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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 153

post #4561 of 9446
How long will it be before you can buy a 65-inch OLED for $3,500?
post #4562 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

How long will it be before you can buy a 65-inch OLED for $3,500?

IMO . . . . 5 to 7 years
post #4563 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

IMO . . . . 5 to 7 years

You may in fact be correct. I'm going to go with 4-5 years.
post #4564 of 9446
DisplaySearch: only 50,000 OLED TVs will be sold in 2013, 9 million in 2016
Quote:
DisplaySearch released their 2012-2016 global TV market forecasts. They have reduced OLED TV shipments to just 500 units in 2012 and 50,000 in 2013. Meanwhile, 4K2K LCD TVs are expected to grow from 4,000 units in 2012 to 154,000 in 2013. However, DisplaySearch predicts that OLED TV growth will pickup soon afterwards to reach 9 million units in 2016:

DisplaySearch-OLED-4K2K-2012-2016-forecast.jpg

http://www.oled-info.com/displaysearch-only-50000-oled-tvs-will-be-sold-2013-9-million-2016
post #4565 of 9446
So I need to hold out until 2014 for something good...?
post #4566 of 9446
According to DisplayMate till 2017 there will only be 50''+ OLEd's. Does that means that after 2017 we will see smaller sized OLEd's or will they leave the smaller sizes to LCd tech?
post #4567 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

According to DisplayMate till 2017 there will only be 50''+ OLEd's. Does that means that after 2017 we will see smaller sized OLEd's or will they leave the smaller sizes to LCd tech?

I doubt it very much, except as computer monitors.
post #4568 of 9446
post #4569 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

How long will it be before you can buy a 65-inch OLED for $3,500?

LONG before SED! wink.gif
post #4570 of 9446
My take, from reading the above, is late 2015 before almost reasonably priced OLEDs appear, and 2017 before they are a force in the marketplace. Nevermind the wishes and hopes and fantasies.
post #4571 of 9446
I think the whole industry shot themselves in the foot by pushing OLED information on the marketplace way before anyone could ever hope to buy,let alone afford one.Once people read and saw the OLED prototypes they put off any interest in other screens.Now we are in a very cloudy limbo and if we need a new set soon its not going to be an OLED which is a big compromise after being exposed to and wanting an OLED
post #4572 of 9446
I agree. The public should just now be hearing about OLED. Today's market is dramatically different than when LCD first hit the market many years ago. Now days they should bring a new technology into play only when they can offer a realistic price from the get go.
post #4573 of 9446
Hurry up and get OLED to market!
My 2005 Sony 42" 720p HDTV slimline is waiting to be replaced....

Seriously, when time comes I will buy the best I can for $2k max in 47-50" size. Was hoping it could be OLED.


Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk
post #4574 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

I think the whole industry shot themselves in the foot by pushing OLED information on the marketplace way before anyone could ever hope to buy,let alone afford one.Once people read and saw the OLED prototypes they put off any interest in other screens.Now we are in a very cloudy limbo and if we need a new set soon its not going to be an OLED which is a big compromise after being exposed to and wanting an OLED

Oddly, for me it was the presence of the prototypes that clarified by purchase of a non-OLED after a year-plus of dithering.

I knew (a) things would take longer than people hoped (b) the size would be inadequate (c) the performance would only be "special" not breathtaking (d) the pricing would be insane.
post #4575 of 9446
^^^The view from the bottom (retail hell):

The vast majority of people actually walking into showrooms have still never heard of OLED. The percentage of folks put into a "wait and see" mode to the point that they're postponing purchases is miniscule and consists solely of those in what I'd call the "enthusiast community". Catering to that community is not profitable to manufacturers and retailers beyond the Halo effect that premium products have on lower end models--non-enthusiasts walk in and look at the VT-50 but drive home with an ST-50 in the pickup bed. They aren't going to buy a 7 or 8k tv at all, let alone a 55" one, not going to see pq improvement worth 3-4 times the price of a high end led/lcd.

Ridiculous as this may sound I think more money would be made if somebody built a big screen flat panel with a touch screen--Half the people walking in and looking at the display Samsung UN55ES8000 start poking at the onscreen icons thinking it's a touchscreen:rolleyes:
post #4576 of 9446
It should go without saying, but before worrying about a "range" of TVs, they should maybe ship just one.
post #4577 of 9446
What about this (from the same link)
Quote:
We can also reveal that Samsung Electronics Australia is currently working closely with the Hoyts cinema group and Foxtel to deliver a new level of movie streaming to a new range of OLEd TV's that will be launched in Australia in april 2013.
post #4578 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

What about this (from the same link)

Oh lord, this is the Aussie publication again? They are about the worst source going... Below Digitimes bad.

I'll wait till CES for better rumors to be honest. Hopefully someone will put a line in the sand and say, "This is our price. This is our ship date."
post #4579 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Switch has no chance to deliver this year, no.
But my house now has Feit Electric 60-watt-equivalent bulbs in it, purchased at Costco for like $12.
Waiting for Switch to provide their "vaporware" -- in more ways than one -- at prices far in excess of what many once thought might happen is akin to waiting for OLED. I can buy Switch bulbs in the next batch; just like I can buy an OLED TV in 3-5 years -- when it's readily available and the pricing is in line with the universe.
Against all odds, we were wrong. wink.gif If only the same was true for OLED! The bulb that I think is in most direct competition is the Philps L-Prize (not rated for fully enclosed fixtures), the best price of which is only $5 less (on Amazon) than the similarly lumen-rated Switch bulb.
post #4580 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Against all odds, we were wrong. wink.gif If only the same was true for OLED! The bulb that I think is in most direct competition is the Philps L-Prize (not rated for fully enclosed fixtures), the best price of which is only $5 less (on Amazon) than the similarly lumen-rated Switch bulb.

We are so far off-topic, but the frosted Switch bulb doesn't seem available for purchase yet and is $50, the unfrosted -- not suitable for most residential uses unless you like geometric patterns on your walls -- is $45. The 800-lumen Philips that isn't the L-prize bulb uses only 12.5w (instead of 10w) and is $21.50 or so. It's entirely competitive with Switch for open fixtures, has sold millions worldwide, and is less than half the price. It's ugly if you have to look at it, but most of my open fixtures wouldn't require that.

Even vs. the $35 Philips, the Switch is pricey -- and less proven. Right now, spending $10-12 on Costco bulbs just feels safer.
post #4581 of 9446
Yea, sorry, I just couldn't believe my eyes. I read from one of the retail distributors that the frosted is on the way, which I am more willing to believe than I was a month ago. I'm awaiting the 40-watt equivalent (the 60-watt equivalent has been measured to use 10w, like the L-Prize, so if the 40-watter similarly has an actual measurement of 6w, I'll be thrilled) because I have some open fixtures using other LEDs at the moment that look a bit unsightly. I'm also a big fan of the Philips bulbs. Back to your regularly scheduled OLED programming.
post #4582 of 9446
I have a number of LED bulbs, including some of the latest Philips ones. They’re all terrible.
They age far quicker than they ought to, and no one offers high wattage equivalents that are any good yet.
I’ve even had three bulbs die on me so far, rather than just dimming and losing efficiency - two of which were Philips bulbs that failed within the first 6 months!

Lighting quality is poor across the board. They are all low CRI devices, and the "better" bulbs just focus on making the apparent color of their light match a good incandescent, but not the lighting quality.
I think this is primarily because most bulbs are now blue LEDs with yellow phosphors, or a phosphor mix to convert it to which, which still leaves a big blue spike in their spectrum.

CFL bulbs offer high wattage equivalents, though they are not as efficient as you might hope - a high quality 160W equivalent still draws about 45W today.
And while CFL bulbs now offer 95+ CRI, that is with "daylight" bulbs that are 5000K or higher, rather than warmer bulbs. (Incandescents are around 2700K)

Most bulbs don’t do a great job dimming either - CFl or LED - because they use PWM dimming, which is efficient for both energy consumption and heat output, but causes the bulbs to have a lower duty cycle and flicker more. (This is particularly problematic with LEDs which have faster switching rates and less persistent phosphors.

As much as I want to be efficient, for anywhere that lighting color/quality matters, I am stuck using halogen lamps now, which are only slightly more efficient than Incandescent bulbs, put out a lot of heat, and a lot of them have a tendency to buzz when dimmed.
post #4583 of 9446
I was hoping we didn't have to go there, but Pandora's box is already open, and OLED information is not exactly pouring forth. smile.gif I am not so picky, nor have I used the bulbs for any significant lengths of time to have any fail. wink.gif Bluish hue doesn't necessarily bother me either. In terms of Philips failures, they at least offer an extended 6-year warranty, which certainly provides some peace of mind. Were your Philips that failed used in any enclosed luminaires? As I'm sure you know, heat's the quickest way to a premature death of these bulbs (aside from power spikes). I have had some bulbs from other brands develop defects (Miracle LED), but their low power usage (4.5 to 5.5 watts) is enough to enable me to overlook it.
post #4584 of 9446
OK, I'll help keep this thread off topic.

I had 5 inch recessed lights which I replaced with these from CREE:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202899615/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=cree+light&storeId=10051#specifications

They are subsidised in MA. We took them apart and there are 3 active blue/yellow phosphor LED's and 2 red LEDs.

As you dim them, one blue is turned off and the reds are intensified.
This produces better dimming. They are a bit different and there is color shift as you dim, but I have grown to love them.
The 4 inch fixtures appear to be a newer design and dim better than the 6 inch.

One thing I have noticed about LED's is the produce a more directional light with defined shadows than a traditional frosted buld.
More light is bounced off your room. So if you have a blue room you get blue light. My girls room has pink bedspreads so the room it pink.
There is room color gain regardless of the color tempurature of the light.

For bulbs, these work best in my closed globe fixtures:

http://1000bulbs.com/product/63392/LED-A19135H27.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=LED-A19135H27&utm_content=LED+Light+Bulbs+-+60+Watt+Equal+-+2700K&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=CMnNvqPXzrMCFdKd4AodcQ4AUA

The Definity bulb at 2700K have good color and are truely multi-directional.

- Rich
post #4585 of 9446
I have some Cree led bulbs with a CRI of 90. I have had them a couple of years now. Great light output but they interfere with VHF reception. Light goes on, TV channel goes away. Light goes off, TV channel comes back.
post #4586 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

OK, I'll help keep this thread off topic.
I had 5 inch recessed lights which I replaced with these from CREE:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202899615/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=cree+light&storeId=10051#specifications
They are subsidised in MA. We took them apart and there are 3 active blue/yellow phosphor LED's and 2 red LEDs.
As you dim them, one blue is turned off and the reds are intensified.
This produces better dimming. They are a bit different and there is color shift as you dim, but I have grown to love them.
The 4 inch fixtures appear to be a newer design and dim better than the 6 inch.
One thing I have noticed about LED's is the produce a more directional light with defined shadows than a traditional frosted buld.
More light is bounced off your room. So if you have a blue room you get blue light. My girls room has pink bedspreads so the room it pink.
There is room color gain regardless of the color tempurature of the light.
For bulbs, these work best in my closed globe fixtures:
http://1000bulbs.com/product/63392/LED-A19135H27.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=LED-A19135H27&utm_content=LED+Light+Bulbs+-+60+Watt+Equal+-+2700K&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=CMnNvqPXzrMCFdKd4AodcQ4AUA
The Definity bulb at 2700K have good color and are truely multi-directional.
- Rich

The reviews on the homedepot site says that when they're dimmed, they turn green.
post #4587 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

The reviews on the homedepot site says that when they're dimmed, they turn green.
The Philips L-prize bulbs are amazing - they shine light above and below. They look far better than CFL's, better color, too. Shame they are so expensive ($40+). You get what you pay for. The L-Prize bulb got a strange heatsink and remote phosphor, but it's got an amazing incandescent-looking light, both above and below. These particular bulbs don't have a noticeable "color-amplification" effect, at least to my eyes.

I have found that the LED bulbs that aren't directional, while still being bright, are generally more expensive.

Tomorrow's high end LED bulbs (5+ years from now) will likely be color-temperature tunable, and they'll automatically lower color temperature in a high-quality manner when you dim. Getting that romantic reddening effect during dimming. Eventually you won't tell the difference from incandescent, except for the lack of infrared radiation. Just watch the industry. Some are already attempting this, execution will improve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkeegan View Post

I have some Cree led bulbs with a CRI of 90. I have had them a couple of years now. Great light output but they interfere with VHF reception. Light goes on, TV channel goes away. Light goes off, TV channel comes back.
My Philips bulbs doesn't have this effect. It's the fault of the LED driver and not adequately testing the LED driver for RFI effects. The Cree LED's (manufacturer of the LED chips themselves) are very nice, but a great LED driver also makes or breaks things too! Did you report this issue to Cree? They might give you a free replacement 'fixed' bulb for the courtesy of reporting this! (A video helps, too)
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 11/15/12 at 5:23pm
post #4588 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

The reviews on the homedepot site says that when they're dimmed, they turn green.
Since they blend the color they have color shift that is not as linear as an incandescent light.

I really like them and step smarthome dimmers to select the levels I like.
Most go quite redat the lowest levels. A single color LED cannot match.
Home Depot takes returns, if you have recessed lights it is. Worth a try.

- Rich
post #4589 of 9446
I did contact Cree but their engineer never returned my calls.
post #4590 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

The Philips L-prize bulbs are amazing - they shine light above and below. They look far better than CFL's, better color, too. Shame they are so expensive ($40+).

They are noticeably better than the "non-L-Prize" bulbs in your mind?
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