863 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

If someone isn't going to at least get RF-62's, there's no reason to go with the reference line over the F-30 of the Synergy line. I have owned both and I still do own both and I don't think the RF-42 or the RF-52 holds up well against the F-30.

You've owned both? As in F-30 and the RF-62?
Can you share a more details...as in the two speakers you own? and how they stack up?
post #22864 of 35270
Seems to me your questions have been answered. 62s are not an option for you. So the question is 52 or F30. Overall it seems the F30 is your best bet. Especially at that price. Now you need a sub.
post #22865 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

Totally agree, if you go reference you have to go atleast RF-62, 63, 82 or 83 to hear more noticeable difference....

Fwiw, the RF-83s have been discontinued for quite some time.
post #22866 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

Totally agree, if you go reference you have to go atleast RF-62, 63, 82 or 83 to hear more noticeable difference....

Fwiw, the RF-83s have been discontinued for quite some time.

Not from MY dealer [C^*+=%'s List] LoL!
post #22867 of 35270
Not a comparison but I just got a used pair of the 52's and was pleasantly surprised with the bass output. Just moved to downtown Chicago so the F-30 size would be too large.
post #22868 of 35270
This dicussion is important as it shows more expensive isnt alway better or substantially better...especially not for the price. I was really thinking that that tiny 42 would be day and night ahead of the f30. Its tweeter might be a tad better though.

Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note II
post #22869 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

This dicussion is important as it shows more expensive isnt alway better or substantially better...especially not for the price.

How profound. smile.gif My guess is that not many folks actually make the effort to go and hear different speakers and base their opinion on what they read on the internet....That said, there is a lot of great information to be found, but realize for subjective questions a person will lean toward the answer they want to hear (sic) and the truth of it is everyone experiences sound differently--then there is the whole psychology thing. When you factor in Budget and how often a person wants to upgrade then that should be factored in as well.

My Recommendation: Decide on a Budget (unless you are really rich) and then work backwards from there.
post #22870 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

How profound. smile.gif My guess is that not many folks actually make the effort to go and hear different speakers and base their opinion on what they read on the internet....That said, there is a lot of great information to be found, but realize for subjective questions a person will lean toward the answer they want to hear (sic) and the truth of it is everyone experiences sound differently--then there is the whole psychology thing. When you factor in Budget and how often a person wants to upgrade then that should be factored in as well.

My Recommendation: Decide on a Budget (unless you are really rich) and then work backwards from there.


+1
post #22871 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

How profound. smile.gif My guess is that not many folks actually make the effort to go and hear different speakers and base their opinion on what they read on the internet....That said, there is a lot of great information to be found, but realize for subjective questions a person will lean toward the answer they want to hear (sic) and the truth of it is everyone experiences sound differently--then there is the whole psychology thing. When you factor in Budget and how often a person wants to upgrade then that should be factored in as well.

My Recommendation: Decide on a Budget (unless you are really rich) and then work backwards from there.

First of all you can keep your sarcasm to yourself. I'm just asking the opinion of friendly and helpful opinions of people that have been using klipsch here longer than I have.

Secondly, many are indicating that that the difference isn't that great. I have bought many expensive products, but it's not because you can you should. I'm not going to overpay when I can get similar performance for less. If you feel happy with your gold cones great for you. Ultimately I will go and listen and reach to my conclusion, but I think if many have said that an F-30 can beat an RF-42/52 and couldnt hear a difference with the RF-82. That's says something.

And yes, there is a psychology in everything. Even the psychology of I bought tha more expensive speaker so it must be better, better specs on paper. When in real life the differences aren't night and day.
post #22872 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

First of all you can keep your sarcasm to yourself. I'm just asking the opinion of friendly and helpful opinions of people that have been using klipsch here longer than I have.

Secondly, many are indicating that that the difference isn't that great. I have bought many expensive products, but it's not because you can you should. I'm not going to overpay when I can get similar performance for less. If you feel happy with your gold cones great for you. Ultimately I will go and listen and reach to my conclusion, but I think if many have said that an F-30 can beat an RF-42/52 and couldnt hear a difference with the RF-82. That's says something.

And yes, there is a psychology in everything. Even the psychology of I bought tha more expensive speaker so it must be better, better specs on paper. When in real life the differences aren't night and day.
Do you like Bose?
post #22873 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

First of all you can keep your sarcasm to yourself. I'm just asking the opinion of friendly and helpful opinions of people that have been using klipsch here longer than I have...

I am sorry you were offended but I wasn't being sarcastic. I also have done my share of helping people on this thread and will leave you with my stated opinion. Seriously, Good Luck and I hope you find what you like.
post #22874 of 35270
Who said they couldnt hear the difference between an F30 and an RF82?
post #22875 of 35270
does anyone know of anyone in Kansas City with the thx ultra speakers?
post #22876 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

First of all you can keep your sarcasm to yourself. I'm just asking the opinion of friendly and helpful opinions of people that have been using klipsch here longer than I have.

Secondly, many are indicating that that the difference isn't that great. I have bought many expensive products, but it's not because you can you should. I'm not going to overpay when I can get similar performance for less. If you feel happy with your gold cones great for you. Ultimately I will go and listen and reach to my conclusion, but I think if many have said that an F-30 can beat an RF-42/52 and couldnt hear a difference with the RF-82. That's says something.

And yes, there is a psychology in everything. Even the psychology of I bought tha more expensive speaker so it must be better, better specs on paper. When in real life the differences aren't night and day.

Zen is one of the least likely here to be in any way sarcastic. His opinions have always been insightful and helpful -- which is what I took this one to be as well.

On to the bigger discussion... I have RF-83's and an RC-64 I for my front three. Was the increase in price I paid worth the better specs and sound for me? I'd say yes. You might think differently because you hear differently, perceive value differently and likely have a different budget too. That doesn't make either of us wrong. In addition, everyone will likely defend whatever choice they make. it's subjective anyway and who knows better than you regarding what you think?

At least partially, that's what Zen was saying.
post #22877 of 35270
I don't have the same knowledge that some of you have but I sold both synergy and reference series for 5 years! I also have owned both, to me my RB81 and RB 61 sound much better then my F 20s and B 20s!
post #22878 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by e84cooper View Post

I don't have the same knowledge that some of you have but I sold both synergy and reference series for 5 years! I also have owned both, to me my RB81 and RB 61 sound much better then my F 20s and B 20s!
If you sold them both for 5 years then what is your general opinion of the 2 series as a whole? Does the Reference line sound much better than the Synergy line?
post #22879 of 35270
one point that some here miss is that the diaphragms in the reference line is wildly different from the F-30 & alike line the RF line has a TI driver while the F-30 line has a AL driver .
AL diaphragms break down after awhile so they have a "shelf life" where the TI last longer than a person will live .
one is a soft metal where as TI is one of the hardest metals . Food for thought smile.gif
post #22880 of 35270
OK So I would more likely want to be buried with the Reference series.
post #22881 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

AL diaphragms break down after awhile so they have a "shelf life" where the TI last longer than a person will live . one is a soft metal where as TI is one of the hardest metals . Food for thought smile.gif
May I know how long is the life of Al diaphragm in the Synergy series? As a peasant, I wish my Synergy speakers will last at least 30 years.
post #22882 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by lflorack View Post

Zen is one of the least likely here to be in any way sarcastic. His opinions have always been insightful and helpful -- which is what I took this one to be as well.

On to the bigger discussion... I have RF-83's and an RC-64 I for my front three. Was the increase in price I paid worth the better specs and sound for me? I'd say yes. You might think differently because you hear differently, perceive value differently and likely have a different budget too. That doesn't make either of us wrong. In addition, everyone will likely defend whatever choice they make. it's subjective anyway and who knows better than you regarding what you think?

At least partially, that's what Zen was saying.

I saw the pics of your setup. what are you using as rears? Are those rsx sats? Do they work well with those large RF-83?
post #22883 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

Thanks for your comment. So even as a RF owner you feel the difference isn't that big. In that case would you still go for the RF? like the RF52? The RF62 is in a totally different level in price i think.

If I was starting from scratch, and I wanted Klipsch, I would be hunting for 3 used Klipsch Heresey speakers, which could be found within your budget.

If I didn't care about looks at all, such as placing speakers behind a screen, I would build 3 SEOS Waveguide DIY kits.

If I had the choice between RF62 II's or F-30's, I would go with the RF-62 II's, however I would choose the F-30's over the RF 52 II's.

I would choose the RF 52 II's over the F-20's.


These days though, I always dream of true high efficiency speakers, not the full range stuff. Heresey speakers all the way!
post #22884 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

Thanks for your comment. So even as a RF owner you feel the difference isn't that big. In that case would you still go for the RF? like the RF52? The RF62 is in a totally different level in price i think.

If I was starting from scratch, and I wanted Klipsch, I would be hunting for 3 used Klipsch Heresey speakers, which could be found within your budget.

If I didn't care about looks at all, such as placing speakers behind a screen, I would build 3 SEOS Waveguide DIY kits.

If I had the choice between RF62 II's or F-30's, I would go with the RF-62 II's, however I would choose the F-30's over the RF 52 II's.

I would choose the RF 52 II's over the F-20's.


These days though, I always dream of true high efficiency speakers, not the full range stuff. Heresey speakers all the way!

Stay away from Heresy, they are NO good. ;-)
post #22885 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

I saw the pics of your setup. what are you using as rears? Are those rsx sats? Do they work well with those large RF-83?

Yup. My rears are RSX-5's. The sides are RVX-54's. When I started with Klipsch for speakers, the RSX-5's were actually my fronts.with an RVx-42 for a center. Then I moved the RSX-5's to the sides when I bought the RVX-54's for the fronts. Eventually, I got the RF-83's for fronts, RC-64 for the center and moved the RVX-54's to the sides and RSX-5's to the rears. (The RVx-42 and old sub went to my son.) So the system got built a bit at a time with better speakers each step going to the front and old fronts moving rearward smile.gif

Anyway, to answer your question, yes the RSX-5's seem to work well as rears for the 7.1 setup. They really don't carry a lot of sound anyway and seem to fine.
Edited by lflorack - 6/22/13 at 5:44am
post #22886 of 35270
Hey guys, I just got a pair of VS14 surrounds (very similar to the KS14) and would like a little advice on how to ceiling mount. They have one keyhole on back but unless your flush mounting on a wall, which I am not, I don't see a good way how to do this. They weigh 7lbs a piece and I have a 9' basement ceiling that I need to mount them on and angle down to the seating area. Also, is it possible to remove the grills? They are "fixed" but I love the look of klipsch with the grills off. I've gotten a little beasty with trying to pry them off and they are on pretty good - don't want to damage the speaker. Thanks,

-Kevin
post #22887 of 35270
Quote:
Originally Posted by e84cooper View Post

I don't have the same knowledge that some of you have but I sold both synergy and reference series for 5 years! I also have owned both, to me my RB81 and RB 61 sound much better then my F 20s and B 20s!

I have owned both the RB81's and the RF82's. It all depends on how you use them.

For 2ch music, book shelf speakers like RB81's used with a sub that is EQ-ed using a stand alone sub-EQ like Antomode 8033 may sound better than RF82 used as full range for 2ch music without any correction just due to the obvious reason that the uncorrected bass in RF82 may sound boomy compared to a combination of RB81 crossed at 80 or 90Hz and a corrected sub. I dont like to use Audyssey for 2ch music as I prefer a laid back sound for music. So I use the manual EQ on my Denon 3310 to cut down the mid range and use Antimode to correct the sub. For HT and cable I use Audyssey. There is a front by pass option in Audysey but I never liked it. I believe Audyssey MultEQ XT just does not have enough filters to do a good job of full range EQ. XT32 is getting cheaper but the general opinion is that the XT32 implementation in the cheaper AVR's isnt as good as that in higher end AVR's. Even if XT32 becomes more common place, since Audyssey does not allow me to add manual EQ (at least in the non-pro versions), it is out of the question for 2ch listening. There are laid back speakers like B&W, Dynaudio, Vienna Acoustics, Magnepan etc. but they are also low efficiency speakers and need a ton of power compared to Klipsch. That is the main reason I sold my Magnepans. So I prefer using Klipsch with the mid range turned down. Antimode 8033 is my choice for 2ch bass EQing. I guess the new Antimode may allow manual EQ but it is like $1200 and I have to buy it from Europe. I prefer to buy a product that is available in US with a good return policy.

No matter how much you pay for a full range speaker, it is going to sound boomy if used without correcting the bass. Most of the time the bass in HT is focused on certain frequencies like for the explosions. But it is not so in 2ch music. You also dont care much about depth of the sound stage for HT. If you listen to 2ch music on the Magnepans like the MG1.7 or even the MG12 (which I have owned) in a long room with a lot of space behind speakers, you will know what kind of sound stage you are missing compared to speakers placed flat against the wall. No I am not saying that the speakers should be placed so that they simulate a stage.

It is all subjective. What sounds great in one room may sound lousy in another due to room effects which are more important than just the speaker size or brand. And a FLAT EQ-ed response is not always the preferred response for 2ch music for everyone. So if I have to buy new speakers, I will just use all the opinions I read as a guideline but will make the decision only after listening to the speakers.

BTW I have owned different speakers brands and types and finally I decided to stick with the old Klipsch KG and Legend series as they gave me the best bang for the buck for music and HT. If I move to a house with a larger living room, I would go back to the Magnepans for 2ch music. The MG1.7 are just under $2000 and there is probably nothing else that can beat the sound stage that the MG1.7 throws in that price range. Only issue is that they need a large room and tons of power which you just cant get using an AVR as a pre-pro no matter how powerful the amp is as the AVR just does not have enough pre-out voltage to get more juice out of the more powerful amps like WIRED 4 SOUND which also happen to have a much higher sensitivity like 2.8V.

Anyway...out of topic smile.gif
post #22888 of 35270
If you're running Audyssey before comparing speakers, aren't you just hearing the results of Audyssey, rather than the true differences between the speakers? Wouldn't Audyssey EQ them to sound the same? So I wouldn't expect you would hear much difference between the different Klipsch model speakers after running Audyssey.
post #22889 of 35270
Looking for advice. I have a line on a pair of RF-25s that I would use a my front mains in my home theater setup. The would replace the RB-25s I have there now. The rest of the system is RC-25, RS-42 surrounds and an RW-12d.

Would it be worthwhile to replace the RB setup I have now? Is the 25 series dramatically inferior to the current 62 / 52 series?
Edited by miuser - 6/22/13 at 3:28pm
post #22890 of 35270
guys - i own both Synergy F-30 and RF-52II.

I got a great deal on F-30 from newegg couple of years ago and i thought they were awesome for the price. They are quite big in size

Couple of months ago I got RF-52II purely to match the center I had (RC-52)

In my opinion, RF-52II has done better (movies only) than F-30. RF-52 is crisp and clear compared to F-30

My AVR is pioneer 1222-k and use F-30 has Front Wide (i know it doesn't do anything great); but can't have any other 7.1 set up with space constraints
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