OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 172

And you'd be correct. I just figured Ken, then whatstreet, (and then I), were talking about the other industry term:
www.wikipedia.com/Motion_Disgustingness (don't click)

(chuckle)

Interpolative results on some plasmas are as smooth as silk.

Apologies to Ken and then whatstreet if that's not what they meant, and I'll let you go back to correcting them if so.

I agree with you guys 100%. There are many issues with content that have been blamed on displays over the years, and it still goes on. Most people don't have the luxury of having several different display techs to prove to themselves that what they're seeing isn't related to the display, but rather to issues with content. I don't think this will ever change. The knee-jerk reaction is to always blame the display.

@^Ken: 10/10 . Even more, instead of pushing 4K which will require 25 Mb/s with HEVC I would use this 25 Mb/s HEVC for 1080p/60 4:2:2. That would be honey for the eye beating Blu-ray and beating the 4K after upconversion.

4:2:0 4K gives you a 3840x2160 luma resolution, with 1920x1080 chroma.
4:2:2 1080p gives you a 1920x1080 luma resolution with 960x1080 chroma.

There is absolutely zero point in moving from 4:2:0 video encoding when you have the opportunity to increase resolution for the same cost. Why do I have to keep repeating myself?
We will not be moving to HEVC for 1080p content.

Gee I wish I understood that.

Basically he's saying you can't put 6 pounds of coffee in a 5 pound can, and you shouldn't try. Just get the 6 pound can, which is 4K, and I agree.
Edited by taichi4 - 2/1/13 at 12:02pm

Vacuum packing?

This is not entirely accurate, but imagine that the image you see on your display is made up of two images: a "detail" image (luma channel) layered over a "color" image (chroma channel)

If an image is 4:4:4 or RGB, it means that the "color" image is the same resolution as the "detail" image.
4:2:2 means that the color image is 1/2 the resolution of the detail image.
4:2:0 means that the color image is 1/4 the resolution of the detail image, and that is how all video is encoded today. (1920x1080 luma channel with a 960x540 chroma channel)

This is an effective way to save bandwidth because our eyes still see the "detail" image as being perfectly sharp, and layering that over a low resolution "color" image helps mask the fact that it is lower resolution.

If you have a 1080p 4:4:4 image, it is still only 1920x1080 for both the "detail" and "color" images.
If you have a 4K 4:2:0 image, it has a 3840x2160 "detail" image, and a 1920x1080 "color" image.


That's not to say there's no reason for RGB/4:4:4 content to exist - it does look better - but it's not an efficient use of available bandwidth.

dont worry. im sure 5 people will come along and completely dissect that post with comments on every sentence that was originally posted. then those response posts will get completely dissected by sentence in return. then while reading every posters left field thoughts on the subject matter that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread their posting in, you realize this thread was hijacked 20 pages ago.

in a nutshell, if you dont understand what im saying, stay on topic people. this thread is officially become a 4K thread until some other OLED news comes up and gets posted here only to eventually drift off into another 6 page lateral subject. this forum is unreadable 90% of the time because i cant ever read about topics that the title of thread indicates.

This thread should be no more than 3 pages if you count actual news. how many pages is it now? 172? thats a lot of senseless bs to wade through to get to the actual information. I'm sorry if i come out of nowhere with the complaints, but the reason above is the reason, and my lack of posts are a complete result of whats typed above also.

best regards, whitey.

Only if we're talking Cathode Tube...

What are you making such a phos phor?

Well since we're going off topic"......


GO NINERS!!!

??? This might be one of the worst predictions in the AVS . Broadcasters (satellite especially) will have strong incentive to move to HEVC since it allows to save bandwidth and money. In a similar way as they are moving out of MPEG-2 to H.264 they may start gradual transition to HEVC.

Is it a bad prediction?

You have to replace 100% of the equipment, including every single set top box to move to HEVC. I don't see anyone doing this for 1080p.

For 4K? Sure.

For 1080p? Why?

Agree totally. It makes no sense to do that for 1080P.

Thank you very, very much. I understood the explanation, and it was something I was completely unaware of. I have saved this explanation offline for future reference.

RGB forever? Come ze revolution, I'll fix it all!

You are wrong. Bandwidth is of primary concern to broadcasters and first truth their learn is customers select platform based on the number of "channels" no matter what garbage are many of them.. Since set top boxes are being replaced anyway there is no problem with adding new features. Broadcaster are now facing problem of transition to all channels HD and that require more bandwidth. They can easily calculate how much saving can come from packing more HD channels onto a single satellite transponder. The only point is that complete shift to new technology is gradual and takes time. BTW, HEVC will be available in 4K boxes and broadcasters will have to push them to consumers to give 4K real start.

PANASONIC TO LAUNCH FIRST OLED TV IN 2015 - RUMOR

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1359964233

"Panasonic showcased its first OLED-TV prototype at CES 2013. Sources from Japan now claim to know that Panasonic will launch its first OLED-TV in 2015 when the inkjet printing production method is ready for mass production.

PANASONIC OLED TV IN 2015

Panasonic and Sony both unveiled a 56-inch OLED-TV prototypes with 4K resolution at CES. The two makers are collaborating on OLED technology and are also co-developing the so-called inkjet printing production method where OLED pixels are “printed” into substrates."

.......................................................................................................................................................

Since they are just projecting when they will have succeeded in the development of the inkjet printing production method, the 2015 launch date seems like a best case scenario; and I would not be too surprised if they end up running into technical problems that will require them to delay production beyond the 2015 time target.

Samsung and LG decide to settle OLED patent dispute behind closed doors

http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/04/samsung-lg-oled-peace/


"It looks as if Samsung and LG have both taken their fingers away from the red button marked MORE LITIGATION. It's being reported that the pair have come to an agreement to work out their OLED patent issues away from the harsh light of the courtroom. Korea's Yonhap News is claiming that a peace summit was held at a Seoul hotel, with Samsung's Kim Ki-nam saying that the pair will resolve the issues "one by one." Give peace a chance, folks."

^Maybe they are coming to the realization about the rocky state of OLED's future and finally deciding to cooperate on some level.

That might be reverse logic. If OLED were truly rocky, it would cease being quite as relevent. It's because it's definitely the way forward that they want to put down the patent daggers ASAP. Given the stupid state of patents these days, most of their energy is spent on trading threats.

I saw a report recently which stated that the Korean Government was pushing the two companies to stop waging war on each other, because they feared that they were going to end up losing out on OLED to foreign competitors. I suspect that might be what brought about their new agreement to settle things in private.

That's logical. The everpresent delays just give the appearance of rocky on the technical front in any case (and these hurdles would indeed be better served if the money they were funneling into legalities could get re-apportioned to the R&D fund). Oh well, it's about time for LG to put up or shut up and deliver it's 100,000 or so units this year.

Or perhaps both could bring (better?) panels to market sooner, but not without infringing on the others patents, and this paves the way for both to get to market with something cheaper better sooner. Probably just wishful thinking.

Some of you guys are pretty quick to give up on oled. I know it seems to be taking a long time to get to the finish line. I for one expect longer blue oled life will get found, and that they will resolve the outstanding issues with inkjet printing of the panels. I expect solutions to both. I don't expect a sudden breakthrough on the blue oled thing, and I just don't know what the outstanding issues are with inkjet printing. Maybe it's much further from a commercially viable process than I think.

Well, LG already has an interim solution to that blue OLED problem. I consider the printing method but a pipedream at this point (prototypes be damned), especially after the tepidness of the latest report.

Just an amusing musing

Couldn't they just stack multiple blue's and wear-balance them over time?

Inkjet OLED printing has been "just around the corner" since 2001. That's just reality.

As for blues, I don't really know how severe the problem is for Samsung, but (a) I don't think it's a problem for LG's RGBW displays (b) no, you can't stack multiple blues and balance them, it's unrealistically complex and expensive (c) obviously, a straight up breakthrough in blue OLED life is not at all easy, since, that too, has been a problem getting attention for more than a decade (d) don't you wonder if in this patent deal, LG isn't going to get $1 billion or so from Samsung for the RGBW tech? I sure do.

If OLED becomes a reality it will be because of my efforts here at telling the whole world how much LCD sucks!

The Koreans and the Japanese hate the Chinese and KNOW that they better come out with OLED fast because CHEAP crummy looking 4K LCD is coming fast and the American buying public has been propogandized into loving crappy LCD for so long that unless OLED is beyond fantastic--

The brainwashing can't be broken!

Pray that a combination Japanese-Korean Army can drop the atom bomb of OLED to stop the 4K LCD Chinese Army of suckism!

The Chinese have infiltrated America with Wal-mart--if Wal-mart goes for 4K Chinese LCD then the suckiests/crappiests will rule the world!

Who can take it?!

They'll pay off the grand master posters here and we'll be "EDUCATED" into why 4K LCD is great!

Better go ahead and buy that ZT-60--Panasonic will have to kill it off from the 2014 line to build demand for 2015 OLED.

Get ready to pay out the wazoo!

Off your meds?

Come now, it's not all that dramatic, is it?

I'm pretty sure nobody with any kind of influence on the future of TV industry reads AVS forums. Even if every AVS member started aggressively demanding OLED in every post, it would not make iota of difference to manufacturers' OLED plans.

hmmm

I doubt any AVS members got paid off for anything

and we do note your dislike of LCD