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OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 237

post #7081 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

The bigger issue for me w/OLED is its off-axis viewing capabilities. I'm still not sure how that's going to pan out. Will off-axis with OLED be as crappy as with LCD/LED?, or will it be great as with plasma displays? Reports are that OLED shouldn't suffer from off-axis viewing problems like LCDs do, but its yet to be proven...

I saw the Samsung last week. The off-axis viewing was decent and nothing like what you'd see on most LCDs.

There's a lot of negativity in this thread but what I saw, albeit in less than ideal viewing conditions, was very encouraging.
post #7082 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

until this stuff is really mass produced, there is no guarantee it will be ever be mass produced.
I have no doubt OLEDs will be (mass)produced, but it may only take a portion of the market, never to remove LED from the scene. I think that is what AUO President tried to say? But it's strange he placed PDP among SED and FED.
post #7083 of 9447
The fact that he compared SED/FED with PDP doesn't quite make sense. I'm guessing AUO is having a tougher time getting OLED off the ground than LG or Samsung and they know that they can do LCD cheap and also better than anyone else (outside of ChiMei), at the moment.
post #7084 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix 
I have no doubt OLEDs will be (mass)produced, but it may only take a portion of the market, never to remove LED from the scene. I think that is what AUO President tried to say?
That is what he is saying.

I to believe that OLED will be marginal for several years and after that there will be many years in which OLED will only have a small portion of the market, kind a like Plasma currently. That isn't by definition a bad thing (as long as the price is OK it is a good thing for many of us smile.gif )
post #7085 of 9447
In this article it says:

" NPD calculates that the manufacturing cost for a 55” TV using TFT LCD TV is $426, while the cost for manufacturing the same size TV with RGB OLED is $7,300, and using WOLED is $3,600. The main reason for the cost discrepancies can be attributed to the current low yields for OLED display manufacturing, the need to invest in expensive manufacturing equipment, and the high cost of OLED materials."
post #7086 of 9447
We all would like perfect quality 70" OLED at affordable prices tomorrow but we should all remember how long it took large-screen plasma TV to reach their full potential at a reasonable price. Plus it was Pioneer and (I think) Mitsubishi (?) who were the leaders in early plasma development, while Panasonic came along later yet eventually became a leader of affordable plasma TV technology. So it doesn't bother me at all if Panasonic comes late to the OLED game because it will probably be at least 5 years anyway before we see affordable OLED - just about the time my already 7 year-old Panny plasma approaches half-brightness, LOL!
post #7087 of 9447

Perfect quality is still going to depend upon finally getting all the content suppliers (networks, TV filmers, movie makers, whatever else you can think of) to fully agree upon how saturated a look is too much.

 

Right now, going from channel to channel is a near disaster for skin tones.  And even from show to show within a channel.  That won't be fixed by any display.  And aren't movies slowly transitioning to every increasing color saturation as well?

post #7088 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Perfect quality is still going to depend upon finally getting all the content suppliers (networks, TV filmers, movie makers, whatever else you can think of) to fully agree upon how saturated a look is too much.
This is what BT.709 and BT.2020 standards are for.
post #7089 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Perfect quality is still going to depend upon finally getting all the content suppliers (networks, TV filmers, movie makers, whatever else you can think of) to fully agree upon how saturated a look is too much.

Right now, going from channel to channel is a near disaster for skin tones.  And even from show to show within a channel.  That won't be fixed by any display.  And aren't movies slowly transitioning to every increasing color saturation as well?


Tell it like it is brother. smile.gif

I just got a Tivo Roamio to replace my Tivo S3. Talk about difference in gamma. The S3 must have been having problems as the Roamio (S5) definitely looks better.
post #7090 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Perfect quality is still going to depend upon finally getting all the content suppliers (networks, TV filmers, movie makers, whatever else you can think of) to fully agree upon how saturated a look is too much.
This is what BT.709 and BT.2020 standards are for.

 

Neither of those color spaces has the ability to prevent a content provider from filming faces too red.  The filmers are playing games like crazy with how much saturation is too much saturation.  They're providing wrong coordinates within the color space.

post #7091 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Neither of those color spaces has the ability to prevent a content provider from filming faces too red.  The filmers are playing games like crazy with how much saturation is too much saturation.  They're providing wrong coordinates within the color space.
No-one said that films have to recreate reality 100%. It's an artistic medium.

As long as the content was mastered on a calibrated reference monitor (it will have been) then calibrating your display to the standards should reproduce it as intended.
post #7092 of 9447
This is clearly identified as a rumor. Looks like the information identified as a mistake earlier in this thread is getting picked up around the web now. http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1379576633&rss


"The OLED Association claims that Panasonic’s mass production efforts are progressing faster than planned. The goal was to launch OLED displays in 2015, but Panasonic now expects to release the first OLED TV in the fourth quarter of 2013."
post #7093 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Neither of those color spaces has the ability to prevent a content provider from filming faces too red.  The filmers are playing games like crazy with how much saturation is too much saturation.  They're providing wrong coordinates within the color space.
No-one said that films have to recreate reality 100%. It's an artistic medium.

As long as the content was mastered on a calibrated reference monitor (it will have been) then calibrating your display to the standards should reproduce it as intended.

 

Oh, I understand.  The problem is that that artistic license is driving me nuts.  Or perhaps it's just sheer laziness or crappy monitors in their studios.  Channel A thinks faces should look one way.  Channel B thinks it should look another.  I have to have different settings for each.  You don't see that issue on your Sony?

post #7094 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Oh, I understand.  The problem is that that artistic license is driving me nuts.  Or perhaps it's just sheer laziness or crappy monitors in their studios.  Channel A thinks faces should look one way.  Channel B thinks it should look another.  I have to have different settings for each.  You don't see that issue on your Sony?
I only watch Blu-ray. It sounds like the problem is broadcasters using poor quality sources, colorspace conversions happening in their playback chain that shouldn't be, or simply someone screwing something up. Broadcast has a tendency to crop the aspect ratio of films - who knows what else they're doing.

If they were doing their jobs correctly, it should just look like a highly compressed version of the Blu-ray with no other changes, assuming it comes from the same source. (1080i60 should deinterlace to 1080p24 with good playback hardware)
Often times, broadcast is sourced from lower quality masters that were originally created for the DVD release, rather than waiting for a new master though - that's why there are a number of films which are available on HD broadcast but not currently available on Blu-ray.
post #7095 of 9447
I know exactly what skin tones should be, and I'm available to any studio.
post #7096 of 9447
A summary report on OLED TVs shown at IFA 2013.

Points of most interest;
>

  • Samsung Electronics Company (SEC) uses its Small Mask Scanning (SMS) method and LTPS TFT backplane on TV application. Samsung had indicated that AP Systems, a Korean equipment maker, had developed Laser Induced Thermal Imaging (LITI) for TVs, but unfortunately, uneven pixel edge and interface thermal sensitivity issues between layers and the blue color hindered the use of the LITI process.

  • LG Display ramps up its M2 line in Q2’2014, the company can be ready to produce panels 77” in diagonal since M2 line is designed to produce panels from a whole substrate whereas M1 line is cut in a half in order to produce perform the OLED deposition. The M1 line is a Gen8 (2200 x 2500mm), which could produce six of 55” OLED TV panels. The M2 line capacity is 26K monthly.

  • Panasonic uses IJP and the RGB pixilation method.
    Panasonic said it is progressing fast enough to launch the 55” UHD OLED TV in Q4’2013.
    The company plans to volume produce the TV panels from its Himeji Pilot Gen5.5 line.

  • Haier, a Chinese CE giant, exhibited its first OLED TV set at the IFA 2013. The panel is most likely LGD made.
    The panel size is 55” no detail was revealed regarding to mass production.
    However, we anticipate that more Chinese CE brands are eager to put out OLED integrated products in CE market.

  • In terms of panel production, BOE, Guoxhian, Hehui, Jilan, Irico, Tianma, and Visionox have announced its involvement in OLED display production

  • BOE and Tianma have been voicing its activities in OLED display production. BOE put out the aggressive mass production plan in B6Ordos fab to start operation in Q214 whereas his domestic rival Tianma unveiled its 12.1” prototype OLED displays in 2011 at the SID.

DisplayMate compared the LG 55” OLED with commercial LCDs in their LG OLED TV Display Technology Shoot-Out and reported that LCDs are clearly number one is in Peak Brightness. The LG OLED TV has a Peak Brightness comparable to the brightest LCD TVs, but only for Average Picture Levels (APL) below 30%, which is typical for essentially all TV, movie and video content. Above 30% APL, which is common for web and computer content with white backgrounds, the OLED Brightness decreases but the LCD Brightness remains unchanged. Other than Peak Brightness at high APL the OLED TV significantly outperforms all LCDs in every other category including Black Levels, Contrast Ratio, Viewing Angles, and Response Time.

OLED TVs exhibited at the IFA 2013
post #7097 of 9447
^ Wow, great report, thank you!

Another report that Panasonic is really close to releasing their UHD OLED? Could that really be true?
post #7098 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

^ Wow, great report, thank you!

Another report that Panasonic is really close to releasing their UHD OLED? Could that really be true?

 

I'm dying to see what the scalability issues are for IJP.  And if it no longer needs as difficult to manufacture substrate.

 

If it turns out that printing a 110" TV is only linearly more expensive than printing a 55" TV, and printing a 55" TV becomes a piece of cake, then they could Really Be On To Something®.

post #7099 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan 

OLED TVs exhibited at the IFA 2013

Sony 4K OLED &


Seiki OLED at the IFA 2013 smile.gif
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 75
post #7100 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Sony 4K OLED &

 

Here.  It's fixed:  :)


Edited by tgm1024 - 9/20/13 at 9:36am
post #7101 of 9447
And its wonderfully flat. I like that. The way is should be. Now make them in a 70".
post #7102 of 9447
Quote:
Another report that Panasonic is really close to releasing their UHD OLED

Not another, all reports are coming from a single source, the OLED Association article.
I agree with rogo, as much as I would like this to be true, this doesn't seem very likely. CE companies tend to announce products well in advance. And Q4 2013 is in under 2 weeks.

Panasonic is releasing a 4K UHD TV in Q4 2013, the Panasonic Viera TC-L65WT600. It just isn't OLED, it is an LCD. I think that was the source of confusion.
post #7103 of 9447
Quote:
And Q4 2013 is in under 2 weeks.
I would expect the wording of their statement "in Q4 2013" to likely be closer to the end of that quarter (which also is timed well for Super Bowl marketing and advertising in Feb).
Edited by webgrandeur - 9/20/13 at 11:10am
post #7104 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by webgrandeur View Post
 
Quote:
And Q4 2013 is in under 2 weeks.
I would expect the wording of their statement "in Q4 2013" to likely be closer to the end of that quarter (which also is timed well for Super Bowl marketing and advertising in Feb).

 

Also keep in mind that press releases often are meant for stockholders and industry financial analysts as much as they are for potential consumers.  Q4 might not be calendar Q4.

post #7105 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

And its wonderfully flat. I like that. The way is should be. Now make them in a 70".

Not good enough. 100"...period.
post #7106 of 9447
Where's the Samsung S9C Series OLED TV Owners Thread? biggrin.gif Anyone think Samsung will reduce the input lag in game mode with a firmware update?

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/KN55S9CAFXZA
post #7107 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb32 View Post

Where's the Samsung S9C Series OLED TV Owners Thread? biggrin.gif Anyone think Samsung will reduce the input lag in game mode with a firmware update?

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/KN55S9CAFXZA

 

Create one if you like.

post #7108 of 9447
I am also waiting for someone to start a OLED owner thread. I wonder if we will see such a thread this year. Lets start a poll smile.gif
post #7109 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

I am also waiting for someone to start a OLED owner thread. I wonder if we will see such a thread this year. Lets start a poll smile.gif

Seeing as to how much Forum Members are Not in favour of 55" Curved Screens, you may be waiting awhile.
74" curved screen I can see, but I seriously doubt the Prototypes will be up for sale!
post #7110 of 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

I am also waiting for someone to start a OLED owner thread. I wonder if we will see such a thread this year. Lets start a poll smile.gif

Be4 the owner thread there should first be OLED Panel Displays forum to put it into. The forum should be on the same level as the other flat panel displays fora /but obviously without the flat designator in the title/. Earlier proposal for this has, however, been rejected flatly biggrin.gif. In the meantime OLED displays are in shops and some people bought them but they are stil orphans with no own avs place. This should not be surprising as established sites tend to emphasize tradition (CRTs excellently represented of course), leaving field flat for newcomers to dig-in tongue.gif.
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