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Klipsch owner thread - Page 830

post #24871 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

There is a reason for the heavy toe in with constant directivity speakers: http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

Toe-In -- DOPE from HOPE.pdf 200k .pdf file

Here it is! smile.gif

Thanks for the articles. Very nice reading. I am going to try 45 degree toed in.
post #24872 of 35256
Forum back up
post #24873 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

There is a Link to the Forum, won't open, but it is there.
it wasn't there just after I got the email announcing the All New website .
went over the site map 1st thing smile.gif
seems the Cornwall 1 history is /been rewrote smile.gif again !
post #24874 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post


I can't even log onto the Forum with my old link or the new link...

going thru my bookmarks I never lost access at all & still stayed logged in the whole day now , just retried when I seen your post Zen & all is fine thru a bookmark smile.gif
post #24875 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post


Thanks for the articles. Very nice reading. I am going to try 45 degree toed in.
a lot of the 45 degree issue is also dependent on WIDE apart your speakers are as well
the important issue is reducing the side walls of the room from acting as a reflection point
So what I'm saying is their are a lot of factors that go into any toe in & how your room is , where your seating is , how wide of a sweet spot you want
All that considered it is really a trail & error that each person has to do for all variables of width of room , how wide the mains sit, , deep of seating ,horn type , how wide a sweet spot is desired ,reflectivity of the side walls .
1st off understand how each different horn's dispersal pattern actually is or at least understand Your horns dispersal pattern smile.gif Before you start ! wink.gif
post #24876 of 35256
^^ Understood. Based on what you say and the articles, I believe 45 degree might be it for me. Of course, only experimenting can tell. My room is 14x19', main listening position is about 11' from the front of the center speaker. My LR speakers spread out about 10' from each other and they are sitting real close to side walls. I will need to rerun Audessey after this ~45 degree toe in to see if it is any better.
Less toe:


More toe:
post #24877 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ Understood. Based on what you say and the articles, I believe 45 degree might be it for me. Of course, only experimenting can tell. My room is 14x19', main listening position is about 11' from the front of the center speaker. My LR speakers spread out about 10' from each other and they are sitting real close to side walls. I will need to rerun Audessey after this ~45 degree toe in to see if it is any better.
Less toe:


More toe:
I use the tack of being able to see all the way down the throats of the horns to where I can see the whole disk of the bug screen from my MLP
I have a wide room & the side walls are so that they don't reflect at all one side is floor to ceiling bookshelves full of books & nicknacks the other is heavy dual curtain .
skinny & deep rooms are problematic rooms wink.gif
post #24878 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

I recently toed them in to a full 45 degrees and really like what I am hearing. Imaging and stage have improved a lot. I read an article from PWK who recommened to toe-in Klipsch speakers at 45 degrees. Does anyone else toe-in that much?

A few weeks ago, several of us posted about this, because I had just tried it, and was astounded at the difference it made. I'd had my SF-3 towers pointed directly at my MLP for several weeks, and had ascertained that if I shifted my head by more than a few inches, the stereo imaging was ruined... which meant that anyone sitting beside me was doomed to a very unbalanced audio experience.

I'd read the PWK piece, and one other one:

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup%20of%20WG%20Speakers.pdf

...so I gave it a try. After toeing mine in at about 45 degrees, it's now possible to sit comfortably on either side of me at my MLP, and the audio imaging remains perfect.

Obviously, as Fastslappy and that amazing Pi Speakers article point out, there are many contributing and conflicting factors involved -- speaker directionality being primary -- so as Slappy suggests, the best thing to do is try it for yourself.
post #24879 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post

A few weeks ago, several of us posted about this, because I had just tried it, and was astounded at the difference it made. I'd had my SF-3 towers pointed directly at my MLP for several weeks, and had ascertained that if I shifted my head by more than a few inches, the stereo imaging was ruined... which meant that anyone sitting beside me was doomed to a very unbalanced audio experience.

I'd read the PWK piece, and one other one:

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup%20of%20WG%20Speakers.pdf

...so I gave it a try. After toeing mine in at about 45 degrees, it's now possible to sit comfortably on either side of me at my MLP, and the audio imaging remains .
glad to hear. Did you rerun auto calibration? I have not had time to listen to mine after toeing them in nor rerun Audessey calibration.
post #24880 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

glad to hear. Did you rerun auto calibration? I have not had time to listen to mine after toeing them in nor rerun Audessey calibration.

Nah. I've been using Yamaha AVRs for years now -- upgraded to an RX-A2010 in January -- but I've never once even tried using their YPAO function. After recently adding an SVS SB12 sub to my setup (and turning my old KSW-12 off), I'm thinking of getting a UMIK-1, and the REW software... but so far, my ears have served me fairly well.

EDIT:

I think a little further clarification about the involved angles (and distances) in my setup is in order.

As I stated, my towers were originally pointed straight at my MLP. In my situation, that meant that the two speakers and my MLP formed an almost perfect equilateral triangle... so the fronts were toed in at a 60-degree angle to the plane of the TV screen.

They are now toed in at a 45-degree angle to the plane of the TV, meaning that in my room, where my MLP is 8.5 feet from the center of the TV screen, my right speaker is aimed at a point that is four feet to the left of my head, and the left speaker is aimed at a point that is four feet to the right of my head.

Again, the resultant broadening of the sound stage -- with no loss of audio clarity whatsoever -- is phenomenal.
Edited by B 26354 - 8/16/13 at 4:29pm
post #24881 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post

I'd read the PWK piece, and one other one:

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup%20of%20WG%20Speakers.pdf
.
another great article. It does make sense. Reading the end of this article makes me want to raise my center up to the bottom edge of my screen so that its horn is about the same height as my LR horns. Thought? Thanks.
Edited by Cowboys - 8/16/13 at 4:20pm
post #24882 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

another great article. It does make sense. Reading the end of this article makes me want to raise my center up to the bottom edge of my screen so that its horn is about the same height as my LR horns. Thought? Thanks.

Yeah... I really liked that article. It makes the whole point completely obvious.

As far as raising the center speaker, I completely agree. Often though, that's easier said than done... which is why a lot of folks try to angle the center up, so it's pointing right at you.

A further thought, though, is that it depends on where the emphasis of your listening lies.

I love film, so it's nice to have a great center speaker, for the dialogue. My main listening emphasis is music, though; primarily Jazz and Classical, but a fair amount of "Popular" as well. The point being, most of my "critical" listening is two-channel with a subwoofer... so more often than not, the center speaker in my system (an absolutely wonderful Klipsch RC-3 II) is unused.
Edited by B 26354 - 8/16/13 at 4:40pm
post #24883 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

another great article. It does make sense. Reading the end of this article makes me want to raise my center up to the bottom edge of my screen so that its horn is about the same height as my LR horns. Thought? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post

Yeah... I really liked that article. It makes the whole point completely obvious.

As far as raising the center speaker, I completely agree. Often though, that's easier said than done... which is why a lot of folks try to angle the center up, so it's pointing right at you.
center speaker placement
Best ; on the same horizontal plane as the mains mid horn
Better ; angled up so you can see the horns throat & the whole bug screen disk when seated
Worst ; sitting in a entertainment center's shelf aimed straight out

mine is 1 foot below that horzi plane & slightly angled up
Just One inch up of angle has dramatically improved understanding hushed voices in movies wink.gif
post #24884 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post


As far as raising the center speaker, I completely agree. Often though, that's easier said than done... which is why a lot of folks try to angle the center up, so it's pointing right at you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post


center speaker placement
Best ; on the same horizontal plane as the mains mid horn
Better ; angled up so you can see the horns throat & the whole bug screen disk when wink.gif

This brings up the old school vs new school Center channel design.

The last thing we are upgrading in our Library Home Theater is the TV...Right now my Front Soundstage is seamless with my Center Channel sitting on top of a 65" RPTV tilted towards my LP. Unfortunately the TV is a massive paper weight and I have a 42" Plasma sitting it front of it that will eventually go in the bedroom and will get a 65" Plasma or LED to replace it.

I like having the center channel up high, as well as the positioning screws on the RC-7 is in the back so it points down--When I get the new TV I will have a dilemma but will probably built a shelf above it and put my components below. Right now everything is on top of the tv which is good for my AVRs airflow.
post #24885 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnnt29 View Post

Guys are the kg5.5 any good? there is a pair listed locally for $150.00. I thought they might be nice to pick up if they are in good shape. Please let me know your opinions. Thanks JT

Yes they are great speakers. Ive owned mine since new (1999) and they still sound as good as the day I bought them. I was a wild young man when I bought these and they can go loud as I found out. All the while they didnt distort and are really dynamic for movies. Sound even better with Crites titanium tweeters. At that price a great buy.
post #24886 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Forum back up

I left the site loaded on my iPad when I left for work early this morning . . . Did not get back on until about 6:30 pm . . . Seamless and did not notice a difference, even in appearance.

Is the new site supposed to now look different?

Edit: Never mind, oops, I found it. Found the forum link later in the first page . . . Too bad they did not keep it at the top. Voxx International marketing department looking to downplay the pre-owned market . . . was inevitable.
Edited by Rhetor - 8/16/13 at 6:16pm
post #24887 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

Afaik on the Klipsch forum in the huge Epic CF thread Bob said that they are doing the crossovers for them but it would only be necessary if they are broken.

Here are pictures of my Epic CF3 V1. smile.gif

I recently toed them in to a full 45 degrees and really like what I am hearing. Imaging and stage have improved a lot. I read an article from PWK who recommened to toe-in Klipsch speakers at 45 degrees. Does anyone else toe-in that much?





Thats very interesting. Nice room! What is the dispersion pattern on the RF-7IIs? Do you think this will have the same effect? Because I did have my horns pointing at my sweet spot so that I was looking down their throats but I saw some advice to actually lessen the toe in a little...I did and my soundstage and overall sound got better....So is it possible for even better sound with the 45 degree toe in? I was just wondering what you guys think before I try it.
post #24888 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

As long as I can see the screen...lol

Lol yeah that will help. I still wish you could toe them in. Nonetheless after calibration they will probably still give great sound!
post #24889 of 35256
So i got the back off and this is whats inside.....

K33-E
K55-V
K77-M
and type B crossover




post #24890 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

another great article. It does make sense. Reading the end of this article makes me want to raise my center up to the bottom edge of my screen so that its horn is about the same height as my LR horns. Thought? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post

Yeah... I really liked that article. It makes the whole point completely obvious.

As far as raising the center speaker, I completely agree. Often though, that's easier said than done... which is why a lot of folks try to angle the center up, so it's pointing right at you.
center speaker placement
Best ; on the same horizontal plane as the mains mid horn
Better ; angled up so you can see the horns throat & the whole bug screen disk when seated
Worst ; sitting in a entertainment center's shelf aimed straight out

mine is 1 foot below that horzi plane & slightly angled up
Just One inch up of angle has dramatically improved understanding hushed voices in movies wink.gif

Works Just Fine: Above the Screen
post #24891 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

So i got the back off and this is whats inside.....

K33-E
K55-V
K77-M
and type B crossover





Wow those are immaculate.....someone tipped off the rat you were coming in!
post #24892 of 35256
Well....I guess 4 out of 6 speakers showed up today (52 Reference series bundle). I received everything except for the towers. frown.gif The pair of RS-52ii's look bigger in person than when i did the measuring, which isn't a bad thing I guess (someone else may think differently when she gets home from work)

Because my room is shaped funny, I'm having a hard time deciding where to put the RS-52's, and I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.

I have two Options:

Option #1: Shown with the Red blobs

or

Option #2: Shown with the Blue blobs

Thanks!

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
post #24893 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

So i got the back off and this is whats inside.....

K33-E
K55-V
K77-M
and type B crossover




those old oil caps need replacing . by now they are way outta spec & will start leaking soon & they have PCB's in them very Toxic & are hazardous waste smile.gif I sold mine & replaced with Crites new crossover that I'm now selling
post #24894 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver2002 View Post

Well....I guess 4 out of 6 speakers showed up today (52 Reference series bundle). I received everything except for the towers. frown.gif The pair of RS-52ii's look bigger in person than when i did the measuring, which isn't a bad thing I guess (someone else may think differently when she gets home from work)

Because my room is shaped funny, I'm having a hard time deciding where to put the RS-52's, and I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.

I have two Options:

Option #1: Shown with the Red blobs

or

Option #2: Shown with the Blue blobs

Thanks!

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

OT, but what program did you use to draw that? I'm looking for a decent program. I just downloaded sketch up but not sure if its good or not.
post #24895 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjennings2510 View Post

Thats very interesting. Nice room! What is the dispersion pattern on the RF-7IIs? Do you think this will have the same effect? Because I did have my horns pointing at my sweet spot so that I was looking down their throats but I saw some advice to actually lessen the toe in a little...I did and my soundstage and overall sound got better....So is it possible for even better sound with the 45 degree toe in? I was just wondering what you guys think before I try it.

Nima's post, which you quoted, is #24849.

More than half of the forty posts that follow it, are answers to the question.
post #24896 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ72 View Post

Yes they are great speakers. Ive owned mine since new (1999) and they still sound as good as the day I bought them. I was a wild young man when I bought these and they can go loud as I found out. All the while they didnt distort and are really dynamic for movies. Sound even better with Crites titanium tweeters. At that prices a great buy.

Thank you, that is the kind of feedback I was looking for.. I sent the guy two emails, but he hasn't responded yet.
post #24897 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post

Nima's post, which you quoted, is #24849.

More than half of the forty posts that follow it, are answers to the question.


Yes but my main question was this...what is the dispersion pattern of the horns in the 7s? I was wondering because as stated going the opposite way (less toe in) actually helped the sound.....Was just trying to get feedback before a tried it and recalibrated everything etc. Nonetheless I found the answer. tried it. Liked it...I know others had reported their findings in the links posted as interesting. I also found them very interesting but likewise no one had tried with Reference speakers and since the horns are different I just thought I would ask....Same concept yes...but different design, different dispersion etc so I wasn't sure how that would affect the 7s. I didn't realize that 20+ posts were answers to those questions.....sorry for the inconvenience

For the other RF owners out there. Yes it helped the stereo imaging dramatically....almost like running phantom surrounds now in 2 channel mode

So I'll take my experimentation to the rears now. Will point my tower surrounds at 45 degree toe in and see what happens
Edited by jjennings2510 - 8/16/13 at 7:44pm
post #24898 of 35256
I toe my RF-7 II's in too, though I don't think it's quite 45 degrees... I agree it helps with imaging.
post #24899 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

OT, but what program did you use to draw that? I'm looking for a decent program. I just downloaded sketch up but not sure if its good or not.

I used Microsoft Visio
post #24900 of 35256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

those old oil caps need replacing . by now they are way outta spec & will start leaking soon & they have PCB's in them very Toxic & are hazardous waste smile.gif I sold mine & replaced with Crites new crossover that I'm now selling


Send me a pm on how much your selling them for.
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