Comcast TiVo DVR - Page 2

I have to admit, I am hoping Comcast is not making the decision alone. Or, if it is, I hope TiVo ends up having some strong input before Comcast makes the decision.

Since the files and the apps exist in the DirecTiVos (if you hack it, you will find it), I have to imagine that TiVo itself wants a solution that extends all of their service to all of their users. There were rumors that TiVo was willing to support DirecTV customers with HMO on their systems, but that DirecTV turned them down. I was, and still am, hoping that Comcast and TiVo reached an agreement for TiVo to take some sort of active role in user feedback and support.

So, yes, I do get concerned when I hear that the Comcast TiVo will basically just be slapped-on to replace I-Guide because I think that will do TiVo, Comcast, and their customers more harm than good. On the other hand, if Comcast and TiVo are actually working hand-in-hand to create a comprehensive TiVo service, then it's going to be a worthwhile venture for all of us.



I guess only time will tell, huh?

In the SF bay area? I've tried, twice, and been told no dice, I have to have a minimum of Digital Classic with Standard to get the DVR.

This device will be the first and only TiVo with Firewire.
And it will be required to work for recording.

I wonder if it will be smart enough to:

1. Playback encrypted or non-encrypted DVHS tapes.

2. Allow import of programs from DVHS tape.

3. Manage the export from disk to tape.


ST

I wouldn't expect the firewire to work as an input because the 6412 doesn't do that currently. However, I have successfully captured programs from the firewire port (to my Mac laptop) because the firewire does work as an output for whatever program is currently playing.

I wouldn't expect more than this myself. The 6412 w/TiVo will probably still use the firewire port as an output of the currently playing program only.

Isn't OTA superior because cable companies recompress the HD stream when they send it down their pipes? I'm pretty sure I can see a big image quality difference of OTA vs HD Cable.

Depends on the cable company. Comcast, in most all areas does not alter the quality of the signal they receive from the broadcaster. It is converted to QAM but theoretically that does not alter the quality. Some cable companies do compress and down-rez the signal, I think Charter is known for doing it.

It's going to depend on your cable company. I'm pretty sure that here in Denver, we ge the full bit-rate stream - same as OTA.

Of course, some of our locals are playing around with lame SD sub-channels that steal bits from the HD picture anyways, but that's another problem entirely.

I agree with Weldon, but will go even further and say I don't expect the shows to even broadcast correctly over FW once the TiVo upgrade comes along because TiVo files are encrypted (I'm not sure if broadcast TV shows are encrypted, though... I watch very little on broadcast channels), which means that the Moto TiVo will probably encrypt them, too. Even if you hack a regular TiVo box to reach the files, you still have to turn the encryption off (prior to the show being recorded) to actually make them usable elsewhere.

I'm not sure how "hackable" the 34xx/64xx might be. I have a suspicion that hacking one of those boxes might not be as easy(!) as hacking one of the regular TiVo boxes is.

Does anyone know how you get onto this Beta? Are there any sign-up forms etc.

I suspect, if it is to be a public beta, that http://labs.comcast.net/ would be the place they would put it. I don't think I've ever seen a call for beta testers elsewhere on their sites.

There was a thread on TiVoCommunity last October (http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/ti....php?p=3353246), but there is very little information there...

TiVo has a beta tester volunteer site (https://betaapp.tivo.com/tivo-beta/register/index.do), but I really doubt that's going to feed into any Comcast test (though I did sign up... you never know).

My guess is: There will not be a "public" beta. It'll go to Comcast employees and then be rolled out the the regular customer base.

I sent comcast an e-mail - let's see if they respond

Why did I even bother!!!!!!!

Here was my question:

Here is the reply

The reports I heard were old messages on the HDTV-in-SFbay Yahoo group shortly after the DVR became available. People were able to get the DVR with Broadcast Basic service, box rental, DVR fee, and taxes & fees only. No "Expanded Basic", no Digital Silver. That's how you get close to $30. I'm not saying it's still possible, but people have done it. People also used to get 6200's (no DVR, but HDTV locals) with that type of service too. Although these days, any HDTV with QAM can do the same. I would think they would be more willing to do this as they implement ADS with encryption. That way they don't have to come and put a filter on your house to keep you from getting the analog channels like MTV and ESPN that are in the "Expanded Basic" service.

If you're unable to get the DVR without Digital Silver, I would go ahead and get it on a promotion and then cancel the Digital Silver after the promotion runs out and see if they try to take away the DVR. I would guess that they won't.

- Mike

Well, even with the stock response, it at least was a friendly stock response.

Maybe I'll try, too (after I get an On Demand issue worked out), and see if I get the same response.

I don't want to take the thread too far of track, but it was months ago when I tried. I'm going to try again here in about a week and see what happens.

From the 11-05 TiVo conference call:

"Q - Tony Wibel
I have a couple of questions. One you indicated I guess there s not a new hardware platform fort the Comcast box. So how will that box be supporting mobility?
A - Tom Rogers
Well, we haven t talked specifically about features in the Comcast offering. And at this point I don t have any particular comment on that other than to say that it s possible to support mobility because with TiVo connecting through the PC to accomplish TiVoToGo, to the extent Comcast elects features like that, we ll be in a position to support them through our software."

From the 5-06 TiVo conference call:

"Tom Rogers
Ill take the second question and hand the first one on financing back over to Stuart. We are making available in our feature set, if MSOs should want it, features that will allow for a DVR to accept and display broadband delivered programming.
For the time being, I think it would be unlikely that MSOs will want to see their DVRs serve that kind of function, although that may change over time. There are other elements of the standalone TiVo that provide a richer feature set, with broadband connectivity that dont have to do with the display of broadband video, that we think, very much, will be a part of the MSO TiVo offering.\\0"

Arrrrgggghh.

Well, I guess the software will be there, it just may be inactive if Comcast chooses (like the DirecTiVos are). Hopefully between Moto, Comcast, and TiVo, it won't be too difficult to make modifications if we don't get everything.

I do like the fact that he is referring to multiple providers, not just Comcast.

I don't like the fact that Comcast is the only game in town for me (other than satellite).

Time will tell...

I'm looking forward to this development. I'm moving from one apartment to another and leaving DirecTV behind in the process. Comcast is also the only game in town at the moment, IMHO the current Comcast DVR doesn't hold a candle to the TiVo, in any sort of full or watered-down format (my girlfriend, a current Comcast customer, will attest to that). I'd gladly pay extra for even the Comcast equivalent of the DirecTV TiVo (but will gladly take the additonal features).

It's a tough call: Pay a little more for the Comcast version, which will run on the moto HW (do we get a new remote, at least?), that *might* be stripped down, or potentially pay a lot more per month for an actual Series3, 1-2 cablecards, and the TiVo fee (which might be as much as the Comcast version *not* counting cablecard fees if you can't get a multistream), to get MRV, online scheduling, storage expansion options). No On-Demand for the Series3 either.

I think it'll all boil down to the Initial Price/ monthly fees once the Series 3 and the Comcast versions are released.

Comcast: Monthly DVR fee + Comcast monthly Tivo Premium Fee = ~$18/ mo?

Tivo: Comcast Cablecard fee(s) (if applicable - first might be free, second most likely isn't - additional outlet fee there) + Tivo service monthly fee + Tivo HW fee if taking an extended agreement plan. = Seems like the potential for at least $18/ mo if not more, not to mention any up front payments for the HW in the first place.

Didn't you post your local pamphlet a while ago?
IIRC, it showed Digital Classic itemized with no pre-requisite, therefore it is available a la carte (in addtion to Basic). IIRC, it also showed it in package, but that is just an option. Don't go by the website, it only shows tiered services here, like it does here.

If I am correct, then Digital Classic and Basic should be enough to get a DVR. This is listed on my pamphlet, and this requirement, whatever it is, should be on yours. You may get an ignorant CSR, but if a supervisor still rules it out, take the pamphlet to the office, but I doubt it would be necessary.

Some areas do indeed print that Digital Clasic can only be obtained with Standard, and therefore the DVR, by extension, requires both.

Other areas require just Standard, but then you don't get all of the 'cable network' HD, so it is no better than the scenario above.

I wouldn't bother trying to get cancel down to Basic with a DVR, not only is against there requirements, but I heard of someone who had to return the DVR.

Check your local pamphlet, I bet you will be happy with the req. for DVR and in turn, Digital Classic. Let us know.

Yes, I'm going to try again. Notice at the bottom of the list the double asterisk which indicates Limited Basic is required for Digital Classic. I'm going to take the list with me when I go. If I can get the DVR with Limited Basic and just Digital Classic I'll be happy. I would prefer not to even have Digital Classic but I doubt that's going to happen.

Yes, as I mentioned, (Ltd.) Basic is required, this is always the case. Of course, you want HD Locals anyway. And no area, AFAIK, has a policy of allowing DVR with Ltd. Basic, only through error is this allowed, sometimes they even correct the error.

I looked up your city, and entered the first zip code I could find, and it takes me to Comcast of North Bay. Now, if you click on Products, Digital Cable, DVR, and scroll to the bottom, the first sentence says:
'DVR requires subscription to Comcast Digital Cable.'
You should print out this page. So, Digital Classic qualifies, and since that in turn only requires Ltd. Basic, those are all you need for a DVR.

If the Phone or Chat reps. don't relent, go to the office, and show the 'DVR' page (noting your city on the top), and point out that for a DVR, Digital Classic is sufficient. Then show your city's 'Prices/Services' pamphlet, and point out that Digital Classic's only req. is Ltd. Basic. Simple enough to understand...even for them.

Even if it takes a supervisor, you should be able to drop Expd. The FCC mandates these reqs. to be in writing, so they can't play games, yet, they still try. Next recourse would be to complain to the LFA, but I doubt you would need to do so.

As an aside, I live in PA., and our DVR page is exactly the same as your CA DVR page, so they might have standardized the DVR service req. The only thing is, last I heard, some areas only allow Digital Classic with Basic and Expd. (Standard), thus making those areas different. Of course, areas that require just Std. might still exist.

That is the story I got the first couple of times I tried(truth be told, I didn't press the issue that hard at the time), that both Basic and Expanded(STD) was required to get Classic. But that price list seems to say otherwise, so off to the cable office I go...

They can say all they want, what is in writing is all the counts, and it is clear to me.

I cancelled Expd. a while ago, but added something else, probably making it easier; so I have more cable services than you would have, but it isn't necessary, of course.

I was told the same thing about the policy by the phone CSR, but he talked to the supervisor, and they allowed it to 'keep the customer happy'. Nice of them to follow their own requirements to make me happy, isn't it?

They obviously checked the written reqs., and saw they were mistaken, but wouldn't say so. Trust me, they aren't going to make any exceptions.

Their strategy seems to be to really push the 'tiered' approach to services, and this exemplified by their online product ordering page, and the CSRs are apparently trained to push services this way, as well.

On a related note, while some areas can and do require Std. for Digital, all of them are must offer Basic and Premiums a la carte.

Let us know how it turns out.

I seriously doubt the box will have Firewire input of any kind.

What would be nice is if they had wider formatted guides for HD displays.

Adding to the mix is that Comcast also is promising a Panasonic cable box as an alternative to the Motorola box: Panasonic & Comcast agreement

I wonder if the TIVO option will be packaged with this seemingly more-capable box.

...and a few select others.

This approach has worked for others.

Don't bet on it.

No go, went today and was told I have to have Standard to get the DVR although she could show me no documentation to that effect, supervisor is supposed to call me Monday.

Of course not... that's why I wrote "Hopefully."

I'm kind of hoping that the software entails some sort of install over FTP (as Linux will do), and that the initial stub installer has to erase the hard drive first and then download the OS from a main server as it is being installed.

If that's the case, then it should just be a matter of doing what has been done before.

If not... then it could take some time.

Of course, if Comcast electes to bring all of the regular features to their TiVo software, people won't want to modify it. That is assuming Comcast is listening to its customers, and that its customers are making their thoughts known.