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Hi-Vi MTM (or TMM) project

post #1 of 148
6/4/06 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
Hey,
Just wondering how these drivers would compare with the Dayton RS line of drivers in quality? Pricing is close so it is pretty much a toss-up. The color of hi-vi's drivers is intriguing however, also different than your typical Dayton RS project...Any thoughts?

These http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=297-441&DID=7
are the bass drivers I had in mind. I have no idea what tweeter to use as of yet. Any suggestions would be much appreciated! I am aiming for a 40hz tune to elimininate need for a sub
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post #2 of 148
6/5/06 at 1:43pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, read through a little bit of the Modula MTM design thread over at HT guide and to say im lost would be an understatement For a first crack at this, maybe the Modula MT would better match my skill-level. I do have 1 question however, I can't find the SD spec for the Dayton RS180s-8 7" driver, does anyone know what it is or where I could find this?

I have Two Dayton DA175 7" drivers sitting here screaming "blast me!".

Single driver tuned to 40hz in a ~.82cu.ft. enclosure, things are looking good so far.
Here is in a .50cu.ft enclosure. It gets rid of the the peak around 45hz.
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post #3 of 148
6/5/06 at 3:10pm
Thread Starter 
Tuned to 50hz in a 14L enclosure


What would be the more musical choice of these graphs posted above?

Edit: I am noticing that this driver has a relatively low sensitivity. Does the sensitivity of the bass driver itself ultimately tell us the sensitivy of the entire system?

Edit: Question answered.
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post #4 of 148
6/7/06 at 7:41pm
Thread Starter 
Okay. I've decided to go with the Natalie P's tuned to 40hz w/ dayton RS28A tweeter. I'll post back with some progress.
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post #5 of 148
6/7/06 at 8:26pm
Good call on the Natalie Ps. I have heard great things.

I built a pair of the MTs myself and have been very pleased.

Why the 40Hz tuning though?
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post #6 of 148
6/8/06 at 5:09am
Thread Starter 
Well mostly to keep as much clean bass in the mains as possible for a lower crossover point, and if I do decide to use a sub it'd be crossed over low enough as not to be localized.
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post #7 of 148
6/8/06 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocer View Post

Well mostly to keep as much clean bass in the mains as possible for a lower crossover point, and if I do decide to use a sub it'd be crossed over low enough as not to be localized.

Righto.
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post #8 of 148
6/8/06 at 8:40pm
Thread Starter 
WillD...were infering that I should go with an even lower tune than 40hz? I am open for options. Haven't started building yet.
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post #9 of 148
6/8/06 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocer View Post

WillD...were infering that I should go with an even lower tune than 40hz? I am open for options. Haven't started building yet.

Well, sort-of. Seeing as it is DIY, it is entirely up to you (as it should be).

However, the design at HTguide is a good one (has them tuned to 32Hz in the PE box). My MTs (a single 7" driver) played well into the 30s, with pretty clean bass.

The Natalie Ps are designed to be accurate, so the bass shouldn't be boomy or loose at all.
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post #10 of 148
6/9/06 at 6:05am
Thread Starter 
Definitely wasn't aware of this driver's bass capability (haven't modeled it in unibox yet) which is why I never considered a tune as low as 32hz. If you're getting into the 30's with an MT (Modula MT?), clean and accurately, I am very impressed. Thanks a lot for that bit of info much appreciated.
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post #11 of 148
6/9/06 at 7:38am
Quote:


If you're getting into the 30's with an MT (Modula MT?), clean and accurately, I am very impressed.

A local builder needed a bit of help with his crossovers so he brought his Modula TMs over for me to diagnose. This was my first experience with them and I was quite impressed with the low frequency output.
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post #12 of 148
6/9/06 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocer View Post

Definitely wasn't aware of this driver's bass capability (haven't modeled it in unibox yet) which is why I never considered a tune as low as 32hz. If you're getting into the 30's with an MT (Modula MT?), clean and accurately, I am very impressed. Thanks a lot for that bit of info much appreciated.

Neither was I, till I fired them up with some hip-hop.

Very impressive bass for a single 7" driver (Yep, the Modula MT)

Jon did a most excellent job with the design (as expected).
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post #13 of 148
6/12/06 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas-W View Post

A local builder needed a bit of help with his crossovers so he brought his Modula TMs over for me to diagnose. This was my first experience with them and I was quite impressed with the low frequency output.

That makes me smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

Neither was I, till I fired them up with some hip-hop.

Very impressive bass for a single 7" driver (Yep, the Modula MT)

Jon did a most excellent job with the design (as expected).

I mean, from what i've read the only advantage to the MTM designs is added sensitivity, so I guess i'll expect some hefty bass.

Here is my goal based on your suggestions Will
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post #14 of 148
6/13/06 at 9:23pm
Thread Starter 
Rough X-over sketch


Putting things this way should help me during the actual install :P
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post #15 of 148
6/13/06 at 9:37pm
When do you begin?
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post #16 of 148
6/13/06 at 10:29pm
Thread Starter 
As soon as I can get my hands on some Masonite or Pegboard to mount the electronics on
I haven't received the BOM yet either. It should be arriving this week some time. I'll have to wait until my next paycheck to order the drivers. At this point all I need are the enclosures and drivers. Ports are ordered along with binding posts...Things are going along smoothly now. Thanks again for suggesting the lower tuning BTW
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post #17 of 148
6/14/06 at 12:45am
No problem.
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post #18 of 148
6/14/06 at 11:41am
Thread Starter 
Here it is

and here is what the crossovers will look like

Haven't decided yet between pegboard or masonite. Also haven't decided if I should put down the cash for a glue gun to mount the electronics.

I'll only use the DA175's to test the crossover after all is soldered (if I don't have the Rs180's by then)
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post #19 of 148
6/14/06 at 1:45pm
glue gun might not be the best option . its possible for the components to get hot enough to melt hot glue (not all that hard) what might be a good option is to use a small dab of hot glue to get everything layed out then use a 2 part epoxy to permanently secure the components. or you could do solder it to a circuit board and make your own circuit boards.

thats a lot of work though, i would say some good 5 min epoxy on some hard board or peg board and you will be set.
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post #20 of 148
6/14/06 at 2:49pm
Thread Starter 
Cr-Gor, Thanks for your input. This seems to be a much safer route.
So, i'll glue everything down after everything is wired and tested properly I assume?
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post #21 of 148
6/14/06 at 3:11pm
you might wanna lay it out with hot glue first cause some epoxies (the ones i would recommend) set VERY strong so removal will be problematic. i have never built a crossover but i build stuff all the time and when i get around to building my own thats how i will do it.

on a side note hot glue guns are good to have but even the heat of the sun inside of your car can make it not hold anymore so its limited in strength when heat is involved
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post #22 of 148
6/14/06 at 3:38pm
I've used hot glue to build crossovers for more than 20 yrs and never damaged a component with the heat.

Use the completely clear hot glue it has the lowest melting point. If you need to replace a component it will peel-off most surfaces.

You should be able to find a glue gun locally for $10-$15

If you use epoxy and for some reason need to replace a component you're screwed.
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post #23 of 148
6/14/06 at 3:47pm
i think you misunderstood or i misstated. what i meant was heat from the inductors and resistors specifically can possilbly create enough heat to melt the hot glue after being installed, and then you have components moving around on you. it may be a non issue for all but the most extreme crossovers but i was just bringing it up to make him aware.
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post #24 of 148
6/14/06 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas-W View Post

I've used hot glue to build crossovers for more than 20 yrs and never damaged a component with the heat.

Use the completely clear hot glue it has the lowest melting point. If you need to replace a component it will peel-off most surfaces.

You should be able to find a glue gun locally for $10-$15

If you use epoxy and for some reason need to replace a component you're screwed.

I used it on my build too. It works well.

Cy-Gor: Even low-temp hot glue needs 260°F to melt. If your xover components get that warm..well...something is wrong.

Hell..I accidentaly burned one of my resisitors with the soldering iron. It is sitll working great though.
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post #25 of 148
6/14/06 at 5:15pm
well i am speaking from experience. i had hard wired my radar detector in my car and the mute button is seperate from the detector and it was hotglued to the underside of my dash and after a hot day in texas i was no longer attached, it wasnt melted it just didnt hold any more and that is a lot lighter than some of the inductors that are going to be used so i would say go with epoxy. thats just me.
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post #26 of 148
6/14/06 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cy-Gor View Post

well i am speaking from experience. i had hard wired my radar detector in my car and the mute button is seperate from the detector and it was hotglued to the underside of my dash and after a hot day in texas i was no longer attached, it wasnt melted it just didnt hold any more and that is a lot lighter than some of the inductors that are going to be used so i would say go with epoxy. thats just me.

Ahhh. Well I understand that.

But the dash in a car on a hot day in texas != interior of speaker cabinet in a climate controlled home.
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post #27 of 148
6/14/06 at 8:27pm
Thread Starter 
Well thanks for that debate, I think it is safe to go with Thomas's suggestion of the glue gun as I'd like to be able to upgrade some capacitors down the road. Another thing. I have no idea where the positive and negative wires comming from the amp enter the circuit. It looks like they both connect to the C1 cap from this schematic http://audioworx.virtualave.net/NataliePSchm.jpg
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post #28 of 148
6/14/06 at 8:34pm
The positive connection enters the circuit where you see "Generator 1".

The negative connection is where R3 and L2 connect.
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post #29 of 148
6/14/06 at 8:35pm
Thread Starter 
Ahhhhhhh, thanks a lot.
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post #30 of 148
6/14/06 at 8:36pm
No problem. I remember what it was like staring that a diagram just like that one..and trying to make sense of it all.

Fun times. Its a great learning experience. Enjoy it. =)
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