Klipsch owner thread - Page 149

F2's would be a good choice. However, you're thinking is right about the center. While it would get you buy, I would try and go for the C-2 when you can. Moving the front sats to the back for the rears is a fine idea and will work great. In fact, that's exactly what people do with Quintet systems for a 7.1 configuration.

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the XB-10 is the surround to use with the XL-23 lcr. I think this system is a very good sounding option for this style of speaker. I'm a big box floorstander kinda guy, so these types don't do it for me. I was surprised how good they do sound, however.

ok i'm wrong then ... i don't have the energy to debate and you're probably right anyway...

i just always heard (from back in my DB Drag days of high school) that the spl difference between say 142 and 145 is much greater than the difference between say 90 and 93. This having something do do with the logarithmic nature of the metric.

sorry for any confusion that i may have caused...

let's get back to talking about hardware now!

3dB is 3db, bud! A dB is a dB is a dB

I am not arguing with everything you are saying but want to comment on what I highlighted in bold. I completely agree with the law of diminishing returns and that is why I chose my Denon THX ultra II AVR48XX series, after several mid level Yammis (and one Denon AVR 3803) and doing extensive research on the Klipsch Forum. I thought in my small HT I wouldn't need the extra power of Separates and that the THX models would have enough current to drive my system.

It was when my AVR 4802R was damaged by a power surge and I had to use my AVR 3805 as a replacement for 5 months that I really appreciated the value of my THX ultra II unit. The first thing I had to do was replace my side surround towers with bookshelf speakers to be able to listen comfortably at near the SPL that I was accustomed (80 to 85 dB)...even then I had to lower the volume so it didn't sound so "bright." I measured the comfort level at what I was listening to multi-channel music and it was consistently 6dB or higher with the upper-end unit so I am not discounting what you are saying about WPC or the value of better processing...

What I am suggesting is that if a person was going to the trouble/expense of purchasing RF-7/RC-7 they should also realize that the difference between a lower end AVR and one that can provide more power (or adding Separates). I contend if a person hooks up the RF-7/RC-7 and appropriate surrounds to a bottom of the line AVR they may not have the results they were looking for and it would start clipping when they cranked up the volume. If you feel comfortable that a lower end Onkyo (or any other brand) would drive the RF-7/RC-7 because of better amps than the previous models then I will look into updating my recommendation on this thread.

What you are saying, from my interpretation, is valid and fair. Yes, with a upper model receiver you will gain performance. No question.

My only point among all my rambling is that an upper model receiver isn't necessary to enjoy the R7 system. Sure, you might not be able to crank it as loud. Sure it may sound strained at the upper end of the gain stage, but can still provide plenty of volume and sound when used properly.

Interesting comments you made regarding the 3805. I had that very receiver powering my complete 7.1 system (RF-7, RC-7, RS-7, RB-25) and was able to easily listen at 85dB (my sweet spot if you will) without any detection of clipping. Granted I didn't have towers all the way around. I'm one of those guys who much prefers diffusion on the sides more so than direct radiators. Anyway, all my speakers were crossed over at 80Hz, too, so that helped the load on he receiver as well. However, I'm sure during peaks the amp would clip at times, though..but I couldn't hear it so I didn' worry. Now, with the addition of the 8008x3 the sound is fuller, the soundstage is larger, and the bass is tight and punchy..but over all volume..not that significant. I now have a 3806 and I like it's processing and adjustability over the 3805 much more. I compared the 43 and the 48 series, but for processing..I really couldn't hear any difference so I didn't spend the extra coin.

btw - what does your system consist of? Sounds like it's very nice!

When my AVR 4802 went kaput I brought the AVR 3805 upstairs to my Library Home Theater and tried listening at 80 to 85 dB but couldn't do it and didn't like the way it sounded crossed at 80 hz for the whole system (although I prefer keeping my RF-7s crossed at 60 Hz with my current AVR).

When I replaced my RF-3 side surrounds with the RB-75s I could raise the volume to around 80, but not much higher and it didn't sound as full as with the towers. I wouldn't drive them to clipping, but they did sound brighter at those upper levels.

I also have the RS-7s as Surround "B" but never use them because after experimentation I prefer 5.1 material be matrixed in 7.1 using direct radiating speakers. I realize YMMV and I have a unique room and because of obstacles some of my speakers are raised....http://forums.klipsch.com/photos/the...egory1003.aspx . Oh yeah, the bottom end in my less than 2000 cu ft room is taken up by a RSW 12 in front and a RSW 15 in the back.

yes, I like the low end for sure! I have an RT-10 and RSW-15 myself. I'll throw out selling the RSW-12 and picking up an RT in it's place. Just an idea for you. Use the room correction and you'll be quite surprised how much the room correction improves yoru bass response. After that you can connect a laptop to the RT and manually adjust the eq to flatten it out even more. I've been able to get flat response from 78 to 18Hz -/+3dB. I have a suck out around 80Hz-82Hz, though, that I can't seem to fix. I know it's not the integration with the mains because the sweep only runs the subs.

I appreciate the advice but because of room configuration I feel I need the two subs. I have no place in front for the RSW 15 and without the front RSW-12 ( and only the rear sub) the low end is noticably localized.--Btw, the single RSW 12 didn't do it for me.

Insofar as room correction I have been happy with Audyssey but will look into what you suggest. Thanks

Sorry, I didn't mean going with "only" 1 sub, I mean the RT in place of the RSW12 ALONG with the RSW15 And, I know what you mean, the single RSW15 didn't do it for me, either.

The RT has line-level outputs you can daisy chain subs together. When the ARC runs the RT is also runs the chained sub so it will EQ both subs. The RSW's are great with RT's because the RSW's are analog so you don't have to worry about DSP delay. Just food for thought is all. You have great subbage, so please don't take me wrong, just trying to give ideas for improvements.

The Audyssey doesn't do any low frequency corrections to my knowledge. It's sets the level and distance for the sub, but does not eq the sub. At least that's how my 3806 is, they may have changed that by now..I dunno. Sure wish it would set phase properly, too... Guess we can't have it all...yet.

Wow, i had no idea my question would spark that many posts! Great info from you guys though. I pretty much know that for receivers that the power output really isn't going to give him anymore dB that he'll really notice.

I'm more worried about the low end receiver not being able to handle the big impedance dips at higher volumes that I'm sure the RF-7 requires. He won't have a sub at first, and with the sexy 10's in the RF-7's he won't be missing a ton of low end but they'll be running full range. I assume something like the onkyo 606 can power them fine, but just start clipping earlier than say the 805 or higher end denon? Am I thinking about this right?

Would he help himself more by going up the line and go higher power receiver or sub to take some of the load off the low end receiver?

If he can afford more, by all means go for it. Like I always say..spend more than you can afford!! My wife, however, does not share the same philosophy. :P

The impedance dips can go pretty low with these guys. He just needs to watch how loud he wants to run them. Perhaps a good outboard 2 channel amp used for $500-600 could be bought? That would be a great solution. That way, he can keep the amp around no matter what receiver he gets..as long as it has left right front pre-amp outputs.

LOL well he could afford the low end palladiums floorstanders! He's single and making loads of money right now. But he'd never even consider spending that kind of money. It's been hard enough getting him excited about anything audio related because he's so cheap. He can see the benefits by hearing real speakers at my house but I doubt he'll want to step into higher end gear if the low end "works".

Sounds like we just need to get him bit by the bug! He gets the RF-7's or 83's or whatever he decides..he'll start getting excited, I can bout damn near gaaaronteeee.

i know my RF-5s, RC-7, RS-7s and RSW-12 make me smile

i'll probably upgrade to the RF-7s somewhere down the road but for now the 5s do nicely...

What you guys think....A pair of RB-25's for 110$ a good price?

Fwiw, I believe Audyssey on the Denon AVR 3806 does eq the sub but doesn't display the results.

just to update you guys, I bit the bullet and purchased 3 xl-23s and 2 xb-10s... I will let you guys know how I like them... they are coming either tuesday or wednesday, and I am SO EXCITED!

i decided to go with an lcr setup because i realized since I already have a dedicated media room in the house, I really didn't need the power or performance of large floorstanders or bookshelf systems, and I wanted to have a aesthetically pleasing setup (esp with my new bdi avion stand and 52" samsung 7 series lcd)...

goodbye to my f-2 system!

What do you think, should I get them?

i don't think you can go wrong with that price...

I doubt that the low end will be very dramatic so you'll probably want to run a sub if you're not already..

overall i'd say go for it.. if you don't like them you could always sell those speakers for near if not all of what you paid for them..

Just FYI for you, the AUD only sets the level and distance for the sub on the 3806, it does not EQ the sub at all. There is a thread somewhere on here about the AUD maybe it was the 3806 owner's thread..anyway..one of the AUD developers was pretty heavily engaged explaining what it can and can't do.


$110 for RB-25's?? GO FOR IT! I just sold mine for $175. So, you can definitely recover your money should you not like them. You'll love them with a sub.

SWEET! You're gonna love them. I'll tell you the XB-10's by themselves are great performers.

THat LCR set up blends perfectly together. Let us know what you think when you get it all set up.

From the Audyssey website:


Audyssey MultEQ does EQ the subwoofer and with 8x resolution. The Denon 3806 has MultEQ, so it does EQ the subwoofer, although not with the resolution of MultEQ XT products. The only Audyssey enabled products that do not EQ the sub are 2EQ products.

Craig

Anyone on this thread have any idea where I can demo the KL650's? I can't find a local dealer with a setup for demo. I'm hoping maybe a forum member in my area? I'm considering replacing my M&K 150's for these but need to hear them before I make a change.

I'm sure this has been asked several times before but for those who have switched from M&K's, any opinions would be appreciated!

I need that punch in the gut feeling from the midbass and I'm not getting that from my S150's and some are claiming to achieve this from the KL650's. Dedicated room is 12x22x8. It's not lack of power from the the amp, plenty of power from my Theta Dreadnaught II.

Thanks everyone!

Tony

The Denon 3806 actually has MutlEQ XT.* At least that's what silk-screen on the front panel of mine.* WOW..if it does EQ the subwoofer, I never knew that! * I must say, in my room, it does a horrible job if so.* Learn something new everyday.* I stand corrected!* Thanks for showing me the light, guys.

Guys, I really need your input...

As i posted earlier, I just bought the xl-23 system... now I really need a new sub. I have been researching on the forum but my subwoofer thread is not getting me much feedback..

I initially wanted to stay with klipsch, but the d ecent subs are SO expensive... My budget is about 500 and that can be from a discounter (or ebay) or second hand...

I don't want the ksw-10 or ksw-12, I don't like the subs too much. I have no heard the sub-12 but I am sure it is not a good match to my icon series speakers... I was considering the rd-10 or rd-12 but I tihnk the 10" won't keep up and the 12" is above budget..

what do you guys think? would the sub-12 not keep up? The sub that is on top of my list right now is the cadence csx-15... but I have never heard it in person...

Cam someone please rate the F2's? Which Klipsch tower speakers are better and not much more expensive? I'm looking for full sounding clarity from the speakers that can be cranked loud without distortion. I heard the F2s at CC and thought they were nice, especially for the price.

[quote=KKfromLA;14806700]
My budget is about 500 and that can be from a discounter (or ebay) or second hand...[quote]


For $500.00 here is a great deal:
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

Bill

[quote=Willland;14806800][quote=KKfromLA;14806700]
My budget is about 500 and that can be from a discounter (or ebay) or second hand...
well unfortunately there is no way I can get a cherry sub, thanks for the suggestion though willand... plus I want to try to get something on ebay so I can use a coupon i have... I have to decide by tonight so I don't have much time unfortunately. I can get a brand new sub-12 for about $300, a cadence csx-15 for 350, or a rw-10d for about the same price..

also, the only thing that bothers me about the klipsch subs is that they don't go too low...

I currently have the RW-10d. I bought it to go with my (3) RVX-42's and a pair of RSX-4's. Great combination with that setup but a little weak with my RF-63's. I will be buying the RSW10d in cherry to go with my cherry 63's. The RW-10d should work well with your XL-23's(replacement for RVX-42's). For $350.00 you can't go wrong.

Bill