OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 15

I believe it is difficult at this time to build large sheets defect free.

I agree completely. For me, aperture ratio is critical -- which is why I'd love to see some actual numbers; that would make the comparison among OLED, plasma, and LCD flat panel displays more precise. Do you have aperture ratios for plasma and LCD flat panel displays? I've not been able to find them. Including what you posted above, here's what I've uncovered thus far:

APERTURE RATIOS, FLAT PANEL TECHNOLOGIES:

OLED (UXGA): 75%
Plasma (UXGA): ??
Plasma (XGA): ??
LCD (UXGA): ??
LCD (XGA): ??


APERTURE RATIOS, PROJECTION TECHNOLOGIES:

3LCD, current generation (Epson D7, UXGA): ??
3LCD, current generation (Epson D7, XGA): 79%**
3LCD, last generation (XGA): 65%*

DILA/LCOS (UXGA): 92-93%

DLP, current generation (UXGA): 95%***
DLP, last generation: 91%*

*http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/1001...number=1505648
**http://www.epson.co.jp/e/newsroom/20...s_20080131.htm
***http://www.dlp.com/projectors/1080p.aspx

Yup, I see the same thick ribbing you do on PDPs -- but I'd still be very interested to see some comparative numbers for aperture ratios for plasma and LCD flat panels. For me, it makes the comparison more solid.

As an aside, I find the Pioneer's visible ribs more bothersome than those on the Fujitsu PDPs. It may be that Fujitsu has a higher aperture ratio than Pioneer. But again, it would be nice to have the actual numbers. Perhaps Pioneer made thicker ribs to get higher ANSI contrast numbers. Fujitsu, by comparison, may have been willing to sacrifice ANSI contrast to get something they (and I) value even more: a less fatiguing, smoother, less digital and more natural image. In fact, I recall the Fujitsu white paper also said that they actually wanted some bleed between the pixels. It lowers the ANSI contrast, but makes for, overall, a better picture. Too bad Fujitsu couldn't match the Kuros' blacks.

You guys shoud take some pictures like this of all the different techs (it would be interesting):

LINK

Note that for PDP, bus over rib designs and thin rib technology is possible.

Samsung unveils 31 inch OLED at CeBIT.
My french is bad but they seem to be excited.

Quick review
Quick Video - viewing angles






For the little amount of time we saw it, the TV in question was :
very bright and contrasted,
particularly reactive and with rendering superior to current LCD TVs, according to our eyes,
is extremely thin,
has almost perfect viewing angles

Well... It's a start! Moving these 11" sets will generate some good press for Sony and allow them to work out some manufacturing bugs on the sets. It will be cool when you can get a 27"-32" 720p or 1080p set for around the same $2500. That would make a great bedroom set for me!

Also, it will be cool if some manufacturers start to do 20"-24" sizes that are suited for computer use.

Either way the tech seems pretty exciting and while my next set will probably be an LCD I can see an OLED in my future (55" and up sets will probably not be readily available or affordable for at least another 5-7 years).

This has just started hitting all of the news outlets:

http://www.oled-info.com/ge/ge_demon...factured_oleds

Some GE researchers have devised a much cheaper way to manufacture OLEDs. It sounds like they are targetting "efficient lighting", not televisions.

I have the small Oled Sony TV at home since sunday night. I have to give it back next friday.

I try to mesured contrast ratio but it turn out to be impossible. In my theater room with black walls, ceilling and black carpet I don't see any light coming out of the screen when I display a 0IRE frame. Not even after a few minute. It just look like the TV is off. I try with my extech meter but it can detect any light either. That is better than my 27inch CRT TV for sure. I would quote infinite contraste ratio buy looking at this thing.

TV is very impressive. Dark scenes are gorgeous. The image remind me of my Pio plasma (6th generation) but with better shadow details. Image as a lot of punch. You can watch the TV an any angle without any picture degradation (contrary to LCD tv)

I do mesure closer to 6500k with the Warm2 setting. The expand colors setting provide with a larger gamut than the rec709 standard. It's similar to the color you get from an RS1 for example. Probably more saturated even. Normal colors seem to be better but I didn't measure the primaries and secondaries with that mode (measured were taken with a CA6X probe and the Progressive labs software)

I didn't experiment with the noise reduction or any other gadget. The excellent black could actually be annoying. I check Equilibrium on DVD. The first scene involving the cleric has him running into a dark room. The image stay black for a few seconds. On the OLED TV I could see all the bad compression artifacts. I had to crush black reducing brightness to it's 50 settings (I found 51 to be a better level with test pattern). It amazing how that notch is visible on that technology. Maybe 50 was the exact level. But my point is that a simple mistake in brightness adjustment make compression default very visible. That what you get from a 1000000:1 contrast display.

Don't know when this will be available in 50 inches size. But I'm sure it could sell even at 4 or 5 time plasma prices. This thing is tiny. It's amazing, the quality you get by looking at something that when turn off, just look like a thin piece of shinny plastic.

Bruno

Wow! Thanks for your impressions.

It sure sound like the killer type of tech that many have been waiting for. As I said earlier a 27"-32" 16x9 would be a great set for my bedroom as would a 22"-24" widescreen computer monitor.

Hopefully one day these things will be at 55" or so with a price tag in the $4000 price range. While this might sound overly optimistic just look at what plasmas have done in the past decade. OLED will go the same route and sets will get larger and less expensive.

Here's to that but black detail is more important for me - sounds good in both areas from that.

@Bruno, have you tried checking out how motion is handled? Does the Sony OLED does anything to counter the sample-and-hold effect like e.g. using black frame insertion or anything like that?

Yes, your comments are most appreciated. Merci.

I second that. On paper, it looks like it will handle motion like LCD. Waiting for viewers input to confirm.

I'm keeping the OLED for another 5 days. So I will have more time to play with it.

Gamma on the standard mode and the setting at off is at 2.1.

Good grayscale tracking but the very low IRE like 5-10-and 15 all have a pinkish grey. I don't have access to any gain or offset for individual colors so it can't be corrected. I didn't see any effect on dark scene just yet.

The Screen performs like plasma. If I take the lux reading with an IRE window I read 505 lux. If I take the same measure, but with a full field white instead, it goes down to 300 lux. I know it's the new big thing but in real time viewing it's not a problem to my eyes.
Audio sync with HDMI is really bad. Every time you change menu or change source you ear a squeaking noise. Analog audio perform way better.

It does handle 1080p24 very well. I robot via my PS3 was really fluid.

Maybe you can tell me how I can test the sample-and-hold effect. My personal feeling is that it does perform like an LCD on that regard but it is fast. No motion blur or anything.

I have a cartoon call "Reboot» I used a test screen were a green character pass in front of the screen from right to left then back. I used this shot first to check my Optoma H77 panning performance back then. But I now use it on a regular basis to evaluate how fast and accurate panning is handle with different displays. I used that scene last night on the Sony and the character was display in its full glory. The best I have seen so far. I do have the impression that I’m looking at a bunch of picture being quickly swap in front of my face. Probably because of that "sample and hold effect" you are talking about. I would like to confirm that with a more scientific method.

There is not much difference between a DVD and its HD version on that screen. Obviously the lower resolution is causing this. I also don't feel the 3D effect as much as with my plasma. But that is probably cause by the lower resolution and the size of the screen.

Dark scenes are very impressive. I check Star Wars Attack of the Clone and I never saw so many stars.

The noise reduction is very impressive. With an HQV HD DVD demo disk I ran the noise screen and the Sony internal processing eliminate them perfectly. I have the feeling it's as good if not better than a mosquito Algolith in that regard. I never use that feature usually because it soften the image. But it is still a nice feature when needed.

Bruno

I wonder how it handles sample-and-hold.

really? that was the most amazing part of your review.

man, i loved that show.

refresh rate measured in nanoseconds. Competitive larger sizes in 2-3 years.

Yeah... For the short term, OLED may be a joke, but after 2009/2010, or so, then we'll most certainly be adopting that or even SED into our homes sooner than later. (SED should be another technology to keep our eyes on).

SED is pretty much finished for good. This video tech has been deemed moot as video tech gains in Plasma & LCD tech along w/low pricing has made SED still-born. Also, the advancements in OLED has leapfrogged SED, which put the final nail in SED's coffin. Doubt seriously if we'll ever see a SED re-born, but who knows...there's been stranger things happen in the CE world.

SED has risen from the grave before. It now has a silver bullet and a stake in it. And worst of all, now a bunch of lawyers standing on it's grave to ensure dead stays Dead.

No more SED fantasies. Some of us want to believe it was the best, and we'll all be deprived of it due to (fill in the conspiracy blank). It only had marketing claims and limited demos. No proof of longevity or even PQ claims under independent conditions.

Other technologies are "more than good enough" for most people, and are further along the development/manufacturing/cost cutting curve for SED to ever catch up. They missed their window, even for professional use. Worse, new technologies like OLED have developed faster than expected, and have far greater potential for great cost reductions while delivering excellent PQ.

I stand by my claim: Years from now, displays will become cheap again, about as cheap as CRTs were when they died out (adjusting for inflation).

Yeah, you're right about HDTVs matching up with CRT SDTV pricing. Right now, your 720p LCD HDTVs are all there already. Won't be too long until 1080p replaces those 720p first-gen HDTVs that most of us already have or had. That's only the first phase in the HDTV development. Definitely gonna see if OLED will even go beyond 1080p. We may expect 1280p or 1600p out of these. Dunno if they're gonna go THAT high in resolution, but just saying.

EDIT: After seeing the Cnet review on the 11" Sony OLED, I'd have to say, even David Katzmaier (the guy who made the video review) said that it was a joke that Sony is up to their old game. He said that it was nice, BUT...it's far too overpriced, and hardly a good size for a TV for the average consumer, and it's not even an HDTV, it's only at most an EDTV, if even that... I mean, unless Sony can come up with at least a 42" 1080p OLED for that same price tag, I'm not really gonna give this tech too much thought.

If it performed like an LCD that you would have motion blur...

The sample-and-hold effect is an effect which is produced by our brain/eyes. Basically when displays are "always on" and then show moving images, our eyes try to follow the motion. But the images only move in 24fps (movie content) or 60fps (video content). Basically each frame sits still for a while and then suddenly jumps to the next position. There's no fluid change from one frame to another. Our eyes/brain don't like this approach. As a result we see the image smear a bit, although in reality the display doesn't really show any smearing. CRTs don't have this problem cause they are impulse displays. So our eyes see "black" most of the time and only once in a while a real frame. This can cause flickering. But the image stays very sharp during motion.

Ok, so how to measure this? Please check out the paragraph "Static and Motion Resolution" here:

http://hdguru.com/?p=187

oled is only compared to lcd because it has no glass. thats it.

Yeah... Shame about SED, tho. At least that looked more promising being 55", and 1080p Full HD, iirc. At least that most certainly would've been in the consumers' best interest. 11" EDTV for that price tag is a joke, imho. I'd expect to see a 42" 1080p from another brand and a technology with the same results for a price tag like that, but Sony is Sony, what are you gonna do?

Just lemme know when Sony finally gets into more comfortable price ranges and bigger screen sizes, and Full HD.