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Klipsch owner thread - Page 910

post #27271 of 35269
Odd question for everyone. I have a pair of B20's sitting around. I currently have my mains bi-amped. Would I gain anything if I took a wire pair from each main and hooked up the B20's? I Would set the B20's ontop of my mains. Any thoughts?
post #27272 of 35269
dprice, I don't think that would add any benefit to your system. Adding multiple speakers to a single channel causes a lower Ohm load resulting in higher demand from your amp and your amp will run hotter.
post #27273 of 35269
Thank you for the advice advice youthman. Love the pictures!
post #27274 of 35269
You are welcome and thanks.
post #27275 of 35269
Love weather like now, bc after I turn off all the refrigerated air, I can hear much more detail at much less volume.

Listening to Patriotic Music & reading General Joseph E. Johnston A Different Valor.

Lots of horns in that old music from the '60's; sounds very smooth on all those Heresy II horns.
post #27276 of 35269
Amy Unger:

10/17 - Update: The migration/conversion process has taken much longer than anticipated, mainly due to the large amount of data contained in post attachments that were posted by "Youthman". The good news is, as of this morning, all relevant data has been migrated, and we are now in the configuration stages of the new forums. The new forums should be up relatively soon. We appreciate your continued patience.
post #27277 of 35269
It's officially my fault. Hahaha. Love it Amy. smile.gif

You guys rock and we are all just grateful for Klipsch providing a community for us to be a part of.
post #27278 of 35269
I am losing sleep just thinking about getting my new babies in the HT! Youth may have a second...or third career as a photographer. Fantastic!!



The RF-3ii's, RC-3ii, and S-1's are gone.
Replacing them with RF-7ii's (WhoooHoooo!) RC-7, and RS-35's. I already have a set of RS-35's for the sides so I will have two pair for surround and rear.
Here is the before:



The during is actually kinda pitiful....I can't wait to pick up the new toys and take the AFTER shot...

Edited by shaun.ivy@adtran - 10/17/13 at 9:28am
post #27279 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasdom View Post

Amy Unger:

10/17 - Update: The migration/conversion process has taken much longer than anticipated, mainly due to the large amount of data contained in post attachments that were posted by "Youthman". The good news is, as of this morning, all relevant data has been migrated, and we are now in the configuration stages of the new forums. The new forums should be up relatively soon. We appreciate your continued patience.

awesome... I wrote her a day or two ago and got a similar message.
post #27280 of 35269
so I finally mounted up the RS-52 (I was luck that there was a stud right in the mounting spot so I just used a long screw). Unfortunately I couldn't tilt them down, so I hear less from them directly - although they blend in really well. I guess its a tradeoff.

Anyway, after getting everything up I ran audyssey. I'm pretty disappointed - it seems to have made my sound worse. For one thing, it turned the sub wayyyy down. Maybe I just got too used to house shaking bass, but it was way too subtle after the calibration.

More concerning is the fact that the sound is muddier now. It seems much less balanced and just doesn't fill the room the same way. It also set my fronts to Large, center and surrounds to small (crossing over at 60 and 40 respectively).

I will probably run it again and see what happens but I'm disappointed after all the hype that the calibration sounded worse than my own setup. The receiver is a denon 2113 fyi.
post #27281 of 35269
Audussey almost always sets fronts and center to large unless they are extremely small speakers. You have to go in and change everything back to 80hz for a starting point and go from there. I used to always do 80 but after buying a calibration setup and seeing full sweeps in my room I seen that my thx setup does better cutoff at 100 hz and my subs play great up to 100hz. So that's with my setup what works best. And about the sub if you've had that way high before well then a calibrated flat setup is of course going to be underwhelming. But only at first. Or at least to me. You can come to my house and I assure you that my 4 18's which are calibrated flat are not underwhelming at all.
post #27282 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappydue View Post

Audussey almost always sets fronts and center to large unless they are extremely small speakers. You have to go in and change everything back to 80hz for a starting point and go from there. I used to always do 80 but after buying a calibration setup and seeing full sweeps in my room I seen that my thx setup does better cutoff at 100 hz and my subs play great up to 100hz. So that's with my setup what works best. And about the sub if you've had that way high before well then a calibrated flat setup is of course going to be underwhelming. But only at first. Or at least to me. You can come to my house and I assure you that my 4 18's which are calibrated flat are not underwhelming at all.

Good observation about Audyssey, even XT32. As long as there are not directional distractions from the subs using information from other channels in that range, go for it. Regarding LF perception after calibration, often the acoustic response is far from smooth, and folks might be accustomed to hearing that one strong peak. One way to look a "flat'' that is a bit easier to understand in LF is to remember that the most important thing accomplished is "smoothing" out the LF acoustic response. Yes, that big peak centered at 60Hz sounded kind of cool, but by smoothing the response you've "raised" all the rest of the LF range to be just as strong. It takes some getting used to sometimes, but often it is a dramatically stronger-sounding LF. Yes, I'm an XT32 fan, but only after mechanical correction, of course.

How/where do you position four subs?
post #27283 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappydue View Post

Audussey almost always sets fronts and center to large unless they are extremely small speakers. You have to go in and change everything back to 80hz for a starting point and go from there. I used to always do 80 but after buying a calibration setup and seeing full sweeps in my room I seen that my thx setup does better cutoff at 100 hz and my subs play great up to 100hz. So that's with my setup what works best. And about the sub if you've had that way high before well then a calibrated flat setup is of course going to be underwhelming. But only at first. Or at least to me. You can come to my house and I assure you that my 4 18's which are calibrated flat are not underwhelming at all.

Thanks to you and Cam Man for your inputs.

So is the adage true that it is almost always better to run the speakers on Small? Reading about it has always made sense to me. And putting it together with what Cam Man said it would make sense to have a flatter response from the sub when running LCR in small since it would blend much better with the fronts. I'll play around with it again.
post #27284 of 35269
Would a pair of RB-25s for surround back rears timber match my RB-5 front channels?

And is $150 a fair price for those RB-25s?
post #27285 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Thanks to you and Cam Man for your inputs.

So is the adage true that it is almost always better to run the speakers on Small? Reading about it has always made sense to me. And putting it together with what Cam Man said it would make sense to have a flatter response from the sub when running LCR in small since it would blend much better with the fronts. I'll play around with it again.

I have my front speakers set as small and use 80 as cross over for subs and not make the AVR amps work so hard. I use my Cornwalls as fronts in my 5.2 HT system that takes up a rectangle 7X14 foot with 8 foot ceiling (FLP centered 7' back).

Wow some of you have some KILLER rooms. Thumbs UP. Keep the pic's coming as it gives me inspiration to remodel my two car garage when I am done with motorcycles.
post #27286 of 35269
How do the Klipsch Epic CF-4's compare to the RF-83's? What would be a fair price to offer for a pair of Epic CF-4's (Revision 3)? I've heard the Revision 1's are the version to get.

I wasn't even finished with high school when they came out, but the Epic line looks like they'd make awesome theater speakers and can be found cheaper than the heritage stuff.
Edited by etc6849 - 10/17/13 at 2:41pm
post #27287 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

I noticed a way bigger difference updating caps first then I did later swapping out the crossover entirely (plus I changed a crossover frequency with the new network), but YMMV.

Thanks! I think I'm just going to do the whole crossover swap. If I'm going to tear into them, I might as well go for it all!
post #27288 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by btmac View Post

Thanks! I think I'm just going to do the whole crossover swap. If I'm going to tear into them, I might as well go for it all!

That is what I did with my old Cornwalls last year. I wanted all new parts in the networks after 34 years of my use I figured why not.

Call Bob Crites and talk to him he is really great to deal with.
post #27289 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post

That is what I did with my old Cornwalls last year. I wanted all new parts in the networks after 34 years of my use I figured why not.

Call Bob Crites and talk to him he is really great to deal with.

I've been emailing back and forth with him. I only live about three hours from him. I may make a road trip up and pick them up!!! Good reason to go out for a long drive in my Audi. I never get to stretch its legs. Lol
post #27290 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasdom View Post

Amy Unger:

10/17 - Update: The migration/conversion process has taken much longer than anticipated, mainly due to the large amount of data contained in post attachments that were posted by "Youthman". The good news is, as of this morning, all relevant data has been migrated, and we are now in the configuration stages of the new forums. The new forums should be up relatively soon. We appreciate your continued patience.

 

Unknown to the world, Amy is actually the person behind the website for healthcare.gov.... :eek:

post #27291 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Maybe they hired the same company the Gov't hired for our new Healthcare System?
post #27292 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by btmac View Post

I've been emailing back and forth with him. I only live about three hours from him. I may make a road trip up and pick them up!!! Good reason to go out for a long drive in my Audi. I never get to stretch its legs. Lol

I wish I had my motorcycle on the trailer( ZX-14 Kawasaki) and heading your way this week. Nice weather and tree's changing colors in the next few weeks. Ozark Mountains are one of my favorite places to ride thru.

Next year a visit thru Hope and see the Klipsch Factory, and one of these trips stop at Bob Crites Shop and listen to his speakers in person. When I am done with bikes(knees going bad) I will remodel my attached garage/shop for my HT/sound room.

And get a bit more serious about my next and last HT room.
post #27293 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Good observation about Audyssey, even XT32. As long as there are not directional distractions from the subs using information from other channels in that range, go for it. Regarding LF perception after calibration, often the acoustic response is far from smooth, and folks might be accustomed to hearing that one strong peak. One way to look a "flat'' that is a bit easier to understand in LF is to remember that the most important thing accomplished is "smoothing" out the LF acoustic response. Yes, that big peak centered at 60Hz sounded kind of cool, but by smoothing the response you've "raised" all the rest of the LF range to be just as strong. It takes some getting used to sometimes, but often it is a dramatically stronger-sounding LF. Yes, I'm an XT32 fan, but only after mechanical correction, of course.

How/where do you position four subs?
i have two stacked in each front corner for now. But once I move I will place them for optimal sound vs convienance and buy mono blocks if need be.
post #27294 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

 

 

Well dang it, I missed your comment!!

post #27295 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post

I wish I had my motorcycle on the trailer( ZX-14 Kawasaki) and heading your way this week. Nice weather and tree's changing colors in the next few weeks. Ozark Mountains are one of my favorite places to ride thru.

Next year a visit thru Hope and see the Klipsch Factory, and one of these trips stop at Bob Crites Shop and listen to his speakers in person. When I am done with bikes(knees going bad) I will remodel my attached garage/shop for my HT/sound room.

And get a bit more serious about my next and last HT room.

Yep, I love it when the leaves are changing in the Ozarks. I'm in Shreveport.

I finished my Bonus room last year and that's where all my Klipsch gear is. It turned out pretty well considering it's the first time I ever finished out a room like that before. It's not fancy, but is good enough for me and my limited budget!
post #27296 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Thanks to you and Cam Man for your inputs.

So is the adage true that it is almost always better to run the speakers on Small? Reading about it has always made sense to me. And putting it together with what Cam Man said it would make sense to have a flatter response from the sub when running LCR in small since it would blend much better with the fronts. I'll play around with it again.

It's a bit too complicated to answer without conditions. If room proportions, LCR positions, and listening position(s) result in acoustic friendliness, then you might well let your LCR cross lower, as xt32 is trying. This is typically easier to find possible in larger rooms. Axial modes overlap very easily in the LF region in our more common sized rooms. If all those conditons I mentioned above aren't "ideal" then it is usually advantageous to cross somewhere around 80 Hz because you have freedom to move the sub(s) around a bit to try to smooth out LF response, then turn xt32 loose on it all. The LCRs have very little flexibility due to proper positional protocol for LCRs. Hence, the birth of bass management for small room acoustics.

That is THE reason that there are virtually no full range speakers that have ever been THX certified for home. They always presumed that HT rooms would be small enough that the best chance for smooth acoustic LF performance would be with bass management. So, THX LCRs are speced to be down 3 dB @ 80Hz with a specific slope. Subs were speced to have the same slope at 80Hz for the LPF so that the two spliced at 80Hz.

MultEQ has negated the need for the speakers to have those restrictions cooked into the design. Those kinds of speakers still perform great, but so will those that are capable of reaching lower. You have to discover/decide if even a full range tower needs to be crossed near 80 Hz for the purpose of bass mangement. That's why even xt32 is not really plug and play simple. It needs a bit of "adult supervision." smile.gif
post #27297 of 35269
Large small dabate is endless. The only wrong way would be to set it up at certain way because others say they do or don't. The right way is to try it both ways and let your ears tell you what way is best for your room and system at the volume you listen at. Give both ways a good long trail and then switch back.
post #27298 of 35269
Have tried mine 3 different ways, all after running Audyssey MultEq XT (Denon AVR-3312CI & 3311CI for wife's system):

1. Everything as set by AVR.

2. Small & 80

3. All Large, with Crossovers untouched & Bass LFE+Main

So far, #3 sounds best; #1 is how it is now.
Edited by SanchoPanza - 10/18/13 at 12:04am
post #27299 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

Large small dabate is endless. The only wrong way would be to set it up at certain way because others say they do or don't. The right way is to try it both ways and let your ears tell you what way is best for your room and system at the volume you listen at. Give both ways a good long trail and then switch back.

Right, or measure if you can! Bass response is very room and placement dependent. In my not-yet-finished room, my Klipschorns and sub combo had better bass response with a crossover at 80 Hz. Klipschorns as small speakers? Why not?

I am since finished the ceiling, and now the Klipschorn do very well with a 40 Hz crossover, which I feel better about using but I still used 80 Hz when that measured better.

Using REW and a miniDSP USB calibrated microphone , the UMIK-1, to measure.
post #27300 of 35269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Have tried mine 3 different ways, all after running Audyssey MultEq XT (Denon AVR-3312CI & 3311CI for wife's system):

1. Everything as set by AVR.

2. Small & 80

3. All Large, with Crossovers untouched & Bass LFE+Mai

So far, #3 sounds best; #1 is how it is now.

Here is a bit of info I heard about mixing practices that affect #3 above...at least it has in the past. Most full range cinema screen stacks can only reach down to about 45 Hz or so. Mixers have for quite a while overcompensated for this by shoving a lot of extra bass into the LCR stacks because the director wants to hear more bass from one or all of the LCRs. Of course, what is really being recorded is far more bass than he really wanted...to overcome the limitations of the LCRs.

When that mix comes home to us with our systems very capable of being powerful below 40 Hz, guess what. There is the potential to hear highly bloated bass in the LCRs which was never intended or even heard anywhere eIse if you choose LFE + MAIN or run full range on full range range capable LCRs. It's another case for using bass management and LFE only (not +MAINS). You eliminate that unintended idiocyncracy of the mix.

Unfortunately, I don't know if and when this practice has ceased or how to tell what titles have been mixed this way. I'm told it's a lot. So, I guess the moral of the story is, if it sounds good, use it. At least you know the potential of what might be going on, though.

Just sayin'...food for thought, FYI.
Edited by Cam Man - 10/18/13 at 7:08am
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