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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 154

post #4591 of 9438
What have I done? smile.gif The L-Prize are brighter than the regular Philips 60-watt equivalent, and they do it with less power. Didn't do a side-by-side comparison of the color or light dispersion differences.
post #4592 of 9438
Sound And Vision Magazine stated this month that Oled may not ship till late 2013.
post #4593 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Sound And Vision Magazine stated this month that Oled may not ship till late 2013.

This would not be shocking, but if we are discussing a print magazine, they developed this belief months ago, so it's speculative and old. If you mean the website, it's still speculative, but again wouldn't be shocking.
post #4594 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

They are noticeably better than the "non-L-Prize" bulbs in your mind?
Yes. CRI 93 -- light is noticeably better than the non-L-prize Philips Endura bulbs (which were already pretty good at CRI 85). It's one of the few LED bulbs whose light looks perfectly incandescent to my eyes -- at normal brightness, when illuminated inside a lampshade, glass ball enclosure (or anything that hides the strange looking bulb), I really can't tell the difference between it and an incandescent.

It only really becomes apparent it's an LED only if I dim it significantly, less than 50% brightness. That's to be expected -- no LED's I've seen has yet simulated the reddening effect perfectly (for now). Also, they are durable -- they're less likely to fry themselves in an enclosed fixture than most LED's, many people have put these in enclosed fixtures without problem and without burnouts (Even though the instructions still says it's not recommended; go ahead if it's the L-prize bulb). The warranty on them is also a little more generous than normal too. Phiips did the "oven test" during the L-prize evaluations (in this test; all CFL's burnt out, while all L-prize bulbs kept shining); they survive higher operating temperatures than the average LED bulb; they switched from ribbed heatsink-base (of the 2010 model) to the smooth-white-painted-metal heatsink base (of the 2012 model) since less heat dissipation is needed for this model. More R&D than normal went to the L-prize bulb than most brands of LED bulbs, and it _really_ shows in its quality (And unfortunately, the price, too.)

(One note: Make sure your dimmer is compatible with the bulb, get one bulb to test with.)
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 11/17/12 at 8:51pm
post #4595 of 9438
^Yea, that's kind of the thing that stops me from using them in enclosed fixtures, Philips' own warning. I figure they must have printed it on both the packaging and the bulbs themselves for good reason, lol. Guess I'll be waiting for Switch still. wink.gif Philips 6-year warranty, though, is nearly enough to offset any fears of using inside an enclosed fixture (though would the warranty be honored if they determined you were using the bulb outside recommended operational parameters?). Too many questions, lighting isn't what it used to be (but heck if it isn't much more exciting).
post #4596 of 9438
I'll mark my calendar for 2017. But by then we should have OLED lighting.
post #4597 of 9438
Here's an interesting marketing concept for OLED by LG for those who might be interested in checking it out. Some rather clever browswer animation.

http://www.lgoled.tv/index.html

It says the sets are "coming soon".
post #4598 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Here's an interesting marketing concept for OLED by LG for those who might be interested in checking it out. Some rather clever browswer animation.
http://www.lgoled.tv/index.html
It says the sets are "coming soon".

I guess that's cool. I doubt it's going to help them sell really expensive TVs to be honest.
post #4599 of 9438
Just as a casual enthusiast, I'd be happy with OLED finally making the scene in late 2013 if it meant that LG/Samsung/Whoever decided not to bring OLED sets to market unless they were "UltraHD". This to me makes the most sense, as with the 4K/"UltraHD" rollout looming, buying an uber expensive OLED set that's 1080p would be sort of a huge let down once "UltraHD" material became available.

Plea to LG/Samsung/Whoever: If you're going to release a usable size OLED panel (24" or greater), make sure it's UltraHD.

Chuck
post #4600 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky2 View Post

Just as a casual enthusiast, I'd be happy with OLED finally making the scene in late 2013 if it meant that LG/Samsung/Whoever decided not to bring OLED sets to market unless they were "UltraHD". This to me makes the most sense, as with the 4K/"UltraHD" rollout looming, buying an uber expensive OLED set that's 1080p would be sort of a huge let down once "UltraHD" material became available.
Plea to LG/Samsung/Whoever: If you're going to release a usable size OLED panel (24" or greater), make sure it's UltraHD.
Chuck

i think this was discussed earlier in this thread, and i believe most thought that at least the gen 1 oled sets will be 1080p
post #4601 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i think this was discussed earlier in this thread, and i believe most thought that at least the gen 1 oled sets will be 1080p

It's in fact impossible to change that right now.

And it's hugely ironic, I think, given there are 5" OLEDs that are 1920 x 1080. So when someone tells you, "it would be too hard to do a 55" that is 4K", please feel free to mock them for being stupid. It would have been easy if they had just started that way several years ago as they built toward this moment. But they were shortsighted.

Now, OLED will ship and will instantly be "backwards" technology. Low resolution and small, while simultaneously being hugely expensive.

The hot products at CES are going to be the gigantic 4K TVs, even though they will be entirely unaffordable at $20-25K.

Even the 75" Samsung is likely to excited more people than the 55" OLED that people saw last year, were promised for last year, and will be promised again for sometime this year at some astronomical price.
post #4602 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The hot products at CES are going to be the gigantic 4K TVs, even though they will be entirely unaffordable at $20-25K.
Even the 75" Samsung is likely to excited more people than the 55" OLED that people saw last year, were promised for last year, and will be promised again for sometime this year at some astronomical price.

Hisense is suppose to have a 65" 4K in the US for $3500 early next year. I know that is not as big as some 4K models, but very reasonable for new tech. The great thing is prices on 4K sets are going to fall fairly quick, especially as compared to OLED. Just read some where that Foxconn wants to get into the 4K business and make large 4K sets from 80" to an amazing 130".
post #4603 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Now, OLED will ship and will instantly be "backwards" technology. Low resolution and small, while simultaneously being hugely expensive.

I would always prefer an OLED TV with FullHD!

in fact, there is still no 4K content available. 4K is nice for people who want to touch her nose on the screen rolleyes.gif so....4k for what?


Full HD OLED is definitely no "backwards" technology for the next 3-4 years.
post #4604 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic1988 View Post

I would always prefer an OLED TV with FullHD!
in fact, there is still no 4K content available. 4K is nice for people who want to touch her nose on the screen rolleyes.gif so....4k for what?
Full HD OLED is definitely no "backwards" technology for the next 3-4 years.

Hold off judgement until you actually see one with studio quality 4K materiel. Many here might pick the OLED, but Joe Consumer would not. I would wager that if you put even a lowly $3500 Hisense 65" 4K TV up against a $10,000 LG 55" OLED, eight out of ten would pick the 4K. It will be interesting to see if the 84" Sony 4K and 55" LG OLED make the next big video shootout at VE, and which one comes out on top.
post #4605 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Hold off judgement until you actually see one with studio quality 4K materiel. Many here might pick the OLED, but Joe Consumer would not. I would wager that if you put even a lowly $3500 Hisense 65" 4K TV up against a $10,000 LG 55" OLED, eight out of ten would pick the 4K. It will be interesting to see if the 84" Sony 4K and 55" LG OLED make the next big video shootout at VE, and which one comes out on top.

I actually agree. Two things that people don't realize when they are at the store looking at tvs is the store lighting is terrible and likely won't show the benefits of the oled nearly as much as in the normal home enviroment (part of the reason why people don't look very hard at plasmas) and that people usually stand closer to the tvs in the store than they ever will be at home. Therefore, the 4k set is going to shine. Then again, it will depend on which source material they are playing on it. I would imagine the store would be smart enough to play some kind of 4k demo material, but then again........
post #4606 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic1988 View Post


Full HD OLED is definitely no "backwards" technology for the next 3-4 years.

It sure as hell isn't "forwards" technology.

Same pixel count as we've had for more than 10 years, marginally improved contrast... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
post #4607 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Hold off judgement until you actually see one with studio quality 4K materiel. Many here might pick the OLED, but Joe Consumer would not. I would wager that if you put even a lowly $3500 Hisense 65" 4K TV up against a $10,000 LG 55" OLED, eight out of ten would pick the 4K. It will be interesting to see if the 84" Sony 4K and 55" LG OLED make the next big video shootout at VE, and which one comes out on top.

I was at IFA this year and i saw the LG 84inch 4k, the Samsung 70" prototype and the Sony 4k. And of course both OLED´s and i would choose the OLED. why? infinite contrast, deep blacks and a sleek design. 4K is "nice to have" but OLED is awesome in ANY screen size and in ANY resolution (for me). in comparison with the 75" LED from samsung is the ES9500 OLED the winner. i´ve spoken with some other visitors at the samsung booth who saw the OLED and the 75" LED and they said exactly the same. however.... maybe here in europe it´s not like in america: "bigger=better" biggrin.gif
post #4608 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It sure as hell isn't "forwards" technology.
Same pixel count as we've had for more than 10 years, marginally improved contrast... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

marginally improved contrast??? u kidding me? rolleyes.gif do you ever saw an OLED TV with your own eyes?? rolleyes.gif
post #4609 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic1988 View Post

marginally improved contrast??? u kidding me? rolleyes.gif do you ever saw an OLED TV with your own eyes?? rolleyes.gif
He has.
post #4610 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic1988 View Post

I was at IFA this year and i saw the LG 84inch 4k, the Samsung 70" prototype and the Sony 4k. And of course both OLED´s and i would choose the OLED. why? infinite contrast, deep blacks and a sleek design. 4K is "nice to have" but OLED is awesome in ANY screen size and in ANY resolution (for me). in comparison with the 75" LED from samsung is the ES9500 OLED the winner. i´ve spoken with some other visitors at the samsung booth who saw the OLED and the 75" LED and they said exactly the same.
however.... maybe here in europe it´s not like in america: "bigger=better" biggrin.gif

It absolutely is important to me. 55inch is my latest bedroom size (only because I won't give away my 55 XBR8 when I replaced it with the Elite 70).

Size is important to many these days and I think the trend is growing. I love my 70 but it too is almost not enough. 80 seems to be perfect in my eyes. I really do think 80 would be the end of questioning size for me regardless of tech. Don't get me wrong, 70 is awesome but just like speakers, upgrade upgrade until you find that speaker that is finally it. Thank gosh I'm there with speakers but think it will take 80 to finally be done for a bit. Don't have room for projector. I could never trade DOWN to a 55 OLED from a 70 Elite just because it's OLED. My Elite doesn't suck that much. 70 is just not that big when hung on wall although quite nice no doubt. You really don't need that much realestate and 8 to 10 feet back is fine. Moving back to 55 regardless of tech is just crazy after having a larger display. No can do.

Guess I am put until an 80 OLED comes along (and oh gosh make it from someone other than Samsung) to replace my 70. Maybe it will be an 80 4k Elite(fingers crossed for Sharp, Sony and Panasonic) and maybe not even OLED. We will see. Size matters! Those that say tech over size I say bullxxxx (higher end) but nice OLED is starting at 55. Good stuff coming in 2013 I bet.

And Happy Thanksgiving all!

Rick
Edited by Mr.SoftDome - 11/21/12 at 6:55pm
post #4611 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Hold off judgement until you actually see one with studio quality 4K materiel. Many here might pick the OLED, but Joe Consumer would not. I would wager that if you put even a lowly $3500 Hisense 65" 4K TV up against a $10,000 LG 55" OLED, eight out of ten would pick the 4K. It will be interesting to see if the 84" Sony 4K and 55" LG OLED make the next big video shootout at VE, and which one comes out on top.

I'd agree with this logic.
Market is driven by Joe Consumer and not "us" who knows what those buzzword means like uniformity, black / white level clipping, real contrast ratio, dynamic range, half tones, D65, etc
Marketing is already invented infinite contrast
Unfortunately for "us" it'll be the same as megapixels war in digi cameras regardless of picture quality. Think about iPhone with 8 mp vs DSLR with 6 mp and try to explain to Joe Consumer why cool iPhone produces worse pictures vs DSLR
post #4612 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Moving back to 55 regardless of tech is just crazy after having a larger display. No can do.
Rick

I agree.

But when you came from a 55" or a 60" set it´s not really a downgrade. here in germany is 40" for the most people really BIG biggrin.gif (not for me)
55inch is since 3 years my favourite screen size.
post #4613 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic1988 View Post

I agree.
But when you came from a 55" or a 60" set it´s not really a downgrade. here in germany is 40" for the most people really BIG biggrin.gif (not for me)
55inch is since 3 years my favourite screen size.

Why? German living room walls only 3 feet wide? tongue.gif I hear ya but even my 80 year old mom has a 42 and that's so 2006 biggrin.gif

Take care!

Rick
Edited by Mr.SoftDome - 11/21/12 at 5:38pm
post #4614 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic1988 View Post

marginally improved contrast??? u kidding me? rolleyes.gif do you ever saw an OLED TV with your own eyes?? rolleyes.gif

Marginally, yes. The ANSI contrast on existing TVs is already great as is the on/off. OLED will be freaking amazing on ANSI, but sets like the Sharp Elite and Sony 950 are so good, the difference to humans will be very, very small. True on/off -- intrascene dynamic range -- is not a real problem for most content. Your eye cannot adjust fast enough, nor do you want "daylight brightness" from your display. It's actually painful. Marginally improved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

He has.

Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikek753 View Post

I'd agree with this logic.
Market is driven by Joe Consumer and not "us" who knows what those buzzword means like uniformity, black / white level clipping, real contrast ratio, dynamic range, half tones, D65, etc
Marketing is already invented infinite contrast
Unfortunately for "us" it'll be the same as megapixels war in digi cameras regardless of picture quality. Think about iPhone with 8 mp vs DSLR with 6 mp and try to explain to Joe Consumer why cool iPhone produces worse pictures vs DSLR

Joe consumer is onto something here. He/she loves retina displays. He loves big screens. Accurate color is more or less available yet virtually no one pays for calibration to get truly accurate color on mainstream displays. You have people all over AVS railing against accurate color and claiming it isn't even a real thing.

I don't know about the rest of you, but as much as I want an OLED, I would in a second prefer a really good top-end LCD or plasma at 80" to any kind of 55" anything. Hell, I bought a 65" because the idea of something as tiny as 55" was ridiculous to me.

Honestly, I think these first-generation OLEDs are going to be a total bust in the market but so do the manufacturers. They are going to make very, very, very few of them and sell them to rich people and egomaniacs (some overlap in that Venn diagram). Hopefully beginning in 2014, we'll get something better. Hopefully, in 2013 they will at least ship something at all.
post #4615 of 9438
On the other hand, I'm still using a 50-incher, so I do hope these 55" treasures arrive before I get the upgrade itch to something more gargantuan.
post #4616 of 9438
Going from 50" to 55" is not going to be satisfying, really. I mean it might not be unsatisfying, but it'll barely feel like an upgrade. Of course, the quality upgrade might be nice.
post #4617 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky2 View Post

Just as a casual enthusiast, I'd be happy with OLED finally making the scene in late 2013 if it meant that LG/Samsung/Whoever decided not to bring OLED sets to market unless they were "UltraHD". This to me makes the most sense, as with the 4K/"UltraHD" rollout looming, buying an uber expensive OLED set that's 1080p would be sort of a huge let down once "UltraHD" material became available.
Plea to LG/Samsung/Whoever: If you're going to release a usable size OLED panel (24" or greater), make sure it's UltraHD.
Chuck

"Better" is the enemy of "Good Enough."

If you keep holding off to make it "better" you will never get anything to market.
post #4618 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxic1988 View Post

I would always prefer an OLED TV with FullHD!
in fact, there is still no 4K content available. 4K is nice for people who want to touch her nose on the screen rolleyes.gif so....4k for what?
Full HD OLED is definitely no "backwards" technology for the next 3-4 years.

Just saw the 85" 4K display over at Sony for the first time on Long Island. It was very impressive as you got very close. At 1 foot the amount of detail was truly incredible as the picture refused to break down. The 4K demo material was well done and obvious care was taken to show off this beast as well as they could, but the beauty was largely evident only upon close inspection. Once you backed off to a normal viewing distance, most would never notice they were looking at 4K. It was impossible to tell how good the black levels were given the bright conditions of the store.

Based on what I saw, 4K will be a really tough sell. Proof? I spent about 20 minutes simply watching people reacting or not reacting to the display in the relatively crowed Sony store. I would say that more than 90% of the people I observed simply walked right passed it or simply gave it a casual glance. Some of those that saw the big "4K" banner, went over and took a closer look. However I can honestly say, based on what I saw at that store, people were not impressed. Without a question I was the only one at that time that exhibited a high degree of curiosity.
post #4619 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Just saw the 85" 4K display over at Sony for the first time on Long Island. It was very impressive as you got very close. At 1 foot the amount of detail was truly incredible as the picture refused to break down. The 4K demo material was well done and obvious care was taken to show off this beast as well as they could, but the beauty was largely evident only upon close inspection. Once you backed off to a normal viewing distance, most would never notice they were looking at 4K. It was impossible to tell how good the black levels were given the bright conditions of the store.
Based on what I saw, 4K will be a really tough sell. Proof? I spent about 20 minutes simply watching people reacting or not reacting to the display in the relatively crowed Sony store. I would say that more than 90% of the people I observed simply walked right passed it or simply gave it a casual glance. Some of those that saw the big "4K" banner, went over and took a closer look. However I can honestly say, based on what I saw at that store, people were not impressed. Without a question I was the only one at that time that exhibited a high degree of curiosity.

My guess it the $25,000 sticker price prevented "Joe Consumer" from giving it more than a passing glance. You yourself an AV enthusiast, was probably one the few that even knew what they were looking at. Once you see a real 4K studio master of The Amazing Spiderman on that set the difference will be obvious versus an 80" or 90" Sharp running the regular 1080p, especially at the recommended 1.5PH.
post #4620 of 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Going from 50" to 55" is not going to be satisfying, really. I mean it might not be unsatisfying, but it'll barely feel like an upgrade. Of course, the quality upgrade might be nice.
I'm holding out on that improved contrast ratio to impress, but I have a suspicion plasma (under Pioneer's flailing banner) might have one more trick to deliver (and at a greater size naturally) before that's feasible. I'm pretty content with my current set at 6 to 7 feet out, so I'm in no rush.
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