OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 178

Could the force of Korean nuclear weapons, OLED, and Wal-mart be able to stop Chinese 4K LCD or is Chinese 4K LCD in the long run just plain old unstoppable?

Chinese 4K LCD is, of course, unstoppable. But that doesn't necessarily mean its market domination is entirely inevitable.

"OLED TV Begins to Show Some Signs of Life" According to HDGuru


http://hdguru.com/oled-tv-begins-to-shows-some-signs-of-life/10004/#more-10004

It is a long summation of where he feels things now stand; but the following part of it jumped out at me. It is an astonishing projection by a senior manager at Panasonic U.K..


"Panasonic

Industry trade publication Consumer Electronics Daily reported last week that Panasonic will go straight to 4K (UHD) OLED TV, skipping 2K OLED and 4K resolution LCD TVs. Fabrice Estornel, senior manager of the TV Group at Panasonic U.K. claimed he was confident production of its printed OLED panel would begin around the middle of this year."

That is cool. I think Panasonic scores a bit higher on the veracity meter than some other manufactures.
However, it’s Fabrice…

I am sure Rogo will arrive to explain how this is mostly fantasy

- Rich

I read that on HD Guru as well. I continue to be optimistic about OLEDs and the printing method of production.

Is Panasonic being foolish or incredibly intelligent by skipping 2K OLED?
Ultimately I think the decision buys them time to, along with their R&D partners, attempt and alleviate some of the yield issues and try to enter the market in full force, eventually.

I think they're right - what's the point in buying 2K OLED?

I think Panasonic is being very smart. Since the cost of OLED will be high anyway why not just incorporate the added cost of 4K into the display from the start? If everybody else is going to be big bucks out of the gate, Panasonic may as well be recognized as the best PQ of the big buck display providers. Having the best PQ is a hat that can be worn for a long time, even after the competition has caught up. Being at the top of the PQ ladder may make you big fat target but when everybody aims at you that big fat target will always your name on it. Publicity is a good thing.

I agree, obviously the inevitability of 4K is prominent and I believe the inevitability of 4K OLED is even more so. The decision to skip out on 2K isn't a surprise given that Panasonic has shown no ability, or inclination to dive into OLED yet.

I understand the importance of things being 4K or bust in the minds of the public afraid of spending money on outdated equipment, and I'm one of them, but this particular reason is not valid IMO. Panasonic is indeed being very intelligent in not battling in the "me first" octagon that no one really wins at, but not for that reason.

You can't say off-hand "why not just incorporate the added cost of 4K", as if that's some off-the-cuff ignorable nut to crack. Look at what just "incorporating the added cost of 4K" does to the price-tag of a technology we already DO understand.

There are differing degrees of the metric "Expensive"....all things expensive are not equally so.
Edited by tgm1024 - 2/20/13 at 9:14am

If Panasonic can obtain a higher yield from their 4K OLED sheets than LG and Samsung appear to be able to from their 1080P sheets, (and they have claimed that they can), then that will put them in strong competitive pricing position against those two companies.

Did they clarify as to what that higher yield means? Is it higher yield in some experimental in-lab fabrication line, or IRL?

This is what they said. Keep in mind that they already demonstrated a 4K panel at CES which wowed those who viewed it, so they must have some idea about what the production costs will be.


""Panasonic says that what makes its OLED panel better than any others is the printing technology used to make the display. This method is said to dramatically reduce costs of production, increase yield rates and make the displays more reliable."

Historically, Panasonic has been a company that does not tend to overpromise, unlike LG and Samsung have often done.

Of the people who are willing to drop 10k on a new <60" panel, which do you think sounds more appealing to them, 4k or OLED? Many here may appreciate the potential improvements OLED brings to the table, but I expect the majority of consumers don't. Factor in unknowns like susceptibility to burn in, lifespan, color drift with time, and a 4k panel may seem like a much safer investment. Then again factor in that Panasonic likely won't have anything to sell until the end of the year, then only in small quantities, if at all, and ask what the landscape will look like for 4k at that time. There will be more 4k available, and 1080p starts to look too "yesterday" for a large investment. I think the window is too small, will be filled by LG, and the cost is too high. I think skipping 1080p OLED is probably the right choice.

You can't equate the price tag with the cost of production. If a 4k panel costs double to produce compared to the cost of equivalent quality 2k panel, in the early stages it could still sell for 4x the price.

Not fantasy, but "corporate project" doesn't sound like it's going to be ready right away.

http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/panasonic-anticipates-4k-oled-tv-launch-next-year.aspx

Speculating about a possible timetable for its introduction at the brand's recent pan-European convention, Panasonic UK Senior Manager for the Visual Marketing Group Fabrice Estornel exclusively told Inside CI that he was "hopeful for a launch sometime in 2014." He explained that OLED was currently a "Corporate project" but once turned over to Panasonic's TV division, a more definitive timetable would be announced.

A Panasonic UK senior manager stated that ' OLED is currently a ''corporate project'' ', - dream on folks

It may indeed be a "corporate project" but if they, and by they I mean any company planning of making a major profit in the TV industry, the development of a new technology to replace LCD and plasma is the only answer. If it isn't OLED then something else better come along. 4K on it's own won't be the answer because it will be viewed as juiced up LCD. 4K along with OLED is a viable solution if if if it can be brought to market in a reliable and inexpensive package. My point is that if they can't make OLED work they had better come up with something that will work. And soon. At least as far as the US market is concerned.

To me that's the only sensible place for OLED to go. I just can't see 2K OLED...a waste IMO. Also, by that time we'll have HDMI 2.0 and the display will be more or less future proof and capable of displaying 4K @60p, something current 4K displays can't do.

If IR/BI is "handled" (to whatever extent such that people relax over it), then don't forget to factor in that customers are going to be wow'ed by the thinness of the thing. Never under-estimate the bragging rights of the populace. TV's of some sort end up in peoples homes either way, and esthetics are paramount to a great many. I'm guessing that the majority of the folks that spend $3,000 for a coffee table will want to spend 4x that for big chunk of electronics on the wall if it gets to be the top of the top in looks, even if it remains unplugged. So long as it doesn't throw someone's wife into a hissy fit over how it "ruins" the looks of the room. LOL.

.....and you guys that have those wives know who you are.....
Edited by tgm1024 - 2/20/13 at 2:09pm

This year? Is they a [ /loudrollickingguffaw] tag?

Let's just say it makes Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones seem like reality TV. Well, more realistic than reality TV.

I think 2K OLED is pointless and have said so several times. So kudos to Panasonic.

None.

Hopeful and sometime in 2014 sound a lot more believable than this year. They still sound unlikely and the 2015 timetable we've talked of before sounds more believable. But if somehow something trickled out late in 2014 at some high price, I wouldn't be completely shocked. I'd be surprised -- pleasantly -- but at least that's still 18 months away. Sooner than that would be shocking. Something like 24-30 months would be that much more believable.

I think 4K OLED will come out in time for black Friday November 2014 just in time for Christmas and the new 4 team play-off in college football.

Roll Tide!

Does anyone know if OLED is good at producing the color Crimson?

I don't think they would have to try to hard to beat the single digit yields, requiring no repair, that LG is currently experiencing with their 2K OLED line. The could incorporate every new technology like 4K, IGZO backplane and Motheye and still come out with similar low yields.

Keep in mind that by most accounts, LG's dismal yields are attributable mostly to the jump to IGZO, which is bleeding edge stuff, especially at 55 inches.

Everyone in the industry believes IGZO is inevitable. And inevitable in this case means "headed for 95+% yields" in relatively short order. But what kind of timeframe that is, I can't say with any authority.

Well, OLED has certainly produced a lot of red ink so far....

Yes, and 56" 4K OLED is pointless. But with 2K OLED yields reported in single digit, the jump to 4K big displays is improbable. Unless there are asteroid-explosion breakthroughs in manufacturing.

The limitations of 1080p are visible at sizes far smaller than 56″.

If you sit close enough, it's not pointless.

People that have seen Panasonic's 20 inch 4K tablet came away impressed, not just with static computer images, but with video. Of course, such a tablet is viewed close up.

How close would that be?

Yeah, I think you got it.