OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 133

Why is that an eek? I mean I haven't ordered it yet because I'm waiting to make sure there isn't a showstopper, but assuming it's better than the ST50 by the margin I expect it to be, I'll be ordering one next month.


I can't decide which is more insane: Me talking to me, or irkuck talking to me from a year ago.

As I said, I expect there to be a lot of LCDs next decade. I just doubt many videophiles are going to be buying them. Most videophiles don't buy them now. In fact, LCD has never really been the choice of the majority of videophiles when you think about it. As great as the Sharp Elite is, most videophiles buy plasmas because they are so much cheaper or because they don't like the color on the Sharps or for whatever reason.


You know me well.


It's funny, we have people in this country called "Kansans" who come from a place called Kansas. They have learned of things like fossils and geological strata and yet still deny the existence of evolution.... I find this ironic only because you brought up Keynes, which kind of looks like the word Kansas.

I don't view your remarks as trolling in any way. When you notice more optimism, I sometimes clarify the nature of said optimism.

^^ Evolution is an incomplete explanation/ theory in any case Like many discussions in AVS, things are more complicated than they look on surface. Heuristically we would love to believe there is a simple explanation so we can make sense of our environment. But we forget that in a complex chaos system that there is no singular answer but more of a "maybe", "probably", which doesn't appeal to classical deterministic views. And there are things like parents' love that don't make sense at all.

The progress of OLED is not deterministic as well. It's a probability game in a changing competitive environment. We can only guess when OLED will be mainstream, but that doesn't appeal to many. Science as a discipline and ideology has moved on, mainstream has not.


key word is "up to"

Please forgive me, but I don't understand the highlighted "but" portion of your last comment.

I was not suggesting 300ppi TVs, that would be insane. What I meant is that LCD is evolving all the time and OLED will be stressed to follow. True, one can make high-density OLEDs but let's see them first competing with LCDs. About the power consumption, Sharp claims it lowered it down for the LCD once again.


Time horizon of 10ys is speculation, what is predicted up to 2015 is couple of percent of OLED market share. That means OLED spreading up will require deep pockets from its promoters.


Heh, that fits zealotic profile of preaching theories but extremely conservative practice . Plasma??? In 2012?

Anyway, this illustrates the problem of moving target for OLED. The announced 55 inchers are now too small for high-enders to consider, even if their PQ is brilliant. So now OLED should be moving to the 65"+ segment but this too big a step for now. If and when such OLEDs appear LCD will be well established there.



Oh, no, they have designer products people are buying like crazy. But 100 billion worth companies like Facebook?



I've been consistently stating that LCD is an extremely flexible technology which is unlikely to get disposed any time soon. OLED entering now faces huge problems. e.g. the 55" OLED flagships are not impressive anymore vs. flotillas of 65"+ LCD flagships. OLED portable panels are not so impressive vs. latest high-density LCDs. IGZO is just another example of LCD flexibility, it will limit possibility of OLED entering tablets and monitors.

Besides this, OLED is projected in the minds of fantasizers as the ultimate Holy Grail tech contrasting with the proven real-life issues with the LCD. Reality should not be expected prefect.

According to people in this section of AVS, buying a plasma in 2012 is idiotic. You're at least the second person to imply this more than a little strongly.

I guess I don't get why. I'm not sure why it won't serve me for 5+ years like the last one did.

Who is now driving people absolutely bonkers over on the audio side, with subwoofers being his latest chew toy.

Thanks for being level-headed on this topic so we don't have to get into theories on origins.


Zealotry, really? That's what I would call someone who fixates on LED tech as the only viable display tech.

one of the things I learnt in life is never argue with a persistent retiree


My feel of the industry is more corporate management, strategic, investor relations and financial aspects. I hardly talk to the people on the ground. But you need people on the ground to feedback whether plasma P5 or LCD 10G is a good idea, or 3D/ 4K make sense or not.

From skeptic to "quantum leap", rogo represent the industry's sentiment towards OLED pretty well AFAIK. He is a pretty good representation how perceptions have changed. So i do follow his perception closely. Sammy made a big bet, when perceptions were unfavorable, and looks like bearing fruit. OLED devices is the main driver for their display profitability now, as per results today. LG has surprised with RGBW OLED. Others like the Japanese and Taiwanese, didn't.

" April 27 (Bloomberg) -- Samsung Electronics Co. overtook Nokia Oyj as the world’s biggest vendor of mobile-phones last quarter, ending the Finnish company’s 14-year run as the global industry leader, according to researcher Strategy Analytics.
Samsung shipped 93.5 million handsets in the first quarter, 36 percent more than a year earlier, and compared with 82.7 million for second-ranked Nokia, Strategy Analytics said in an e-mailed statement today. It’s the first time the Suwon, South Korea-based company led in phone shipments, the Boston-based researcher said.
Demand for Galaxy smartphones helped Samsung today post first-quarter net income of 5.05 trillion won ($4.5 billion), beating analysts’ estimates. Nokia last week reported a 1.34 billion euros ($1.8 billion) first-quarter operating loss after handset sales slumped."

Samsung has been pro-OLED for over 7 years. Rogo has turned his "sentiment" around in the last 6 months.

Get real.

The only people with negative outlooks on OLED have been internet commentors.

Samsung, Sony, Kodak, Dow etc have been on OLED for a very long time. They didn't stick it out this long because they thought it would fail, or not be better economically then current tech while improving tech specs.

^^ Have you heard of PM OLED? Maybe you can read this thread in entirety first, since you want to talk about history, which is as real as you can get. I could remember quite a lot of negativity on OLED since PM OLED failed to gain traction and everyone bailed out except Sammy, and with Sony's half hearted effort

Zero OLED TVs shipped in 7 years... Up to and including today.

Impressive for a "pro-OLED company".

This is biased statement. What counts are not only TV displays. Samsung did fantastic job producing OLED displays for mobile. Now TVs are just being made. This is stunning development. The problem of OLED is stiff competition from the evolving LCD.

and "if" -

Well, he's right. There aren't any OLED displays large enough to be considered home theater displays on the market.

As you said, there is stiff competition and that in part doesn't make it a definate shoe in.

What did LCD start out as? Calculator parts.

Seems many manufacturers "stuck it out" with LCD long enough to develop the replacment for CRT huh?

BTW, PM OLED failed? I think you don't understand how many devices shiped with it. Did they make a PM OLED TV? No. Did PM OLED lead to TVs? Of course it did. Development is mostly failure, but through failure you find success if you "stick it out".

AUO is promising samples of their 32" OLED television by the end of the year off of their Gen 6 pilot fab.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120427PD208.html

I dont think they have mentioned the manufacturing method for the display but AUO is going to show a 32" OLED with a IGZO TFT at SID so that seems like the best bet.

You have no idea how closely we followed mobile display driver leader Solomon Systech and SDI back then when PM OLED was introduced mainly as a secondary display on top of a clamshell, just when industry was transiting to color STN.

By your logic SED or FED TV should appear in 10 year's time and we're actually not too negative about them right now.

I never said anything about the patents of OLED, why would you bring up a display tech that was comletely stopped because of legal not technical issues?

My logic does not extend to tech stopped by legal issues.

And are you admitting pm oled was not a failure as you earlier said? Because I don't understand your attempt to marginalize a display tech that helped us get where we are today.

This is intriguing (and a bit weird). I don't see any market for a premium priced 32" TV. I wonder if they are going to show their ability to produce and then move upmarket in size or if they are going to try to make and sell a $2000 32" TV.

Worthy of watching this development because on the face of it, there's a mismatch here -- but I'm sure they have an idea of what comes next.

How about a kitchen TV where viewing angle matters?
$2K doubtful, $1K perhaps.

- Rich

The 55" OLEDs are just being made as I said, at least LG must be stocking them already for the May launch in Europe. The problem with stiff competition is in LCD price and PQ which is just good-enough. More general, LCD is highly adaptable tech, e.g. Once OLED was advertised as super-thin, now LCD is pactically matching it.


OLED kitchen TVs? Sounds joke for a product supposed to have ultra-high PQ. Anybody trying to start OLED market with TVs less than, say, 40" is damaging the OLED brand. Even the coming 55" OLEDs will face pondering "Yeah nice, but I can get same size top LCD for waaay less or get much bigger LCD much cheaper".

A 32" OLED TV suggests a focus away from the North American market. Or maybe they get a significant enough improvement in yields that they think they can price it better. Made well, it could be a hell of a nice monitor for a indie filmmaker or enthusiast digital photographer.

I'd buy a 40-42 inch OLED tv in a heartbeat,my bedroom is quite small,I'd love to replace my 10 year old LCD.I think it would be a great way to test the market on a first gen product,cost less too compared to 55 inch model.

Actually, the article says "sizes larger than 32 inches". I would pay $2000 for a 40" OLED.

Then the logic is incorrect. Tech developments had been littered with legal and IP issue, from software copyright to hardware IP infringement, in the past 30 years that I've been following the industry. OLED or even LCD are not invented by Koreans or Taiwanese. I don't even understand the lawsuit Oracle have on Google for Java (remember Open Office?)

It depends whether they have the foresight and fortitude to "stuck it out" (like you said). But without foresight, it's just a grind to financial hell, and we've seen so many of them. For every success story there are at least 9 that failed, but we don't read about it. We only read success. If board of Apple refuse to get Jobs back in 1996, Job's legacy would be a wannabe (Lisa and NeXt were not exactly a smashing commercial success) and Apple would be another Kodak. It's a fine line between zero and hero.

As such history had shown PMOLED was a total failure. It tried but didn't succeed and manufacturers avoided it like a plague, distancing themselves from bad publicity. To Sammy's credit, they continued to develop it. They were the hero in this case.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/16/s...rts-on-amoled/
-From 2008, note "small bucket of buyers"

OK, so I'll buy that there's a small -- real -- market for $2000, 40" OLEDs. I doubt the market is real at $3000, but I'm with you if they make it work for $2000. Maybe their clever plan is to carve out that niche first. Not necessarily sustainable as an advantage, but a good way to drive production and work down the learning curve.

Anyway, if AUO dives in and Panasonic dives in, it will further increase the inevitability of the TV transition. And it's probably the best defense against the Chinese invading their already profitless LCD market.

*sigh*

Guess someone needs to tell lenovo that PMOLED is a "failure" and "everyone is running away from it".


http://www.slashgear.com/color-lenov...oled-21147640/

Right... and everyone's running towards s800 then? It's a year old post...Have you got yours yet?

While Samsung mobile division been making tonnes of $ from AMOLED Galaxy S, I hardly hear Lenovo talk about PMOLED. I'll remind them the next time I talk to them.

*sigh*

By your measure E-Ink as a Display tech must be a mega success.

Samsung Galaxy S3 with 4.8" screen and 720p resolution, conveniently but probably pentile

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/sams...ne-x-50007834/

^^ Microscoped and proved pentile. It is as good as a pentile can be but illustrating OLED has still manufacturing/cost issues since Samsung was not able to put RGB.