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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 209

post #6241 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

interesting comments from Charles Hansen, President of Ayre Acoustics: he keeps a new spare Kuro in a box:

"Actually we were ahead of the time. We knew that 3D would flop as there were so many problems with it. In my meeting with one of the top Japanese manufacturers of A/V equipment they said that 3D had failed miserably.

 

There's a logic disconnect here that I'm really not comfortable with.

 

I followed your link and that post seems (to me anyway) as if he had an initial point of view in the beginning and searched to support it.

 

3D "failing miserably" ?  People say stuff like this and I STILL don't know what that's supposed to mean.  WHAT precisely did 3D "fail miserably" at?  You either think it's worth having or you don't.  But:

 

  1. Does a 3D TV cost a lot more than it's non-3D counterpart?  No.  (Seriously, I think the model sony I had introduced at almost exactly $100 less for non-3D, down from $1750.)
  2. Does a 3D TV produce fun and wonderful results for many?  Yes.
  3. Does the 3D part of TV in any way hurt its 2D PQ?  No.
  4. Are there 3D releases out there that people absolutely rave about that would love to see at home?  Yes.  Even if the count is One:  Avatar, it's worth it to me.  Will there be others?  Absolutely.
  5. Do I love watching my kids and their friends learn about the solar system in 3D?  Yes.
  6. Am I hearing from some gamers how 3D "changes everything".  Yes.

 

And most importantly: To say that 3D "failed miserably" and that he has high hopes for 4K makes no fundamental sense, because the two technologies are disparate notions and do not mutually exclude each other.  Was 3D supposed to revive the TV industry or something?  Is 4K now poised to hopefully revive the TV industry?

 

There are arguments being made here with initial premises I just don't follow.


Edited by tgm1024 - 7/13/13 at 9:44am
post #6242 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris5028 View Post

I feel badly for the videophiles in my income bracket... I may not be able to afford a new Plasma on Panasonic's last year... Let alone 3 or 4 so I have quality TVs for the duration...
Get one of those 3-year warranties from SquareTrade or the like.
post #6243 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

interesting comments from Charles Hansen, President of Ayre Acoustics: he keeps a new spare Kuro in a box:


"Actually we were ahead of the time. We knew that 3D would flop as there were so many problems with it. In my meeting with one of the top Japanese manufacturers of A/V equipment they said that 3D had failed miserably.

There's a logic disconnect here that I'm really not comfortable with.

I followed your link and that post seems (to me anyway) as if he had an initial point of view in the beginning and searched to support it.

3D "failing miserably" ?  People say stuff like this and I STILL don't know what that's supposed to mean.  You either think it's worth having or you don't.  But:
  1. Does a 3D TV cost a lot more than it's non-3D counterpart?  No.  (Seriously, I think the model sony I had introduced at almost exactly $100 less for non-3D, down from $1750.)
  2. Does a 3D TV produce fun and wonderful results for many?  Yes.
  3. Does the 3D part of TV in any way hurt its 2D PQ?  No.
  4. Are there 3D releases out there that people absolutely rave about that would love to see at home?  Yes.  Even if the count is One:  Avatar, it's worth it to me.  Will there be others?  Absolutely.
  5. Do I love watching my kids and their friends learn about the solar system in 3D?  Yes.
  6. Am I hearing from some gamers how 3D "changes everything".  Yes.

And most importantly: To say that 3D "failed miserably" and that he has high hopes for 4K makes no fundamental sense, because the two technologies are disparate notions and do not mutually exclude each other.  Was 3D supposed to revive the TV industry or something?  Is 4K now poised to hopefully revive the TV industry?

There are arguments being made here with initial premises I just don't follow.

I was commenting on his keeping a Kuro in a box: did not intend to start a discussion on 3D smile.gif
post #6244 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

There are arguments being made here with initial premises I just don't follow.

I was commenting on his keeping a Kuro in a box: did not intend to start a discussion on 3D smile.gif

 

LOL....ok, fair enough.  :)

post #6245 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris5028 View Post

I may not be able to afford a new Plasma on Panasonic's last year.
Last year of R&D, not last year of production.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

However, they had high hopes for 4K. They said that the images were so bright and detailed that they actually looked more dimensional than "3D".
People have been saying this about flat panels since they were introduced. There's nothing "3D" about them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

the average person has such a poor display that even Blu-ray looks terrible.
Blu-ray looks great on just about anything as long as you set up the picture controls correctly. You have to be trying to make Blu-ray look bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I still have a final generation 50" Kuro monitor in a sealed box waiting for the right time to open it up and enjoy it. I don't know if that picture quality will ever be surpassed.
You know, good on Pioneer for managing to achieve this mythical status with the Kuros, because while they may have been good at the time (and I would argue against that, having owned all "2.5" generations) there is nothing about the picture quality that's never going to be surpassed. In many areas they actually aren't that good at all, and were surpassed by other displays a long time ago. Black level is the only area where Kuros were on top until the local dimming LED sets came along. From all accounts the new Panasonics even better the Kuros.
post #6246 of 9473
^You know, if they weren't "that good" in "many areas" "at all," there wouldn't be so many who hold them up as a reference even to this day (we're talking calibrators as well, not just laypersons). They had the #1 motion resolution at the time, not to mention the deepest black levels. The local dimming LED sets of which you speak (Sharp? Sony?) are no longer being manufactured, are they? They also introduce their own artifacts (blooming). Finally, the Kuro is beat in a few areas by the new Panasonics but not all and some would say not overall (before anyone interjects, I'm of the belief they're close enough).
post #6247 of 9473
I don't think we will see 4K OLED sold until 2015:(
post #6248 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I don't think we will see 4K OLED sold until 2015:(

I'll just be happy to see OLED for sale in North America. biggrin.gif 4K would just be sweet.
post #6249 of 9473
The ignoramuses that keep a spare 50" Kuro in a box because they "don't know if that picture quality will ever be surpassed" need (a) to get a life and (b) to just be ignored at this point.

It's been annoying for most of the past 5 years to listen to that kind of nonsense. But in the last couple of years, it's just become laughable.
post #6250 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The ignoramuses that keep a spare 50" Kuro in a box because they "don't know if that picture quality will ever be surpassed" need (a) to get a life and (b) to just be ignored at this point.

It's been annoying for most of the past 5 years to listen to that kind of nonsense. But in the last couple of years, it's just become laughable.

Maybe that person just bought a Kuro box and put some bricks in;
Much cheaper and the same bragging rights. smile.gif

- Rich
post #6251 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The ignoramuses that keep a spare 50" Kuro in a box because they "don't know if that picture quality will ever be surpassed" need (a) to get a life and (b) to just be ignored at this point.

It's been annoying for most of the past 5 years to listen to that kind of nonsense. But in the last couple of years, it's just become laughable.

Thank you. Electronics do deteriorate when unused for long periods of time, that thing may just emit a small puff of smoke and die if it ever gets unpacked. All the one-upmanship "mine's better than yours" stuff around here is laughable enough but the Kuro-worship is about the worst example.

Reminds me of the folks who'll buy and meticulously restore a classic sports or muscle car and turn it into a "trailer queen" instead of getting out and driving it.
post #6252 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Electronics do deteriorate when unused for long periods of time

 

Huh?  How?

post #6253 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post


Reminds me of the folks who'll buy and meticulously restore a classic sports or muscle car and turn it into a "trailer queen" instead of getting out and driving it.

At least a classic 'Vette or old Ford hot rod will still look beautiful just sitting there. A fat, small Kuro in (or out) of its cardboard box 10 years from now will be worth maybe $100-200 and be just pathetic.
post #6254 of 9473
Fat? Not really a concern unless you choose aesthetics over PQ. It still holds its own against modern panels remarkably well, which is no easy feat, IMO. In 10 years, it should have been well and truly buried, one would hope. wink.gif I can't imagine calling its PQ "pathetic" no matter what year we're talking, however.
post #6255 of 9473
I'm not saying the picture quality will be pathetic... Preening over it? That already is.
post #6256 of 9473
Maybe he's just waiting for it to be discovered by American Pickers searching for that rusty gold.
post #6257 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Fat? Not really a concern unless you choose aesthetics over PQ.

 

I believe aesthetics matter a whole lot more than videophiles are willing to admit.  The thing goes in your living room.  It'll soon be "too retro" for most.

post #6258 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I believe aesthetics matter a whole lot more than videophiles are willing to admit.  The thing goes in your living room.  It'll soon be "too retro" for most.
If you're wall mounting, thickness leaves a very obvious impression if the television is in a place where you may see it from the side.
And I have always hated the recessed panel that most older HDTVs had - I love the flush glass bezel that my HX900 and more modern panels have. The Pioneer bezel is thick, gathers dust, and is prone to scratching.
post #6259 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

If you're wall mounting, thickness leaves a very obvious impression if the television is in a place where you may see it from the side.
And I have always hated the recessed panel that most older HDTVs had - I love the flush glass bezel that my HX900 and more modern panels have. The Pioneer bezel is thick, gathers dust, and is prone to scratching.



well since we have no oleds to kick around, let's rip something else.

i like most of your posts but plasmas really aren't as bad as your portray them

yeah my edge lit sony is much thinner than my kuro, but thinness has nothing to do with pq.
i will gladly accept a little more dust on my bezel for the other benefits kuros provide.

and yeah, i have 3 kuros still in their boxes along with my star war toys
post #6260 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

well since we have no oleds to kick around, let's rip something else.
i like most of your posts but plasmas really aren't as bad as your portray them
My HX900 is not particularly slim either. I went with the thinnest mount I could find (though it was actually too thin if I wanted access to the ports at the back) and it's still 3.5" off the wall. They shaped the bezel so that it only appears to be 0.5" thick until you get over to the side of it, but I wish it was really only 0.5" thick and was able to be hung on the wall like a picture frame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

yeah my edge lit sony is much thinner than my kuro, but thinness has nothing to do with pq.
i will gladly accept a little more dust on my bezel for the other benefits kuros provide.
I would never compromise on thickness if it impacted image quality. But thicker sets and raised bezels are certainly starting to make older models look dated compared to modern designs that are incredibly thin with extremely slim bezels and a flush front.
post #6261 of 9473
Just found this on another forum. Not sure if it's okay to post other forums so here's just the pdf link.

Looks like OLED is finally really coming to America and in just two weeks.
post #6262 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Check out this review of the Panasonic ST60:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-panasonic-tc-p60st60-3d-plasma-hdtv

This display is better than any Plasma last year including the VT50 and it is very reasonably priced.

- Rich

And here's another terrific review - this one from Home Theater Magazine:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/panasonic-viera-tc-p60st60-3d-plasma-hdtv
Looks like the sweet spot in Panasonic's line to me!

(And I don't think plasmas are going away, though they may become a more expensive 'niche' market...that's my story and I'm sticking to it!).
post #6263 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I believe aesthetics matter a whole lot more than videophiles are willing to admit.  The thing goes in your living room.  It'll soon be "too retro" for most.
Yes, I see your point, especially for a 60" set, but the 50-incher I had did not stick out in an aesthetically unpleasing way considering the furniture on which it was placed. wink.gif
post #6264 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by schnura View Post

Just found this on another forum. Not sure if it's okay to post other forums so here's just the pdf link.

Looks like OLED is finally really coming to America and in just two weeks.
eek.gif I don't take Robert (Value Electronics) as someone who cries wolf, especially when it comes to his livelihood.
post #6265 of 9473
All this talk about Kuros being too thick is making me want to bitch slap each of you in the face. You're the reason we have TVs that suck! (trademark: Artwood smile.gif)

I mean seriously... on a videophile forum? You remind me of the wives I see dragging their husbands around BB checking out TV's without even turning them on. Picture should be valued above all else - not what a TV looks like when turned off!

I still use a tube CRT HDTV and couldn't care less how thick the box is. It gives me the best blacks (until OLED ships), perfect motion, perfect viewing angles, zero input lag, etc. The 34" Sony XBR CRT was the true reference display - only replaced by Kuro because of screen size.

This obsession with thinness is ridiculous.
post #6266 of 9473
Rest assured that reason ("depth") was at the bottom of my list when making a determination as to sell mine. wink.gif
post #6267 of 9473
Re: pdf link for Samsung: allotment is spelled wrong. ( Per Merriam Webster home and office edition) Sorry, couldn't help it!
post #6268 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

All this talk about Kuros being too thick is making me want to bitch slap each of you in the face. You're the reason we have TVs that suck! (trademark: Artwood smile.gif)

I mean seriously... on a videophile forum?

 

Yes, on a videophile forum.  Even on the most OCD of videophile forums you can have discussions regarding style, and how silly things can look.  Especially when you're comparing current vs. prior styles, and what lands in your living room.

 

Besides, the initial point regarded leaving the Kuro in the box was how it would look to comparable TVs of any current era (whenever that TV comes out).  Some TVs have more or less caught up to and passed the Kuro in PQ.  And the Kuros look ridiculously old: their bezel's are horribly chunky looking.

post #6269 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

eek.gif I don't take Robert (Value Electronics) as someone who cries wolf, especially when it comes to his livelihood.

Nor do I, but by bringing over a curved one that is even more expensive, Samsung more or less ensures that they simply don't sell any, right?

I mean, I'll still believe it when someone shows photos of an unboxing and not until then, but given this is going to be like $13,000 and a bit weird, it's safe to assume that sales will be absolutely minimal. You can rule out anyone:

1) Who wants to wall mount
2) With the common sense not to buy a first-generation product
3) Unwilling to spend a 4-5x premium over plasma and LCD for what will be a very small bump in picture quality
4) Who doesn't want something weird
5) Who simply can't afford that kind of money

Something around 7 million TVs of 50 inches and up are sold in the U.S. each year, perhaps as many as 10 million. I would guess that if you think this through, the Samsung as is targets the 1% of the 1%, so many 1,000 units. There are some foolish rich people out there, but the $13,000 will buy you an upgraded battery on your Tesla. Somehow that seems like a clear choice.
post #6270 of 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Yes, on a videophile forum.  Even on the most OCD of videophile forums you can have discussions regarding style, and how silly things can look.

True. But you won't be taken seriously. Same if you start defending edge-lit LCD display technology.
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