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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 65

post #1921 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by bway View Post

http://5magazine.files.wordpress.com...cm_lcd_111.jpg

The prospect of more affordable large screen OLED TVs has taken another step towards becoming reality with the announcement by DuPont that it has developed a manufacturing process that can be used to print large, high-performance OLED TVs cost effectively. The announcement could see OLED TVs become more widespread and affordable than the pint-sized and prohibitively-priced offerings that we have been restricted to until now. OLEDs have attracted much attention as the next big thing in display technology with their ability to provide high contrast and bright displays with high response times and wide viewing angles while remaining extremely thin and energy efficient. Because they don't rely on backlighting they eliminate the need for many of the LCD components, such as backlights and color filters. Until now, consumer products sporting OLED displays have been limited to mobile devices such as cell phones or small screen TVs like the Sony's 11-inch XEL-1 and LG's EL9500 which, at 15 inches, is the largest OLED TV on the market. Such products rely on a technique called shadow-mask evaporation to pattern the light-emitting organic molecules that make up the pixels on these displays, which is expensive and limited to small-scale displays. DuPont says that using its proprietary DuPont Gen 3 solution OLED materials will enable the manufacture of larger screen TVs as it allows larger OLEDs to be printed at cost-effective volumes while delivering the performance and lifetime that has so many people excited about the new technology. OLED displays in portable devices are available in the market today, but the current high cost of manufacturing with evaporated materials has limited market adoption and constrained OLED manufacturing for larger size displays, said David Miller, president DuPont Electronics & Communications. Now, with DuPont printed OLED materials and process technology, fabrication costs can be significantly reduced, and manufacturing can be scaled to accommodate TV-size displays. The new process DuPont developed along with Dainippon Screen uses a multi-nozzle printer that works like a garden hose to deposit inks that contain active molecules that are insoluble in adjacent layers. It prints the ink in a continuous stream, rather than droplets, and moves over a surface at rates of 4-5m per second while patterning a display. There have also been concerns about the longevity of OLED materials, but DuPont says its red, green and blue OLED materials can produce displays that can be operational for eight hours a day and last 15 years - surely long enough to survive until the next, next big thing in display technology hits the shelves.


Hopefully we will see reasonably priced 60 inch OLED screen by 2014
post #1922 of 9441
This is old news; that press release was released back in May last year - http://www2.dupont.com/Displays/en_U...e20100512.html
post #1923 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb32 View Post


As posted above, the PSP2 will have an OLED screen:

http://psp.ign.com/articles/114/1146358p1.html

The original PSP systems have a 480x272 screen resolution. So, the new screen is 4x the resolution of the original! The PSP2 screen resolution is almost identical to Sony's XEL-1 OLED TV (960x540)! Perhaps there will be a glasses free (or passive) 3D mode as well.

I wonder who Sony will be sourcing these OLED display modules from? AUO? Sony must be manufacturing some OLED displays for the PVM-740!

Samsung tablet will likely be 7" OLED around the same time.

Sony did manufacture OLED in the past. Not sure if they are resurrecting it. But this PVM 740 is really horrendous. Not surprise why it didn't sell
post #1924 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by grexeo View Post

This is old news; that press release was released back in May last year - http://www2.dupont.com/Displays/en_U...e20100512.html

LG Electronics showcase at the CES-2011 the world slimmest OLED-Television with an bezel of 2.9 mm. LG Electronics told us that this 31 inch OLED-Television will be ready for the market in 2011 also in the United states.

http://www.oled-display.net/lg-show-...-united-states
post #1925 of 9441
And, again, it's an >if< as to LG shipping in 2011. It's also going to retail for $8000-10,000. It also didn't look particularly amazing at CES.

Otherwise, let's jump up and down.

As for the above posted, 2014 for a 60-inch that's affordable? No chance at all. 2014 for a 50-inch that's only slightly insane? Maybe. If you really want a large-screen OLED TV, assume 5 years. Anything less and you will be facing either astronomical prices or small sizes. I know LG is talking up 2013, but their track record is, ahem, yeah. When the best LCD makers in the world can't deliver on their LCD promises in terms of large sizes, assume their OLED promises are that much more suspect.
post #1926 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

If you really want a large-screen OLED TV, assume 5 years.

Our youngest son is an engineer at a startup that hopes to provide OLED manufacturing equipment. When I ask him how soon I might be able to swap my 60" Kuro for an OLED of the same size, he thought it would be at least five years.
post #1927 of 9441
With 8G we will likely get 40" at $5k by 2013 Christmas. We now have $4b capex plan, now to confirm the timing with equipment orders.
post #1928 of 9441
I think OLED displays have great mass appeal, based on the successful Samsung Galaxy S phones. There are many phones similar to the Galaxy S in terms of specs, but very few phones have the Super AMOLED display.

Based on Engadget, Samsung sold 80 million phones just in Q4 2010... that's huge.
post #1929 of 9441
FWIW, I am on record projecting a ~30" TV at sub $5000 by the end of 2012.

I would consider projecting something even cheaper, but I have a feeling that tablets are going to suck up quite a bit of the supply that is coming on line from Samsung over the next year.

Slacker
post #1930 of 9441
Will Joe Six Pack buy OLED at Wal-Mart in 2015?
post #1931 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Will Joe Six Pack buy OLED at Wal-Mart in 2015?

Probably not Walmart. Walmart only carries bottom of the barrel tvs. Walmart wont carry OLED until is is VERY cheap. I will buy my first OLED tv when there is a 40" for $2000, when do you guys think this will be?
post #1932 of 9441
You can roughly extrapolate with 30% price reduction every year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

With 8G we will likely get 40" at $5k by 2013 Christmas. We now have $4b capex plan, now to confirm the timing with equipment orders.
post #1933 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by powertoold View Post

I think OLED displays have great mass appeal, based on the successful Samsung Galaxy S phones. There are many phones similar to the Galaxy S in terms of specs, but very few phones have the Super AMOLED display.

Based on Engadget, Samsung sold 80 million phones just in Q4 2010... that's huge.

They didn't sell 80 million Galaxy S phones, however. They haven't yet sold close to 80 million Galaxy S phones (although they will). And if the logic is "the phone is popular, therefore the display is popular", then LCD -- used in the iPhone -- is destined for big things.
post #1934 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
They didn't sell 80 million Galaxy S phones, however. They haven't yet sold close to 80 million Galaxy S phones (although they will). And if the logic is "the phone is popular, therefore the display is popular", then LCD -- used in the iPhone -- is destined for big things.

Good grief, dude, how in the world did you find the time to have 24,000 + posts.
post #1935 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovswr View Post

Good grief, dude, how in the world did you find the time to have 24,000 + posts.

Rogo types fast and over time has been interested in a wide range of topics. He taught me most of what I've since forgotten.
post #1936 of 9441
Rogo also joined AVS 12 years ago. And hello old friend, htwaits, good to come across you.
post #1937 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Rogo types fast and over time has been interested in a wide range of topics. He taught me most of what I've since forgotten.

Two thumbs up!
post #1938 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

They didn't sell 80 million Galaxy S phones, however. They haven't yet sold close to 80 million Galaxy S phones (although they will). And if the logic is "the phone is popular, therefore the display is popular", then LCD -- used in the iPhone -- is destined for big things.

I understand. I was just pointing out that OLED has mass appeal as a display technology, especially since Samsung Android phones aren't much better spec-wise than other manufacturers. Whereas other phone manufacturers are struggling, Samsung had a record breaking Q4 2010, a lot of which can be attributed to their increasing phone sales.

Mass appeal may have little to do with how good the display technology is. However, we all know that OLED is a great technology, and seeing that the masses also like it is a great thing.
post #1939 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Rogo also joined AVS 12 years ago. And hello old friend, htwaits, good to come across you.

I'm here somewhere, almost every day, doing almost nothing.
post #1940 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by navychop View Post

Two thumbs up!

Did you ever own a DLP RPTV?
post #1941 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by powertoold View Post

I understand. I was just pointing out that OLED has mass appeal as a display technology, especially since Samsung Android phones aren't much better spec-wise than other manufacturers. Whereas other phone manufacturers are struggling, Samsung had a record breaking Q4 2010, a lot of which can be attributed to their increasing phone sales.

Mass appeal may have little to do with how good the display technology is. However, we all know that OLED is a great technology, and seeing that the masses also like it is a great thing.

We really really really need to separate reality from fantasy. I don't wish to be rude, but I have to tell you that you made a gigantic, fallacious conclusion here.

Samsung phones outsell other Android phones because they are made by Samsung, one of the greatest brands on earth today. It is not because they have AMOLED screens. "Samsung had a record breaking quarter". Yes, they did. 90% of the phones they sold were not Galaxy phones and did not have AMOLED screens.

HTC had AMOLED screens for a long while in Droid Incredible. Google had AMOLED screens in Nexus. AMOLED screens are nice. People like them. Samsung is now replacing AMOLED with LCD in the rev to Galaxy S as they plan on attempting to keep the newer model on AMOLED -- supply permitting. Note that the lower-priced Galaxy rev is headed for first-world markets like Germany, among others.

Again, the appeal of AMOLED is real. But please stop citing things that are just not true about Galaxy phones, Samsung, etc. as proof of anything. Go out and walk up to Galaxy S owners and ask them if they even know what type of screen their phone has (most won't) and why they bought it (Android, Samsung brand, salesman recommendation would be more or less the top 3 reasons).

To me -- and this is me personally -- the best looking smartphone screen is the one on iPhone 4. It's LCD, but man it looks amazing.
post #1942 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Will Joe Six Pack buy OLED at Wal-Mart in 2015?

I predict Walmart will have a line of OLED TV's in the year 2020. Get ready for Christmas!
post #1943 of 9441
There's is a possibility that we may never see affordable large-size OLED panels.
post #1944 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

There's is a possibility that we may never see affordable large-size OLED panels.

Why not? When plasma first came out it was extremely costly.

Electronics always go down in price sometime in their lifetime.
post #1945 of 9441
OLED thus far have been full of broken promises. Manufacturing is still expensive and no one have managed to develop the inject manufacturing process.

Meanwhile, LCDs are becoming ever closer to OLED's characteristics and I fear that in 5 years, most average users may not be able to distinguish between OLED and LCD. But if 3D were to become a success, then that will definitely give OLED an huge advantage (providing LCD's pixel response doesn't dramatically improve).

In 10 years, we may see a few alternative display technologies that could threaten OLED's future. For an example, LG's QLED seems promising atm.
post #1946 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant99 View Post

Why not? When plasma first came out it was extremely costly.

Electronics always go down in price sometime in their lifetime.

Read earlier in the thread. There are posts about some "natural" roadblocks to scaling up OLEDs. Something about power distribution, IIRC. Not necessarily show killers, but real obstacles to be mastered.
post #1947 of 9441
Just met a samsung OLED supplier that say ITO power distribution is not an issue for large size. 5 organic layers will be reduced to 3 but there is still no solution to Blue half-life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

OLED thus far have been full of broken promises. Manufacturing is still expensive and no one have managed to develop the inject manufacturing process.

Meanwhile, LCDs are becoming ever closer to OLED's characteristics and I fear that in 5 years, most average users may not be able to distinguish between OLED and LCD. But if 3D were to become a success, then that will definitely give OLED an huge advantage (providing LCD's pixel response doesn't dramatically improve).

In 10 years, we may see a few alternative display technologies that could threaten OLED's future. For an example, LG's QLED seems promising atm.

The "promise" stage is over. Now is the execution stage. OLED is reality, question is how big.

As previously posted, if LCD can reach OLED's ANSI contrast then it is dead.

As in another thread, QLED as backlight sounds credible, but I wouldn't hold my breath for LG to execute a full fledge QLED display
post #1948 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

there is still no solution to Blue half-life

You say the question is "how big?" I might say it's "how long will it last?"

Cue up the that's what she said jokes.
post #1949 of 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post


The "promise" stage is over. Now is the execution stage. OLED is reality, question is how big.

Will we see a 65 inch prototype next year from Samsung??
http://www.oled-info.com/samsung-dev...-55-substrates
post #1950 of 9441
I can't wait for these new technologies! The future is so bright (ugh!). Can't wait to get a job and start researching all this new stuff!
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