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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 48

post #1411 of 5883
Long article on OLED's with a pretty definitive quote from LG. The difference between this and previous speculation is that LG is actually building a fab that will be able to commercialize displays in these sizes.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article...=english_PRINT

Quote:


Building on this foundation, LG Display announced it would volume-produce 20-inch class large-size OLED panels in 2010, 30-inch class in 2011, and 40-inch class in 2012. Vice President Won Kim, in charge of OLED Sales & Marketing at the firm, is confident: "They may be expensive, but it will be possible to buy a 40-inch class OLED TV in 2012."
post #1412 of 5883
40" in 2012...what a joke. Plasma should have reached true zero luminance by that point (should it still be around).
post #1413 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

40" in 2012...what a joke. Plasma should have reached true zero luminance by that point (should it still be around).

That's why it's an early technology which continues to progress as time passes.

post #1414 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

Long article on OLED's with a pretty definitive quote from LG. The difference between this and previous speculation is that LG is actually building a fab that will be able to commercialize displays in these sizes.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article...=english_PRINT

The 20" OLED cost is 3 000 000 Korean won which is about 2600$.
This is far from any market impact.
post #1415 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

The 20" OLED cost is 3 000 000 Korean won which is about 2600$.
This is far from any market impact.

It really wasn't very long ago that that was the price for a 32" LCD TV. Personally, I am impressed that it is already that inexpensive. I think cheap OLED PC monitors by 2015 might be a reality.
post #1416 of 5883
Thread Starter 
OLED Panels: The Way to Larger Screens
1 February 2010

The market for organic LED panels continues to grow, for small panels in mobile phones and similar devices, as well as in lighting. The trend is accelerating as the possibilities for large OLED panels open up, and a new market for 20-inch and larger OLED TVs may emerge in 2010 or beyond. Development of technologies for larger screens at lower cost is surging ahead. This article probes the shape of the next generation of flat screen TVs.

The OLED panel boasts phenomenal performance, including displays that surpass those of CRT, superlative blacks, and ultra-thin bodies only a few millimeters thick. They have been called the ultimate display panel for flat screen TVs. Sony Corp. became the first in the world to volume-produce an 11-inch OLED TV in October 2007, but the technology never took off. At the time, television manufacturers like Toshiba Corp. and Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. announced plans to volume-produce OLED TVs, but as of the end of 2009, at least, neither company shows any signs of shipping.

LG Electronics Aggressively Pursuing Larger Screens

Development in large-size OLED panels has seemed stagnant for some time, but all of a sudden it has picked up speed again.

One of the most active firms is the LG Group: LG Electronics, Inc. announced a 15-inch OLED TV in August 2009, releasing it to the Korean market in December of the same year for three million won.

The OLED panel was manufactured by LG Display Co., Ltd., another group firm, and delivers a peak brightness of 450cd/m2, a contrast ratio of at least 100,000:1 and a color reproducibility range of 98% of the NTSC standard. The TFT drive device uses poly-silicon crystallized in a high-temperature process known as solid-phase crystallization (SPC). Each of the red, green, and blue OLED-emitting films is created by vacuum-depositing material via a shadow mask. A cavity structure (multiple reflection interference) is used to expand the range of color reproducibility.

LG Display is already working on a small OLED panel for mobile phones. The company announced plans to ramp up a new OLED panel manufacturing line in the first quarter of 2010, and has continues to boost production scale. In June 2009 it entered into a tie-up with Idemitsu Kosan Co. Ltd., securing OLED material supplies, and in December 2009 it announced the acquisition of the OLED business of OLED panel pioneer Eastman Kodak Co.: LG Display is clearly strengthening its R&D capabilities.

Building on this foundation, LG Display announced it would volume-produce 20-inch class large-size OLED panels in 2010, 30-inch class in 2011, and 40-inch class in 2012. Vice President Won Kim, in charge of OLED Sales & Marketing at the firm, is confident: "They may be expensive, but it will be possible to buy a 40-inch class OLED TV in 2012."

Healthy Growth in Small Panel Market

Part of the reason behind the LG Group's eagerness is strong growth in small OLED panels. OLED panels are becoming the display of choice in many portable electronic products, including mobile phones, smartphones, media players, and digital cameras (Fig. 1). For mobile products like these that handle imagery, according to Hiroshi Hayase, Director of DisplaySearch in Japan, "The excellent display performance of OLED panels is something that can be immediately appreciated by the user." More and more manufacturers are entering the market, such as Casio Computer Co., Ltd. and Toppan Printing Co., Ltd. Toppan announced the establishment of a new company to volume-produce small OLED panels for digital cameras and similar applications in November 2009.



OLEDs are achieving full-scale adoption in several markets,
primarily mobile phones and smartphones. They are having
a tough time penetrating the home electronics market, but
larger displays are expected in 2010 or beyond.


Display market research firm DisplaySearch forecasts that total OLED panel shipment value in 2009 will reach about US$845 million (Fig. 2). Of this, says the firm, mobile phone main screen displays will account for about US$521 million or about 61% of the total. Main screen display shipment value is expected to rise at least five times by 2016, hitting about US$2,820 million.

As volume production rises, manufacturing yield at industry leader Samsung Mobile Display Co., Ltd. (SMD) is improving, reaching 60% for VGA (640 pixels × 480 pixels), and 80% for quarter VGA (QVGA; 320 pixels × 240 pixels) screens, according to DisplaySearch's Hayase. It seems clear that the firm is steadily accumulating expertise in volume production.



[Fig. 2 Mobile Phones and Smartphones Drive the Market]
A forecast of OLED shipment value broken down by application type.
Mobile phone (and smartphone) main displays will be the primary
growth driver through 2011, but TVs are expected to show
gradual growth from 2011.


Another Push from Lighting Applications

The emergence of the OLED lighting market is adding more wind to the sails. OLED panels offer a variety of characteristics including surface emission, transparency, thinness, and light weight, opening up potential in a host of markets that existing light sources (fluorescent, incandescent, white LED) can't touch. And that is luring a host of new companies into the market.

Manufacturers are ramping up volume production of OLED lighting. In Japan, Lumiotec Inc. plans to begin volume production in January 2010, while Konica Minolta Holdings, Inc. announced in November 2009 that it would invest 3.5 billion yen into a prototype line. Overseas, Royal Philips Electronics NV, General Electric Co., and others are planning volume production. DisplaySearch believes that the OLED lighting market will begin to take off in 2010, growing to about US$2.838 billion in 2016.

Expanding production levels for small OLED panels and increasing adoption of OLED lighting will no doubt further accelerate the development of practical large-size OLED panels. They have a number of points in common, including materials and device architecture, not to mention that expertise is being accumulated now on how to boost manufacturing yield in volume production.

Tapping into the Power of the "Eco Boom"?

Characteristics such as saving energy and ecologically sound design emerged as major dimensions for competition in flat screen TVs at the start of 2009, and this trend as well is contributing to the early commercialization of large OLED panels. In January 2009, for example, Sony announced the BRAVIA VE5 series of LCD TVs, trumpeting a 40% reduction in energy consumption from the prior model. In September 2009 Sharp Corp. released the LED AQUOS LX series with white LED backlights, emphasizing image quality and low energy consumption. Considering rising interest in the environment, it is likely this trend will continue.

One Japanese LCD engineer explains that one reason OLED panels are so hot is that "energy consumption in LCD panels has been cut about as low as it can go, due to limitations imposed by the structure itself." LCD panels use voltage to control the liquid crystal polymer, blocking the backlight light or allowing it to shine through, and making tonal display possible. The LCD has a complex structure, consisting of TFT, liquid crystal layer, color filters, two polarizer sheets, and two glass sheets, just to name the larger components, and each one increases total backlight light loss. The LCD engineer quoted above adds, "only about 5% of the backlight light actually passes through an LCD panel, and it is incredibly difficult to increase that number."

OLED panels are self-emitting devices, and have low loss because of their principle of operation. Many engineers working with them agree that a material delivering higher light emission efficiency would make it easier to reduce OLED panel power consumption, and that OLEDs will at least match the low power consumption of LCD panels, if not beat it.

Recognizing this situation, manufacturers are once again developing large OLED panels for televisions. In addition to the above-mentioned LG Display, Sony revealed in its business overview in November 2009 that it will continue to invest into developing its own displays, including OLEDs.

Samsung Electronics, the largest TV manufacturer in the world, has not disclosed plans to volume-produce large OLED panels, but subsidiary SMD is the largest company in manufacturing small OLED panels, and essentially monopolizes the active matrix OLED panel manufacturing field. In short, it probably has more knowledge about manufacturing OLED panels than anyone in the industry. Several analysts familiar with the TV field predict Samsung Electronics will modify its existing fifth-generation LCD panel line to make OLED panels for TVs.

Simple Upsizing Not the Solution

There are a number of problems that will have to be resolved before large OLED panels can be made, though, one of which is establishing volume-production technology capable of producing large panels cheaply. The lack of such a technology is the major reason why manufacturers worldwide have never shown more than prototypes when it comes to OLED panels or TVs of over 20 inches (Fig. 3). The TFTs, film growth process, etc., used in small and medium OLED panels cannot be used directly in manufacturing large OLED panels, although (as mentioned below) a few ways around the problem are emerging.



[Fig. 3 Prototypes Only for 20-Inch and Larger OLED TVs]
TV, panel and other manufacturers have shown a variety of prototypes
for 20-inch and larger TVs at society meetings, exhibitions, etc., but
thus far the only volume-production models on the market are the
11-inch from Sony and the 15-inch from LG Electronics.


The biggest obstacle to large OLED panels is the rapid improvement in the performance of competing LCD panels, along with dropping cost and a few other factors. An engineer in the OLED field explains, "That's why it is so difficult for OLED panels to demonstrate superiority over LCD TVs with their strong points alone: image quality, thinness, etc."

Since 2007, when the push to develop large screens and high resolution (1920 pixels × 1080 pixels) tapered off, LCD panels have made significant progress in image quality, thinness, and other characteristics. Conventional cold-cathode fluorescent lamp (CCFL) backlights are being replaced by LEDs, bringing display performance up to par with that of OLED panels.

For example, most LCD TVs with direct-illumination LED backlights offer a contrast ratio of one million-to-one and color reproducibility of 100% or better of NTSC. This performance beats the 15-inch OLED TV from LG Electronics mentioned above. Using an edge light LED backlight, the thinnest part is no more than 20mm thick. While OLED TVs could offer even better specs (image quality, thinness, etc.), it is difficult to make the difference significant to potential buyers.

This is why it seems likely large OLED panels will, for now, aim at applications where they can avoid competing with LCD panels. At FPD International 2009 in October 2009, a number of such panel prototypes were exhibited (Fig. 4). LG Display and SMD jointly developed a "transparent display" that can be seen through. Transparent materials were used for both cathode and anode, and light is emitted from both sides of the panel. A staffer at LG Display explained it was intended for public applications such as digital signage.



[Fig. 4 LG Display and SMD Pioneering New Applications
Just for OLEDs] LG Display and SMD are developing bendable OLED
panels, transparent designs, and more. Such applications are based
on the unique advantages of OLED panels and are difficult to handle
with LCD panels.


LG Display also showed a display designed for medical applications, with high readability and an excellent contrast ratio. SMD had a smart card display, only 50µm thick and bendable. Volume production dates were not announced for either display, but considering the unique advantages of OLED panels, they seem almost certain to be commercialized.

Steady Development of Technologies for Larger Displays at Lower Cost

Technology development for larger OLED panels is also forging ahead. According to Takatoshi Tsujimura, Senior Director, OLED Systems at Kodak Japan, Ltd., panel manufacturers are "not only pursuing display performance, but also selecting technologies that are expected to achieve the highest manufacturing yield in volume production."

The keys to larger displays are TFTs that can be used to drive OLEDs and can handle the larger display area, and film growth technology capable of forming organic electroluminescent light-emitting layers at low cost and over large areas (Fig. 5).



[Fig. 5 Two Major Technological Obstacles to Larger Size,
Lower Cost] There are a number of technical obstacles to achieving
larger OLED panel size at lower cost. In particular, TFT materials that
can be used with larger glass substrates and OLED device multi-layer
process technologies will have to be developed.


LG Display, already aiming to volume-produce a 40-inch display in 2012, has provided some indices for OLED panel manufacturing, relative to LCD panels of the same size. The company's Kim explains, "We plan to use fifth- and sixth-generation glass substrate in 2012, yielding two to four 40-inch panel sheets each. That should mean material costs hit 150%, with a yield of about 70%. In 2016 we'll probably use 10th-generation substrates, taking 18 40-inch sheets apiece, just like LCD panels, dropping our material costs to 70% or 80% for about the same yield."

Wide Variety of TFT Candidates

Let's take a closer look at possible ways to improve TFTs. In order to achieve reduced cost, TFTs will have to be manufactured on glass substrates the same size as the liquid crystal panels used for TVs. It is difficult to use the amorphous silicon TFTs of large LCD panels, or the low-temperature poly-silicon (LTPS) of small and medium LCD panels without some changes, though. The manufacturing process for large OLED panels is therefore being reviewed, with the most promising solutions including polycrystalline silicon TFTs made without laser annealing, and amorphous oxide semiconductor TFTs.

There are two reasons why amorphous silicon TFTs cannot be used―first, carrier mobility is only about 1cm2/Vs, making it impossible to attain satisfactory brightness. The second is that threshold voltage drifts over time, causing display variations.

LTPS TFTs, on the other hand, have a high carrier mobility of about 100cm2/Vs, and a threshold voltage drift only about one-tenth that of amorphous silicon TFTs. This is why SMD uses them in the small and medium OLED panels now in volume production, and in its 31-inch prototype. The problem with LTPS TFTs is the difficulty in making larger glass substrates. After the amorphous silicon film is formed, it must be crystallized using laser annealing, and that can increase the variation in transistor characteristics. In LCD panels, third-generation glass is the largest used.

This situation has forced panel manufacturers to move ahead with the development of new TFT materials and manufacturing processes. Concretely, they are improving the silicon TFT manufacturing process and adopting amorphous oxide semiconductors, among other things.

Sixth-Generation Glass with Silicon TFTs

The manufacturing process is being improved by finding a way to crystallize amorphous silicon without using laser annealing.

For example, the 15-inch volume-production design from LG Display, introduced above, uses a special process called solid-phase crystallization (SPC). Amorphous silicon is heated to about 700°C to create polycrystalline silicon. Carrier mobility is about 20cm2/Vs, and the threshold voltage drift is about the same as LTPS. Heat treatment does present a problem in the form of glass substrate shrinkage, but LG Display's Kim reveals they can already handle up to sixth-generation glass. This means that the firm has established volume-production technology up through about 30-inch displays. The problem now is finding a way to use eighth-generation substrates: Kim states the only way will be to develop new manufacturing equipment.

SMD, meanwhile, is developing a polycrystalline silicon TFT called super-grain silicon (SGS). A trace amount of nickel is coated onto the amorphous silicon substrate to serve as nuclei for crystal growth, and then polycrystalline silicon is formed at elevated temperatures. The company used this SGS process in a 40-inch prototype first disclosed in October 2008.

Repeatability Issues in Oxide Semiconductors

Of the amorphous semiconductors, In-Ga-Zn-O (IGZO) is thought to be the most promising TFT material for large OLEDs. IGZO TFT carrier mobility is about 10cm2/Vs, and threshold voltage drift about equal. It can be manufactured by sputtering, which is attractive because it means no major changes would be needed to make it on existing LCD panel lines. In the future, it could well be made through a coating process rather than sputtering, which would lower costs even more.

Manufacturers in Korea and Taiwan are especially interested in developing oxide semiconductor TFTs, and a number of firms showed prototype OLED panels, LCD panels, and other items at FPD International 2009. The largest screen was a 19-inch design from SMD. LG Display and AU Optronics Corp. have disclosed that they are using amorphous IGZO. The Samsung Group has not revealed what type of oxide semiconductors it is using, but has announced a number of IGZO TFT prototypes in the past and is likely to still be using IGZO.

The biggest problem with oxide semiconductors is the poor repeatability of the manufacturing process. LG Display's Kim, however, points out, "We expect the situation to improve a bit when we use heat treatment after film deposition."

White OLEDs, Front and Center

Another key to larger displays is the deposition process used for light-emitting devices. In general, there are two possibilities here: coating phosphors independently emitting red, green, and blue (RGB), or using white material with three (again, RGB) color filters.

In the small and medium OLED panels in volume production now, low-molecular phosphors are formed by vacuum deposition using a shadow mask. However, it is extremely difficult to ensure sub-pixel alignment with shadow masks. As a result, most people in the industry feel the approach cannot be used on substrates larger than fourth-generation. In addition, material utilization efficiency is low, raising costs.

Developers are now eyeing a combination of white light emitters and color filters as a way to easily obtain larger panels. Eastman Kodak Co. has been using this approach for some time now, and LG Display is also making prototypes as it prepares to acquire the firm.

In general, color filters make it unnecessary to coat phosphors, so it is much easier to increase substrate size. The only way to expand the color reproducibility range, however, is by increasing the thickness of each of the RGB layers. Color filters increase the amount of light absorbed, stealing some of the panel brightness that is such an advantage for OLEDs. The only way to ensure brightness on a par with coated designs is to boost the brightness of the white light emitted, which means higher power consumption and shorter service life. There is a trade-off between a wider color reproduction range and lower power consumption.

The 8.1-inch prototype produced by Eastman Kodak claims to have found a way around this problem while achieving a wider color reproducibility range: 100% of NTSC. Power consumption is, according to Kodak Japan's Tsujimura, "no more than 2W for the 8.1-inch display, using the latest white emitters. An LCD panel of the same size would consume about 2W to 4W, making this quite competitive." The device is a bottom emission design, with light emitted from the TFT side, so the color filters must be formed above the TFT substrate.

These performance improvements are due to two major reasons. The first is that the emission efficiency of the white material has been improved dramatically, supported by development for lighting applications. The material used by Eastman Kodak has a current conversion efficiency of about 50cd/A, which Kodak Japan's Tsujimura says represents an annual rise of 50% since 2007.

The other reason is the use of the firm's proprietary W-RGBW sub-pixel array, coupled with a modified drive scheme. Compared to the conventional design using three color filters (RGB), it delivers superior color reproducibility at lower power.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An Outlook on 2010!! (Technology Reviews)
2 February 2010




It was 27 years ago when Ching Tang of Eastman Kodak introduced an organic electroluminescent device using Alq3 in 1983 to trigger OLED studies. Kodak, since then, has collaborated with Sanyo, Japan to develop digital cameras and displays for mobile products and to commercialize AMOLED under the name of SK display, in 2001 for the first time in the world; a few products were introduced yet had faded away from the market, only IP-related licenses and R&D efforts have been maintained. Some suggested that the cause of OLED’s struggle in the industry during 2000s could be royalty issues with Kodak while others suggested LCD’s invincibility. In 2009 last year, Kodak handed OLED-related business over to LG Display. Technologies that are still yet to be commercialized had to be buried along with hundreds of patents. Will LG Display be able to grow OLED business with its recent major takeover? The impact is not exclusive to LG Display, it seems. Unlike Kodak running other businesses, companies running both OLED and LCD business are linked together in patent chain, which causes indirect impact on all companies in the chain.

With the world economy stagnation still in effect, the three major players in the display industry-Korea, Japan and Taiwan-went through difficult times and now are getting ready for the new year, 2010, in their own ways. In Korea, both Samsung and LG secured solid positions in the market and reached the highest LCD sales, which led to more investment on AMOLED and extension of the existing lines; the companies are planning for additional investment in 2010. Samsung Mobile Display(SMD) also contributed to introducing AMOLED to the general public through AMOLED phone marketing and LG Display(LGD) stated its plan to reach the top in TV business after taking over Kodak. Taiwan, on the other hand, suffered in LCD industry to secure competitive power only with M&As to get bigger. As Innolux took over TPO and merged CMO, AMOLED business had to be compromised in the process and it is still uncertain whether the situation turns to something positive. In Japan, SONY, the pioneer of AMOLED TV, couldn’t keep its promise for the production and no future plans have been released yet while other companies haven’t confirmed their production plans, either. The United States and Europe with no TFT base make efforts for OLED light source development hosted by the governments; existing lighting companies including GE, Philips and Osram are now actively involved in the development.

One thing that is certain in OLED business is that there is no such thing as a perfect technology. The key is how to supplement the weakness and enhance the strengths. In retrospect, there have been two dilemmas in OLED business: device performance and competitive price/larger OLEDs. There are low molecule and polymer in OLED and LTPS and a-Si in TFT; current production was made possible by the combination of low molecule and LTPS in terms of device performance. However, since major companies announced their TV production by 2012, competitive price and larger size issues have to be resolved to compete with LCD, the giant in the market, in order not to repeat SONY’s XEL. The biggest issues in OLED industry in 2010 would be development of alternative for the existing FMM method(LITI, White+CF, Printing etc), larger devices and larger TFT crystallization devices.

The functions of mobile display have been switched from audio/video play to internet access as smart phone and netbook were introduced to the market, which generated demands for displays that enable various web contents. Most of these contents are created with resolutions of VGA or higher, which requires the resolutions of the same level on mobile devices, and LCD has no problem in realizing such resolutions in small devices. OLED, on the other hand, uses fine metal mask(FMM) to realize RGB and this method is difficult to achieve VGA level resolution in 3-inch devices. According to SMD’s report, LTPS+ LCD in small applications is expected to be replaced for LTPS + OLED by 2012. To achieve high end product premium, AMOLED should focus on the above applications and the main issue is how to achieve high resolutions.

OLED development for light source is relatively flexible than other applications in terms of technology; however, due to the nature of the applications, it has to achieve two goals-efficiency and cost better than those of LED-if the focus is to develop regular light source instead of seeking smaller, more specified markets. Like larger TVs, the problem is to apply materials and processes at competitive prices and achieve sufficient efficiency. GE and Dupont suggest solution materials and web process are the only ways to have competitive prices. One can expect that SMD could enter light source market with relatively strong competitive power by its various cost-saving tips with its low molecular deposition technology since the company shows yield that is close to 100%.

Many companies made announcements last year on extension of mobile product market and TV/lighting product production in 2011~2012. Milestones that seemed so far away are now about to come true; how to operate which strategies during this 1~2-year time will be the key to success. Overall success, not limited to that of one specific company, is the only way to secure solid position in the competition with LCD and LED. Therefore year 2010 will be an important year for all OLED companies to make decisions and growth.
post #1417 of 5883
Mitsubishi Chemical and Pioneer disclosed Tuesday that they have entered into a technology and capital alliance on their OLED lighting businesses, which will strengthen their company relations. Read about it here: http://www.twice.com/article/448393-...hp?rssid=20312

I assume that OLED TVs will come out of this alliance.
post #1418 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spleen View Post

I assume that OLED TVs will come out of this alliance.

The article talks exclusively about OLED lighting appliances and nothing about display devices. It's about using Mitsubishi's fabrication process at Pioneer's fabricating plants, making tons of panels and splitting the profits. OLED displays are a fair bit more complicated than OLED lights, too...
post #1419 of 5883
technologyreview.com/computing/24520/?a=f
Quote:


Making OLED Displays Cheaper
February 11, 2010

A startup in Menlo Park, CA, hopes to bring down the cost of these high-performance displays by making equipment for printing them on a large scale. Kateeva is testing a prototype large-area OLED printer that it will send to display manufacturers for testing next year. According to the company, its equipment can be used to print OLED displays for 60 percent of the cost of LCDs.

Video: technologyreview.com/video/?vid=525

New user here. Links won't work yet...
post #1420 of 5883
I, for one, look forward with great anticipation the arrival of OLED lighting. I'd LOVE to use it for under counter lighting when we redo our kitchen.
post #1421 of 5883
Sony says to end OLED TV sales in Japan
Saw this article and I wonder what does this mean for the US market ..

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...pe=marketsNews
post #1422 of 5883
Well, it doesn't surprise me that there's no demand for a $2200 11" screen, no matter how good it might be.
post #1423 of 5883
Maybe they decided better to let Samsung and LG burn money trying to make it happen.

Price rules quality so if OLED can't be price/cost competitive, quality is moot.
post #1424 of 5883
All the more reason to have a Kuro 9th Gen for the foreseeable future. OLED looks to be on shaky ground.
post #1425 of 5883
endgadgetHD reports LG 15" OLED to begin shipping in May to Europe and this summer to US http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/28/l...-scheduled-to/
post #1426 of 5883
who wants to spend 2200 on an 11" display that doesnt support HD?

so when will the 20" be hitting us? ive been wating forever for SED and now it seems like OLED is slowing down.
post #1427 of 5883
03/04/2010

OLEDNet has published an OLED market forecast for 2010-2016. Basically the say that during 2010, Samsung will introduce 5" and 7" AMOLEDs, and LG Display will produce 2.7" AMOLED for digital cameras, 3.5" WVGA for mobile phones and 4.3" OLEDs for portable TVS. Toshiba Mobile Displays (TMD) will begin AMOLED small panel production during 2010 as well.



Toshiba, Matsushita and Hitachi are all expected to introduce 20"-40" OLED TV panels as early as 2011. AUO will begin mass production in 2011, too.

via OLED-Info
Source OLEDNet
post #1428 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdGamerDude View Post

who wants to spend 2200 on an 11" display that doesnt support HD?

so when will the 20" be hitting us? ive been wating forever for SED and now it seems like OLED is slowing down.

From the chart above, >20" OLED TVs might be released next year! It looks like 55" OLED TVs might start shipping in 5 years! So, still away off...
post #1429 of 5883
Some website compared a Nexus One and an iPhone and the N1 had horrible banding on some images.

Before they move to bigger screen sizes, they have to at least improve the image quality and power consumption of OLEDs.
post #1430 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Some website compared a Nexus One and an iPhone and the N1 had horrible banding on some images.

Before they move to bigger screen sizes, they have to at least improve the image quality and power consumption of OLEDs.

The PenTile pixel structure of the OLED display inside the Nexus One is not representative of all OLED displays:



http://www.displayblog.com/2009/03/2...-oled-display/

http://www.displayblog.com/2010/01/2...-oled-display/



The banding and pixel structure issues were not a problem for the XEL-1:
http://reviews.cnet.com/oled/sony-xe...-32815284.html

http://hdguru.com/sony-xel-1-finally...al-review/242/

We'll see how the LG 15EL9500 looks when it is released later this year! Perhaps Sony will finally release their 1080p 27" model in 2011!
post #1431 of 5883
Hey guys, I have a tech question about OLED. One of the biggest problems with LCD computer monitors, and yet it rarely gets mentioned, I guess because most computer users (game players particularly) are unaware what an impact it has on them, is that it's my understanding that an LCD computer monitor has to be run at it's maximum (native) resolution all the time. Or else there are visual artifacts (defects) of one sort or the other that are introduced to the image if you try to run at a lower resolution than the monitor's full native resolution, is that correct?

If so, that's one great thing about a CRT monitor, you can choose any resolution you like (not just the maximum res the monitor supports) and they all look great, no visual artifacts in the image, the only thing that changes (obviously) is the resolution available on the screen depending on which res you choose to run the monitor at. This helps a lot when you are running games, as you take a huge frames-per-second performance hit in games when you run at very high resolutions (like with an LCD monitor). This means you have to upgrade your computer much more often to keep the frame rates in the latest most graphically intense games running smoothly at these very high resolutions. And that costs a lot of money needlessly.

I see that the first laptop OLED computer monitors are due out this year. I think they will be around 15 or 17 inches. And that means that desktop models will not be far behind, that's what I'm looking forward to, the larger desktop models. And this brings me to the OLED technical question. I don't think I've ever seen definite confirmation on this yet. Can an OLED computer monitor be used at a resolution lower than it's maximum (native) resolution while keeping the on-screen image free from any visual defects?

Like, for example, let's say the OLED monitor is a 19 inch 4:3 model and it has a maximum (native) resolution of 1600x1200. Could I run this OLED monitor at 1024x768 or 1280x960 if I wanted to and games would still look perfect (no visual artifact penalty for not running the games at 1600x1200)? You can do this easily on a CRT monitor, what about an OLED monitor?

Also, what's the latest word on when these desktop OLED monitors might be available? Will they all be 16x9 widescreen or maybe also some 4:3 models?

Thanks for any info.
post #1432 of 5883
Dunedain,

That's a very good question, I'd like to know the answer also if anyone knows.

Chuck
post #1433 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunedain View Post

...
Like, for example, let's say the OLED monitor is a 19 inch 4:3 model and it has a maximum (native) resolution of 1600x1200. Could I run this OLED monitor at 1024x768 or 1280x960 if I wanted to and games would still look perfect (no visual artifact penalty for not running the games at 1600x1200)? You can do this easily on a CRT monitor, what about an OLED monitor?
...

You seem to be asking whether OLEDs are fixed-pixel displays, is that right?

If so the answer is a definite yes.
post #1434 of 5883
walt73: Well, they may technically be fixed-pixel displays, and I think LCD's are also considered this type of display, but you don't *have* to run LCD's at full native resolution all the time. But I've heard there are artifacts if you don't run them at their full res.

The question is, have OLED monitors overcome this problem, can you run an OLED computer monitor at less than it's full resolution without visual defects being introduced into the image? Are they capable of this like a CRT monitor is?
post #1435 of 5883
OLED has a continuous pixel count just like LCD and Plasma. Please, forget the CRT days as far as resolution fexibility is concerned.

If OLED or LCD or Plasma look bad when fed with a non-std resolution, get a better scaler, but keep in mind that a scaler, no matter how good it may be, can not even approach to the crispness of a perfect non-scaled feed.

Crap pc monitors have crap scalers, thus the typical gaming problem when rendering at lower resolutions (Blurryness)
post #1436 of 5883
Daviii: That's certainly bad news, makes one wish that SED monitors would come out. So you're saying that a high-end LCD or SED computer monitor will be able to scale a game actually running at less than the monitor's maximum resolution up to the monitor's native resolution without blurring artifacts and so on?

Any 19 inch LCD monitors out there that meet this standard of quality scaler (very fast response time also mandatory for games)?
post #1437 of 5883
The forcast table in post no. 1428 shows CMEL 7.6" amoled as having been in mass production since late 2008. Is it a photo frame? How is it branded? Can I turn a photo frame into a portable tv? Thank you in advanve.
post #1438 of 5883
Thread Starter 
Nanometer Graphene can be used to make better and cheaper large-area OLEDs
11 March 2010


Graphene OLED



Graphene OLED


Researchers at Stanford University have successfully developed a brand new concept of OLEDs with a few nanometer of graphene as transparent conductor. This paved the way for inexpensive mass production of OLEDs on large-area low-cost flexible plastic substrate, which could be rolled up like wallpaper and virtually applied to anywhere you want. The researchers say that Graphene has the potential to be transparent, high-performance, highly conductive and cheaper by several orders of magnitude than current ITO based solutions. Interestingly just a few weeks ago we reported that Graphene can be used to make organic lighting devices, too.

Traditionally, indium tin oxide (ITO) is used in OLEDs, but indium is rare, expensive and difficult to recycle. Scientists have been actively searching for an alternative candidate.

The next generation of optoelectronic devices requires transparent conductive electrodes to be lightweight, flexible, cheap, environmental attractive, and compatible with large-scale manufacturing methods. Graphene (a single layer of graphite) is becoming a very promising candidate due to its unique electrical and optical properties. Very recently, Junbo Wu et al., researchers at Stanford University, successfully demonstrated the application of graphene in OLEDs for the first time.

Junbo Wu, leading researcher of the development, said that they achieved OLEDs on graphene with performance similar to a control device on conventional ITO transparent anodes, which is very exciting and promising for real-world applications. Because graphene is only a couple of nanometers thick, it can give device designers more freedom.

For detailed information on this research, please refer to: Organic Light-Emitting Diodes on Solution-Processed Graphene Transparent Electrodes
post #1439 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunedain View Post

Daviii: That's certainly bad news, makes one wish that SED monitors would come out. So you're saying that a high-end LCD or SED computer monitor will be able to scale a game actually running at less than the monitor's maximum resolution up to the monitor's native resolution without blurring artifacts and so on?

Any 19 inch LCD monitors out there that meet this standard of quality scaler (very fast response time also mandatory for games)?

No, all scaling will reduce image quality especially for games. This is because it is fractional. You can't really have 1.5 pixels only 2 or 1 for example so images are blended across pixels which causes a bit of fuzzyness. Movies don't suffer as bad as they aren't as sharp as games.
post #1440 of 5883
DaveC19: One partial solution might be to run a wide-screen LCD or OLED monitor in 4:3 mode, running with black pillars down both sides.

For example, take a 24 inch LCD (or OLED, when they become available) with a native res of 1920x1200. Then run it in 4:3 mode, where only the central 1600x1200 pixels are used for displaying images. Then you can run a game at 1600x1200, with no up-scaling of the image necessary, because the monitor knows to only use the middle 1600x1200 pixels of the panel for the image, which is exactly what the game is outputting to the monitor, 1600x1200.

This has several benefits. One is that if the game was designed to run in 4:3 mode, you don't have to deal with any ugly horizontal stretching of the image. Secondly, since you are running the game at 1600x1200, as opposed to 1920x1200, you should get a nice boost in frame-rate. And because 1600x1200 res is high, but within reason, you can probably get away with running the game at this 4:3 virtual native resolution and still get decent frame-rates. And thus you don't have to resort to running the game at lower than 1600x1200 res to get higher frame-rates and then suffering with these up-scaling artifacts.

Can you run a 24 inch 1920x1200 LCD like this, in 4:3 mode (monitor does not use the 160 pixels on the left and right sides of the monitor, they are off/black all the time, only sends images to be displayed within the central 1600x1200 pixels, and all games run at 1600x1200 need no up-scaling)?
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