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Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 578

post #17311 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

I want something that doesn't require me to interact with it via software on my Mac. A UPnP server is OK to service streaming files, but I want the interface to be either on the hardware itself or via an iOS app I can run on my iPhone/iPad. Right now I have a MacBook Pro that I use, but later I will get a Mac Mini which will be in the listening room, thus taking my office computer out of the equation completely. At that point I want to stream audio -- via UPnP -- from the Mini in my listening room to the system in my office. I may have to give in and get the Stream Magic 6 or something similar.
In any case, I'm going to pass on the Logitech. I don't want to throw money at a device that's obsolete before I even order it.

Let me know what you end up with; I might have to see if it's worth considering myself.
post #17312 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Let me know what you end up with; I might have to see if it's worth considering myself.

I threw in the towel and ordered a Squeezebox Touch. It really bothers me that it uses proprietary software and Logitech has discontinued the product. I figure I'll be able to use it until the next version of OS X comes around in a year or so, and then I might be screwed when I update to that. So I'm taking that risk.
post #17313 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

You lost me there. smile.gif We went from mega buck turntables to bombs. confused.gif

The assumption is that a company develops a product and it cost more because of the reseach, the technology, we're equating technology to dollars. Technology gave us the bomb, my point is that we spend millions on technology and forget about the interrelationship to our fellow man which basically hasn't changed since the stone age. In effect what is our technology giving us? Social amenities? I'm drawing a juxtaposition.

Sorry for the off topic, I'll stick to speakers and technology.

Rob
post #17314 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by robaroni View Post

The assumption is that a company develops a product and it cost more because of the reseach, the technology, we're equating technology to dollars. Technology gave us the bomb, my point is that we spend millions on technology and forget about the interrelationship to our fellow man which basically hasn't changed since the stone age. In effect what is our technology giving us? Social amenities? I'm drawing a juxtaposition.
Sorry for the off topic, I'll stick to speakers and technology.
Rob

You're waxing philosophical. I was just talking about playing records. smile.gif
post #17315 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

You're waxing philosophical. I was just talking about playing records. smile.gif

Mea culpa!
post #17316 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

I threw in the towel and ordered a Squeezebox Touch. It really bothers me that it uses proprietary software and Logitech has discontinued the product. I figure I'll be able to use it until the next version of OS X comes around in a year or so, and then I might be screwed when I update to that. So I'm taking that risk.

Well, look at it this way...it's not a risky as racing sportbikes!
post #17317 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

I threw in the towel and ordered a Squeezebox Touch. It really bothers me that it uses proprietary software and Logitech has discontinued the product. I figure I'll be able to use it until the next version of OS X comes around in a year or so, and then I might be screwed when I update to that. So I'm taking that risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post

Well, look at it this way...it's not a risky as racing sportbikes!

Dean, I think you'll be fine; at least in the short run. I don't know that much about it, because I've never roamed the SB forums that much...and this all happened just fairly recently; but again...the bits and pieces that I'm hearing, the firmware is fully mature, and I've even read rumors that while it's being discontinued, that doesn't necessarily mean that updates will cease to exist.

You say "proprietary", and of course it is; but I'm not sure how you mean, as opposed to what? What streaming device doesn't have firmware, that's "proprietary" to the company that wrote it? It's not closed, if that's what you mean; and I'm just spit-balling here...but I suspect the product will live on, in some form. Either Logitech will port it to the "UE" platform, re-launch it somehow; or...as I'm hoping...they'll sell it. While the SB hasn't exactly languished under Logitech, many wonder what would have become of it...if Slim Devices had remained at the helm.

In any case...I think the discontinuation, might actually lead to increased demand for the units; so...if your experiment doesn't work out, for whatever reason...you might actually be able to sell without any loss whatsoever. On a personal note; I'll be very curious, to see you compare/contrast it with whatever comes next for you. I've toyed with a MacMini platform for a long while...as my wife has one, and all I need do is upgrade her to an iMac and it's mine for the taking (not that she hardly uses the damn thing anymore, thanks to her iPad).

Dean, when you get your SBT...I'd suggest 2 things. One, check out some of the mods and tweaks listed here http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html (this is v3.0 from Klaus). Some of them are pretty "technical", but you can always hit the reset button. At the very least, you'll want to turn off the display (if you're controlling remotely) and volume (or is fixed not an option in your Office system?). Two...take advantage of Internet Radio! IMO, it's what SB does best (at least, as best I can tell)...and for music lovers, it can be a true windfall.
post #17318 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Dean, I think you'll be fine; at least in the short run. I don't know that much about it, because I've never roamed the SB forums that much...and this all happened just fairly recently; but again...the bits and pieces that I'm hearing, the firmware is fully mature, and I've even read rumors that while it's being discontinued, that doesn't necessarily mean that updates will cease to exist.
You say "proprietary", and of course it is; but I'm not sure how you mean, as opposed to what? What streaming device doesn't have firmware, that's "proprietary" to the company that wrote it? It's not closed, if that's what you mean; and I'm just spit-balling here...but I suspect the product will live on, in some form. Either Logitech will port it to the "UE" platform, re-launch it somehow; or...as I'm hoping...they'll sell it. While the SB hasn't exactly languished under Logitech, many wonder what would have become of it...if Slim Devices had remained at the helm.
In any case...I think the discontinuation, might actually lead to increased demand for the units; so...if your experiment doesn't work out, for whatever reason...you might actually be able to sell without any loss whatsoever. On a personal note; I'll be very curious, to see you compare/contrast it with whatever comes next for you. I've toyed with a MacMini platform for a long while...as my wife has one, and all I need do is upgrade her to an iMac and it's mine for the taking (not that she hardly uses the damn thing anymore, thanks to her iPad).
Dean, when you get your SBT...I'd suggest 2 things. One, check out some of the mods and tweaks listed here http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html (this is v3.0 from Klaus). Some of them are pretty "technical", but you can always hit the reset button. At the very least, you'll want to turn off the display (if you're controlling remotely) and volume (or is fixed not an option in your Office system?). Two...take advantage of Internet Radio! IMO, it's what SB does best (at least, as best I can tell)...and for music lovers, it can be a true windfall.

What I mean by proprietary has nothing to do with the firmware. I'm talking about the software it needs on the computer to serve content. The SBT uses it's own -- proprietary server software -- as opposed to standards like UPnP (an open standard that anyone can implement). I already have a UPnP server (Playback) running for serving content to my Naim network streamer. I'm bothered by the fact that I have to install Logitech's own -- proprietary software. That it's mature is irrelevant. It can break with subsequent OS changes, and Logitech may choose to abandon support entirely on a whim, and it won't surprise me if they do. When I buy hardware, I don't want to be dependent on the vendor to continue providing client software to keep it working. I don't have to worry about that with my Naim. They provide firmware updates, yes for hardware updates/improvements, but the server software required is just any UPnP compliant server you want to use.

As for my plans for a Mac Mini, I don't intend to use it as a source component (i.e. connecting its digital out to my DAC). I intend to use it as a headless server for serving digital content over ethernet/wireless to my Naim, SBT, and Apple TV. I know a lot of people use it like a component, with Channel D's Pure Music, but that's not what I want to do (and I tried Pure Music -- I think it's a hack on top of iTunes, flakey, and will probably break too easily with OS and iTunes updates).

Thanks for the suggestions and the link. I already use internet radio with my Naim and enjoy it (there is a great Baroque radio station in the Netherlands I listen to a lot). I cannot disable the volume control. My SBT will go straight into an Arcam Alpha 9P power amp, driving my Audience 52SEs.

I probably won't even see my SBT until the week of the 22nd. I bought it from B&H and they don't even reopen until Wednesday, and I'll be in the Atlanta area the following week.
post #17319 of 21649
post #17320 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post

Guys vote for the c4!
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/10/09/reference-loudspeakers/
Hey I'm from Chicago - I voted more than once biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Vote early and often is the Chicago way biggrin.gif
post #17321 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post

Guys vote for the c4!
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/10/09/reference-loudspeakers/

I know this is going to sound a little "holier than thou"...but I've never heard ANY of those other speakers; not the TAD Compact Reference CR-1, nor the Joseph Audio Pearl 2, Rockport Avior, Wilson Audio Sascha, Marten Designs Bird 2, Sony SS-AR1, Tannoy Westminster Royal SE, Genesis Audio 5.3, Sonus Faber Amati Futura, or Magico S5. Hell...truth be told, I haven't heard the Dynaudio Confidence C-4 II.

IMO...to vote for the Dynaudio, just because we own Dynaudio; is being a bit of a "fan-boy", yes? Until I've heard all those models...how can I say which is best?

Where's that :stirthepot: emoticon when you need it? tongue.gif
post #17322 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

I know this is going to sound a little "holier than thou"...but I've never heard ANY of those other speakers; not the TAD Compact Reference CR-1, nor the Joseph Audio Pearl 2, Rockport Avior, Wilson Audio Sascha, Marten Designs Bird 2, Sony SS-AR1, Tannoy Westminster Royal SE, Genesis Audio 5.3, Sonus Faber Amati Futura, or Magico S5. Hell...truth be told, I haven't heard the Dynaudio Confidence C-4 II.
IMO...to vote for the Dynaudio, just because we own Dynaudio; is being a bit of a "fan-boy", yes? Until I've heard all those models...how can I say which is best?
Where's that :stirthepot: emoticon when you need it? tongue.gif

You're more of a curmudgeon than I am. tongue.gif
post #17323 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

You're more of a curmudgeon than I am. tongue.gif

LOL; not by a long-shot. I've never seen a Vinyl guy, wring their hands over a streamer so much. tongue.gif

Seriously though...I just hate that "fan-boy" mentality; and we get accused of it plenty in here. Because I'm a fan of Dynaudio, doesn't mean I think it is right for everyone, every situation, or that it slays all competition. If I were to blindly cast my vote...for speakers I've never heard of before; wouldn't that be the very definition of being this so-called fan-boy?

Of course others are free to do as they choose. I don't take my position that seriously, nor do I the other. wink.gif
post #17324 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

I know this is going to sound a little "holier than thou"...but I've never heard ANY of those other speakers; not the TAD Compact Reference CR-1, nor the Joseph Audio Pearl 2, Rockport Avior, Wilson Audio Sascha, Marten Designs Bird 2, Sony SS-AR1, Tannoy Westminster Royal SE, Genesis Audio 5.3, Sonus Faber Amati Futura, or Magico S5. Hell...truth be told, I haven't heard the Dynaudio Confidence C-4 II.
IMO...to vote for the Dynaudio, just because we own Dynaudio; is being a bit of a "fan-boy", yes? Until I've heard all those models...how can I say which is best?
Where's that :stirthepot: emoticon when you need it? tongue.gif

The man has a point...

I still voted for the C4 though. wink.gif

I wouldn't vote for the Magico or Wilson just because they are already darlings of the audio press. We don't need more coverage of those brands IMO.
post #17325 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

I know this is going to sound a little "holier than thou"...but I've never heard ANY of those other speakers; not the TAD Compact Reference CR-1, nor the Joseph Audio Pearl 2, Rockport Avior, Wilson Audio Sascha, Marten Designs Bird 2, Sony SS-AR1, Tannoy Westminster Royal SE, Genesis Audio 5.3, Sonus Faber Amati Futura, or Magico S5. Hell...truth be told, I haven't heard the Dynaudio Confidence C-4 II.
IMO...to vote for the Dynaudio, just because we own Dynaudio; is being a bit of a "fan-boy", yes? Until I've heard all those models...how can I say which is best?
Where's that :stirthepot: emoticon when you need it? tongue.gif

But I am a fanboy smile.gif unabashedly so but CD the poll wasn't about which was best but it was a poll to see which speaker gets reviewed biggrin.gif by Part-Time Audiophile as I gathered it.. My mistake actually I linked to the tabulated polls, if you saw the first page with the voting buttons the top portion said to vote for the speaker you wanted to read about on PTA. So vote for the C4 biggrin.gif
post #17326 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxwired View Post

The man has a point...
I still voted for the C4 though. wink.gif

LOL
post #17327 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

LOL; not by a long-shot. I've never seen a Vinyl guy, wring their hands over a streamer so much. tongue.gif
...

Speaking of that....my SBT will be here Monday.
post #17328 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Speaking of that....my SBT will be here Monday.

Good luck; PM me if you have any questions or comments.
post #17329 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Good luck; PM me if you have any questions or comments.

I probably won't get to it for a while. I am on vacation starting Tuesday.
post #17330 of 21649
Hey guys,
if anyone knows where I can find a 122c in Cherry or Black with a black face, I would be very interested...I am putting together a 5.1 set up and am on the hunt. I was going to go with Excites, but they just didn't "excite" me. Needless to say, I found a pair of 52s in AWESOME shape for a good price and now I need to find a center...Thanks for your time.
post #17331 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravingndrooling View Post

Hey guys,
if anyone knows where I can find a 122c in Cherry or Black with a black face, I would be very interested...I am putting together a 5.1 set up and am on the hunt. I was going to go with Excites, but they just didn't "excite" me. Needless to say, I found a pair of 52s in AWESOME shape for a good price and now I need to find a center...Thanks for your time.

ebay or audiogon
post #17332 of 21649
Selling some nice X12's in rosewood, item 190737966260 on ebay excite12.JPG 44k .JPG file excite4.JPG 32k .JPG file excite5.JPG 37k .JPG file
post #17333 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle454 View Post

Selling some nice X12's in rosewood, item 190737966260 on ebay excite12.JPG 44k .JPG file excite4.JPG 32k .JPG file excite5.JPG 37k .JPG file

Picture post failure!
post #17334 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Picture post failure!

here's a linkhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190737966260&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123
post #17335 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravingndrooling View Post

Hey guys,
if anyone knows where I can find a 122c in Cherry or Black with a black face, I would be very interested...I am putting together a 5.1 set up and am on the hunt. I was going to go with Excites, but they just didn't "excite" me. Needless to say, I found a pair of 52s in AWESOME shape for a good price and now I need to find a center...Thanks for your time.

Did the 122C ever come with a black face (I assume you are talking about the baffle or grills)? I have a 122C in Cherry (sorry, not for sale) and both baffle and grill are gray.

Anyway, great speaker. I love my Audience 5.1 setup, and my 52SE
post #17336 of 21649
Spent a few minutes this morning playing with speaker position and toe in. I've settled on slightly more toe in than I had before. They still aim at a point shortly behind my head, but now the speakers are aimed slightly more at my ears. I think it's an across the board improvement.

I take out the spikes when I'm adjusting. Then when I get it about right, I use a tape measure to ensure complete consistency between right and left speaker. Then the spikes go back in, Then I adjust the spikes to eliminate any wobble. Sounds good to me.
post #17337 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Did the 122C ever come with a black face (I assume you are talking about the baffle or grills)? I have a 122C in Cherry (sorry, not for sale) and both baffle and grill are gray.
Anyway, great speaker. I love my Audience 5.1 setup, and my 52SE

They did and I am. I found one with the silver face already....But considering I'm after a model that is no longer in production, I may just end up with a silver face...
post #17338 of 21649
haven't checked this thread in a while.

I'm resurrecting an old discussion (class D vs the rest) but I found some points inaccurate.
my previous speakers were Audience 52's. I used to own a DIY (but very well built) clone of the First Watt F4 (designed by Nelson Pass of Pass labs, sells for ~$2000 ready built). my main amp is a DIY class D implementation of the Hypex UCD180 modules (standard, not high grade or anything). with the Audiences the differences between the two were slim, if any. with the current speakers (Confidence 3's) the difference is night and day, the F4 being far inferior.
when comparing the two, the F4 sounded as if the bass was simply cut-off, the sound was weak, sound stage collapsed and they started sounding very forward.
I don't whink the F4 was a bad amp but it's clearly not for the C3's.

I have compared the class-D amp to a few other modestly priced (~$500) amps, where it failed had nothing to do with control but a certain shyness on mid-high frequencies, I clearly remember the percussion on a certain song being better defined with an A/B amp. that came at the price of a compressed sound stage depth. so in the end I think it's a matter of preference.

also, it should be noted that a few different commercial amps are based on ICE-Power modules from B&O (Jeff Rowland, Bel Canto etc) so a common sonic signature would not be a wonder.

last thing, designing and building a class-D amp requires skills very different from those required to build A and A/B amps. there is data suggesting that not every manufacturer making D-amps masters those skills (will not call names).
post #17339 of 21649
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

haven't checked this thread in a while.
I'm resurrecting an old discussion (class D vs the rest) but I found some points inaccurate.
my previous speakers were Audience 52's. I used to own a DIY (but very well built) clone of the First Watt F4 (designed by Nelson Pass of Pass labs, sells for ~$2000 ready built). my main amp is a DIY class D implementation of the Hypex UCD180 modules (standard, not high grade or anything). with the Audiences the differences between the two were slim, if any. with the current speakers (Confidence 3's) the difference is night and day, the F4 being far inferior.
when comparing the two, the F4 sounded as if the bass was simply cut-off, the sound was weak, sound stage collapsed and they started sounding very forward.
I don't whink the F4 was a bad amp but it's clearly not for the C3's.
I have compared the class-D amp to a few other modestly priced (~$500) amps, where it failed had nothing to do with control but a certain shyness on mid-high frequencies, I clearly remember the percussion on a certain song being better defined with an A/B amp. that came at the price of a compressed sound stage depth. so in the end I think it's a matter of preference.
also, it should be noted that a few different commercial amps are based on ICE-Power modules from B&O (Jeff Rowland, Bel Canto etc) so a common sonic signature would not be a wonder.
last thing, designing and building a class-D amp requires skills very different from those required to build A and A/B amps. there is data suggesting that not every manufacturer making D-amps masters those skills (will not call names).

Well don't tease. I understand your reluctance to "bad-mouth" a particular manufacture; but that's not exactly off-limits in these forums. I think it's always taken with a grain of salt, as it is just one man's opinion and all. But you sound like you know your way around the 'ole soldiering iron gn77b; so I'd like to know what you've heard about a particular implementation.

I'm still very curious about class-D. I tried a PS Audio model, back in the day...and can't say I was impressed. I was told by the dealer...who sold both...it was "better" than the Bel Canto I was considering. If I tried class-D today, it would almost certainly be one of the mono-block models from Wyred4Sound; or perhaps a Mola-Mola unit, utilizing the latest Hypex NCore...if they ever surface.

So, spill the beans gn77b; who have you heard, doesn't do a very good job of ICE implementation? Who does, in your view??
post #17340 of 21649
a few clarifications.

I wasn't talking about ICE-Power implementations. well, why not... Nu-Force received a few objective bad reviews. "objective" meaning that measurements revealed definite problems. I come from the camp that thinks that an amp which measures bad can't sound good, while a good measuring amp doesn't necessarily sound good. the said review is out there but I couldn't find it.
I also remember a Stereophile review of a Nu-Force CD player which had terrible jitter problems. Nu-Force fixed it, but still.
class D is such a different design exercise because it involves large, high frequency currents. a PCB trace can turn into a transmitter antenna any time if the designer doesn't know what he's doing. these problems simply don't exist with linear amps, hence my distrusts in some manufacturers.

it's important to note that I haven't listened to the said amp myself but there's an aura smelling of BS that surrounds this company. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually sounded good but I don't want to find that what I'm enjoying is actually noise.

more and more manufacturers jump the class-D ship. there are many to choose from and there are many important design differences, I wouldn't generalize. you'd be surprised that there's much disagreement among the different class-D designers.

that's not saying that given a limitless budged I'd go for class D. it IS a compromise. although I own it and use a class D amp and find the whole idea of PWM amplification very cool - they are small, don't require large heatsinks, an implementation using a switching supply can be very small (less money spent on cases, lower shipping costs because of size and weight). but yes, it still is a compromise. I'd take a good class A amp any day.

and there has been some definite progress in the last few years, there's the Hypex NCORE that has barely measurable distortion and I've read about people selling their Pass Labs and Accuphase amps to replace them with NCOREs. Jeff Rowland and Paul McGowan (of PS Audio) were impressed by its performance.

Theta already adopted it for use in one of its amps, there's the Mola-Mola (NCORE-based) etc. lot of stuff worth listening.
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