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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 167

post #4981 of 9446
Quote:
It's not an issue of not being videophiles or not, though certainly most of the older generation don't seem to care - at least not in my experience. Does HD cable cost more than SD? There's your reason. The content is the same, why should they pay more for it?
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Same problem. Blu-ray costs most than DVD

??? What is you definition of videophile? How many people do you know who call themselves videophiles who don't have a blu-ray player, or who only watch SD from cable? Or at least did a few years ago. Both cable providers here include HD channels in your package for free, and all OTA, though very few seem to know it still exists, is HD.

I used the term videophile because scottylans seems to be one. Maybe you include a lot of people who switched to HD packages and bought blu-ray players a few years ago who you do not consider videophiles?
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The content is the same, why should they pay more for it?
Assuming you have to, you'd pay because you ARE a videophile and the quality does matter.

You seem to be arguing with me, or at least disagreeing with me, but you seem to agree with me except over the term videophile?? Or what am i missing?




Edit: added in on last sentence
post #4982 of 9446
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Originally Posted by sstephen View Post

From that statement, I think it is safe to say you have a bias against LCD smile.gif
Except that people HAVE been putting up with the "poor quality of LCD" for years.

I think the reason for that is, not surprisingly, most people aren't videophiles. You can go back in the avs archives and find myriad stories of people who had purchased a new 1080 or 720 display and still had it hooked up to SD cable, not even knowing it, at least until the poster pointed it out.

And many of those are/were watching plasma. Whod'a thunk. wink.gif
post #4983 of 9446
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Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

If the United States gave China Taiwan in exchange for producing cheap OLEDs would that stop the world wide LCD Army?

I'm for ANYTHING that stops LCD!

Man, is this getting old. Some just love to live in the past. rolleyes.gif
post #4984 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

That's where we strongly disagree. To say that the best LED/LCDs are of 'poor' quality, is just a very naive statement.

I owned nothing but plasmas, including two Kuros. I now own the Sharp Elite. I have no biases or predispositions, I'm simply looking for the best PQ, and yes, I am a videophile. In fact there are many 'videophiles' that own the Elite. To see a calibrated Elite and still retain the opinion that this tech is of 'poor quality', would be the height of denial IMO. Does the tech have negatives? Of course, every tech does. I would not recommend an Elite (or most LED/LCDs) for those that require wide viewing angles. However if someone doesn't have that criteria on their 'must have' list, you bet I'd recommend an Elite if PQ is very high on their list.

To make a blanket statement that this tech is of poor quality, is living in the past.


Not really, I've seen LCD with my own eyes, it's inferior rubbish, I can not stand it in the slightest.
I need only open a few JPG files on my plasma in the lounge to see it blow away and LCD for colour, black levels. They simply don't compare.
post #4985 of 9446
^While I'm not the least bit interested in LCD (the price premium to get something on par with Plasma is not worth it to me), I think you are painting a tad broadly with your subjective brush. For the vast majority of panels, I couldn't agree more, however.
post #4986 of 9446
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Man, is this getting old. Some just love to live in the past. rolleyes.gif

Hope Artwood likes live theatre.
post #4987 of 9446
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

No no no, I should have been more clear: I'm claiming that recently much of the mood seems to have changed here. In the last month or less.

It's post-CES euphoria. We had it last year, too. Once people again come to grips with the fact that Sony and Panasonic didn't announce anything (and they didn't) and that Samsung didn't announce a ship date (and they didn't) and that LG has one model coming out at $12,000, it'll die down.
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Originally Posted by navychop View Post

Follow the money. If they're investing a bil or more, they must know something. You don't get that kind of budget without being VERY convincing. They aren't showing all their cards.

The thing is -- and this is confusing I know when people read the "news" from OLED hype sites -- LG didn't say anything about investing big money in OLED. LG display announced flat capital spending vs. last year. Last year, they produced essentially zero OLEDs. I know some people think they are moving all the capex over to OLED, but we don't actually know that.

The most correct thing you said there, IMO, navy, is "they aren't showing all their cards".
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

I'm not in display panel industry either, I just read a lot and like to make some somewhat educated guesses.

Yes it's based on the assumption that there will be a lot of large, 4k, inexpensive and possibly igzo panels coming out of china in 2 years, as well significant improvements in the quality of lcd/led panels coming out of Korea, Taiwan, and possibly Japan if sharp makes it.

If you can get 80 - 110" 4k, igzo led panel for $2500-3000 by the end of 2014, and oled only offers signifcantly smaller panels at 2-3 times that price, I think the panel manufacturers will abandon it for the next hoped for great tech breakthrough.

And Rogo, yes I'm talking about television displays only, and by affordable, I'm talking, using today's prices, Sony hx 900 and sharp elite series local dimming arrays price points for oled in 2 years.

So by that we mean $4000-5000 for 65" sets.

What's interesting about that is (a) I think that's very doable (b) those volumes are so tiny I don't think it achieves anything for OLED.

People again get confused, "Why can they make an LCD that's so low volume, but not sustain an OLED business like that?" The answer is, the LCD uses the same basic part from a fab making millions of screens annually. The OLED would basically move at most a few hundred thousand at that point. That's not going to actually work economically. You can't both price that low and have volume that low in OLED. It's the Catch-22 we've been discussing from the beginning. At some point you need to price low enough to push volume to push down the learning curve.

The "how" of getting there is why there is still uncertainty this happens, even though a lot of people want it to happen very badly. Again, it's worth remembering that in TV, there was an entire computer ecosystem to leverage off of and they started out TVs in the 32" range using those very same fabs. It took years for larger motherglass and 40" TVs to go from "we have this coming" to actually being for sale. Samsung, I believe, showed it at CES three years running. OLED doesn't get that luxury. At some point, someone just has to go for it.

Once they do, they almost have to blow past the $4000-5000 price level and head straight for $3000-3500 (or, to be accurate, some small premium to the street price of the Samsung x8000 line and whatever the equivalent is from Sony). Even that spot won't hold for very long.
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

As far as I see it now OLED is survival game. LCD, even at 4K, is becoming commodity dominated by Chinese prices and zeal. Other manufacturers to survive must go into something much more sophisticated. Samsung and LG have very deep pockets to pump gazillions into OLED due to the structure of their conglomerates and hidden subsidies. In the end they may prevail but on pure economic grounds the technology would never pick up. But there will be another level in such considerations if Chinese show their own full range of OLEDs at next-year CES biggrin.gif. Then again, with their prices and zeal OLED may still win tongue.gif.

So the question is, what's the prize here? Samsung and LG are currently in the "we play in every sandbox" phase. But that won't last once they come to realize that profits are more interesting than revenues. It seems that day is coming as they spin off their display divisions in whole or in part.
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Originally Posted by scottylans View Post

As someone who would never ever consider owning an LCD and will only use plasma, the fact OLED will render both null and void in quality, completely excites me. It's a fantastic technology

It is, but I think you make the mistake of underselling the competition and overselling OLED.
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

So you are one of those who are queuing up to hook one of those $12K 55" OLEDs ? biggrin.gif

I'm going to guess that not many who couldn't find a few bucks to buy any flat panel in the past decade are lining up to blow 12 grand on an OLED. Maybe that's me pre-judging, but it's hard not to in this case.
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Samsung trying to dispel FUD about OLED Exceeding 300 Million OLED Panel Production Mark... from 2007 smile.gif

Apple put out a bunch of meaningless stats in their conference call yesterday as well. Something like 4.5 trillion notifications delivered!
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Originally Posted by scottylans View Post

I'm currently on an 80U, 2008 50" Panasonic (720p) I'm planning on moving it to craigslist in the next 6 months and getting in a 64 or 65" Plasma to last 4 years.
In that time, I'm hoping in 4 years, a 70" OLED will be under $3500
That's the plan at this point - one more plasma for me and then OLED hopefully.

I'm on the same plan, although I made the jump from a 2006 50" plasma to 2012 65" plasma and kept the old one in my living room in case I found some use for it. I imagine the Craigslist value is really quite low.
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As for OLEDs success, there's always the rich and the videophiles, people will NOT put up with the poor quality of LCD, furthermore - unlike plasma where people can try to argue, I think OLED is CLEARLY going to be visible in how it's superior, from low latencies, clearly better blacks, thinner and lighter cabinets and theoretically lower power, it's got ALL the bulletpoints needed to defeat LCD and appease the early adopters.

Yes, but there won't be an OLED business around those people. It doesn't work that way, as I explained above. If the market doesn't grow into the millions, it will shrink from the thousands back to zero.
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Further, I never said that the OLED tech was not excellent, it is. But here again, you missed my point. When black levels in the best of the current displays (plasma & LED/LCD) is already so good, it's tough to measure, how much of an improvement do you expect to see in this area? Improvements will be evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Very evolutionary. We're at the point where sequential contrast, in particular, exceeds useless levels on the "dimming" LCDs -- and I mean that in a good way. (It doesn't on plasmas because of peak-light limitations, but for movie watching it tends to also already "be there".) Intrascene contrast on both techs could use some more headroom and OLED will provide this. Similarly, absolute black levels will reach near perfection. But how much this matter and to how many people remains another matter. Most source material doesn't benefit from either. Yes, there are absolutely exceptions, but do you go out and spend premium dollars to replace your TV for exceptions? No. Now, of course, there is a replacement cycle and there are people who want "the best". People like Ken who spent >$6000 on a 70" Elite for example.

In my mind, however, the unbelievably tepid sales of the Elite speak about equally to price and to the relatively small improvement most people witness. OLED is going to face the same problem, even if somewhat more people see it as better. And without the pre-packaged demo materials of a trade show (i.e. showing the Best Buy loop), I think the number of those people is far smaller than OLED proponents do.
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If we already have displays that are very close to perfect in conforming to Rec709, how much of an improvement do you expect to see in this area? If the claim is that OLED color saturation is X% better than conventional displays and is capable of displaying Y% 'more hues' than other techs, I will contend this does nothing to improving color accuracy as far as our accepted standard is concerned. In fact it might look great, but it might be less accurate. Of course there's no reason to believe that an OLED can't be calibrated to be accurate and conforming to Rec709, but then it will probably look very much the same as another, accurately calibrated display tech.

'Eye popping' and accurate can be two very different things. We shall see.

Yep, I've beaten the hell out of that drum for a while now. There is some truth that LCD fails to keep delivering color at lower luminance. So, again, OLED will improve on that. In how much content does that matter? In how many sources have the cameras actually captured the color information for it to be even be reproduced?
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Well it's maybe useful to point out (as was pointed out to me earlier) that I'm not the minority in feeling that 70"+ is too big for nearly any room. I'm the minority only here in AV centric forums. So as far as size by itself, there are going to be large TV's that willl be passed on, not because of their cost, but because they're not wanted.

That said, if many here are right, it'll still likely be the case that a 55" UHD IGZO will be substantially cheaper than a 55" SD OLED for a while. But I keep seeing size (as such) thrown around as one of the qualifiers and I'm starting to wonder if maybe it matters
less than many think in terms of sales. Are we getting CES-myopic?

You're in the overwhelming majority vis a vis 70" TVs. I'm on record as to a believe that the size won't exceed 10% of the market for years and years. But 55" might be a problem in a world where 60" and 65" are increasingly common. Smaller is worse and OLED has already picked the wrong target based on an expectation it would be out already, not in a mode where it's effectively not out until next year. (Even if you believe Samsung is also shipping this year, total production globally is going to be really, really tiny in 2013.)

And, of course, there is cost. A premium 55" set streets for around $2500-3000 in the U.S. Within 2 years, that set is likely to be IGZO, even better, and similar money. If they OLED is $4000-5000, the market for OLED vs. the premium 55" TV is going to be roughly 1:20. That's really too small.
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Man, is this getting old. Some just love to live in the past. rolleyes.gif

You mean like Kuro owners? smile.gif I kid, I kid.
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^While I'm not the least bit interested in LCD (the price premium to get something on par with Plasma is not worth it to me), I think you are painting a tad broadly with your subjective brush. For the vast majority of panels, I couldn't agree more, however.

The interesting thing is that those premium LCDs do sell, but they do sell really poorly overall. And plasma sales are falling rapidly too.

Is there a videophile market left? It doesn't really seem like the answer is yes.
post #4988 of 9446
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Originally Posted by scottylans 

I need only open a few JPG files on my plasma in the lounge to see it blow away and LCD for colour, black levels. They simply don't compare.

actually color accuracy on the TH-XXPX85U is not really good and blacks aren't anyway near Pioneer top Plasma's. I wouldn't be blown away rolleyes.gif
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-viera-th-42px80u/4505-6482_7-32887130-2.html
post #4989 of 9446
Can someone be polite in their explanation as to why high video performance tech is never made available for entry level panels, and why everyone can't simply charge a premium for size only?
post #4990 of 9446
think of your choices when buying a new car as an analogy
post #4991 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottylans View Post

Not really, I've seen LCD with my own eyes, it's inferior rubbish, I can not stand it in the slightest.
I need only open a few JPG files on my plasma in the lounge to see it blow away and LCD for colour, black levels. They simply don't compare.

Interesting. I guess many of the professional reviewers that felt the Elite was the best display ever must have been smoking crack. I guess if they had known in advance that the tech was 'inferior rubbish', they might have written their reviews differently. rolleyes.gif
post #4992 of 9446
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Hope Artwood likes live theatre.

biggrin.gif
post #4993 of 9446
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Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

If the United States gave China Taiwan in exchange for producing cheap OLEDs would that stop the world wide LCD Army?

I'm for ANYTHING that stops LCD!

Well since manufacturers are only going to make what the buying public demands, I doubt the LCD Army will be going away anytime soon. But if you don't like LCD, simply don't buy it. It's just a personal preference. Outside of the VT-50 and the Kuro, I haven't seen a plasma I would take for free much less pay for one. For me, watching a plasma is like trying to view the world through a sheet of yellow cellophane. No thanks.

I was also very hopeful of OLED but I just don't see it anymore. Not after the massive amount of money that's already been sunk into R&D and they still have a 90% panel failure rate. 70" OLED's at $3500 (or even $6500) would take a radical new manufacturing process as of yet undiscovered. And that doesn't even address the blue OLED degradation rate problem. There's no indication any of the manufacturers have even come close to solving that part of it.

If I had to put money on it, I would say the next five years will see a flood of 4K sets with a large portion of those being cheap tv's coming from China. The higher end sets will be IGZO from the likes of Sony, samsung, etc. The few OLED panels to hit the market will go the way of the Pioneer Kuro in 5 years and will be more collector items. I hope I'm wrong, but I bet that's a lot closer to the truth than $3500 70" OLED panels biggrin.gif

EDIT: I'm probably wrong about there being a "flood" of 4K sets in 5 years. I read that market analysts estimate by 2017 4K sets will be 0.8% of the market. That would mean probably very little 4K content after a 4 year period.
Edited by kdog750 - 1/24/13 at 6:58pm
post #4994 of 9446
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Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

Well since manufacturers are only going to make what the buying public demands...

Problem in the display area is one has to make a plant worth billions in order to make panels. Otherwise it would be like in audio: apart of the mainstream there are lots of specialized companies operating to satisfy any perversive need for perverses willing to pay whatever price biggrin.gif. In the display area the general mass consumer dictates and already dictated that PQ is good enough, thus e.g. even locally dimmed LCD sets are dying. General consumer will accept OLED if its price is within the LCD range and that looks rahter unpromising: there were going to be $10K 55" OLED sets last year, they are now scheduled to appear for $12K. Delays and price increase are very bad omen for new tech.
post #4995 of 9446
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

You're in the overwhelming majority vis a vis 70" TVs. I'm on record as to a believe that the size won't exceed 10% of the market for years and years. But 55" might be a problem in a world where 60" and 65" are increasingly common. Smaller is worse and OLED has already picked the wrong target[...]

I definitely don't even like 65"ers and 60"ers haven't sold me yet either. What do the trends indicate: Is the expectation that we're close or closing in quickly to what people want for maximum TV size, or that we're going to CES ourselves right to 110" someday?
post #4996 of 9446
AVS member Don Landis made a short 4K Sony OLED film at CES2013. He complained about OLED blacks. In one AVS post he refers to it as one of the OLED problems ''Room reflections in blacks. There is non such thing on OLED as flat black, only glossy black''. In his video comment he says that ''the glare and reflections from the room in the blacks in the picture were a distraction. Every OLED screen i saw, wether from LG or Samsung or Toshiba had this black reflection problem i found annoying.''

4K Sony OLED cool.gif
post #4997 of 9446
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Now, of course, there is a replacement cycle and there are people who want "the best". People like Ken who spent >$6000 on a 70" Elite for example.

Actually I have the 60" Elite, Mark. I may decide to get the 70" Elite, but lots more thought will be necessary before I pull the trigger on anything.
post #4998 of 9446
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

AVS member Don Landis made a short 4K Sony OLED film at CES2013. He complained about OLED blacks. In one AVS post he refers to it as one of the OLED problems ''Room reflections in blacks. There is non such thing on OLED as flat black, only glossy black''. In his video comment he says that ''the glare and reflections from the room in the blacks in the picture were a distraction. Every OLED screen i saw, wether from LG or Samsung or Toshiba had this black reflection problem i found annoying.''
So the same problem that every other TV in existence also has? (though things like Motheye and Invisible glass are promising)
post #4999 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

AVS member Don Landis made a short 4K Sony OLED film at CES2013. He complained about OLED blacks. In one AVS post he refers to it as one of the OLED problems ''Room reflections in blacks. There is non such thing on OLED as flat black, only glossy black''. In his video comment he says that ''the glare and reflections from the room in the blacks in the picture were a distraction. Every OLED screen i saw, wether from LG or Samsung or Toshiba had this black reflection problem i found annoying.''

4K Sony OLED cool.gif

I probably am impressed with one aspect of the video that others are not. The overall color quality looks no different than that obtainable from virtually any other tech. Anyone wowed by that video from an OLED color standpoint, has already lost all objectivity. Of course this gets back to what I've said for years, you can't make assessments on PQ from videos like this. But hey, I can't tell you how many years I've seen people ready to write their checks for a given display based on one still pix or short video. Each to his own.

Yes, the reflections are patently obvious and very distracting, but even there I'm not sure I could come to the conclusion that OLED screen reflectivity is worse than others. But I'll take Don's word for it.

What I was impressed with was the 4K aspect of the display where Don zoomed in on the screen to highlight moving traffic below. The detail held up very nicely and mirrored what I saw in the 84" Sony 4K display that I saw.
post #5000 of 9446
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

AVS member Don Landis made a short 4K Sony OLED film at CES2013. He complained about OLED blacks. In one AVS post he refers to it as one of the OLED problems ''Room reflections in blacks. There is non such thing on OLED as flat black, only glossy black''. In his video comment he says that ''the glare and reflections from the room in the blacks in the picture were a distraction. Every OLED screen i saw, wether from LG or Samsung or Toshiba had this black reflection problem i found annoying.''

4K Sony OLED cool.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84uxdA9DHMA


So the same problem that every other TV in existence also has? (though things like Motheye and Invisible glass are promising)

Not exactly (if I understand this properly). An anti-reflective glass (or coating or whatever you want to call it) attempts to circumvent the specular reflectance by transmitting as much light as possible straight through the glass. This is how museum glass works as well, despite the company's absurd diagram.

Again, if I understand the problem----someone clarify for me, even the best anti reflection glass would still allow the light through to hit the "OLED black" and then bounce back as reflection. The only solution would be for a type of glass that takes light in, but throws it away parallel to the surface, or something else insane.

Do I have that right? And further, is this for real? Why is the OLED black a glossy surface anyway?
post #5001 of 9446
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Not exactly (if I understand this properly). An anti-reflective glass (or coating or whatever you want to call it) attempts to circumvent the specular reflectance by transmitting as much light as possible straight through the glass. This is how museum glass works as well, despite the company's absurd diagram.

Again, if I understand the problem----someone clarify for me, even the best anti reflection glass would still allow the light through to hit the "OLED black" and then bounce back as reflection. The only solution would be for a type of glass that takes light in, but throws it away parallel to the surface, or something else insane.

Do I have that right? And further, is this for real? Why is the OLED black a glossy surface anyway?

Throwing the light back at the panel is not ideal.
Clearly, we need glass that pass the maximum light through and then absorbs it on the way back and converts it into energy that is used to power the panel.

Duck soup.

- Rich
post #5002 of 9446
Or a colored e-ink tv.......lol......aye yi yi. How are the fabrication numbers for THAT I wonder....
post #5003 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Actually I have the 60" Elite, Mark. I may decide to get the 70" Elite, but lots more thought will be necessary before I pull the trigger on anything.

Oops, Sorry Ken! Your TV is too small for me. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Throwing the light back at the panel is not ideal.
Clearly, we need glass that pass the maximum light through and then absorbs it on the way back and converts it into energy that is used to power the panel.

It struck me that whatever the MothEye stuff does, it's a pretty big step forward. All the good TVs out are reflective as hell these days, even with very thin glass fronts.

I hope we get to the point where MothEye-type technologies become standards on high-end TV products. I doubt they will ever be standard on lower-end products.

I also wonder if true plastic-front TVs will become common at some point and whether they will be any good in this regard.
post #5004 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It struck me that whatever the MothEye stuff does, it's a pretty big step forward. All the good TVs out are reflective as hell these days, even with very thin glass fronts.

I hope we get to the point where MothEye-type technologies become standards on high-end TV products. I doubt they will ever be standard on lower-end products.

I also wonder if true plastic-front TVs will become common at some point and whether they will be any good in this regard.

Is there any film that can be applied on top of existing TV panel that can reduce reflections?
post #5005 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I also wonder if true plastic-front TVs will become common at some point and whether they will be any good in this regard.
Plastic is generally much worse optically than glass, and is easily damaged. I certainly hope that does not happen.

It doesn't help that plastic is around forever as it doesn't decompose, and is very difficult to properly recycle/re-use.


P.S. If you ever need ophthalmic lenses, be sure to get them in CR-39 rather than Polycarbonate or other high index options. Funny that the cheapest option is also the best quality. If only that was the case with anything else.
post #5006 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

actually color accuracy on the TH-XXPX85U is not really good and blacks aren't anyway near Pioneer top Plasma's. I wouldn't be blown away rolleyes.gif
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-viera-th-42px80u/4505-6482_7-32887130-2.html


Which further concretes just how good plasma is then, when my $1000 30" Dell monitor on my PC which is top end - is completely blown away for colours and black level by an apparently poor level plasma! The pictures simply have no comparison.
post #5007 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I probably am impressed with one aspect of the video that others are not. The overall color quality looks no different than that obtainable from virtually any other tech. Anyone wowed by that video from an OLED color standpoint, has already lost all objectivity. Of course this gets back to what I've said for years, you can't make assessments on PQ from videos like this. But hey, I can't tell you how many years I've seen people ready to write their checks for a given display based on one still pix or short video. Each to his own.

Yes, the reflections are patently obvious and very distracting, but even there I'm not sure I could come to the conclusion that OLED screen reflectivity is worse than others. But I'll take Don's word for it.

What I was impressed with was the 4K aspect of the display where Don zoomed in on the screen to highlight moving traffic below. The detail held up very nicely and mirrored what I saw in the 84" Sony 4K display that I saw.
Who cares about the colors? You didn't get from the video that black is beautiful?
post #5008 of 9446
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Originally Posted by mikek753 View Post

Is there any film that can be applied on top of existing TV panel that can reduce reflections?

Not as a practical matter no.
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Plastic is generally much worse optically than glass, and is easily damaged. I certainly hope that does not happen.

It doesn't help that plastic is around forever as it doesn't decompose, and is very difficult to properly recycle/re-use.


P.S. If you ever need ophthalmic lenses, be sure to get them in CR-39 rather than Polycarbonate or other high index options. Funny that the cheapest option is also the best quality. If only that was the case with anything else.

Yeah, you are correct Chron. I hope it doesn't happen either and given that decades have gone into trying to make great eyeglasses with only limited success, I doubt great front plastic for TVs will ever happen.
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Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

Who cares about the colors? You didn't get from the video that black is beautiful?

Who doesn't get that? smile.gifsmile.gif

post #5009 of 9446
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Oops, Sorry Ken! Your TV is too small for me. smile.gif

It's actually too small for me too at our new place, Mark. That's why it will become our bedroom TV. Perfect size there. wink.gif

I'm leaning toward 4K for my next set. I think I want to future proof my next display and I don't want to spend the money that would be necessary for the kind of 2K display that would make me happy.

At least that's my thinking as of today. smile.gif
post #5010 of 9446
Quote:
Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

Who cares about the colors? You didn't get from the video that black is beautiful?

Nope, I don't get that from that video. I've seen 100s of 'videos' from different displays, both plasma and LED/LCD, where blacks looked equally superb. You simply can't discern that from a video with a high degree of accuracy.

I know the blacks of OLED are terrific, I don't need a video shot with a cheap camera to 'prove' that to me. On the other hand I don't know if shadow detail is equally as good. but who cares about shadow detail, right? Who cares about color, right? As long as we achieve absolute black, all is well.

The blacks on my non-OLED Elite are superb and so is the shadow detail. It's not a quantum leap from the black levels of the best displays to the black levels of OLED. But I know some will never be convinced of that.
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