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Oppo Digital DV-970HD FAQ / Brain dump - Page 8

post #211 of 6316
Let me see if I understand this:

970HD is NOT recommended for screens larger than 50 inches (poor deinterlacing and conversion)?

970HD is NOT recommended for playback of PAL format discs (no 2:2 cadence)?

Would this player then be recommended only for someone with a relatively small screen interested only in NTSC-format dvds, and for whom macroblocking is a bigger problem in their setup as compared to de-interlacing artifacts?

(I understand that many have touted this unit for use with external video scalers, but I thought that was wat the 970H - not HD - was for...?)
post #212 of 6316
Yes. If your main concern is macroblocking, and you have a small television unit, then you will want to use the DV-970HD.

The OPDV971H is designed for people who do not have external scalers, as the Faroudja chipset does all of the high end functionality which most scalers have. Additionally, mating the OPDV971H to an external scaler is not desirable, because the OPDV971H is already reproducing an altered (enhanced) video, which reduces the effectiveness of the external scaler.

There is no 970H.
post #213 of 6316
I think Oppo hit the nail on the head in regards to market needs/wants. There are two options for those of us with external scalers. Either drop $1000-$2000 on a good DVD Player with SDI out, or jump early into HD (with a limited selection of players and media) and forget SD DVD all together.

I feel a lot of us are looking for a product to tie us over. We don't want to spend a lot of money on a SD Player especially when there is light at the end of the tunnel in respect to HD. I'm hoping the next generation of HD players can foot the bill for both needs.

Oppo also addressed the issue where the internal scalers are better in some cases now then they can supply in a low cost DVD player. As long as it's passing a good unaltered source it should sell like hot cakes.

Jeff
post #214 of 6316
Thanks, Neuromancer! I had thought the "Oppo 970H" discussed in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=619439 was a different model!

ToneDefJeff, the Oppo 970HD does seem like the perfect low-cost solution for users such as yourself, except why would Oppo bother to incorporate 720p/1080i upconversion when this player is clearly aimed at the 480i -> external scaler market? Isn't that adding unnecessary costs and potential complications, particularly as this unit is not suitable for those of us looking for a good upscaling PAL/NTSC all-region player?

Perhaps I should be in the market for a good external scaler instead! I guess the lack of 2:2 cadence for PAL format discs has no impact in such a setup?
post #215 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Malloy View Post

Thanks, Neuromancer! I had thought the "Oppo 970H" discussed in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=619439 was a different model!

Nope. OPPO just added the "D" to the name when it went final.

Quote:


Perhaps I should be in the market for a good external scaler instead! I guess the lack of 2:2 cadence for PAL format discs has no impact in such a setup?

2:2 Cadence support will be handled by the external scaler, rather than the DVD player, so you will get proper 2:2 support.
post #216 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Yes. If your main concern is macroblocking, and you have a small television unit, then you will want to use the DV-970HD.

The OPDV971H is designed for people who do not have external scalers, as the Faroudja chipset does all of the high end functionality which most scalers have. Additionally, mating the OPDV971H to an external scaler is not desirable, because the OPDV971H is already reproducing an altered (enhanced) video, which reduces the effectiveness of the external scaler.

There is no 970H.


First, let me say thank you, Neuromancer, for your quick responses to everyone's questions.

Second, a few questions that I hope are specific enough: is macroblocking something I should be concerned with? I have only had my tv, a 56" Samsung HL-S5687W (2006 model, accepts 1080p) for a week now so I'm not sure ... I'm told it has Faroudja too ... And for what it's worth, the manual says that it accepts the following over HDMI: "480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p (EIA/CEA-861-B compliant)."

I'm looking for a high-quality, low-cost (under $300) solution for this TV until the high-def disc war has a winner, and Oppo gets such consistently high marks, so I believe my choice may come down to the 971 vs. the 970...any suggestions?
post #217 of 6316
Macroblocking is a huge concern with Rear Projection DLPs. Without proper calibration, the OPDV971H will not produce a good image on your Samsung, as you will get a lot of blotchiness. GSB (Gary) has some very good information in relation to macroblocking and how to calibrate your Samsung DLP. I would seriously check out the Macroblocking and Calibration Guides.

If you don't think you can do a good calibration, don't have the time to do a proper calibration, or just don't want to hastle with Service Menus, then I would definately go with the DV-970HD or competing product, as any of the Faroudja players will produce macroblocking errors.
post #218 of 6316
Quote:


The Oppo outputs YCbCr 4:4:4. Neither Kris Deering or Stacey Spears has made mention of this and if it makes any difference. Could this be why some have reported to still preferring the overall PQ from their SDI player??

Maybe. Both formats are output in 8bit and the 4:4:4 just has a full pixel's worth of data each synch (clock) period). Once the 4:2:0 is upsampled to 4:2:2 (the hard part, obviously) they probably just use the same blue and red info for each pixel once the upsampling from 4:2:0 is done. This is a guess. It's possible they could take info from adjacent sets of pixels and do some sort of averaging. But that's a fair amount of work for upsampling. One could probably argue that 4:2:2 better because is has less "made up" data that is being fed to the deinterlacer.

larry
post #219 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Macroblocking is a huge concern with Rear Projection DLPs. Without proper calibration, the OPDV971H will not produce a good image on your Samsung, as you will get a lot of blotchiness. GSB (Gary) has some very good information in relation to macroblocking and how to calibrate your Samsung DLP. I would seriously check out the Macroblocking and Calibration Guides.

If you don't think you can do a good calibration, don't have the time to do a proper calibration, or just don't want to hastle with Service Menus, then I would definately go with the DV-970HD or competing product, as any of the Faroudja players will produce macroblocking errors.

Thanks!

How would you rate the 970's upconverted output over HDMI compared to other similarly-priced, non-Faroudja's upconverting players? I will not be running it through a scaler, just straight to the TV ...
post #220 of 6316
It is very similar to the quality of the NS75H from Sony. I really havn't had the opportunity to test it with other units, as the NS75H was the only other unit (aside from the OPDV971H) I had the opportunity to test at the time.
post #221 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Macroblocking is a huge concern with Rear Projection DLPs. Without proper calibration, the OPDV971H will not produce a good image on your Samsung, as you will get a lot of blotchiness. GSB (Gary) has some very good information in relation to macroblocking and how to calibrate your Samsung DLP. I would seriously check out the Macroblocking and Calibration Guides.

If you don't think you can do a good calibration, don't have the time to do a proper calibration, or just don't want to hastle with Service Menus, then I would definately go with the DV-970HD or competing product, as any of the Faroudja players will produce macroblocking errors.

Would you even go with the DV-970HD in the PAL case? How bad is really the DV-970HD in PAL mode? I have a 46 Samsung Rear Projection DLP.

inomics
post #222 of 6316
The PAL to NTSC conversion of the 970HD is pretty decent. Unless, as Neuromancer said, you're using primarily PAL disks, it shouldn't be an issue.
post #223 of 6316
Thanks for this clarification. I asked, because I got the following anser from the oppo:

For European customers who will primarily be using the DVD player for
PAL playback, we would not recommend the DV970HD unless you have a good
external/internal scaler which will do 2:2 Cadence decoding. PAL
playback on the DV970HD is not as good as the OPDV971H.


I do not have any scalers!

inomics
post #224 of 6316
Does this upscale Divx/Xvid as well or only DVD? Specs arent clear.
post #225 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed View Post

Does this upscale Divx/Xvid as well or only DVD? Specs arent clear.

Yes, it upconverts DivX/Xvid files, but the benefit is minor at best.
post #226 of 6316
Quote:


The only known issue is CUE at 480i.

The 970 does not have CUE. Like all DVD players, it has ICP, but it is less severe on the 970 than others.
post #227 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by inomics View Post

Would you even go with the DV-970HD in the PAL case? How bad is really the DV-970HD in PAL mode? I have a 46 Samsung Rear Projection DLP.

inomics

I personally could not recommend the DV-970HD if your primary means of viewing is PAL material. Proper 2:2 Cadence support is paramount when you are talking about PAL DVD decoding. It would be like recommending a DVD player that does not support proper 3:2 pulldown in the US.

The picture will be good, but nowhere near as clean as the OPDV971H or other DVD player which supports proper 2:2 Cadence decoding. I would look at the following two pictues on the AVForums website pertaining to the Cambridge Audio DV89.
post #228 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Malloy View Post

ToneDefJeff, the Oppo 970HD does seem like the perfect low-cost solution for users such as yourself, except why would Oppo bother to incorporate 720p/1080i upconversion when this player is clearly aimed at the 480i -> external scaler market? Isn't that adding unnecessary costs and potential complications, particularly as this unit is not suitable for those of us looking for a good upscaling PAL/NTSC all-region player?

Rich, I don't think they incorporated as much as it was already in the chipset they had to use. I can't see Oppo making their own chips so they have to choose from what's available on the market. It likely was the best match for what they wanted to accomplish.
post #229 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by inomics View Post

Thanks for this clarification. I asked, because I got the following anser from the oppo:

For European customers who will primarily be using the DVD player for
PAL playback, we would not recommend the DV970HD unless you have a good
external/internal scaler which will do 2:2 Cadence decoding. PAL
playback on the DV970HD is not as good as the OPDV971H.


I do not have any scalers!

inomics

That pretty much says it all. If you have more than a few PAL disks, get something else. Just didn't want anyone to get the impression that it can't play PAL disks at all.
post #230 of 6316
I do not have any DVDs, neither PAL nor NTSC. All I have are DivX/Xvid disks. Does the same applies to DivX/Xvid format?

Thanks for the link to Cambridge Audio DV89!

inomics
post #231 of 6316
The same does not apply to DivX/XviD encodes, as they are not pre-dominated by cadences.
post #232 of 6316
Does this mean that playing DivX/Xvid disks on 970HD would cause no problems? Or, in other words, there will be no big difference between the 970HD and 971?

Sorry for my stupid question, but I do not know much about which encodes are pre-dominated by cadences and which are not pre-dominated by cadences.

thanks anyway!

inomics
post #233 of 6316
I just checked the status on my order for the 970HD; it's on back-order. Lame. One of my biggest pet peeves is when a web site advertises a product for sale with no indication that they're out of stock but still allows you to go through with the transaction. The status page doesn't even give any timeframe as to when the unit will ship; I guess I'm expected to just forget I ordered it and be pleasantly surprised when it shows up at my house in a month or two.
post #234 of 6316
Actually, if you go to the purchase and product page, there is a disclaimer on the side of the page which states:

Availability: Back Order - Estimated ship date: Mid June.

Additionally, OPPO sends out an e-mail when your unit actually ships, so it will not "unexpectently" arrive at its destination.
post #235 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by inomics View Post

Does this mean that playing DivX/Xvid disks on 970HD would cause no problems? Or, in other words, there will be no big difference between the 970HD and 971?

Sorry for my stupid question, but I do not know much about which encodes are pre-dominated by cadences and which are not pre-dominated by cadences.

thanks anyway!

inomics

In respect to DivX playback, there is no difference between their ability to decode DivX/XviD files.
post #236 of 6316
I read this on another thread. Does this imply that the scaler used in the 970HD is indeed only handling 8 bits, whereas the 971 Genesis/Faroudja chipset in the 971H is a 10 bit affair? If this is the case, the 971 should be the better machine if you want to use the player's inbuilt scaling.

Dear All,
Notice on the new 970
Just to update the debate and
Direct from oppo tech support yesterday:

The design engineers told us that the video format used by DV-970HD between the decoder and the scaler chip is BT.601 instead of BT.656.
For this reason alone the existing SDI mod cards may not work unless they can take the BT.601 format, which is 8-bit instead of the 10-bit BT.656. If so, whether the timing will work with other equipment is totally unknown at this moment. Besides, the DV-970HD has no easy connector like the
OPDV971 has for connecting the SDI card.
post #237 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

The 970 does not have CUE. Like all DVD players, it has ICP, but it is less severe on the 970 than others.

Ahh, ok, I thought it was CUE. I see the jaggy lines on the red triangle in the Snell and Wilcox pattern and I know it's one or the other. Is there an easy way to tell the difference?

larry
post #238 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by escon View Post

I read this on another thread. Does this imply that the scaler used in the 970HD is indeed only handling 8 bits, whereas the 971 Genesis/Faroudja chipset in the 971H is a 10 bit affair? If this is the case, the 971 should be the better machine if you want to use the player's inbuilt scaling.

SDI modifications modify the decoding chipset, not the chipset which does all the upscaling and final video reproduction. The MTK chipset in the OPDV971H uses a BT.656 configuration, which uses a 10-bit bandwidth, while BT.601 is only 8-bit. However, the OPDV971H is imited to 8-bit as a final bandwidth, as the DVI output is only rated at 8-bit.

The DV-970HD also uses 8-bit.

As far as I know, there is no commercial television which supports true 10/12-bit decoding through HDMI (despite their specifications saying so). Don't know about video processors, though.
post #239 of 6316
I noticed that Oppo recommends the 970 for large screen TVs with a very good scaler. Would the SXRDs have good enough scalers?
post #240 of 6316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

SDI modifications modify the decoding chipset, not the chipset which does all the upscaling and final video reproduction. The MTK chipset in the OPDV971H uses a BT.656 configuration, which uses a 10-bit bandwidth, while BT.601 is only 8-bit. However, the OPDV971H is imited to 8-bit as a final bandwidth, as the DVI output is only rated at 8-bit.

The DV-970HD also uses 8-bit.

As far as I know, there is no commercial television which supports true 10/12-bit decoding through HDMI (despite their specifications saying so). Don't know about video processors, though.

So, does this mean that SDI (on the 971H) will give you 10 bits, whereas the 970HD gives out only 8 bits over HDMI? (and 8 bits over DVI on the 971H). I tend to believe that as I do see more subtle detail when I compare DVI and SDI in my modded 971H. Typically seen when you have very light reflections on glass windows.
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