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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 12

post #331 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

I thought OLEDs were supposed to be mega cheap? What's with the 11 incher for $2500?

R&D. Prices usually drop real quick after they get R&D costs back. Rembember back to how horrible LCD was and the prices back when they first came out.
post #332 of 5890
Yeah but it was never to the point of $2,500 for 11". Maybe $1,000 for 15". Oh well hopefully that will be the case. It would just suck IMHO if the things ended up costing 1/4th of what LCDs cost to make, but still cost us all multiple thousands of dollars for a nice set, just because they already know people will pay it. They know J6P will think that super thin = super $$.
post #333 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

Yeah but it was never to the point of $2,500 for 11". Maybe $1,000 for 15". Oh well hopefully that will be the case. It would just suck IMHO if the things ended up costing 1/4th of what LCDs cost to make, but still cost us all multiple thousands of dollars for a nice set, just because they already know people will pay it. They know J6P will think that super thin = super $$.

Didn't plasmas start at like $20k for 42 or so though?
post #334 of 5890
http://lifestyle.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=11112

OLEDs were supposed to be cheap and as easy to make as printing paper. The hype overinflated expectations. Will they ever be able to make a 120" diagonal OLED TV that does not weigh a ton?

I hope so.

IB
post #335 of 5890
They are taking a loss on every 11 incher sold.

They know in theory that the processes lend themselves to cost reductions. First, they'll improve the OLED materials and decide upon which formulations to use. Then they'll work on manufacturability, scaling it up and cost reductions.

In theory, they can one day build these things with something like an inkjet printer. I think they will. After all, millions of small OLED screens have been sold. We're into engineering improvements, not science.

However: In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
post #336 of 5890
Right, I'd imagine we (or at least I) had our expectations a little high with all the hype.

I for one am getting tired of these stupid-high contrast ratio numbers being advertised though. I mean there's no backlight, so the pixel can be essentially turned off. They could probably call it a 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000:1 CR if they wanted.
post #337 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigen View Post

Didn't plasmas start at like $20k for 42 or so though?

Well in 1997 Fujitsu debuted it's first commercial Plasma display the Plasmavision 42. I can't find a direct review of that model, but here is a quote from a review of it's replacement, the Plasmavision 42EP. The 42EP debuted at CES 1998. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...mascreens.html and [http://web.archive.org/web/199812030...mav/plstit.htm
Quote:


These things are expensive too! The current Fujitsu model, the 42EP, retails for $10,999. In context, though, it’s cheaper than the previous model, the 42, at $14,000, with better contrast - 400:1 vs. 70:1.

Quite a ways from a 1,000,000:1

Quote:


Also, since the screen resolution is 852 pixels wide and 480 pixels high (16x9 aspect ratio), there are a lot of pixels (e.g., x,y coordinates 398,460) which may not take at manufacturing. Since manufacturing QC allows up to three dysfunctional pixels, if you look close enough, it may look like you’ve got a couple specs of dust on your screen. At the same time, once made, pixels do not fail.

852 x 480, not too bad, and a couple dead pixels. The Xel-1's resolution isn't too shabby at 960 x 450 on an 11" diagonal screen. Pretty sure screen door is nonexistent there, not so for the Plasmavision.

I'm not saying the Sony XEL-1 is going to be a commercial success, but I'm sure that first Plasmavision set; 42", 70:1, 852 x 480, 120 cd/m2 brightness, and 30,000 hours (most MFg's were stating 20,000 hours until 2002) for $14,000 wasn't a commercial success either. And ten years later Plasma is getting to be very very good.

The real question is... Are these XEL-1's images good enough to generate the excitement and anticipation to drive the market to make the investments needed to get manufacturing hurdles for large size straightened out? keep in mind, they will get better as the technology matures. Obviously they can be price competitive at smaller sizes. It was only 4-5 years ago when LCD was said to not be cost competitive at larger sizes (40"+). There is certainly enough promise to be hopeful, probably not enough to bet a paycheck on at this point.
post #338 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobraphx View Post

The real question is... Are these XEL-1's images good enough to generate the excitement and anticipation to drive the market to make the investments needed to get manufacturing hurdles for large size straightened out? keep in mind, they will get better as the technology matures. Obviously they can be price competitive at smaller sizes. It was only 4-5 years ago when LCD was said to not be cost competitive at larger sizes (40"+). There is certainly enough promise to be hopeful, probably not enough to bet a paycheck on at this point.

I have read more than two dozen reviews of the XEL-1, and all of them were gushingly and overwhelmingly positive. Most people who have seen the tiny OLED screen were wowed by the contrast rate, color saturation, etc etc. People who look at the XEL 1 at the Sony Style stores around the country have been saying that it puts the other TVs there for sale, to shame. So yeah, I definitely think the image quality will be enough to create hype and excitement around OLED tech.

Where OLEDs will really thrive in the next two years is in the small display category, 2.8 inches to about 7". Cell phones, pmp players, mp3 players, portable dvd players, and hundreds of other personal electronic devices will benefit greatly from having a small screen that is much more energy efficient and also more aesthetically pleasing than the underwhelming LCDs.
post #339 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgreen171 View Post

Where OLEDs will really thrive in the next two years is in the small display category, 2.8 inches to about 7". Cell phones, pmp players, mp3 players, portable dvd players, and hundreds of other personal electronic devices will benefit greatly from having a small screen that is much more energy efficient and also more aesthetically pleasing than the underwhelming LCDs.

The biggest problem with this as it relates to large screen development, is that virtually no one knows or cares what kind of screen is in those devices. Consumers have heard DLP, Plasma, LCD when it comes to TV. But Probably 90% don't know if their cell has a LCD, Plasma or OLED screen. Not me, I bought my
Motorola Timeport P8767 mostly because of the OLED display. But most people don't know there is any difference between LCD in their device and OLED. So even though plenty of people already own a device with OLED I'd wager most of them have no idea. If people were informed, and you heard regularly "Boy I wish my flat panel TV was as nice as the OLED display on my xxxxx.", the larger panels would get to market faster. Hopefully the XEL-1 generates enough interest to get Samsung to throw it's hat in the ring and start selling some OLED TV's. Get a few 27" or 30" OLED's out for $10,000-20,000 each, and get them to be used on Rides in a build, or on Cribs, and generate some hype. If Snoop Dog is talking about the amazing picture the OLED screen in his ride provides, it will generate demand.

I was also thinking about the 35,000 hours of life for the initial OLED displays. There are plenty of us out there that bought the D4 and D5 based LCD front projectors. And out of us quite a few (myself included) have had one or more of our LCD microdisplay panels begin to deteriorate in 3000 to 5000 hours. In my case, the blue panle got so bad as to be really not worth watching after 3400 hours (Of course it was outside the warranty by then). But despite these problems LCD projector sales are stronger than ever. So, I don't think 30,000 hours is in any way a deal breaker to launch a new display product. Especially if it has a stunning image.
post #340 of 5890
http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20080111PR200.html
Quote:


Saint-Gobain and Novaled have demonstrated the feasibility of large-size organic light-emitting diode (OLED), based on a new high-performance metallic anode and Saint-Gobain Recherche (SGR) technology and Novaled OLED proprietary developments, according to the companies.

The goal of a two-year research cooperation program between both partners has been to develop basic technologies for white OLEDs. Researchers at SGR have created a highly conductive transparent electrode "Silverduct", bringing up to 10 times better surface conductivity than traditional indium tin oxide (ITO), the companies claimed. Thanks to the Novaled PIN OLED technology for OLEDs, samples were successfully manufactured on large area surfaces. SGR and Novaled now see the possibility to produce homogeneous OLED devices up to 100 square centimeters which will ease the manufacturing of large OLED lighting products, they said.

Traditional ITO coated glass impedes the race to large size OLED due to its limited ability to carry current over distances longer than a couple of centimeters. Therefore, for large size OLEDs, the ITO layer must be topped with a thick metallic grid to prevent a gradient of light emission caused by the sheet resistance of ITO alone (typically 30 Ohm/sq), detailed the companies. The new anode Silverduct has a sheet resistance of less than four Ohm/sq, thus enabling large size OLEDs without additional metal grids. This is an important step especially for transparent and bottom emission OLEDs in which the metal grid is visible. Additionally, by eliminating the metal grid Silverduct offers significant potential for reducing manufacturing costs, highlighted the companies.
post #341 of 5890
If OLEDs have a response time of a micro second and are a thousand times faster than an LCD, why is it that some impressions of the 11" model report really bad motion processing?

And I heard the Sony OLEDs at CES were only displaying still images...

The technology has the sample and hold effect but so do LCDs as far as I know, and the impressions sound like the OLEDs aren't even up to the current LCDs in terms of motion processing.
post #342 of 5890
Thread Starter 
Well, here's some Samsung prime beefsteak OLEDs, sizzlin' on da grill. Images are full-size and are linked to source article.











post #343 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanta View Post

If OLEDs have a response time of a micro second and are a thousand times faster than an LCD, why is it that some impressions of the 11" model report really bad motion processing?

And I heard the Sony OLEDs at CES were only displaying still images...

The technology has the sample and hold effect but so do LCDs as far as I know, and the impressions sound like the OLEDs aren't even up to the current LCDs in terms of motion processing.


Question?? Could you please post some of these bad motion reviews you have been hearing about. The only reviews and response I get from people that have actually spent time with this TV gush all over them seriously reviews and such have been blown away. I assume since OLED is new tech one would think its not perfect, who knows maybe their is a motion issue, but I think everyone would agree that any image issues like this will be corrected by the time larger displays come to the market so is this really something worth mentioning. I will not buy another TV until larger Oled come to the market. Pio and plasma promoters can quote the best plasma specs all they want from what I heard and seen no other technology is out on the market can Match what oled is doing. This years CES made me rethink my kuro purchase.
post #344 of 5890
Thread Starter 
[Breaking Down OLED TV] 2 TFTs Used per Subpixel? [Part 9]
26 December 2007



The image of the pixel structure observed: The structure differs
for R, G and B. The description in the photo is based on our estimation.


The Nikkei Electronics Breakdown Team finished measuring the display properties of Sony's OLED TV. Next, we moved on to observe the pixel structure in detail with the help from a panel engineer.

An active matrix OLED panel generally uses a TFT in the drive circuit. In contrast to an LCD panel that uses a TFT only as a switch, an OLED panel uses a TFT as an analog device to control the luminance. Thus, the variation in TFT properties is directly related to the unevenness of the luminance.

Panel manufacturers proposed a various kinds of ingenious drive circuits to cope with the problem of uneven luminance resulting from the variation in TFT properties. Many of them proposed to use three to four TFTs in each subpixel to build a correction circuit.

The latest OLED TV was highly valued by the panel engineer for its "extremely low luminance variation." What kind of pixel structure is employed in the panel?

The observation revealed that two TFTs seemed to be used per subpixel. They were believed to be provided as switching and driving devices, constituting the simplest structure. Does the TV correct the luminance variation outside the panel?

Because the TV only uses two TFTs, it has a higher pixel aperture ratio over the product using more TFTs. The Nikkei Electronics Breakdown Team estimated that the latest panel has an aperture ratio of about 75%, which is considerably high. It is likely that Sony prioritized the enhancement of aperture ratio in the designing to fully utilize the emitting material whose life is not adequately long.
post #345 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by blklacker View Post

Question?? Could you please post some of these bad motion reviews you have been hearing about.

http://hdguru.com/195/195/
post #346 of 5890
Thread Starter 
Sony said to be seeking strategic partners to produce and sell OLED panels
23 January 2008

In order to expand the OLED TV market, Sony, which released the world's first OLED TV last year, is looking for strategic partners to cooperate in the production and sales of OLED panels, according to a Chinese-language Commercial Times report.

The report also cited Taiwan-based Topology Research Institute (TRI) as saying shipments of OLED TVs will rise from nearly 4,000 units in 2007 to 3.75 million units in 2012. While Digitimes Research recently estimated that shipments of OLED TVs will grow from 2,000 units in 2007 to 18,000 units in 2008, while further shooting up to 50,000 units in 2009 and 120,000 units in 2010.

During the recently completed CES 2008 show in Las Vegas, Samsung Electronics also showcased two (14.1-and 31-inch) OLED TV models, with the company stating it will begin commercial production of mid- to large-sized OLED TVs around 2010.
post #347 of 5890
We're selling the 11inch at my work for $2300. The thing is damn amazing looking.
post #348 of 5890
It better be amazing looking for $2300
post #349 of 5890
Toshiba and Panasonic double OLED lifespan -- exceeds LCDs


[
While we love the low power consumption and ultra-high contrast achieved by OLEDs, there's one thing we hate: OLED's short lifespan. Toshiba and Panasonic are looking to change the game by announcing a new technology today that doubles the life of OLED displays. We're talking a bump from the stated 30,000-hour lifespan of Sony's XEL-1 TV to somewhere beyond that of your typical 50,000-hour LCD panel. Tosh and Panny's trick is to use a new metal membrane inside a prototype 20.8-inch panel to move light more efficiently. Let's see if this new development brings forth Toshiba's timeline for an OLED TV any.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/25/t...-exceeds-lcds/
post #350 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

It better be amazing looking for $2300

OOOOuch! Yeah, an 11"er display at that price should be able to do a "Pleasantville" act on anyone viewing.

Still, it's exciting to see OLED progressing as a future contender in the video tech arena. Looking better & better...
post #351 of 5890
As much as I love my plasma display, I'm looking forward to advancements in this display type. I'm satisfied with plasma display technology 80-90%, but who doesn't want really black blacks and improved color saturation or brightness. I'd be happy with a new Kuro upgrade until these displays mature if they are going to be better by a big margin.
post #352 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triaxtremec View Post

We're selling the 11inch at my work for $2300. The thing is damn amazing looking.


I'd love to buy one, just for the heck of it. But I can't figure out what I could possibly do with an 11 inch screen. Use it as a preview monitor for the home theater? Install it in the car (does it come with a 12 volt adapter)? I could use it as a touchscreen for my HTPC, but the resitive overlay panel would probably ruin the image.
post #353 of 5890
I just saw the Sony 11" set at a local retailer yesterday (Audio and Video Center, Santa Monica). I have to admit that it is a fantastic-looking display: deep blacks, very saturated colors. Too bad it is so small and expensive!

One day, this tech might take over, but it looks like that is still a few years away. I think that the 10-lumen-per-watt plasma will reign as king of the displays for a few years (starting late-2009), before being displaced by something else.
post #354 of 5890
Thread Starter 
Your 10-lumen-per-watt plasma tech doesn't yet exist, while OLED does. I've noticed that there is a constant stream of talk about it on this forum, yet if you read carefully the announcements of plasma manufacturers, it is a dream on their future timelines; it is what they hope for. Not what physics says you can actually get out of a UV-excited phosphor.

Personally, I don't think they will get that kind of efficiency; even if they do, it will not dispose of the flicker or PWM artifacting, or burn-in. It is a stalling tactic to try to stem the tide of the market's broad acceptance and uptake of LCD and potentially, OLED products.

Turning back again to the PDP manufacturers' development of these technologies: most are unlikely to reach production stage, because they increase the display cost. Right now PDP costs cannot compete with LCD and thus PDP is losing market share. Why would manufacturers even think of widening the loss gap by increasing their costs? Only Pioneer has done so; they have made themselves into a shining example for their fellow PDP makers on how to commit economic suicide. A review of their latest financial data will easily substantiate this statement.
post #355 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Your 10-lumen-per-watt plasma tech doesn't yet exist, while OLED does. I've noticed that there is a constant stream of talk about it on this forum, yet if you read carefully the announcements of plasma manufacturers, it is a dream on their future timelines; it is what they hope for. Not what physics says you can actually get out of a UV-excited phosphor.

Personally, I don't think they will get that kind of efficiency; even if they do, it will not dispose of the flicker or PWM artifacting, or burn-in. It is a stalling tactic to try to stem the tide of the market's broad acceptance and uptake of LCD and potentially, OLED products.

Turning back again to the PDP manufacturers' development of these technologies: most are unlikely to reach production stage, because they increase the display cost. Right now PDP costs cannot compete with LCD and thus PDP is losing market share. Why would manufacturers even think of widening the loss gap by increasing their costs? Only Pioneer has done so; they have made themselves into a shining example for their fellow PDP makers on how to commit economic suicide. A review of their latest financial data will easily substantiate this statement.

Sorry, This isn't "my 10-Lumen Tech", and can not take credit or patent fees on this nice piece of video tech. Yes, it does exist, and has been demoed at 2008 CES...just like many OLED prototypes have been demoed. Yes, Sony is producing & selling its $2500 OLED 11"er (at a loss according to Sony), and I'm sure we are only seeing the very beginning of their long climb to OLED marketshare. Still, why not applaud both video techs for their accomplishments? Competition is good for all of us mere consumers who will be forking out our hard-earned devalued American dollars on the new latest greatest. Have you purchased your Sony 11"er yet?
post #356 of 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Your 10-lumen-per-watt plasma tech doesn't yet exist, while OLED does.

So we don't have 10 lm/w plasma tech yet. But also don't have OLED in useful screen sizes yet. Both will hopefully come. So what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

I've noticed that there is a constant stream of talk about it on this forum, yet if you read carefully the announcements of plasma manufacturers, it is a dream on their future timelines; it is what they hope for. Not what physics says you can actually get out of a UV-excited phosphor.

They have already developed technologies which are supposed to make 10 lm/w work. You make it sound as if they had no idea how to realize it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Personally, I don't think they will get that kind of efficiency; even if they do, it will not dispose of the flicker or PWM artifacting

Have you ever heard of the sample-and-hold effect? If so, you will hopefully know that it affects OLED, too. So how are you going to get rid of the sample-and-hold effect with OLED? Or don't you want OLED to compete with plasma in terms of "image resolution during motion"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Turning back again to the PDP manufacturers' development of these technologies: most are unlikely to reach production stage

Ah, so because you're saying it, it must be true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

because they increase the display cost.

Funny. That's exactly the opposite of what DisplaySearch is saying:

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...Plasma_TVs.pdf

This is a research paper about plasma technology including 5 lm/w and 10 lm/w technology written by "Ross Young, Founder and President, DisplaySearch and YS Chung, Director of FPD Material and Technology Analyst, DisplaySearch."

You don't need to bash plasma technology, it's really not necessary. We're all looking forward to OLED, hoping that it will be the next big thing. But it doesn't harm if there's a backup plan. And for sure it doesn't harm if there's a technology which could force OLED makers to drop prices sooner than they'd like. So let's be happy that plasma technology is improving instead of bashing it. Competition is good for us consumers, you know?
post #357 of 5890
Thread Starter 
Of course the paper you linked to is Panasonic propaganda; though it does have some interesting information, using it as a reference guide for future market predictions would be unwise.

Indeed competition is good, but that's not going to stop me from stating my opinion on PDP technology. I believe that PDP as an economic product is doomed; first by LCD and next by the subject of this thread, OLED. The advantages of OLED are too many, and its potential easily great enough to surpass PDP.

PDP is just an absurdly inefficient way of doing what OLED does directly. The inherent quantum inefficiency of indirect stimulation (electrons -> gas -> UV -> phosphor) cannot even today compete with the efficiency of OLED (electrons -> light). Worse still, the high voltage necessary to ionize gas will forever be a hobble to PDPs as it rquires expensive, high-energy circuitry to run. I could go on but this post is about more than just the deadfalls of PDPs.

And if you think 10 Lu/W is efficient, remember that a 100W incandescent (those bulbs that are getting restricted and soon to be banned in some countries due to their gross inefficiency) gets 16 Lu/W, and 4' T8 triphosphor fluorescent 80-90 Lu/W, and metal halide 100+. In other words, PDP is less efficient than the lowliest of illuminants, a blackbody radiator (tungsten filament). Even if they could double the efficiency, it would still be miles from what OLED can achieve, and will likely fall below LCD technology of the same time frame.

The major limitation on LCD efficiency is the polarizer, which rejects 50% or more of the light. Unless a method is developed to efficiently rotate light's polarization within a small space, that is unlikely to change. One possible solution is to develop BLU LEDs which emit polarized light, eliminating the need for a polarizer.

Here is a link to polarized LED information:

POLARIZED LED
post #358 of 5890
Thread Starter 
Regarding SAH, it is not a defect but a positive attribute; flicker causes headaches, and a significant fraction of individuals can see it. Both fully held and short duty-cycle and schemes in-between have their values, depending on the use. However, not all technologies can support these different modulation schemes.

The pixels' temporal duty cycle can be varied between a very small value and completely on with OLED. PDP cannot, as it is currently designed, support continuous discharge because gas ionization is nonlinear, which is why it uses on/off PWM to obtain grayscales. That is an inherent defect of the technology, which is based on its fundamental construction and thus cannot be removed. Gas ionization works a certain way, and all the wishing in the universe won't change that.

It is possible to pulse the PDP's PWM faster to make the flicker less visible (or even invisible) but running circuits at all three: high voltage, high frequency, and high power, is a guarantee that you'll also get the other three: high cost, short life, high operating temperature.

- High cost is infeasible (see Pioneer) because of LCD competition (direct and indirect);

- Short life is infeasible because lifetimes are already too short and LCDs last longer;

- Hotter electronics can't be done because the electronics already run too hot and have a relatively high failure rate, much higher than LCD.

There is no leeway for making the situation any worse in any of these three points, because LCD has it beat in all of them.

The OLED emitter runs at low voltage, meaning electronics that are cheap, low-voltage, and low-energy (like LCD). This means low operating temperature, and thus long lifetimes and high reliability.

Depending on its design, OLED can be fully held like LCD or flicker at 60 Hz. like PDP, or anywhere in-between. OLED emitters don't have the nonlinear characteristic of PDP's gas-fill.

Finally, OLED can do something neither LCD nor PDP can: it can run at hundreds or thousands of frames per second, since the emitter has a response time in the microsecond range. This allows a third alternative, rather than the duality of SAH/flicker: using interpolation or a high-speed external signal, it can show flicker-free silky smooth motion.
post #359 of 5890
Thread Starter 
Today while thinking on the subject, I realized that if all the work that has been put into patching PDP and LCD with band-aids to mitigate their inherent defects, had instead been spent on OLED development, we would probably be able to buy 32" or larger OLEDs today.

This is not to say that such work has been a total waste, but both roads are dead-ends so the massive fixed infrastructure investment was likely ill-advised, unless it can be cheaply converted for future display production. At the moment LCD fabs are likely to be able to make OLEDs, but PDP production is just too different to make a retrofit economically feasible. The PDP makers are truly alone right now, as they have no other road to travel but the one they are on; one that ends in a clearing not too far away.
post #360 of 5890
Isochroma, large OLED screens are definitely going to happen and I personally am looking forward to that. They do offer significant advantages over PDP and LCD. But the garbage you post about PDP is really tiring. You are the Auditor55 of OLEDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Your 10-lumen-per-watt plasma tech doesn't yet exist, while OLED does. Not what physics says you can actually get out of a UV-excited phosphor.

10, even 15 lumens per watt has been demonstrated and prototyped in several different configurations. As for physics (LOL) how did you even come up with that one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

….but that's not going to stop me from stating my opinion on PDP technology.

We all know about your vocal anti-plasma opinion. But that won’t stop us from correcting you whenever you post misinformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

The advantages of OLED are too many, and its potential easily great enough to surpass PDP.

The list of OLED advantages is shrinking every year they tack on to its ever growing TTM. What will the current products be like when OLED is “finally” released in HT size displays? Maybe we should follow your style and go over OLED problems and start spouting out doom and gloom for OLED? Fact is that all technologies have some issues that others don’t (including OLED). Both OLED and SED are not perfect by any means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

PDP is just an absurdly inefficient …….blah, blah, blah……
remember that a 100W incandescent gets 16 Lu/W, and 4' T8 triphosphor fluorescent 80-90 Lu/W, and metal halide 100+…..blah, blah, blah

The efficiency of a light bulb and that of a pixel can not be compared. A PDP pixel is essentially a tiny fluorescent bulb. Using your logic it should be 80-90 lumens per watt Same goes for OLED pixels verses OLED lights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Regarding SAH, it is not a defect but a positive attribute; flicker causes headaches, and a significant fraction of individuals can see it. Both fully held and short duty-cycle and schemes in-between have their values, depending on the use. However, not all technologies can support these different modulation schemes.

You didn’t even consider OLED-SAH until I pointed it out to you, now you are twisting into an attribute. The main reason SAH is used in OLEDs is to extend lifetime. This comes at the expense of motion blur. Improve lifetime and then you can tune the duty cycle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

PDP cannot, as it is currently designed, support continuous discharge because gas ionization is nonlinear, which is why it uses on/off PWM to obtain grayscales.

What are you talking about? Gas discharge is quenched as the dielectric layers become charged. Then the polarity is reversed and the discharge is repeated. Learn how AC-PDPs work before you speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

That is an inherent defect of the technology, which is based on its fundamental construction and thus cannot be removed.

It is the principal of PDP operation, not a defect ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

It is possible to pulse the PDP's PWM faster to make the flicker less visible (or even invisible) but running circuits at all three: high voltage, high frequency, and high power, is a guarantee that you'll also get the other three: high cost, short life, high operating temperature….. Hotter electronics can't be done because the electronics already run too hot and have a relatively high failure rate, much higher than LCD

How is life reduced by increasing the addressing speed? And you may not realize this but addressing speed has been increasing every year in PDPs. Panasonic already has a 1080 line (16 subfield) 100Hz addressing speed on the market. So again, according to you this can’t be done (LOL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Depending on its design, OLED can be fully held like LCD or flicker at 60 Hz. like PDP, or anywhere in-between. OLED emitters don't have the nonlinear characteristic of PDP's gas-fill.

Too bad it is limited by the lifetime, and BTW OLED emission is very non uniform and thus leads to severe mura.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Finally, OLED can do something neither LCD nor PDP can: it can run at hundreds or thousands of frames per second, since the emitter has a response time in the microsecond range. This allows a third alternative, rather than the duality of SAH/flicker: using interpolation or a high-speed external signal, it can show flicker-free silky smooth motion.

Which will just add to the already high cost and many people don’t even like the interpolation effect (including me)
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